There seems to be a long established pattern where Trump daydreams about irrefutable and overwhelming exoneration and then decides it should be true and tells everyone about it. Narcissists have a tendency to create shitstorms and then daydream about escapist fantasies to evade the consequences they always create for themselves.
It’s a proven pattern as well - the braindead followers see him tweet the words ‘REPORT’ and ‘EXONERATION’ and they assume it’s a a done deal and don’t bother to follow up to verify the actual evidence.
If it was Putin I’d say it’s probably an intentional strategy, but with Trump it’s probably more lizard brain instinct gained from his years of grifting.
I mean, it’s your classic real estate sales person. You’ll say and do anything to make the sale, and afterwards you try to weasel out of your fancy promises.
Normally with a state agency it all comes tumbling down the moment you actually view the property.
Oh I see, so when you said picturesque what you meant was microscopic and when you said a lively night life what you meant was it’s in the middle of a gang turf war.
But when you’re selling a building that’s yet to be built, people hand you money without you having to show anything. It’s why developers are such scumbags.
Look, we had the report, ok? It was complete and it was an amazing report, a perfect report, it was just so good. Some say it was the best report they ever saw. My lawyers said, Donald, how did you come up with this, are you a lawyer? Because it was just so perfect. If only they knew! I’m better than any lawyer! And then Obama, this guy… where was he even born? Who is this guy? He sends his vicious dogs after me, they almost got me, these thugs, these evil dogs… and they ate my report. He was so jealous of my report! Look, believe me, ok, I’ll rewrite the report. It will be even better. The best. Believe me.
I can’t believe so many people are cool with the federal government censuring specific platforms. It’s one thing if we wanted to ban an action through law (e.g. data harvesting or shipping it overseas) but it’s another to silence a specific piece of software.
Imagine if Congress passed a bill saying Steve can’t recommend movies to his friends anymore.
Being worried about CCP controlled apps is a sensible concern. Banning a single app (because Mark Zuckerberg is upset that it’s stealing his customers) is not a helpful solution.
I’m not saying that’s not concerning (it’s why I won’t use it). I think what they can do with widespread analytics and pseudonymous data collection is… potentially impactful in ways we can’t foresee.
But the Bill of Rights does not only apply to US citizens. And targeted bans are just a tool of government censorship that I’d rather not see wielded by politicians. I think the only reason it’s targeted is because they either don’t have evidence of the negative behavior or they’re unwilling to ban the it because it would impact domestic platforms.
We put import restrictions on groups of things. We ban cheese from France. We don’t ban cheese specifically from Jacques Cheese Emporium in Lyon but all other French cheese is okay.
If Steve is a genocidal authoritarian asshole who, in the process of recommending movies, plants listening devices around your home, GPS trackers in your clothing and keyloggers on your computer while browsing through your underwear drawer and file cabinets, I don’t think he’s very good company. Steve might start by showing you Airplane! and Blazing Saddles but once you’re drawn in by the entertainment, he’ll sit you down for the Wolf Warrior movies, Amazing China and The Battle at Lake Changjin.
Ban Steve, he can keep pushing his agenda on his own family back home. That’s still not an ideal situation but this at least is reasonably within our rights and capabilities.
But in that case, it would be a far better option to ban anyone from placing keyloggers on your computer and GPS trackers in your clothing, because that not only stops Steve from doing it, but also Steve’s cousin Alex, and anyone else who would want to do so.
“Rather than releasing the Report on the Rigged & Stolen Georgia 2020 Presidential Election on Monday, my lawyers would prefer putting this, I believe, Irrefutable & Overwhelming evidence of Election Fraud & Irregularities in formal Legal Filings,” Trump said on Truth Social.
His lawyers assured them they’re totally going to put it all in their formal report, and then promptly tossed it in the shredder when he left the room.
Is this moron capable of thinking further than 15 minutes into the future? Did he think people would forget about this magical report that would exonerate him?
People who join the military aren’t exactly known for being smart.
Or more accurately, the military wouldn’t want you if you are too smart. They want the average person that can understand basic commands without being too smart to question it.
Not surprising at all that a military person decided to do this.
Edit: On the other hand. Maybe he’s actually a genius attempting a “becoming a propaganda tool” gambit. North Korea wouldn’t lose much for treating him good, and they can make him say things on camera about how “bad” the US is. As long as North Korea deems him useful, he might actually live a decent life. But thats dependent on North Korea doesn’t just decide to get rid of him once they decide that they don’t like him anymore.
lol what. You literally need to pass a test to join the military at all. And it's a pen-and-ink test with science, math and physics problems. Not a "can you follow commands" test.
they might maybe want meatheads for some positions but theres a lot you dont want meat heads for. like you dont want your nuclear techs to be meat heads.
Weird take. Plenty of people join the military because it’s their best immediate option career wise. As for the military not wanting you if you’re too smart - they try to recruit college educated people all the time and the higher you score on their exams the better. The US military is huge and diverse, I’m not sure I understand the point you’re making.
Strange thing, that asvab. The people in the Navy that scored the highest were also the dumbest. On top of that, the Navy told 'em to go play with all their nuclear toys.
Obeying a chain of command does not mean you have to be dumb. As a matter of fact, it is every person’s job in the military to report unlawful orders and not follow orders blindly.
Additionally, the entire command structure in most American branches is setup for each unit to operate somewhat independently. As an example, a general or admiral says: “I want those 10sq miles flattened by tomorrow and here is all the equipment it should take to do it.” Every division, unit or whatever, figures out how to do it. If they have problems, they can reassess the situation on the ground and report back up that a strategy is or is not working. Units on the ground can coordinate with other units to ensure a smooth attack.
In Russia, the chain of command doesn’t work like that. The generals will tell units what to do, and that is that: One unit attack from the east, the other from the west and hopefully they don’t start shooting at each other.
(I over-simplified a ton, but you get the idea.)
Also, the military absolutely wants you if you are too smart. The problem is, those smart people can get 20x the pay with half the shit in the private sector.
When I was in the Navy, two of my five years were spent in school learning electronics, radios and computers. (I slept through IT school since I could have probably taught the classes anyway.)
This used to happen occasionally during the cold war. US/NATO defecting to the USSR didn’t happen often, but it did happen occasionally.
You’ve already gotten read on that take on the military, so I’m not going to bother with that. I will say that it seems like this young person has some mental and behavioral issues, given his rank at his age and his disciplinary history. I would think he’s not someone who tends to make sound judgments or think things through.
In general, the military tries to actively avoid people with these kinds of issues, and will generally not reward this kind of behavior when it comes up. There are a lot of things you can point a finger at the military about with regard to behavior toward civilians or abuse within the ranks, but in this case it looks to me like things were more or less working, to the point that he decided to run away and join the circus.
I would put it another way. The military had a great number of members who are very smart and also very dumb. Some are going to make incredibly dumb decisions.
King, who joined the U.S. Army in January 2021, faced two allegations of assault in South Korea, and eventually pleaded guilty to one instance of assault and destroying public property for damaging a police car during a profanity-laced tirade against Koreans, according to court documents. He was due to face more disciplinary measures when he arrived back in the United States.
LOL. How come every black person didn’t try to free themselves from slavery? How come every black person didn’t become a civil rights activist? How come every black person didn’t march on Washington, become a conductor on the underground railroad, or join the Black Panthers?
Your grasp on what it means for an issue to be systemic is ridiculous.
Hmm can someone tell me if I’m just in a “republicans are hysteric about it so it must not be that bad” mindset?
It’s obviously spyware to some degree, but this really seems more like a case of red-scare. I can’t put my finger on exactly why, though. Makes me think I might just be reacting to their reaction.
I guess, what exactly are they afraid that China is going to do with this data? It’s a missing puzzle piece that I’ve heard nothing coherent on besides “China gonna spy on muh datas”. Like, sure, maybe if you’re a government official, and I don’t think bans of tiktok on government devices are stupid, but I think the nationwide ban idea is pretty dumb and baseless. So I guess my actual question is, what are they afraid of happening, exactly?
…then they aught to ban every app with user generated content. YouTube might be the biggest propaganda vector we have right now, and the powers that be would not be able to tell which nation is pumping out anti-us videos due to it being so easy to lie about stuff like that.
That’s quite a bad response if that’s really the reason. If they’re worried about propaganda, the best defense against it is education on what is propaganda, and how to spot it, not banning a single vector of it when so many others exist already.
This only supports my theory that this is red-scare nonsense (though please let me know if I misunderstood, I really do want to understand)
I think the propaganda fear isn’t necessarily due to user content, but rather the algorithm being set to intentionally push certain content/narratives that China wants pushed. Politicians don’t target YouTube because it’s not China setting the algorithm, it’s an American corporation and politicians like that. Personally I don’t have any real opinions on TikTok, although I wish all social media killed their algorithms that seem intentionally designed to push radical content (because clicks).
Algorithms push content to produce engagement and retention. If someone is getting radicalized by algorithms it’s because they are engaged by the radicalism.
My TikTok fyp (algorithmic content) is full of artists - mostly vocals and strings, but some brass too, along with Creepy Dave animal videos and a few British (and British style humor)comedy sketches. It’s quite enjoyable. I think the only political content I can remember is a couple of Jeff Jackson videos (NC US House if Rep), and that’s because I looked him up after my wife forwarded me one of his online bits.
People who get radicalized are ripe for picking, not converted. And if we are concerned about SM, we need to outlaw most talking head TV and talk radio along with it.
I argue the government is nefarious for using propaganda instead of the facts of the matter to sway public opinion. (This opinion extends to any government, which likely means every government because, in my general assumption, power holders seem to be unable to not lie to hold on to and amass more power.)
At this point, I can’t really argue with your point, you’re right, but I sure hate it regardless.
As for your edit, I don’t think that really applies. It’d make sense if the issue was voting for someone from China vs someone from the US, but this is more like “who’s allowed to spy on you? Our creepy guy who has a higher chance of doing something with the info they spied from you or this other creepy offshores guy who is less likely to do anything with that info (but the offshore guys are creepier! And worse!!! Trust me, bro!!!)”
In your example, obviously I’d rather the guy who is invested in the neighborhood to some degree so if it turns to shit, he’s going down with it. In my example, I’d much rather the guy who’s not.
Republicans “trust me, bro”'d the US into shitty situations time and time again, and I’m slightly worried if we give them the ability to ban apps, they will not stop until the only shit left is Truth Social. They love their fucking echo chambers, as much as they used to rail against them.
I think that’s why my kneejerk reaction is to distrust their reasoning, but I did get what I was looking for in another part of this thread:
If the CCP can monitor you indefinitely, and have enough man/ai power to pull it off, they could theoretically social engineer infrastructure attacks without actually putting themselves at almost any legal risk (blackmailing is always illegal, but the methods used to get the blackmail would be hidden in the tandc’s)
Unfortunately, all I hear from republicans is tiktok=China, China=bad without any of these sorts of details, which is why I approached this with such skepticism initially
I literally can not imagine what life in China must be like. Especially for someone of about my socioeconomic class. I may have seen American Factory a while ago, but in case I’m thinking of the wrong thing, I’ll check it out again. Thanks for the rec!
(Also, in case it’s not clear, I wasn’t saying the US was anywhere near as bad as or better than China in regards to anything, just that I couldn’t tell if this specific rattling was just republican red scare bs or if it actually had substance to it. Turns out, there’s some substance to it, they’re just not articulating a position well on it, imo)
It’s not about the propaganda they can push but the data they can harvest with full access to everything your phone can provide. It’s the difference between simple algorithms and full on individuals machine learning models targeting you. Combine that with an actual malicious intent and you get some pretty interesting and terrifying possibilities inside information warfare and kinetic.
What are these interesting and terrifying possibilities inside information warfare and kinetic warfare?
That’s specifically what I’m after. It sounds like boogyman fear right now, but it sounds like you have something more concrete. What is it that you have in mind, exactly?
They could use unmitigated microphone access to develop an exact profile on what would get you to spy for them and betray the country and to what extent. Location based models from minute gps data which can predict exactly where you are to maximize attacks on infrastructure. 3d models of the inside of every federal building and us military bases from direct camera access.
Combining models can create increasing impacts with automation and cyber capabilities.
An individual example would be automatic ai generation of images of your family being threatened sent to you while you are at work. All they are asking you to do is go and flush the toilet.
Everyone does that at the same time and overwhelms the sewage system creating a manufactured infrastructure crisis in Arlington VA around the Pentagon. This multiplied by a hundred issues all at once as they invade Taiwan.
This is the type of attack that’s only possible with direct access to literally all the data that the little sensor node that is your phone can provide over time. It doesn’t include the types of profiling that they could do with your political inclinations to magnify any discontent with the world around you at the most inconvenient time for the government. It also doesn’t include the possibility that you might be a decision maker for government contracts someday or a politician influencing policy towards China.
Ever done anything wrong and still had your phone powered on that could possibly be used against you? Are you sure? What if they have enough image data to make a video that looks just like you doing something against your loved ones that they also have profiles on?
I think, still, that the best defense against this type of thing is education. Education on what nefarious actors can do with data types xy and z, and education on how to not get owned by a foreign actor.
I still think an app ban is principally un-American, but this is the imagination part that I couldn’t come up with that at least gives what I’m still calling republican hysteria a veneer of legitimacy.
Agree. I want to ban TikTok('s algorithms) too, but on grounds of algorithm addiction and national security issues it causes. That also means Instagram Reels and YouTube Shorts.
This isn’t about China having the data…it’s about the US not being able to harvest the data.
I could care less if China knows about my kinks or what my favorite pizza is…but depending on how the wind blows over the next decade, I really do care if the US knows about my political leanings.
I had it for two days and I spent over 36 hours on the app.
So that justifies the federal government stepping in to save you from yourself? Should we have a War on Algorithms next? War on drugs has been going swimmingly.
It’s not just me, there are tons of people who are susceptible to schemes like social media etc. it’s why we don’t let kids smoke and they shouldn’t vape nicotine either. It’s why we regulate gambling, and why we should regulate sugary drinks too.
We didn’t evolve for a world with instant satisfaction, and we can’t cope with it.
we don’t let kids smoke and they shouldn’t vape nicotine either.
To be clear, we don’t ban children from consuming these products. We ban the sale of nicotine products to children. By anyone. The federal government didn’t come in and ban Marlboro.
It’s why we regulate gambling, and why we should regulate sugary drinks too.
Regulations creating rules of behavior that apply to all actors. Not just making a law saying people aren’t allowed inside the Bellagio.
The difference is super important. Laws need to be applied equally.
I can’t disagree with an opinion like that coupled with an anecdote like that.
I disagree that it’s the federal government who should be stepping in to limit screen time though.
In fact, tiktok is the only app I’ve seen that has a “why don’t you go touch grass” timer, so in that regard, it’s got less nefarious design patterns than, say, Facebook.
I don’t think I understand what you mean by dangerous in this context, honestly. When I think danger, I think of bodily harm. What does your definition of dangerous entail when it comes to social media apps that physically can’t cause harm? Is my understanding of danger too simplistic?
I look at it as completely missing the root problem, which is companies have way too much power to harvest and hoard data. If there were strong data ownership and protection laws in the US TikTok would either follow those rules or be fined/banned for actual cause. Washington is just mad a company not in US jurisdiction is the one doing the harvesting for once.
I don’t disagree with that which is why I’m currently in the “this is red-scare” camp. If Washington (more specifically, the NSA and friends) hadn’t been buying our data to peruse via the lax privacy laws we currently have, maybe they’d have a leg to stand on with any of this…
I might be a little paranoid here so feel free to lmk, but a few uses for the data gathered by a foreign government/keeping people addicted:
The most obvious: Propaganda to push people to distrust their government
The less reasonable but still possible: Time wasting, people spend less time trying new things due to the lack of instant gratification, decreasing productivity/capability of the users. We’ve seen China begin to address this domestically with new laws limiting usage, what the US would consider overreach (unless it effects the bottom line perhaps?)
The downright unreasonable: Profile building using accounts as a digital fingerprint to determine military capability, it’s amazing what people will advertise about themselves online, TikTok occasionally tells people what illness (mental or physical) before even they are formally diagnosed. Imagine leveraging that information in a ‘unethical’ way, the possibilities are endless.
I think the paranoia is what I was looking for, so thank you for delivering!
For the most obvious: idk, I think people should generally have a healthy distrust of those in government positions. Maybe ideally not, but in reality, it’s necessary to not be taken advantage of by any manner of power hungry people. If tiktok half truths inspire someone to start actually looking at what xyz government has done, then that’s a win in my book. If they just eat the half truths as is straight from tiktok, that’s when there’s a problem, but that’s what my “why don’t they educate people on how to spot propaganda” is to address.
Less reasonable: I think people should be allowed to do what they want to do long as it doesn’t infringe on the health and safety of another. I guess you can split hairs about it decreasing health due to people working out less or something like that, but I don’t think that’s a good enough reason for government action.
Unreasonable: this actually seems the most reasonable to me, believe it or not. Military people posting the wrong thing at the wrong time from even a personal account can and has had bad effects on security before. That’s why I would support a ban of any spyware-like app on government devices and on military bases (this was originally only support for a ban on gov devices, but I think if we’re thinking about security, banning it in places where leaks may cost lives makes sense)
As for the endless possibilities of leveraging mental illness knowledge of a user, I’m afraid I can’t imagine what one could do. The only time I can imagine that would really matter is if China takes over the US and goes full genocide on the population. I think the world would go down in nuclear flames before that would happen though…
If the app was literally called “CCP Government Monitor and Sensor Node” would you say the same thing about people being free to use it how they please? At the very least you would recommend any phone with it installed be banned from any government location or strategic location and people who use it scrutinized. As it currently stands, people don’t believe that’s what it is because they like it.
If you accept what the government is trying to communicate about it, the lines around individual freedom and the freedom to endanger others becomes pretty clear. You have the freedoms to work with explosives but you have no right to take a bomb on a military base. It is the same with data models. Having worked in machine learning and defense, I’m inclined to believe it. I acknowledge that I’m biased here but take my opinion for what it’s worth.
I would say malicious malware shouldn’t be sold on the app store and that anyone who hosts it should suffer whatever fallout it comes with (not the end users, the apk providers). However, due to the US being The Way That It Is™, we don’t actually have any recourse like that for providers of malware. As for spyware… I guess it probably should be handled like malware too. Eh you got me lol
I’ve said a couple different places in this thread I support a ban of tiktok on government phones and in at least one other place I support a ban of it on military bases, but my main issue was that I couldn’t figure out how it could be used for nefarious purposes outside of government phones or areas.
As for “you have the right to work with the data models, but not remove the data from US soil”, that’s a new one, I’ll have to think about that some more. Good point though, I think.
Ask yourself if the American government had the ability to talk directly to the Russian populace with no interference from their government, what might they say/do/cause to happen.
That’s what Tiktok is, and that’s what a lot of the fear is about. It’s know that all Chinese companies have heavy connections to the government, so if they wanted to do something they could.
Not even saying Tiktok is that bad, mostly just saying Americans, especially the government is a bunch of fucking hypocrites about this shit.
Honestly, keep it to “If you don’t like it don’t use it” and leave it at that. The idea of the government picking what social network people are allowed on seems foolish, and I imagine many people will side load the app (At least on Android) if it’s officially banned.
Unfortunately I literally can’t imagine anything convincing coming out of the US’s mouth given that case. It’s not like we can Manchurian candidate sleeper cells in Russia using our influence, and I’d argue China also has similar limitations.
The worst I can imagine is “us bad” with a lot of easily disprovable half truths that only stand for idiots who believe whatever tiktok gives them. And if the politicians who support this ban are arguing that most Americans are like that, then they’d better be pushing for better education or else they are also nefarious (because why else would they want people to be susceptible to propaganda, but not XYZ’s propaganda?)
I guess maybe my issue now is that it almost seems that republicans are trying to do their own propaganda machine, but are incensed that China might be stealing morons who are, as another commenter put it, ripe for radicalization. But that doesn’t seem right because I’d be surprised if they didn’t also have a bunch of outreach shit through tiktok… Idk, this is already delving into conspiracy theory territory so I’m gonna just stop myself here.
But all in all, I totally agree with your last paragraph, especially “if you don’t like it, then don’t use it”.
They don’t need to be particularly convincing points, their targets are teenagers. They just need to be at a frequency that their viewer accepts them to be the ‘common’ point of view.
Well I mean, that does make sense. I still believe tiktok [youtu.be/Ti8v4eL8oIE](really is a bit of spyware) (sorry for the longish YouTube video) but that could definitely be a contributing factor to this case
google is also spyware… so is facebook while we’re at it and literally ANY OTHER APP YOU PUT ON YOUR PHONE. Ever notice how every single thing has an app? It’s not to make it easy for you to buy stuff from them, it’s so they can utilize your data to make them more money.
You mean when China and other countries have been fudging the numbers on their supposed GDP.
China should be fucked. It’s biggest industry’s is house building and it’s just been building fake cities to keep up with this apparent industry. It’s building for the sake of numbers going up in a spreadsheet.
If Chinas numbers stop going up maybe other countries numbers also won’t go up.
Why won’t anyone think of the shareholders. Someone please do something. All numbers must go up at all times.
You mean when China and other countries have been fudging the numbers on their supposed GDP
The closer China gets to America’s nominal GDP the more I see this delusion spread around. No, unlike what YouTube clickbait tells you, the IMF, World Bank and United Nations are not all conspiring together to artificially inflate China’s GDP en.wikipedia.org/…/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nomi…
Today, China’s so-called ghost cities that were so prevalently showcased in 2013 and 2014 are no longer global intrigues. They have filled up to the point of being functioning, normal cities – ex-ghost cities are rarely news.
King, who joined the U.S. Army in January 2021, faced two allegations of assault in South Korea, and eventually pleaded guilty to one instance of assault and destroying public property for damaging a police car during a profanity-laced tirade against Koreans, according to court documents. He was due to face more disciplinary measures when he arrived back in the United States.
It’s just a hunch, but I believe he has more experience with racism than he’s willing to admit.
reuters.com
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