In the US, did Amazon kill the mall, is everyone too broke, or a combination of other factors?

rem26_art , 3 days ago (edited 3 days ago)

This is anecdotal to me, but I remember going to the mall a whole lot as a kid cuz my mom liked shopping at the stores there. Nowadays, she still shops at the same stores, but usually through their own websites. For me, when I learned how to drive and could go to the mall myself, it was probably only to go to a place like Gamestop, since the one in the mall was the closest to me. Again, online shopping, and especially being able to download games through like, Xbox Live, the eShop (and Steam, but I wasn't really into PC gaming until much more recently) was much more convenient than having to drive 20-30 minutes to the mall.

EDIT: Another thing I remembered is that a Target opened up closer to where I lived, so it just became more convenient to shop there for stuff like cheap clothes vs brand name places like H&M. They also sold stuff you couldn't buy at the mall like groceries, so it was more enticing, i guess.

Recently I went back to the mall I grew up around and it was a lot more empty. One of the really big stores that was there when I was a kid was Sears and they're gone now, and that mall had a TON of space dedicated to Sears. No one has come to lease that space. The mall has a sprawling parking lot that's mostly empty now.

I remember as a kid there were always like, crazy extravagant displays at the mall around the Holiday Season, and things like raffles where you could win a new car or something, but I don't think any of that has happened there in recent years to nearly the same scale.

I wouldn't say this mall is completely dead yet (I visited a different mall that had like, maybe 5 stores open and a lot of converted office space in it on a Saturday afternoon and that was eerie and dead while still being open to the public), but I think its on its way out.

SpeedLimit55 , 3 days ago

I only go to the mall for Dicks sporting goods or Apple which both have their own entrances. Have not walked inside the mall or any other stores in years.

Maeve , 3 days ago

In addition to the other replies, items there were just too expensive. Now, items are too expensive without the mall, and it's not to do with regular/mid-low level management, supply chain costs, but due to price gouging, in order to pay executive, board, and and other major share holders/investors. (See the Economic Policy Institute reports on this, for more info).

sunzu , 3 days ago

Urban malls seem to be doing mostly fine. Its mostly suburban once that are flopping. Selection is trash

someguy3 , 3 days ago (edited 3 days ago)

What killed the mall:

• It was an experiment on the 3rd place (read up on it) and it failed at that.
• Big box retailers wanted big, huge, gigantic stores. So they left malls to open them.
• Being surrounded by parking structures doesn’t look appealing.
• High rent for mall space.
• Amazon.
• *Other entertainment options are much better now with streaming tv, video games, etc.

QuarterSwede , 3 days ago

Big box retailers want to own the property they’re on. Most of the time they own the property any other shops are in even in their lot. Big box has a huge realty presence. They out malled the malls in this regard.

treadful , 3 days ago

Being a 3rd place you can’t even walk to because you have to cross those huge parking lots and all the traffic they bring. Not to mention none of them had decent places to actually collect and hang out.

lordnikon , 3 days ago

also a big thing was the rapid openings of malls in the 80s and 90s. honestly they opened too many of them then just kind of limped along as it was too hard to close and Sears kinda funded them till their death.

VirtualOdour , 3 days ago

Also people getting used to group chat and online games with friends, being able to socialize more effectively made activities like the mall pointless.

That’s why when you go to places where people used to hang out to socialise most people are just on their phones, the phone is better.

unknowing8343 , 3 days ago

I sincerely hope that you don’t think that group chats, online gaming, or phones are “better” than true social life, because there is overwhelming science indicating that those things are making people absolutely miserable… and we actually don’t need science to see it everyday.

otp , 3 days ago

You’re right. At the same time, there are now alternatives that generally don’t require being in places that are trying to get you to spend money just to interact with other people.

davel , 4 days ago

The rise of the suburban mall and its downward spiral are pre-Amazon, and largely had to do with tax decisions and costs to the public sector, though online shopping did accelerate the collapse. Slate, 2017: The Retail Apocalypse Is Suburban

jordanlund , 4 days ago

Malls were being killed by big box complexes before Amazon was prevalent, but the one-two punch didn’t do them any favors.

I see it as a combination of things…

Big box retailers.
Online sales.
People stopped going to movie theaters.

So what’s the reason to go to a mall? Crappy food court food?

Chozo , 3 days ago

So what's the reason to go to a mall? Crappy food court food?

The last dozen or so times I've been to a mall, the only thing I've spent money on was food. It's hard to justify spending money at the mall when I know I can get just about anything there from an online retailer for a lot cheaper. But I can't get an Orange Julius online. Yet.

halcyoncmdr , 3 days ago

But I can’t get an Orange Julius online.

Uber Eats, Door Dash, Grubhub, etc. all exist for this exact type of purchase.

Although you will pay for the convenience, as opposed to it being cheaper like most other products since the physical store is still involved.

fiercekitten , 3 days ago

Yep, when you want your Orange Julius to cost $22

Zahille7 , 3 days ago

There’s a fuckin delicious Asian place in my local mall that has the best teriyaki chicken and fried rice I’ve ever had. That and Charley’s lemonade are a couple of the only reasons I go to my mall.

HUMAN_TRASH , 3 days ago

By charleys you mean the Philly cheesesteak place right? Love them, too bad there aren’t any near me

Zahille7 , 3 days ago

That’s the one. They also go by a different name in some other parts of the country, I think. I don’t remember what it is though.

HUMAN_TRASH , 3 days ago

There’s one about 45min away, just to far to justify, but maybe I’ll make it out there sometime

jordanlund , 3 days ago

Take a Brazilian Lemonade recipe and sub in oranges. :) Make it at home.

houseofnasheats.com/brazilian-lemonade-limeade/

Chozo , 3 days ago

Oohhh, that sounds delicious! My old boss at work was telling me about Brazilian lemonades a while back and I've been meaning to try it at some point.

kinttach , 3 days ago

Apparently there’s a recipe on that page. Here’s the same page without the crud: www.justtherecipe.com/?url=https://houseofnasheat…

Blizzard , 3 days ago

Great website.

Instigate , 3 days ago

Out of curiosity; where are your grocery stores, pharmacies and post offices? Because here in Australia, most of them are in shopping centres (Aussie for ‘mall’). The vast majority of us go to do our weekly shop, grab medication, send back returns from our online shopping etc. so they’re still very much alive and well.

evasive_chimpanzee , 3 days ago

In America, there’s like 3 different things you could call a mall. When most people talk about them, it means a giant building with central indoor paths connecting a bunch of businesses. Typically, there would be a handful of “anchor” businesses, like department stores and a movie theater, and then space for a bunch of much smaller businesses in between including restaurants. These malls (at least the ones I’ve been to) for whatever reason don’t typically have grocery stores. I have seen pharmacies and small Dr’s offices in them.

Then there are “strip malls” that are typically a row of businesses on one side or surrounding a big parking lot. Typically grocery stores are in those.

Lastly, there’s “outlet malls”, which are often set up like a fake town with parking distributed throughout. They are commonly built on cheap land in the outskirts of towns, and they have mostly clothing. They are typically brand specific stores (e.g., Nike), so they are allegedly cheaper.

It’s that first category that Americans are going to be talking about if they just refer to a “mall”, though. The idea to have all your shops in a convenient place has been around forever, and still works great in many traditional business districts. The “shopping mall”, though, was somewhat of an artificial movement in the 80’s and 90’s that was always a bit destined to fail. Like people have said, the internet is partially responsible, but malls were hurting before the internet started really doing damage. In America, you basically have to drive everywhere, and if you are driving everywhere, it’s easiest to just drive directly to whatever shop you need. With malls, you have to park far out in a giant lot, and walk a long way to get to whatever business. You could call it lazy, but if you’ve only got a little bit of time after a day of work to do shopping, are you going to do the option where you get the task done in 30 minutes, or an hour?

Instigate , 3 days ago

Such an interesting perspective, thanks for your contribution! I guess our ‘shopping centres’ are essentially the first condition you’ve described that also have grocery stores attached, and it’s likely the grocery store (in Australia this basically means one of 3-4 companies) that are keeping these structures going in the modern age. Our shopping centres tend to be built ‘up’ rather than ‘out’, with 3-5 storey shopping centres (with up to 7 storey parking lots) being fairly common within city limits that are closely accessible to more than 50% of the population.

That being said though, I live fairly equidistant between two of the largest shopping centres in Sydney and still choose to go to my local, smaller, single-storey shopping centre which is very small by Australian standards (<40 stores) which feels much more like a ‘mall’.

Do you guys have a lot of standalone grocery stores that you can drive right up to, park, shop and leave? Because that’s definitely the minority here!

evasive_chimpanzee , 2 days ago

We definitely get most of our groceries from standalone grocery stores. For the most part, you drive right to it.

I just looked at some Sydney shopping centres, and they look much like our malls on the inside (except for groceries), but it seems like they are much more integrated in the neighborhoods. It looks like parking garages are more popular there than the giant lots here.

I just looked at the dead mall wikipedia page, and it has a picture of the century 3 mall. That’s a good example of what they look like here; separate from where people live, and surrounded by big lots. You can actually see the strip malls that replaced it all around it.

jordanlund , 2 days ago (edited 2 days ago)

American malls are three categories. Generally when people say “the mall”, they mean big, indoor, enclosed malls. That’s what is dying a slow death.

A local example for me:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clackamas_Town_Center

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/d4859976-f619-4528-9d80-9c8208878308.jpeg

The problem has been the large anchor stores are going out of business and the stores that remain struggle to survive.

The kind of mall you describe, Americans call “strip malls” and are much smaller and open to the elements. A grocery store, maybe a bank, fast food, not an official post office, but a pack and ship location, sometimes a DMV. That kind of thing.

Strip malls also struggle, there’s one by my house where the big grocery store just closed leaving it maybe 50% vacant.

We also have stand alone grocery stores that aren’t part of strip malls that collect other small stores around it like mini-moons. Barbershops, laundromats, liquor stores.

As long as the grocery store operates, everyone does fine.

Edit Almost forgot… “Big Box Complexes”. Not really malls, just large block stores sharing a common parking lot. So like a Target, Home Depot, Best Buy, all stand alone stores with shared parking.

Kalkaline , 3 days ago

Right, there’s got to be a good reason to go to the mall. The successful malls still draw crowds because they have more than just stores and a movie theater.

kinttach , 3 days ago

Successful malls have an Apple Store, Tesla, and Louis Vuitton, which tells us something about who can still afford to shop there.

explodicle , 2 days ago

Paradoxically, I would still go to movies if they were willing to kick people out for using their phone once during the film. There’s only one theater in my area that’s strict like that.

cerement , 4 days ago

Amazon did more for killing off small businesses – the big box store chains did more for killing off shopping malls (their preference is the strip mall where they can showcase their entire frontage (and do an end-run around building codes))

and yes, everyone is too broke on top of everything else

otp , 3 days ago

I remember hearing that big box stores killed malls. I thought they killed malls, and Amazon killed big box stores, but Amazon can also kill malls, so it was a bit of a double-whammy for malls

BearOfaTime , 4 days ago

The mall was dying by the 80’s, there was a sharp decline by then (I recall seeing numerous malls going vacant in the 90’s, around the country).

The things that drove mall popularity (especially things like large, enclosed, air-conditioned space), were no longer novel. Most cars were air-conditioned by then.

I’m sure there are many other factors, like the growth of free-standing single-vendor buildings (so construction and management costs must’ve changed).

Amazon really had nothing to do with it.

Riccosuave , 4 days ago

Conventional brick and mortar retail is extremely expensive to maintain. It has less to do with Amazon specifically, and more to do with the rise of online retail & direct to consumer business models more generally. Don’t get me wrong, Amazon was a huge pioneer in that area, but it would have happened one way or another.