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verdantbanana , to news in Why the FDA will have a hard time properly regulating cannabis
@verdantbanana@lemmy.world avatar

the whole point of the FDA taking over cannabis is the same as nicotine vaping

shut down the industry with over regulation that sounds positive on the surface

treefrog ,

Seems like if they wanted to shut it down, rescheduling it first would be an unnecessary step since it’s currently schedule one.

It will be a messy transition, as the article points out. But I doubt the point is to shut it down. Especially considering the political climate around cannabis and the messaging from the White House.

verdantbanana ,
@verdantbanana@lemmy.world avatar

but rescheduling allows them to add regulations just like when this happened to ejuices

gedaliyah ,
@gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

Unlikely. The public and political agendas are just the opposite for the two substances: most people support the expansion of cannabis products and oppose the expansion of nicotine products.

verdantbanana ,
@verdantbanana@lemmy.world avatar

safe effective nicotine consumption were generally supported by the public too and was being ingrained in the culture in movies and tv

now it is combustible cigarettes with alcohol being heavily promoted again as well in television and film

if the US does not stop voting in senile past retirement age religious right leaning presidents who view any alteration in the citizen’s conscience it might not ever change or get better

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

safe effective nicotine consumption

What evidence do you have that there is such a thing?

verdantbanana ,
@verdantbanana@lemmy.world avatar

the synthetic nicotine being produce is done with green chemistry meaning no heavy metals used in synthesis

with the nicotine being lab made no ground pollutants such as lead and other heavy metals are present just like fake vanilla extract which most seasoning coming from India with polluted soil

also less soil less environmental impact

the ingredients have gotten safer over time as well also leading to changes in other industries

hugely better product both health and environmental and all around

not to mention not have the ill effects of second hand smoke

my own lung capacity was around 80% and dropping during the years was consuming combustible nicotine and cannabis products but now is above 90% had my lungs checked by a doctor

lightyears healthier

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

None of that has to do with your claim, and it is also more claims instead of evidence.

Where’s your evidence that there is a safe level of nicotine consumption?

treefrog , (edited )

Nevermind this, see my reply to squid below. I was operating under the wrong view that nicotine by itself is not cancer causing.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Safer is not safe.

I agree, it’s safer. But how can we know it’s safe below a certain amount for lifelong vapers when there hasn’t been enough time to do a long-term study?

Wouldn’t (and I say this as a long-term cannabis vaporizer myself) putting anything into the lungs on a regular basis other than air be inherently unsafe long-term?

treefrog ,

Nothing is 100% safe. Which is why harm reduction is an important part of the conversation when discussing drug addiction.

Water is safer than tea. Tea safer than coffee. All three can in theory kill you if consumed in large enough quantities.

Anyway, I figured I would dig around more on vaping instead of just glancing at the top search result.

And, I take what I said back. Nicotine by itself causes cancer. Tobacco just makes it more likely.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9222281/

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t disagree with you on the “safer” thing at all, but OP said that it was “safe.”

But this has become moot anyway based on your research.

treefrog ,

Yeah, my bad for glancing at the top search result before I made my long-winded post above lol.

Hope you’re well, Mr. Squid.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

No better than I have been in over a year, but we’re working on it. Thanks.

treefrog ,

Sorry to hear that. My mental health is finally on the mend. Giving myself permission to be myself for the first time in my life, really.

Hope things get better for you soon :)

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

That’s great! Good luck to you!

treefrog ,

Thanks!

treefrog ,

As flying squid helped me see, safer doesn’t mean safe.

Nicotine alone can cause cancer and while vaping is ‘safer’ than tobacco, in that it’s less carcinogenic, it is still a carcinogen. And because of the ROA, vaping is actually more addictive than cigarettes.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9222281/

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

If that was their goal with vaping, it’s been a spectacular failure. So I say they should go for it.

verdantbanana ,
@verdantbanana@lemmy.world avatar

no it has not been a failure

the government was able to shut down most of the vape companies

some of them were very up to code being made in clean rooms good enough to make pharmaceuticals

now we have big tobacco vapes mixed in with shoddy products

have you talked to industry leaders such as business owners of some of these vape companies?

nicotine and cannabis industry is in shambles due to bad policies and laws

no wonder look at the right leaning conservatives that keep getting voted in with the latest one having a prosecutor as a vice

cannabis being rescheduled and not legalized is a trojan horse designed to make the people feel complacent and happy with only extreme regulation and the disappearance of sustainable, innovative products being the end result

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I see people vaping all over the place. If their goal was to shut down the industry, that sounds like a failure to me.

This also sounds like a failure of their goal:

Reported sales of cartridge products increased from $2.133 billion in 2020 to $2.496 billion in 2021; sales of disposable, non-refillable e-cigarette products increased from $261.9 million in 2020 to $267.1 million in 2021.

ftc.gov/…/ftc-issues-third-report-e-cigarette-adv…

Generally, profits of an industry the government is shutting down don’t go up.

homicidalrobot ,

Sure the industry is gaining money, but you’re ignoring specific company shutdowns and restrictions that shaped the industry out of the hands of certain players. There have been a lot of regulatory fingers in the pie, particularly above state level, that weren’t aimed at making the populace safer but instead at making those companies unable to produce or sell their most popular products. There’s also a lot of legal language bites like “e-cigarette” and “open container” that are seeing non-uniform interpretation in legal states, across vape legislature and cannabis legislature alike.

Draconic legislature isn’t quite turning the country into a hellscape for consumers, sure. But it’s clearly a possible side effect that isn’t being considered, especially as states are beginning to take it upon themselves to start outlawing studied hemp-derived cannabinoids (like delta8/10 or THC-P or THC-A) that are provided for under the 2018 farm bill.

Tl;Dr while the industry is growing, it’s clear it has enemies with legal power and that’s the crux of the complaint.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Okay, but this is what OP said:

the whole point of the FDA taking over cannabis is the same as nicotine vaping

shut down the industry with over regulation that sounds positive on the surface

The vaping industry has not been shut down, it’s growing, as I demonstrated. So, again, if that was their goal, it was a spectacular failure.

homicidalrobot ,

Cool restatement. Did you actually read what I posted instead of snipping that post though? I acknowledge it isn’t working, but you can CLEARLY see intent of decisions there skewed toward market control of a new industry, especially based on the similarities (Product control focused on appeal, not risk) of legislature brought forward compared to previous concerns

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I wasn’t quoting you, I was quoting what OP said and why I responded to it the way I did. OP claimed the goal was to shut the vaping industry down. I showed why that wasn’t true. It’s not my fault if you responded to me with some unrelated point.

homicidalrobot ,

You don’t understand my point and you wanted to dunk on someone, it’s cool. Keep posting every 2 minutes without actually reading, I’m sure the karma is good for something dude

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Since your point was unrelated to mine, the only thing I don’t understand is why you replied to me about it.

where_am_i , to science in Embryo loss is integral to IVF. Alabama’s ruling equating embryos with children jeopardizes its practice

Science sub, not politics.

Pyr_Pressure ,

Science doesn’t exist in a bubble, politics affects science.

reverendsteveii , to news in U.S. government spent more on health care in 2022 than six countries with universal health care combined

what’s fun is for all this extra money we get a lower (and dropping) life expectancy and a higher infant mortality rate. that’s right, we pay more to bury our kids and then die sooner. FREEDOM BAYBAY!

shalafi , to news in Pregnant cancer patients often have to terminate. Abortion pill restrictions could make that choice even harder

Jesus. Yet another spin I hadn’t thought of. Of course a cancer diagnosis should result in abortion, almost by default. Fuck you gonna do? Die for an irradiated fetus?

snekerpimp , to news in U.S. government spent more on health care in 2022 than six countries with universal health care combined

“That’s terrible! That’s money that should be going towards the military!”

Jaysyn , to news in Flu activity gaining steam in the U.S. as vaccination rates lag
@Jaysyn@kbin.social avatar

I got mine, I just hope it covers the active strains this year.

otp , to science in Embryo loss is integral to IVF. Alabama’s ruling equating embryos with children jeopardizes its practice

I’ll start taking Alabama seriously when their KFCs start putting fried eggs in their buckets with the rest of the chicken.

“What’re y’all complaining about? You got a WHOLE chicken, not just a few wings and legs!”

lulztard , to science in Embryo loss is integral to IVF. Alabama’s ruling equating embryos with children jeopardizes its practice

Schoolshootistanian literal motherfuckers doing retarded shite for our entertainment. Bless them.

wildcardology , to news in U.S. government spent more on health care in 2022 than six countries with universal health care combined

I won’t pretend to understand this but if health care costs more you pay more right? Unlike the six countries they compared the US with.

eskimofry ,

I guess you could say that’s supposed to be the point they are trying to make: most of the insurance and hospice in America is overpriced, exploitative, and aren’t worth the paper they are printed on.

slowwooderrunsdeep ,

I’m begging the question here but it’s an important point that the article is trying (not very well) to make…

Why does healthcare in the US cost 50% more than Europe, on average per person?

We take the same drugs, right? We have the same surgeries with the same equipment?

And that’s the cost we paid this year, without even providing coverage for the whole population.

Additional_Prune , to news in New research supports potential link between low-level lead exposure and liver injury

Didn’t we already know that there’s no such thing as a safe level of exposure to lead? I guess this research just confirms it.

Additional_Prune , to news in Flu activity gaining steam in the U.S. as vaccination rates lag

I got my flu shot. Suck it, antivax morons!

KrummsHairyBalls , to technology in UnitedHealth sued over use of algorithm in Medicare Advantage plans

And this is what Canadian conservatives want lmao

bioemerl , to news in WHO recommends dropping component of many flu vaccines

Unfortunately it looks like influenza B and C aren't actually all that common in the first place with A being in animals and causing most pandemics. This dead virus is a half of influenza B. It's neat if we killed it off, but probably not any benefit to public health.

tomi000 , to news in WHO recommends dropping component of many flu vaccines

Well WHO is it?

Nougat ,

It's the plumber, I've come to fix the sink.

sik0fewl , to news in WHO recommends dropping component of many flu vaccines

I don't know. I give up!

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