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tsonfeir , to programmer_humor in What it's like to be a developer in 2024
@tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

Why are you googling? Lol

Corigan ,

Keep seeing this but what the alternative?

Ddg is garbage, kogi is paid so what’s the go too

tsonfeir ,
@tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

DDG and is great. Let’s test your theory.

Provide a real world example of something you would search for, and we can see how they both do.

Corigan ,

Fair I can try it again.

Maybe all search engines are awful vs the height of Google before it’s enshitfication

tsonfeir ,
@tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

It’s only getting enshittier.

Searching anywhere kinda sucks. Especially if it’s an obscure topic. I swear half of what I search for just sends me to Reddit nowadays.

eightforty , to programmer_humor in What it's like to be a developer in 2024

How aboout you do your own code? Badumtiish

GissaMittJobb , to programmer_humor in What it's like to be a developer in 2024

I’ve started relying more on AI-powered tools like Perplexity for many of my search use-cases for this very fact - all results basically warrant a pre-filtering to be useful.

xmunk ,

Counter point: we had good search results a decade ago and Google voluntarily eroded their product quality for a pittance of extra ad revenue.

Having a decent search engine is achievable and we don’t need to shoehorn AI into fucking everything.

GissaMittJobb ,

I don’t disagree, but for obvious reasons, we can’t access Google from a decade ago, since they’ve made it unavailable.

I’m not really describing an ideal state, this is a mere matter of practicality.

Wirlocke ,

Unfortunately the spam arms race has destroyed any chance of search going back to the good ole days. SEO and AI content farms means we’ll need a whole new system to categorize webpages, as well as filter out human sounding but low effort spam.

Point being, it’s no longer enough to find a page that’s relevant to the topic, it has to be relevant and actually deliver information, which currently the only feasible tech that can differentiate those is LLMs.

jnk ,

It would be interesting tho to use a LLM to spot AI/SEO crap and add whole domains to a search blacklist. In that case we wouldn’t need AI to do the actual search, and this could easily just be a database for end users by the SE’s side (kinda like explicit content filters).

I’d call that option “Bullspam filter” and leave it on “moderate” by default.

small_crow ,
@small_crow@lemmy.ca avatar

I’d call it the Slop Bucket

red , (edited )

This is one solution to the issue, and it seems silly you are being downvoted for it.

Google became what it became, and years of seo optimisation cat & mouse play has reached new heights. Those obviously target Google instead of their competitors for now.

Would that we could have perfect search results, it would be beneficial to google as well.

GissaMittJobb ,

I think it might have to do with the broad anti-AI sentiment that seems to be present here at Lemmy.

nintendiator , to programmer_humor in What it's like to be a developer in 2024

Skill issue. Old version docs tend to offer you a redirect to more recent docs, and even then something sintactic like an “IN” operator is unlikely to change in form or structure between versions of a database engine.

kattenluik ,

You realize It’s just an example right?

nintendiator ,

Course I do. Why, do you need a link to the newest version of the joke?

kattenluik ,

Ohh I get it, it’s so hilarious that no one knew it was a joke!

I guess you can always laugh at it yourself.

moonpiedumplings ,

Old version docs tend to offer you a redirect to more recent docs

Sadly, the docs, I’ve worked with (openstack and ansible) frequently, don’t do this. They have a button to go to the latest version of the docs, but not to the equivalent page on the latest version. This means I have to find the equivalent page again, from the integrated search usually.

And yes, a lot can change between versions. New features can get added that solve your problems or older stuff can get removed.

nintendiator ,

They have a button to go to the latest version of the docs, but not to the equivalent page on the latest version

Oh yeah this is a PITA. Tho in that case it’s skill issue on their end.

MrOxiMoron , to programmer_humor in What it's like to be a developer in 2024

In desperation you click the link to the old docs, change the version to the latest version and pray you don’t get a 404

jadedwench ,

Been there. Done that. FML on searching for programming help some days. Versioning is a nightmare as the way you “used” to do things is no longer relevant and the rest of the results are some asshole saying it is a duplicate question that was answered 10 years ago…that is no longer fucking relevant!

Sorry. Yesterday sucked. I hope today is less frustration and more things working like they are supposed to.

theparadox ,

As someone who is trying to teach themselves a few new things this year by diving to projects using them… I seriously, seriously feel you. It honestly makes me question whether I should just abandon each project I start, both professional and personal.

All the relevant hits are from years and/or 2+ versions of whatever ago or forum posts with dead links to an alleged solution.

I feel like in the past I could just dive into something and search my way through it. Now I feel like that era is over and I question whether it’s me, my niche project idea, the disappearing community, or just the search engines.

KISSmyOSFeddit ,

The answer to your question is that all the info is in chat apps now

refalo ,

Multiple times I have searched for a question and found a single SO answer from years back that was my own, with no replies.

I hope something nice happens to you today :)

jadedwench ,

I lucked out. Success at last! Now I can continue to code furiously doing things I know how to do.

nilclass ,

This is the way.

Luckily the postgresql docs have links for exactly that

MystikIncarnate ,

Oh, that stuff happens all the time. The one that really pissed me off was Microsoft 404-ing basically their entire KB system.

That thing was standing for so long you could still find Windows 9x stuff on it, and it was glorious.

Around the time they stopped supporting windows 7, they bricked the entire thing up and started a new system. Overnight, all the Microsoft help article links went dead. Find a good forum post about an issue that you’re having and someone replied with a link to the MS KB saying little more than “this should work” followed by a sea of commenters saying thanks, that worked, but when you follow the link, it goes nowhere.

What a fucking waste.

refalo ,

entire KB system

And right before they did that, they started removing footnotes from KB articles that only dealt with older OSes, so if you ever needed to go back and find something, it just wasn’t there anymore. For example certain RGB packing formats were only supported on newer OSes and the footnote used to tell you that, but then it disappeared. I have been directly affected by that multiple times.

MystikIncarnate ,

I wonder if the internet archive has a full copy of the KBs from before Microsoft dumped them. I’d love to set those up in a web server so I can reference them as needed.

refalo ,
MystikIncarnate ,

Thank you!

OpenPassageways , to programmer_humor in What it's like to be a developer in 2024

Some of this is just because some of these frameworks and technologies have been around for a while and they iterate frequently. I see a ton of Azure content that is obsolete after only a few years.

problematicPanther , to programmer_humor in What it's like to be a developer in 2024
@problematicPanther@lemmy.world avatar

so apparently google search is just shitty now, that’s the takeaway here.

fmstrat , to programmer_humor in What it's like to be a developer in 2024

Postgres is a weird one. The first link probably answers the query, just click the latest version (or your version) once you are there.

The problem is probably so many systems run old versions, so the results skew.

laughterlaughter ,

It doesn’t matter. List all the crap you want, but show me the most up to date official documentation for the postgres “IN” operator in the very first result! It can’t be that hard.

fmstrat ,

But the 9.6 version, or 11 version, could be the most popular.

laughterlaughter ,

Well, in that case it’s a shitty search engine if it doesn’t offer accurate results.

And, well, that’s what we have with Google.

un_blob , to programmer_humor in What it's like to be a developer in 2024
@un_blob@jlai.lu avatar

Well internet enshitification is real…

snaggen ,
@snaggen@programming.dev avatar

You are confusing Google and Internet… they are very different things.

Sonotsugipaa ,
@Sonotsugipaa@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Judging by Google’s chokehold over web browsers and websites in general, they’re not that different…

laughterlaughter ,

You’re confusing the web with the internet. But I don’t blame you because OP did that too.

jnk ,

Doesn’t mean the statement is less true, the enshitification of google is a symptom, the disease is the internet as a whole. Google and LLMs screwing the web, M$ screwing windows, Apple’s existence by itself, Meta monopolizing and screwing social media, and don’t get me started with streaming platforms and other media industries are all symtoms.

Considering all of that, yes, the internet enshitification is very real.

laughterlaughter ,

Symptoms of what?

But anyway, the cool thing about the internet is that you can find your nice cozy niche and stay there.

That’s how the 90s internet was. If the megacorps want to be in here, fine. I’ll just stay in Lemmy. And when Lemmy starts sucking, I’ll move to somewhere else.

MHanak ,

It’s not just google, google is just the most popular, so a lot of the seo is targeted for it

belated_frog_pants ,

I mean its both but…

jezza , to programmer_humor in What it's like to be a developer in 2024

This is why I’ve really grown attached to Kagi (paid search engine).

It’s made the internet usable again. I’m honestly surprised how much of difference there is. I’d really recommend people give it a shot. (there’s a free trial for it)

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/dfa66024-5355-4a15-8528-c22748acdfda.png

meliaesc ,

A paid search engine… 🤔

filcuk ,

We’ve been conditioned. Everything has a cost.

jezza ,

People expect a free thing to always have your best interests at heart.

Kagi makes sense to me. I pay for a product.

(just as a random side note, lenses alone would make it worth it)

dan ,
@dan@upvote.au avatar

Many people would prefer a paid service over an ad supported one.

meliaesc ,

I generally agree with that, but as an aggregation service it would need to justify not providing any actual content/information with its price structure. The same argument against AI models trained with user data.

monobot ,

It still costs money for hardware and hosting. Scraping web and training AI ain’t cheap.

ikidd ,
@ikidd@lemmy.world avatar

Many people would prefer that their search history isn’t associated to personal and payment information.

Corigan ,

I’d be curious to sign up if the paid version wasn’t search capped.

I search a lot of random stuff or typo etc I feel like I’d burn through the allowance in 2 weeks

verdigris ,

Isn’t Kagi an AI company with a bunch of shady shit going on? I’m always extremely skeptical of these posts.

jezza ,

I never heard anything before this, so I looked around, and there’s definitely some posts about it.

www.osnews.com/story/139270/do-not-use-kagi/

d-shoot.net/kagi.html

I’ll have to give them a read.

For now, ignore my recommendation, as I don’t yet fully know my stance on this, with the information provided.

However, I can say that I’ve been super happy with the search results. I don’t use their email service. Just the search and the access to all of the LLMs that are out there.

cschreib ,

I don’t know what shady shit you’re referring to. They do AI, but I don’t use any of that. IMO their core strength is the search engine and how it works for you rather than against.

SecretPancake , to programmer_humor in What it's like to be a developer in 2024

Third result in DDG.

samara , to programmer_humor in What it's like to be a developer in 2024

“The Man Who Killed Google Search”

www.wheresyoured.at/the-men-who-killed-google/

Vilian ,

news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40133976 here’s a hackernews discussion about that article

andxz ,

That was an interesting read, thank you.

jonasw , to programmer_humor in What it's like to be a developer in 2024

Kagi:

https://discuss.tchncs.de/pictrs/image/c1456a12-871e-4fda-8e50-716eb0d7de6d.png

First result is the official documentation with the page that contains information about the in operator

This was the result: www.postgresql.org/docs/9.0/functions.html

BUT it is the documentation for 9.0

Though if I would use postgresql documentation very often I could just use the Kagi feature that rewrites URLs with a regex, so I can replace it always with the latest version.

Kagi Documentation for that feature:

help.kagi.com/kagi/features/redirects.html#redire…

Some use cases of redirects include:

  • Change domains to a preferred domain (reddit.com to old.reddit.com)
  • Fixing links to outdated documentation with bad SEO
  • Rewriting proxied pages (like Google AMP) to their source URL
  • Changing any http link to https
Woovie ,

Interesting, my Kagi results gave W3Schools, geeks for geeks, and postgresqltutorial.com before the official docs, but hey still way better than OP’s results!

jonasw ,

Kagi has search personalization where you can lower/raise/pin specific domains (one of kagis main selling points) and I blocked geeks for geeks and w3schools, as these are irrelevant for me and I don’t want them in my results

pkill ,

can’t you do that on a self-hosted searxng? I know you can do that with YaCY, but YaCY search results kinda suck

jonasw , (edited )

I don’t think that’s possible with searxng (but I’m not 100% sure, but I can’t seem to find that feature)

I know there are browser extensions which can filter out domains in search results for different search engines like google and duckduckgo.

But the pinning/lowering/raising is a bit trickier to implement as an extension, because what kagi does is basically:

  1. Load 3 pages of search results in the backend
  2. Show a result as the first entry if it matches a rule for pinning
  3. Influence the search ranking algorithm with the lower/raise rules of the user
  4. Filter out blocked domains

It would be possible but not as “streamlined” as Kagi does.

Don’t get me wrong, Kagi definitely has its rough edges and the search ranking algorithm is sometimes very unpredictable, but it provides good enough results for me to be worth the 10$ per month for unlimited searches.

pkill , to programmer_humor in What it's like to be a developer in 2024

don’t use Google, problem solved

Emmie , to programmer_humor in What it's like to be a developer in 2024

Maybe don’t use google. Kagi, ddg handle it fine

hightrix ,

This is the real answer. Stop using Google search.

force ,

if Kagi were open source sure, but it’s $10 a month and the CEO it is kind of an asshole. And a generative-AI-bro (please don’t make me call them GAI-bros)

I’d rather stick to FOSS solutions

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