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When is it "enough" money?

I live in India and I am pretty poor, I hope to be middle-class/upper-middle class someday, but I have noticed something sinister from some people who are extremely privileged, they can be still be bought with money.

Lack of money makes you desperate, and paranoid, and comparison drives you crazy, hard to be morally perfect as a poor man, but I see actors who have made insane amounts of money on the backs of their Indian fans like Shahrukh Khan, Canada Kumar, Ajay Devgan, Hrithik Roshan and many more who are well-respected in the industry and who still can sell their own fans financial ruin (gambling) or death (Tobacco) in ads. I thought the point of being rich was that you could be more moral, what is the use of getting rich if you use your influence and fame to do more harm than good?

Also, all the actors mentioned above have made numerous movies about patriotism, many in their private conversations like to brag how much they “love their country… blah… blah… blah”, but yet they feel ok selling Tobacco to their fans who made them what they are.

I have a cousin who worships Shahrukh Khan and who took up Pan(Tobacco) because he was naive and because he probably thought it was “cool” since his favorite actor (on whom he has modeled all aspects of his life was selling tobacco), thankfully we were able to get him off that a few years ago, but he spent money like water and he gained worse health for it. He got off easy, many suffered financial ruin or even death. So, when is it fucking enough!? When will these people have enough money?

edit: It’s just not India, it happens everywhere (just watch CoffeeZilla to see more prime examples of this) Also, I am not saying I am perfect, if someone gave me an insane amount of money to sell Pan, I will, judge me if you will. But, I like to think if I had “enough” money, I would be immune to the attractions of blood money, I like to think I can try to be as moral as I can be then, but these people almost make me think that there is never “enough” money.

edit 2: Kurt Vonnegut’s Quote on Money is quite interesting

Appoxo ,
@Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

IMO: Not having to worry about money.
Bonus points if you could easily absorb being jobless for 1-2 years while not making any compromises.

corsicanguppy ,

IMO: Not having to worry about money.

‘enough’ is massively subjective. Not worrying about money is also very personal.

In America, where people need to sell their house for medical costs - even with a ‘good’ insurance plan - I don’t know any number would free me from worry.

Appoxo ,
@Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

That’s where the bonus points come in. Ability to easily absorb 1-2 years being jobless wirhout compromising in your living style.

dumblederp , (edited )
@dumblederp@aussie.zone avatar

You get to define your own sense of what “enough” money is. Many people will never have enough.

The philosopher Diogenes was sitting on a curbstone, eating bread and lentils for his supper. He was seen by the philosopher Aristippus, who lived comfortably by flattering the king. Said Aristippus, “If you would learn to be subservient to the king, you would not have to live on lentils.” Said Diogenes, “Learn to live on lentils, and you will not have to cultivate the king.”

I like to reference Maslows Hierarchy of needs for a different perspective of personal value.

https://aussie.zone/api/v3/image_proxy?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.simplypsychology.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fmaslow-needs3-1024x1024.jpg

intensely_human ,

I learned this the hard way for myself.

I’ve lived on the street defending myself against violence, and growing gnawingly more hungry every day, and dealing with sleep deprivation from always being moved along.

I’ve also been a senior software developer at a company that broke promises to me, and I smiled and ate that shit for the money and also to “grow up” and be less naive and idealistic. Also, I started breaking promises to them too.

When I lived on the street I was happy and whole, despite the discomfort. When I was working that dev job I went to the hospital twice with stress-related issues I thought were going to kill me, and separately, shelled out over $7k on neurofeedback training to reduce my beta wave amplitude and cut down on my panic attacks.

That learned me good. I am done sacrificing my integrity for any material comfort. It simply does not work. My body was suffering despite the cushy conditions around me. I was uncomfortable in my own skin, and not in a trivial way. I was fucking ill from that.

Long story short, I realized the reason to stand up and face the cavalry is that it hurts less to die fighting than it does to die running away.

RedditRefugee69 ,

There’s nothing wrong with the lesson here but this sounds fake. Those are the two most superficial stereotypes of class life with no explanation how you bridged that gap. There is a big jump in happiness when you no longer have to worry about making ends meet. From there, you just have to not get caught up in consumer envy.

But hey this is the internet so who knows

intensely_human ,

Well I’m sorry it sounds fake. Stories about my life often do because I have a weird combinaron of characteristics that lead to weird situations, leading to a density of adventures that most people find simply unbelievable.

Also, if it’s fake there’s definitely something wrong with the lesson. Nobody should be making shit up to teach lessons. Lessons need to come from the truth.

Jolteon ,

Yep, money can buy you the bottom tier and a half of that triangle. Everything above that is up to you.

9point6 ,

I’ve always liked the distinction between needing your job to survive and being okay if it disappeared for at least a few months

If you have enough to mean you can take your time to look for a good job if you ever lost your current one without having to change your lifestyle, that’s the minimum bound of “enough” IMO. Anything else involves compromise, so therefore is not “enough” by definition.

I’d say the idealised “enough” is when you can do whatever you decide to do without having to worry if you can afford it.

Both of these depend on the kind of lifestyle people lead and how much more they would do if they didn’t have to think about money. For some people that idealised “enough” is unachievable, because they’ve decided what they want to do is make more money.

People that end up chasing money for the sake of having more money will often do so in spite of any moral compass. And FWIW I don’t think there are a high percentage people out there that make “enough” by either of my definitions and that opens up all the exploitation that forces people into shitty jobs and situations they wouldn’t otherwise do

axzxc1236 ,

If I can suddenly in coma for a year, wake up and pay my bills, it’s enough.

fckreddit ,

I find celeb ads pretty disgusting. Watched ads for gambling apps? They almost always feature a celeb. All I can say is, we have to know that celebs will do whatever for more money. They don’t care about their audience. The onus is on us to not get influenced by them.

Flyberius ,
@Flyberius@hexbear.net avatar

I never liked Ray Winston, but seeing him in all the gambling ads in the UK made me want to car bomb him. A self-satisfied, wide-boy EastEnder conning working class people into wasting their money on an addiction. Fuck him, I hope he has a stroke

xilliah ,

I know someone who earns 10s of thousands of euros a month. His girlfriend, who has lived with him for many years, had to sell her bicycle to be able to afford something she really needed. He hasn’t ever given me the impression that he’s happy. Some people just are that way and our society enables their behavior.

LoreleiSankTheShip ,

Epicureanism teaches that you will never have enough money, enough fame, enough influence, so chasing after those will never make you happy. Instead, you should focus on fulfilling your needs and fixing problems in your life, getting enough to eat, enough sleep, surrounding yourself with friends and enjoying the small things in life. When you’re unburdened by needs, you reach long-lasting happiness.

So to me, that means earning enough to fulfill your needs is enough, especially if you don’t have to worry about losing your job any time soon

bjornsno ,

Oooh look at Epicure over here, just casually getting in his 8 hours of sleep. Brag more king.

On a serious note, the capitalists have commercialized all of this. Getting enough to eat might be doable with a meager income technically, but eating well and healthy is expensive. Getting a good bed in a nice living space that facilitates rest well costs a fortune. So you need two middle class plus jobs to afford it for yourself and your partner, which comes with its own set of stressors.

The small things in life are also actively commercialized. A coffee with friends? Better save up for the chain cafe prices. A movie night in? Remember to pay your Netflix subscription. A hike? Gotta pay for gas to get there, depending on where you live. I’m not saying it’s impossible to have small things for free/cheap, it’s just not that easy. There’s also going to be constant social pressure, through advertisement or influencers, first or secondhand, to do all the things they tell you will make you more happy. You’ll have to actively resist that, which in turn can cause you to become distanced from your social circle.

God forbid you get sick, the health insurance and pharmaceutical industry will fleece you and in some countries leave you with crippling debt, making all of the above out of reach for you.

All of this to say: money isn’t just something you have to chase after for the sake of it in our current society, it’s an absolute necessity to try to have more than what you think you actually need in the moment to get by and enjoy the small things. It might sound cliche, but “society is like stacked against us, man” is actually a completely true statement.

corsicanguppy ,

Epicureanism

Word nerds spell ‘lagom’ weird.

Wanangwa_Bamidele ,

Stop watching youtube, especially CoffeeZilla. Stop reading so much reddit, although you make the right choice to move over lemmy, do not over use Lemmy.

Spend more effort on training, studying and working for better job, better future.

What matter now for you, is not how fuck up the higher up. It is how you are comparing to those at your level. You can make more money than your peer if you better than them.

Azzu , (edited )

I think “enough” is when you don’t have to worry about water, food and shelter.

I have roughly enough to pay for these things, a little more, can get internet and a few euros each month for random luxury stuff.

I earned more before, but I reduced the hours in my job severely so I get to this money state. I like the reduced hours more than having more money.

So yeah for me, idk what everyone’s talking about, there’s definitely an “enough”. Of course, more is also “nice” but “enough” is when you survive with a little bit over.

Of course, like others say, for most people there is not an “enough”, they keep wanting more. It depends on the individuals. I have a bunch of friends who are friends because they think like me. But I can’t be friends with most of the population because they can’t get enough.

Famous people are mostly famous exactly because they can’t get enough. No one works that much, tries to acquire status that much, if they are satisfied eventually. Because when you would be satisfied, you stop chasing more fame, not getting to a level that we would call “famous”.

Taalnazi ,

I’d add access to medical health and physical safety.

Azzu ,

You’re absolutely right. I live in a country of socialized healthcare so it’s easy to forget how important it is.

Taalnazi ,

So do I. But unfortunately, even here, not all places offer actually decent LGBT+ safety and affirming healthcare. And as ally I think that that’s terrible.

NaibofTabr ,

So, when is it fucking enough!? When will these people have enough money?

It’s all about keeping score, see. When the best capitalist finally gets all the money, they win. And then we can all quit this game and do something else.

MacroCyclo ,

Everyone is here talking about how no money is enough and everyone is really greedy, but I’m not so sure. Have a look at modern philosophies around financial planning and you will find a TON of people living within their means and using their financial wealth to live closer to their values. The FIRE movement and “Finding and funding a good life” come to mind.

makingStuffForFun ,
@makingStuffForFun@lemmy.ml avatar

I have a work colleague that earns roughly three times my income, but is constantly crying poor and is in a lot of debt and has very little spare money. However, this person also has huge amounts of subscriptions, gets Uber Eats all the time and is purchasing luxury items that are just not required.

There is no frugality in this person’s life at all that I’m able to see though I’m not privy to the intricate details of their finances.

I think your point is spot on. If you’re earning even a modest amount of money for your countries standards, and you are frugal and you enjoy being frugal, but still giving yourself the things you like and enjoy, then you can probably live a quite a good life.

Of course, there are so many variables here. This is quite a blanket statement.

But still, with this person earning three times that I earn, I am living a very comfortable and carefree life in comparison.

HobbitFoot ,

It depends on the person.

I think they, for the majority of people, there is a rough number that could be derived from a standard of living they would want and not have to work. It isn’t a common number across people as people want different things.

That said, there are some people for whom there isn’t a number to satisfy them. Wealth becomes a high score to measure against others. For them, there is no good enough.

Strider ,

It never is. It’s the same everywhere too.

I once read on the Internet if you’re dependant on income you are poor. I think that is a perfect definition, because it removes the rivalry between all, well, slaves.

By money count I am possibly rich in direct comparison to you. Yet here I am, requiring income for my family and me to survive alone, additionally being bound by long term costs.

So it’s basically the same for all of us (albeit with different numbers and different conditions) except for a handful who can do what they want.

If you’re interested in details in my case hit me up by pm.

Hjalamanger ,
@Hjalamanger@feddit.nu avatar

People can be satisfied and have enough, but those people are generally not CEOs or famous actors. Read @Azzu comment for someone who thinks they have enough money

Strider ,

I don’t disagree but the odds are heavily stacked against this. The whole system is based on performing better and growth, driving this.

Hence even if you’re satisfied, it won’t be enough for long…

ThisIsAManWhoKnowsHowToGling ,
@ThisIsAManWhoKnowsHowToGling@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I think the only way to have “enough” money is to practice gratitude. Being poor is defined by stress, of course; I am not gonna tell you that your problems are all in your head. But when you get a better paying job, it’s easy to thoughtlessly spend more money and still end up feeling poor. So, don’t just excitedly spend all that money. Take a good look at what you appreciate about your current life and what you are proud of, and do what you need to cultivate these good things. Sometimes it is surprising how many of those things are free. Sometimes they need a bit of money to grow.

The other thing is that each time you cross a moral line, it gets easier to do so again. This is why i do not drink and will never drink. I think the same goes for accepting sponsorships from tobacco companies and other kinds of corruption. And of course being rich naturally shields you from the consequences of these decisions if you let it.

xavier666 ,

I consider myself rich. This is how i have quantified it

  • Rich enough to avail public transport
  • Rich enough to eat home-cooked meals (enough time to purchase the items as well)
  • Rich enough to spend time on the gym to improve my health
  • Rich enough to spend time on my hobbies (gaming)
  • Rich enough to have spare time to spend with my loved ones
  • Rich enough to afford a nationalized healthcare plan
  • Rich enough to plan a investment technique so that I can retire peacefully

I am extremely privileged. Sometimes I wonder if I even deserve it. I don’t think i will require any more money at this point. But people around me will call me middle-class because i’m not hustling enough. I don’t care to be honest; i’m at peace.

theshatterstone54 ,

My standards are a bit lower than yours (I don’t mind public transport because it’s good enough for my needs) but other than that, I am now realising how privileged I am. By standard social definitions, I’m a broke student, but looking at it from this point of view, I’m one of the richest people I know.

xavier666 ,

By standard social definitions, I’m a broke student

This, i believe, is one of the biggest faults of society/social media which is not discussed enough. We are always chasing an unreachable goal of success which makes us constantly depressed.

I don’t mind public transport because it’s good enough for my needs

I mostly use public transport other than scenarios where it’s just not feasible (catching a flight at 6-7 am). What I meant to say is that I am fortunate enough to be in an area which has good public transport.

Mothra ,
@Mothra@mander.xyz avatar

There isn’t an “enough” threshold. It depends from person to person, basically, if you can do something and you get paid for that, then you do it. It’s even easier to accept doing it if whatever you need to do is easy for you.

So in the case of an actor, “we’ll pay you a ton of money to sell tobacco and gambling” can be very tempting because it’s easy for them. Also it gives them more exposure and fame, and you may think they already have enough but no. If they don’t take it someone else will and they will no longer be top N.1.

Sorry kid but people don’t make money to increase their moral understanding. They make money to afford living a certain lifestyle. For most people, it’s just covering basic needs. Maybe to help their families do the same. But for those who already have all that covered it’s just to gain more, and you are right it’s really sad they don’t care how. They should care.

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