In the US, did Amazon kill the mall, is everyone too broke, or a combination of other factors?

s_s , 6 days ago

Malls were just a way to privatize mainstreet and allow the ownership class of capitalists to extract more money from a local economy through large chain stores and to give them private control over what used to be public space.

Now the middle class is worth a fraction of what it used to be, their purpose has dissolved.

People use Amazon instead of the mall because they can still afford the Temu-level garbage Amazon sells.

Potatos_are_not_friends , 6 days ago

People use Amazon instead of the mall because they can still afford the Temu-level garbage Amazon sells.

I mean a few reasons.

• Pricing is better on Amazon vs mall. I can get a Gangsta Luffy T-shirt at $12 vs $20 at hot topic
• Inventory is significantly bigger. Outside of clothes, I can’t imagine not finding the exact online version and compare
• Malls are kinda ugly now. Many are indoor and just wall to wall commercialism.
• People suck. Naked dude stealing stop signs and angry Karen about the take a dump on the escalator.
• Driving vs ship to door.
• Both have temu-level garbage, but it’s cheaper on Amazon.

s_s , 6 days ago

Both have temu-level garbage, but it’s cheaper on Amazon.

Currently, as they are dying today, yes.

This is not how malls have traditionally worked.

In the past, malls provided a plug-and-play way for national chain retail to offer premium, private-labeled goods that allowed them to extract money away from a community’s locally owned stores found on main street.

sunbeam60 , 5 days ago

How can I turn this into the class struggle?

Dudewitbow , 6 days ago

as someone who lives in a fairly densly populated area, malls are almost directly tied to income levels of the local populace. malls in poorer neoghborhoods closed. upscale malls in rich neighborhoods are still thriving.

Draegur , 6 days ago

Big real estate killed malls. They aren’t as efficient at generating rent due to their maintenance and upkeep costs, so real estate holdings firms are hell bent on liquidating them, subdividing them, and redeveloping the land piecemeal in ways that better optimize for fine access control and not having to take care of any “dead” non-money-making spaces such as the concourses between the stores. Instead: just parking lots between store fronts.

Now there’s a Walmart, a Home Depot, an Applebee’s, a mattress store, a liquor store, and maybe a transient party supply store that will occasionally occupy a space on a seasonal basis. When a slot isn’t occupied by a tenant, they get to shut off the power, water, and climate control completely, and not have to end up wasting electricity or fuel conditioning the air of a space no one goes to right then.

If you WANTED to make a mall work, you could, especially if you added faux “residential” space (actually retail space where the product being sold is storage and privacy, with “sleep” being “against the rules” but they built it to intentionally not know that that’s what the “customers” are doing there). Residential malls would guarantee a constant customer and worker base as people come and go to visit family and friends and end up shopping along the way.

But they don’t want that.

They want to sell a MINIMUM viable product, and charge maximally for it.

sem , 5 days ago

Capitalists are always minmaxing …

Semi_Hemi_Demigod , 5 days ago

They aren’t as efficient at generating rent due to their maintenance and upkeep costs, so real estate holdings firms are hell bent on liquidating them, subdividing them, and redeveloping the land piecemeal in ways that better optimize for fine access control and not having to take care of any “dead” non-money-making spaces such as the concourses between the stores. Instead: just parking lots between store fronts.

This is what happened near me. The malls got turned inside out, so it’s just big boxes around a giant parking lot.

OldWoodFrame , 6 days ago

It was always short sighted tax policy. We’re just living with the blowback.

But in 1954, apparently intending to stimulate capital investment in manufacturing in order to counter a mild recession, Congress replaced the straight-line approach with “accelerated depreciation,” which enabled owners to take huge deductions in the early years of a project’s life. This, Hanchett says, “transformed real-estate development into a lucrative ‘tax shelter.’ An investor making a profit from rental of a new building usually avoided all taxes on that income, since the ‘loss’ from depreciation canceled it out. And when the depreciation exceeded profits from the building itself—as it virtually always did in early years—the investor could use the excess ‘loss’ to cut other income taxes.” With realestate values going up during the 1950s and ’60s, savvy investors “could build a structure, claim ‘losses’ for several years while enjoying tax-free income, then sell the project for more than they had originally invested.”

Since the “accelerated depreciation” rule did not apply to renovation of existing buildings, investors “now looked away from established downtowns, where vacant land was scarce and new construction difficult,” Hanchett says. "Instead, they rushed to put their money into projects at the suburban fringe—especially into shopping centers.

…wilsonquarterly.com/…/why-america-got-malled

Dark_Arc , 5 days ago

That’s really interesting! I’d heard the white flight explanation for downtowns falling apart, but this adds a new layer to it

card797 , 5 days ago

Stores are becoming less relevant by the day.

11111one11111 , 5 days ago

More joint households have both members in the work force limiting the amount of shopping being done between 9-5. Add to that the ease of ordering shit online. All of which is on top of malls requiring minors to be accompanied by adults. Add it all together and the result is noone goes to malls anymore.

ShepherdPie , 5 days ago

Plus social media and the internet. Malls used to be teen hangout places but now there are a million more options that don’t involve the hassle of actually going somewhere.

forgotmylastusername , 5 days ago

I think higher education may have played a role. Kids have to spend more time studying for longer into their life. Less time for careless days of youth when every job requires 10 years of experience. Young people have been obsessing over how to fluff their CV with credentials rather thing just living life.

Taalnazi , 5 days ago

Malls killed individual stores. They were bolstered by a heavily car-centric society.

KingThrillgore , 5 days ago

Its not any one thing, but a system of many things working against malls in a variety of manners:

• The distance of malls from city centers stemming from white flight
• Real estate development costs
• Tax benefits and subsidies
• The availability of online shopping and delivery
• The appearance of super marts like Walmart, typically in other rural or suburban areas
• Easier access to entertainment through the internet, social media, and mobile devices
• Changing social norms
• COVID

Moreless , 5 days ago

What is white flight?

KingThrillgore , 5 days ago

Throughout the 60s, as city centers became more populous, an increasingly paranoid and racist section (boomers) started moving to the suburbs out of fear of being around black people. They took their wealth and ambitions with them, leading to broad suburban growth in many metropolitan areas, and eventual policy actions.

Notyou , 5 days ago

Some places drained out or paved over pools just to make sure those scary people would enjoy themselves too much.

Hikermick , 5 days ago

Indoor malls have been on the way out for a while. They’re large Indoor spaces that need to be heated or cooled and attract young people with no money and nowhere to go. Also in a mall you only buy so much as you tired of carrying it around. An outdoor Plaza encourages people to go back to their car and unload.