Let’s go to the extremes here: let’s say I’m a vegan, and love snakes and want my snake to not eat live mouse, do you think I can feed the snake vegan snake food?
This is all hypothetical as I dislike snakes and love bacon.
Let’s go to the extremes here: let’s say I’m a vegan, and love snakes and want my snake to not eat live mouse, do you think I can feed the snake vegan snake food?
well i mean, snakes are pretty fucking stupid. assuming the snake can digest it properly, and gets the required nutrients, it should be fine.
However we can also consider that mayhaps you live in NYC which has a rat problem, perhaps you should just feed your snake rats instead.
Veganism is a philosophy that calls for reducing harm to animals where practical and possible. You can conjure up whatever hypothetical you like, and if you specifically look for situations where harm to animals is unavoidable, then harm to animals will be… unavoidable, in those situations.
However, the vast majority of choices you’ll make that affect the lives of animals don’t happen within the context of these sorts of thoughts experiments. You don’t have to eat rats or bacon in order to survive. So it’s not really relevant, unless you’re actually in that sort of situation.
Personally, I simply wouldn’t keep a snake as a pet, and if I had one, I’d give it away. The delimma you’ve presented pits my feeling of wanting a snake against my ethical beliefs about not harming animals, and I consider that ethical belief to be more important. I could always just watch videos of snakes or go see them at the zoo or whatever. But if you did one of those, “You’re stranded on a deserted island with nothing to eat but a crate full of frozen steaks that washed ashore,” then sure, I’d prioritize my survival because it wouldn’t be practical to avoid them in that situation.
Well sure, but it was all a shit-post comment not actually meant to be taken seriously. I chose a snake for that very reason. Though your comment gave me a ton to think about and was well thought out! Bravo!
You can tweak this metaphor and get plenty of real life examples. Cats are obligate carnivores. There’s been lots of morons who went vegan and decided their cats could be vegan, too. I’ll leave guessing the outcome of that as an exercise to the reader.
I have a few friends who work retail, and we’ve talked about nightmare customers. The shop closes at 7:30 every Friday, but two people often walk in between 7:10 and 7:30 to demand service that takes 30minutes to complete for one person and is appointment only which all appointments are closed by 7:00pm for the staff to leave on time. They expect to be served despite the fact that the tools required for the service are already put away by 7:10. Sometimes my friend bends to their requests, but I keep telling him: closing time is closing time, and doing so is like teaching your dog to eat off your plate. It’s okay for now, but it will come back to bite you.
If you’re going to show up close to closing time and are still willing to be served, then TIP THEM WELL. I’ve done it a few times, and I’m guilty of it, but I’ve made it worth their while.
There was one time in 2023 when my friends and I wanted to get together for some wings. We stopped by a dinner on the outskirts of town at 10:30 pm, and they close at 11:00 pm. We went in, and I asked if they would still serve us because I know it’s late. And I don’t want to be an asshole. They served us, and we enjoyed our wings while catching up on life before leaving a hefty tip on the table.
This year, there was another time when we went out to a local car hop at 8:30 pm, which closes at 9:00 pm. The girls serving and taking orders did a great job, and it was scorching hot outside all day. Since I don’t go out to eat often and would rather give my business to mom-and-pop shops rather than the local megacorporation, we all pitched in and left a 40% tip – which came out to be around $24 on our $60 meal. When she came to take the tray from the car window, she asked if we needed anything else, and I handed her the tip of $24. Her face lit up, and she asked if this was a mistake. I said it was on purpose, and for her to have a good night. She smiled and thanked us before we left. Although the tip hurt my wallet quite a bit, with my brain reminding me of the $24 I lost, it felt good to help someone out – especially since she likely deals with a lot of crappy people in crappy weather.
If a business can’t or doesn’t want to provide their service after 7pm, their closing time should be 7pm (or earlier), not 730pm. It’s not “assbag” to go into an open business and expect to receive whatever service they allegedly provide, and it certainly doesn’t warrant extraordinary tips.
my apologize i forgot to add that the service the late comers demanded was an appointment only service. which usually all appointments were closed by 7:00. didnt mean to be a your tip is 50% 80% 100% meme
thanks for pointing it out, ill make sure to add the context
100% this, I’ve been a few times to pubs etc. where they tell you the kitchen closing time separately from the pub closing time but then when you try to order food before that they say they already took last orders because the kitchen staff finish at that time.
Like bro, politely I do not care what time your staff finish their shift, it doesn’t affect me. As a customer, I care what time service ends - that’s the time that should be included on the opening hours to the public.
There is always going to be a divide between people who have done restaurant closings and those that haven’t. Some people who haven’t done it will not see any issue with showing up 10 minutes to closing and ordering everything on the menu. You can’t change their minds.
The last time I was traveling and absolutely had no choice but to go into a Chiplote 20 minutes to closing (it was the only place for miles still open), I made sure to be flexible about only asking for things that hadn’t been put away already. I ended up getting what seemed like quad portions and free chips. Be nice to servers and they are nice to you.
There is always going to be a divide between people who have done restaurant closings and those that haven’t.
Naah every service that expects that “the client is king” philosophie have sentiment for all kind of people working in the same area.
I mean, I did retail jobs a few years ago, and still today when I go shopping or at restaurants or any other service, I always chose my time accordinlgy to not bother them to much… Because I know how people can be stupid assholes…
But from time to time you get some chill lovely creatures and that always brightened my day ☀️
that can be true, but we also grow a substantial amount of feed for agriculture usage, even if it’s not local to us. A lot of alf alfa being grown is exported.
It’s all dependent on whatevers cheapest at the end of the day. And regardless of this fact, a lot of energy is still lost in this process, cows are a significant contributor to climate change, ironically.
all of agriculture is only about 20% of our GHG emissions. cows are a fraction of that… there are definitely bigger issues.
as for the alfalfa, it’s also a small fraction of global crops. 2/3 of all crop calories go to humans with only 1/3 going to livestock… this includes about 70% of the weight of the global soy crop (after we have pressed it for oil), as well as fodder like corn stalks. we basically fed livestock trash and get food. it’s a pretty good deal.
I think it’s probably fine. it will work itself out when the workers of the world organize as a class, take possession of the means of production, abolish the wage system, and live in harmony with the Earth.
i think it’s a lot more likely to work out better in a highly decentralized system, i’m not much of a commie myself personally, as i prefer to live outside the bounds of normalcy, and unless i get a lot of say in the commie meetings i’m not sure i can justify existing in that society lol.
We recommend four widely applicable high-impact (i.e. low emissions) actions with the potential to contribute to systemic change and substantially reduce annual personal emissions: having one fewer child (an average for developed countries of 58.6 tonnes CO2-equivalent (tCO2e) emission reductions per year), living car-free (2.4 tCO2e saved per year), avoiding airplane travel (1.6 tCO2e saved per roundtrip transatlantic flight) and eating a plant-based diet (0.8 tCO2e saved per year). These actions have much greater potential to reduce emissions than commonly promoted strategies like comprehensive recycling (four times less effective than a plant-based diet) or changing household lightbulbs (eight times less).
Total aviation is responsible for about 2.5% of worldwide carbon emissions. That’s all air travel, private jets included. While it’s obviously very popular to focus on the luxuries of the rich, it just won’t be effective to focus on those when fighting climate change, let alone being a solution as you claimed.
What’s an easier solution, in your opinion? Getting the ultra wealthy to give up their yachts and jets (by getting rid of the ultra wealthy entirely, which also addresses the evils of capitalism), or convincing hundreds of millions of people to change just about everything about the diet they’ve been eating for tens of thousands of years?
That’s actually a good question. Considering the political power the ultra-rich wield, I’m not sure. But I think we should focus what brings the most bang for the buck.
TBF land clearance for grazing land is a catastrophic issue for the environment and going on in places like the Amazon rainforest.
Some ecosystems are naturally evolved to supporting grazing species like the grasslands of North America which was once home to millions of Buffallo but that’s not true of most land currently used for grazing.
It’s at a point where I’m all for a UN resolution to end land clearance in locations like the Amazon Rainforest, to be enforced by lethal means if necessary.
Billions of lives may depend on securing such important ecosystems.
The UN doesn’t even have any influence with the UN. Even if I supported lethal enforcement of environmental protections (which I do in many cases), the UN’s idea of enforcement is a kindly-worded letter. If the USA doesn’t back something the UN has no power. And the USA is one of literally only two countries in the entire world that don’t recognize access to healthy food as a human right.
It is, but many vegans also do really unhelpful things that are closer to trying to berate or shame people into not eating meat and it is obviously not effective.
Well, I guess I’m just not sure why you’re trying to give us advice about something you have zero experience with.
If I didn’t know better, I’d say that you don’t actually care what kind of approach is more convincing, and you’re just trying to tell us to shut up, or say things in a way that makes us easy to ignore.
You have no idea what you’re talking about at best, and realistically, you don’t even want us to be successful. So, thank you for your unsolicited advice on which tacts are unhelpful, but, just so you know, I will be promptly tossing it into the trash.
i doubt it, but i would assume you have some sort of anecdotal references somewhere, considering most living people can recall things and discussions with other people, especially more involved ones.
which is why i granted you the flexibility of answering outside of a quantitative fashion, as i don’t expect people to do unreasonable things.
You then accused me of moving the goalposts (which are my goalposts btw?) in order to make it more answerable, and then refused to answer presumably out of bad faith. I’m literally just curious about how you would conceptualize that.
I can’t tell you a quantity in a non-quantitative fashion. You want to know how many and the answer remains that I have no idea because I don’t keep count. I’m sorry you don’t like that answer, but it’s still the answer.
If you want to know how many and don’t accept that I have no idea, feel free to pick a number between zero and infinity and apply it as a rough estimate.
I can’t tell you a quantity in a non-quantitative fashion.
damn, what a philosopher you are. Fucking plato over here.
You want to know how many and the answer remains that I have no idea because I don’t keep count. I’m sorry you don’t like that answer, but it’s still the answer.
that’s fair, i would assume you have some ability to provide some level of estimation, but maybe that’s just my autism. Or maybe you just shitpost way too much to be able to care about anything you say on the internet lol.
if the original statement is useless (it’s not a question, so i’m not repeating it) then my question should be more useful in the context of that useless statement, considering i have a specific word removed that changes the entire meaning of the question.
The animal industry feeds the plants as much as the plants feed the animals. I’m not sure how vegans feel about synthetic fertilizer like miracle grow, but that’s what will have to be used in place of manure if the meat industry goes away.
Many of the organic crops grown use animal manure to fertilize the plants. I know you can use seaweed and other plants for compost(weeds are already composted back in via tilling, seaweed requires harvesting from the ocean or long distance shipping from farms), as well as cycling crops to prevent nutrient deficiency…
BUT manure doesn’t just add nutrients. It adds beneficial bacteria that helps keep the soil healthy and make the nutrients bioavailable to plants. It conditions the soil for water retention, and helps break up clay soil and add organic matter to sandy soil.
Will vegans keep animals just for manure? Or will organic lables on food be less important? Are we going to start scraping the forests for leaves to chop up an add to farm soil? That can’t be good for forests though. I guess I’m just confused about how to maintain large farms without access to large amounts of manure.
The ideal answer is compost, regenerative agriculture, and (better treated) human-sources waste.
Organic crop yields will almost certainly reduce a bit without animal waste fertilizer, but that is fine since crop consumption will fall by a greater amount due to not needing to feed a bunch of extra animals.
an interesting idea, but anything that decays and “composts” can be used as a fertilizer so.
This includes things like organic scraps, you don’t just have to use animal shit. Although it’s a pretty good one if you have access to it.
I think personally, we should move to a more decentralized food production system, to help alleviate some of the costs of industrial agriculture, which are pretty heavy.
Diseases spread via human feces which why we tend to not use it. We could sanitize it by processing it, but then it won’t carry the benefit of beneficial bacteria cultures so it’s not as good as animal supplied manures.
Hi friend, I propose you try an experiment: post a small handful of anonymous comments on the Internet, try to make them benign as possible but casually slip in an acknowledgement that you are vegan. Something along the lines of “God that recipe looks amazing, but I think I might swap out the beef broth for veggie broth as I am vegan” like I said the point of this experiment is to say something completely as benign and inoffensive as possible.
Once you post sit back and wait for the responses to roll in. You will likely find that while not every time, it is incredibly common for people to send you pictures of bacon, and an abundant of angry responses to the mere offhand mention of the word.
I sincerely wish it was a straw man fallacy, but it unfortunately is a exceedingly common response to the word.
hey non vegan vegan fun fact, you would be surprised at the sheer amount of consumption and productive the livestock sector of agriculture creates.
Likewise you could easily just respond to the last line with “you can’t take away my gas stove, i’m just going to burn gas lamps in my home now” and get a little bit eepy and sleepy due to all the buildup of combustion products inside your home.
I just woke up this morning to the news that six hostages had been found dead in a tunnel in Gaza, cause of death multiple gunshot wounds at close range.
I struggle to find sympathy for Palestine after reading a story like that.
Hamas deserve no sympathy - but most Palestinians are just people, like the Israelis, living under a regime that heavily peddles dehumanizing propaganda. If we had no sympathy for the Israelis because of the Palestinians intentionally killed by their hands, we’d be going down the same route that’s currently locking the two sides into a fucking pointless race towards genocide, that Israel seems likely to ‘win’.
Should foreigners lose sympathy for your people as a whole, if a group whose members hailed from it do something horrible? Its not like everyday people in Palestine have much choice about what goes on there.
Ironically enough, the group that seems to be doing the most to free Palestine from the rule of Hamas is the Israeli government.
And quite frankly, I’m sceptical of the claim Palestine is suffering under a dictatorship going against the will of the people, from what I’ve seen they have a lot of support from the population.
Not sure that setting up an enemy for the explicit purpose of using them to harm civilians, and then harming civilians in the process of taking them down, is really freeing anybody. As far as Israel’s actions more than a week or two past October 7 go, I’m disinclined to give them any sort of ‘credit’ for anything except the slaughter they’re overseeing.
Not just propping up, getting them into power in the first place. Israel manipulated the elections in Gaza to ensure that Hamas came to power so that they’d be able to frame their fight as being against extremists instead of the more reasonable who had been opposing Hamas (the name escapes me at the moment).
Fatah. Fatah agreed to a two-state solution and peaceful negotiation, and the Israeli prime minister got assassinated by far-right Zionist loons for his trouble. Ever since, every attempt by Fatah at good-faith negotiation has ended up as demands from Israel for a demonstration of fealty, followed by Israel not following through on its obligations anyway. For obvious reasons, this severely damaged Fatah’s credibility.
Also, Fatah is either hilariously or sickeningly corrupt, depending on whether you feel like laughing or crying on the given day. Hamas used that to worm their way in too, though now they’re no less corrupt.
It’s cool, I’m not your dad. I’m more speaking to the message than you, cause you’re just a name. I’m speaking to a bigoted, myopic message on a platform that I use. You can come or go.
I’m also over hearing people make excuses for mass murderers. Hamas are the government of Gaza, after all, this logic isn’t applied to other governments vs their own people.
No, I don’t think I will. I don’t think I’m the only one here who needs their views questioned. How can you possibly justify executing hostages in cold blood?
What does killing 40 thousand people, mostly innocent, do for your sympathies? Raping and torturing people in detention. For that matter, detention without charge? Turning off water to 2 million people? Preventing food and medical aid? No, sorry - the IDF claimed that a bad thing was done by Hamas… more genocide is clearly called for. You’re allowed to think whatever you like online, as you’ve asserted.
lemmy.world
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