Yknow they could fix a lot getting rid of textbooks…so uh yea. Hands on shiz for the classes that need them and less teaching people to regurgitate and still missing half the facts they ought to know from history. Esp in a effort to make us history look good…when no we were awful lmao
That was the point. Bc I have AuDHD and have always struggled with textbooks but no one has offered a accommodation(which most accommodations have been lackluster in how much help they provide) that worked for me. I wanted to be done with college by now, but so many things on top of the lack of hands-on stuff means I feel like I’ve learned absolutely nothing.
Well there’s a bunch of content some of my teachers have pulled from that’s just as good. Hell with history it’s a good idea not to have a state textbook anyway. Shiz omits so much it’s unreal. Or it tries to paint times before the Civil war as the best of times despite us yknow owning people o_O
I dissagree information written in a book is a perfectly valid way of conveying it. Obviously lies about history shouldn’t be taught but that’s not a problem with the medium
just doing tests as a memory exercise is also not good
Problem is there needs to be a alternative for audhd people like me. I can’t do textbooks and I’m tired of being forced to learn things exclusively through them without much practice.
That would’ve helped tremendously in my “logic and algorithms” class that it felt like never got any practical practice to see in code. So much of my computer classes based in the theory of it all without allowing me to attempt it in practical applications. It’s either that or not being based in reality on languages and technologies we need to learn. Like heck I want to get into tinkering too and there’s not much for that in schools where I wouldn’t have to have a better paying job to afford the materials myself.
Plus with things like history it’s bonkers how much stuff I’ve found out after the fact bc of living in the south. Esp since I know they tried to push states rights bs on us, and definitely make columbus seem like the Saint he’s not. Among other stuff bc people who shouldn’t be involved in education are dictating things like this.
Which they all ask me now that I’m trying to get through things what ones would be helpful and the usual suspects never were helpful. I’ve done research on other possible ones and always tell them I’ve got no clue what would be helpful bc searches don’t seem to line up but all these schools have no lists of ideas for that either…
Something I’ve found to have worked well in the past is phone breaks. It helps regulate phone usage and makes students far more likely to pay attention, myself included. The teachers that had the most success gave us phone breaks. Regulation and breaks > punishments.
That’s actually a pretty elegant solution. A teacher being against something that motivates the kids is a losing battle to begin with. Extending that olive branch stops that bridge from being burned, and there’s been all those studies that show prudent use of breaks increase productivity, including outside of that environment
Something like 15 minutes break between 45 minutes of each lecture/period would be probably the most logical solution (which many countries implement) so there is at least some chill time instead of just having to hurry class to class. What if you need to 9/11 the school toilet, grab the heavy-arse books from the locker, make death threats to NAFOs on Twitter, or get some xp in Runescape? Maybe kids will be less likely to goof off in class?
It’s always rude to not listen. So phones should not be allowed during class.
However, It’s rude not to allow breaks, growth, emergencies, and the fact that they are in fact, kids. They should be allowed to socialize, enjoy youth, and understand hierarchy/respect. So to earn respect, you must respect first.
Let the kids have their phones/computers as that is the modern world we live in. They will have technology. Don’t discourage it just because some people learned “you won’t always have a calculator in your pocket”. Well, now you do, so rather than ban it, teach them to USE IT!!! Just… properly.
Even when in school, phone helped me quite a bit with education. Having a way to do a quick fact-check is invaluable.
Now as I’m finishing getting my degree such devices became an inseparable part of the process.
Yes, you may not always listen to what’s being said whilst using them, but lets be frank, you wouldn’t be listening to those parts either way.
School education in a lot of places is fundamentally flawed. It’s extremely difficult to learn when you’re expected to absorb information just by listening and writing.
I’d agree with OPs sentiment here, off-topic smartphone usage isn’t the cause for worse education, but instead is a result of poor engagement in the first place. Should people be more engaged in the topic then suddenly smartphones start being used as a studying tool and not for entertainment. There are many ways of achieving that, but that’s a whole different story.
I think the biggest issue isn’t letting kids use a tool, it’s getting kids to do the work.
I recently worked with a bunch of kids in college, all stem majors, who couldn’t Google effectively or do basic math in their heads. It’s not a matter of “don’t let them use a resource” it’s that many people won’t try.
Limiting technology isn’t cruelty, it’s vital for learning many skills. Number sense can’t be taught by a taking a picture and writing an answer.
I agree whole-heartedly. As someone who needed to learn the hard way that knowing the shortcut doesn’t always help with the work, I’m very much in favor of teaching kids the proper way first.
Also, if kids need to be “fact-checking” their class, that’s indicative of a whole different issue.
Because I don’t think most kids have learnt even the smallest bit about proper research methodology to be able to fact-check things. If that little bit they know is enough to disprove something in class, that teacher needs a stern talking to about the bs they peddle.
“fact-checking” was a bit of a crude way of putting it on my part. I’m not native, so there could’ve misused it.
(Went a bit overboard with a wall of text again, but of well)
Although it wasn’t without the fact-checking in it’s normal sense. Take “English as a foreign language”, for example. One teacher will say the word is pronounced one way, the other will say its different. Who’s right? Let’s check Cambridge dictionary. Although it isn’t always teacher’s fault as a professional. Sometimes you just forget things no matter how well you know them.
The other part that I may have failed to convey is looking information up, be it a math formulae, a word, some sort of rule, name or a date.
It’s way quicker than going through your books and is actually not a bad way to remember something. You either have a tab left off or you’re seeing it when using the search, which makes you remember that you did look that up a while back. It’s very minor, but because you’re still being reminded about it from time to time, the information sticks. Essentially you’re doing unintentional passive memorisation.
That’s why I think that maybe not in primary, but definetly in secondary and high school banning technology is not the way to go about it. If the student uses it for entertainment during class, they won’t suddenly start studying if you prohibit them from usining it. You’re essentially solving a non-issue, because the majority of students aren’t even using phones during classes (Well, maybe to cheat on tests, but that’s hurting the quality of assessment and not education itself).
Banning phones is easy, but it’s also the least impactful thing you could to to “improve” educational system. It would be of more sognificance you were to reduce classes to 8 pupils, lessen teacher’s paperwork, introduce new active teaching practices, reward students for persuing their endevours and so on. But that’s difficult, banning phones is easy and brings you more polical approval.
Are there schools that don’t teach calculator usage? Even 10-15 years ago German schools (at least in the states I looked at) had the option to teach math with either basic calculators, scientific calculators, or computer algebra systems in grades 9-13 (I think) with most schools picking scientific calculators even back then. I would expect that to have moved into earlier grades and more advanced devices nowadays.
I meam, i remember even in 5th grade nearly 20 years ago them telling us “you wont always have a calculator in your pocket” and this was happening when vell phones were becoming mainstream enough that some of us did have flip phones
Neither one really has anything to do with the other.
In fact, I’d say getting rid of phones could help improve motivation because when students are more focused on school, they’re more motivated and perform better.
This meme was made by a middle schooler who doesn’t understand the higher-level decisions being made by educators.
I mean I’m not that extreme lmao that’s also a safety issue. Kids will be kids, they will not sit quietly all school day and be total lesson sponges lol
How much of a safety issue would it really be? Cell phones didn’t really become a thing for my age range until high school. If there was an emergency, there was a landline in the classrooms.
No kidding. Not to sound like an old fogey but we did really well without them for both “emergencies” and “fact checking”. I can only see them primarily as a distraction.
Yeah, it would suck for the staff, but I don’t think it would be that much more unsafe. I don’t think it’s a good idea, but I don’t think it’s particularly unsafe.
I already did unpack it: “Smart phones are a distraction for social media 99% of the time.”
Nor did I say the word “just”. You’re both ignoring what I did say and inserting your own words. They can be distractions with you know social media. But also back in my day they taught us Word, Excel, programming. You had a class with that. You didn’t need it in your pocket 24/7.
Yes you can find a way to goof off in any class instead of doing your work. Isn’t that the whole point of this discussion? To remove ways to goof off, you know, smartphones. Ban them in class. And just like you can catch people playing video games in computer class, you can catch people using their phone in class. Just because some people will break rules doesn’t mean we throw our hands up and say ok then no rules.
You’re really comparing this to teaching abstinence? Wow. And then you rage against something as basic as rules, blaming rules for what seems like everything you think is bad. Ok then. Cheers.
I don’t think y’all realize that not a single staff member or administrator or any employee of the school would be able to use a phone either (other than landlines I guess?). Schools aren’t just full of students lol
You mean that thing I specifically mentioned? Yes, I realize that. Would it be inconvenient? Yes, it absolutely would. Would it suck to work in that environment? Again, yes it would. If I’m just thinking about safety, I’m not sure it’s that much more unsafe.
It’s incredibly unsafe when you live in a society built around smartphones/tablets for health and safety tools to remove said smartphones.
But is it? Landlines can make the same emergency calls. A Faraday cage also doesn’t mean you can’t have an internal wifi that reaches outside that the staff can connect to, or even the students can connect through with a proxy controlling their connection.
I agree it’s impractical. But it doesn’t mean laptops and phones suddenly don’t work. They can still work within the cage and you can poke holes through it with a landline and a proxy to control traffic in and out.
Ultimately, it’s definitely not worth the engineering and the effort. I just don’t think that safety is the reason it is impractical.
I’ve done active shooter drills in the military. The first thing you do is cover the window in the door, which is often by the front of the room where the phone is. The beauty of a landline is that it doesn’t move. You can dial out to 911 and they know exactly what building you’re in without you having to even tell them. The teacher doesn’t need to hang out at the front of the room.
What is different? Cover the windows to hide the number of people, hide, and barricade. You’re also very conveniently ignoring the rest of the comment that addressed your concern. Care to try again?
I’m not a boomer. And I’m in no way advocating the use of a Faraday cage. Maybe read what is actually written instead of what you think was written. Hell I work in tech trying to get people up with the times…
No, but the attention span kids have these days seem to be shortening.
I hear this a lot but have yet to see evidence/sources from anyone. It’s just “look around you.” I don’t find it particularly compelling. I didn’t exactly sit quietly as a kid myself.
It’s a pretty well known fact that constant tech decreases attention spans, in both children and adults. How many times have we been on Lemmy/Reddit on the browser and picked up our phone to… check Lemmy/Reddit?
That appears to be a quickly referenced theory by one (yes qualified) person on one blog post without a study behind it. I could also argue that kids generally have short attention spans but social media just allows them to indulge in it more, and they will of course prioritize attention to that over other things. That is not the same as “it shortens their attention spans.” We need at least one study here or at least something more substantive than a one-liner linking social media and decreasing ones attention span. I’m not sure if you noticed, but blog is actually focusing on how to reach kids and strategies to get them to pay attention. It has one throw away non-cited line about social media shortening attention spans.
I should also point out that I also did a cursory Google search before writing the previous comment, and that was the only post I saw as well. The reason you selected it is because there was no other decent hit when you searched I imagine.
Let me be clear here, the only reason I am sort of arguing about this is because there is a really bad propensity for older people to say something is wrong with younger people. We see it over and over again. I think social media is actually very harmful to kids, but I have yet to see anything that shows it actually diminishes ones attention span. And the reason I really don’t like that claim is because it seems to be just another variation of “kids these days.”
I’m not them, but while ADHD is a problem, social media and the dopamine quick-hit style that internet content has taken has had a noted effect in reducing attention spans.
I mean, I’m doing quite well having gone though school without smart devices and 100% would have never gotten straight As if I had one when I was a kid. And I’m every type of ADHD you can be diagnosed as…
The thing about smartphones and the internet in general is that there is a lot of crap out there. Sure kids may read more, but what they read matters. If they’re reading websites that deny the Holocaust or give bogus health advice like bleach curing autism or things like that, that’s not good. Without education, how are they going to know what they read on their phone is garbage?
Well, you can quickly search up some information. I don’t remember what it was, but I remember that once in middle school teacher said something I wasn’t quite sure about, but also I wouldn’t ask if I wasn’t more sure. So I looked it up, seeing that I was right, I asked if it rather wasn’t meant to be that other thing, he checked too and indeed he was wrong.
Also, my mind often wanders off. And it may happen that I suddenly can’t remember something. Could just be some word I could look up on my phone in less than a minute. Option B: Keep thinking about it till the rest of the class. I can’t stop thinking about that until I either remember or find it.
Next, spine. I am currently in high school. Phones are allowed here. Any time. So, I utilized my scanner and digitized one 500 or so page book I couldn’t find on the internet, and then used it as PDF instead of a physical book. It is less likely that I would forget my phone. I wish schools would have options for e-ink tablets instead of having to carry many heavy physical books. That used to be problem mostly in elementary school and middle school. Same goes for note taking.
Obviously, the last example can be easily solved by modernization.
Fast talking teachers. I can’t write that fast. I mean, I can, but then I can’t decipher my handwriting, which is already hard anyway. Voice recorder is a quick solution. Obviously, it is easier to look through notes than audio, but IT IS NOT MEANT TO BE A REPLACEMENT FOR NOTES, just a help.
But do take that with a pinch of salt. Especially in elementary school, I used to be one of those weird kids who greatly preferred being liked by the teacher over having friends. So even though I had a phone at the time, I never used it during classes because teachers disliked it.
But at least during breaks it should be allowed. Otherwise kids will find much more dangerous ways to entertain themselves.
I mean, comparing class with active kids throwing stuff around and ones just sitting and playing on their phones, I’d take the second. Cyber bullying may be hard to detect though, but it’s not like schools care either way.
If you want to teach kids how to look up information, you can create spaces for that. They don’t need unrestricted access to their smart phones to accomplish that throughout the day. Hell you can relax your policies as they grow up and show the maturity to handle having a smart phone in the classroom. If schools want to do that, I am all in favor of it. But they would have to start early and build a system, which is a lot to ask of already overworked educators.
I am not talking about unrestricted access either. It depends on age, but they could always just ask the teacher if they’re allowed to look up something. And also I don’t see how disallowing phones during breaks helps education. It’s meant to be a break.
Bugging you until you remember? You write it so that you can’t forget and so it stops bugging you.
Bugging you because you need that info itch scratched right now? Aka instant gratification. Then you have to learn to not need instant gratification. Seriously, it’s another skill.
Another skill is not caring if someone has a solution other than yours. It’d take half the time to write it down as it would just to look up the answer.
All this is spoken like an entitled bratty immature kid. (No offense, it’s just your age and you’ll grow out of it)
There’s a reason why you can get a ticket or be charged with distracted driving while you’re on your phone and behind the wheel of a car. IT IS A DISTRACTION. FULL STOP.
This phone issue has never affected me personally. I am defending OP and others.
I am not talking about using the phone all the time for some stupid thing. It gives you access to a lot of information when needed.
Also if you trust kids with making life changing decisions, this is unfair.
Also sorry if I sounded as you described. I only started carrying the phone with me since I was 15. I was too worried about breaking it (it’s not cheap thing). That makes finding positive points (that would apply to younger kids) a bit harder.
Edit: Also, don’t be worried, I would almost never voice my opinions in real life.
Spoken like an introverted someone who HAS ALREADY been affected socially in a negative way by their cell phone use.
The entitled and bratty part of your comments = when people tell me not to use my phone I simply DONT use it or bring it. What’s the problem exactly? You want access to an encyclopedic knowledge in class? You don’t have a laptop or computer in the room you can use ?
Maybe you use your phone only for the most strictly academic things, but most people don’t.
Finally, I don’t trust kids to make life changing decisions. See all the high schoolers who got suckered into a worthless degree from the University of Phoenix. It’s very fair to take the reigns from people who can’t control themselves and their impulses.
Spoken like an introverted someone who HAS ALREADY been affected socially in a negative way by their cell phone use.
Can’t disagree with this. I got a tablet when I was 8. With unrestricted access. On the positive note, it did help me learn quite a lot of stuff. Like English.
The entitled and bratty part of your comments = when people tell me not to use my phone I simply DONT use it or bring it. What’s the problem exactly? You want access to an encyclopedic knowledge in class? You don’t have a laptop or computer in the room you can use ?
No problem, really. If someone wanted to search up something during class, teachers could just allow it, and generally they did. Except when I was in grade 9 and the school decided to prohibit even just having them at school, as if it were grenades. Some teacher would always just collect all into a bucket and return at the end of the day.
When we had free substituted classes, sometimes they would tell us something like “Sorry, I’d allow you phones now, but if I did I could have problems from it.” So clearly they would punish teachers for that. That’s just crazy.
And computers aren’t in every class. Even if they are, they might not always work. Now we use our phones even to do exams sometimes. But, yeah, school isn’t even mandatory for me anymore, so it’s already different.
Finally, I don’t trust kids to make life changing decisions. See all the high schoolers who got suckered into a worthless degree from the University of Phoenix. It’s very fair to take the reigns from people who can’t control themselves and their impulses.
I wasn’t even talking about such late decisions. For example, when I was 10 I was given the decision between going into class A or class B since I had good enough results for A. A was class for a little more talented kids. They even had some additional subjects. Well, my dad discouraged me from going to class A. He told me “There won’t be any normal kids. I’d choose B if I were you.” So I did. I regret. I could have gotten to a better school later on.
Some explanation of those classes:
A - Talented
C and D - sport classes (basketball and hockey respectively)
B - everything else
Next, when I was 14, I told my psychologist about my living conditions. Including photos of how our home looks like. She told me that she could call social services. Then asked me if I agreed. I was scared, so I said no. I regret, once again.
And something that’s there always, choosing high school when you’re 15.
I am not sure how it works across different school systems. In Slovakia, they are focused just on 1 particular field of study determining where you’ll be for the rest of your life. 3 year fields are without graduation (e.g.: various mechanics and plumbers). 4 year and 5 year fields are with graduation, meaning you can go to college/university.
I’ve had a few classmates who only chose particular field because their friends were going there too, even though they weren’t interested in it.
Well, by their teenage years, why not all the reasons adults need smartphones fully accessible? Looking up information from authoritative sources? Emergency contact? Coordinating schedules for office hours?
Schools often simultaneously demand more from children than workplaces do adults, and give them less opportunity to excel.
I’m not saying work-inappropriate phone use should be accepted, but taking them away entirely is downright irresponsible. Just like schools who still demand students write on a notebook instead of using a laptop. Raise your hand if you had RSI-related issues for a decade or more after high school? We old people tend to forget how bad school used to be (and can be) for physical and mental health AND for learning.
Heh, “Motivate”, sounds mostly impossible. At least with some subjects. But maybe there could be some improvements. Here’s some of my dumb and likely useless thoughts:
If it’s in your competence, allow phones during breaks. I believe that could make classes without them much easier.
Fresh air: Helps alot. I don’t know why some teachers absolutely hate open windows. All you can do on those classes is try to not fall asleep with your heart pounding.
Allow water during classes: Similar to above, dehydration helps no one.
Engage with students: Try to have conversations with them, give them questions, let them give questions to you (on topic). I’ve had a few teachers that would just do 45 minute monotone monologues.
If possible, give some demonstration or real life use examples. This works well especially with chemistry and physics.
Positive and negative points: For example, 5 pluses may be A, and 5 minuses F. I prefer the system where pluses and minuses null out each other, otherwise a plus may make your grades worse, leading to lack of activity. Someone not paying attention or not knowing answer to questions, minus. Someone being positively active during classes, answering questions, plus. You can decide what makes plus and what minus and how many are needed for the grade.
Quick activities (like optional tests): Math teachers did this since elementary school. Teachers would give a math problem and some time to solve it. First x students to solve it correctly got a good grade, others could get pluses. For example, first 3 students to solve a math problem within 15 minutes get A, the next students get a plus. Those who did nothing get nothing. Like a small optional exam. It makes it worth being prepared. Just don’t make the window too small, like “First student to solve this within 5 minutes gets A, next ones get nothing”, because most will just give up.
Announce exams in advance: This gives students time to study before each exam. The likelihood that someone will study AFTER a surprise exam is quite low.
Give option to re-do an exam: Got a bad grade? Don’t give up yet. Put in some more effort to get a better grade. I’ve seen different approaches on this. Sometimes it would replace previous grade, sometimes you’d just get another. Sometimes unconditionally, sometimes only if it’s better. I’d choose a second grade conditionally. If it replaced the grade, you wouldn’t see as many studying for first exam, relying on “fixing it later”. Conditionally because if there’s a chance of getting worse grade, I may just as well not try, just in case.
Movies or shows: Applies to foreign language classes. If it catches their interest, they may not even realize they’re learning. You could occasionally do that as a reward. Reward = motivation. Tip: Subtitles may be helpful. The problem with this is finding something universally interesting.
Try to not treat the whole class as 1 person: Punishing whole class for actions of 1 student will make YOU more disliked than that student.
Respect: I don’t know how you could do this. But some teachers may gain respect among students. I believe this is more valuable than using power. But again, no idea what you could do for that.
Outside?: My middle school geography teacher did her classes outside during summer. Nothing changed about those classes, it was just outside. Better environment.
Minimize homework: Homework is one good way to absolutely hate a subject. This could be partially replaced with optional projects. If it’s optional, it doesn’t feel as bad anymore.
Ask students for feedback: There’s a small chance you may get some useful answers.
But you probably can’t do much past trying to be nice. Biggest problem is the extra unnecessary information being taught, but if you can’t determine what precisely will be useful in the future, you can’t know what to omit. Missing knowledge is probably worse.
You must be LARPing. You’re far too much of a caricature to be real. You gonna lecture me about my bootstraps next? Pen an op ed about how “nobody wants to work anymore”?
If kids are already breaking because they don’t have support to hold their hands through 11th grade history class, if it’s too hard to get up and get to school everyday, pay attention, do your homework, etc without special attention from adults …. I mean …. Life is really gonna kick your ass later
Yeah because as we all know, teenagers (14-18 for high school mind you, not sure why you’re specifically saying 11th graders?) are emotionally mature, rational actors who are ready to take on the world with no emotional support or direction.
It’s just hyperbole to illustrate a point. I don’t know why people are so literal online.
I’m not just talking about 11th graders lol
I’m saying that the time to need emotional support from your teachers happens much younger. When you’re 14-18 you’re learning to be an adult. If you don’t learn how to manage yourself emotionally, or provide your own means of motivations, etc you’re not developing into adulthood on a pace that should be expected of you.
If your emotional development is too far delayed, it’s likely to cause you suffering the longer you take to learn it.
I did all this shit, anyway. Twenty years ago. Sacrificed everything on the altar of the almighty A. What did it get me? A master's degree I'm too depressed and anxious to ever use and a long-standing hatred of the system. Now I speak out because nobody listens to the people who are still in the system. The people directly affected by it are easy to ignore. Now I'm the demographic people listen to whether they should or not, so I'm saying what I wish people had said when it was me.
“Oh no, the teacher isn’t in tune with my emotions, I’m so hard done by, how can I be expected to excel if everything and everyone doesn’t revolve around me? Wahhhh”
GTFO, and yes be strong, don’t be weak. The world is a dangerous fucking place.
I don’t know about you, but my school did the best it could. Some adults might even say what you said about society in general - infinite resources to harm and burden, etc. People usually try their best, your teachers too. Maybe you’ll grow up to be a teacher and you’ll be better at it than the ones you had. Good luck!
I grew up and became a librarian instead, because I genuinely enjoy helping people find the things they are interested in, but couldn't lend my energy to a system that doesn't care about the that they are interested in part, among other flaws.
American society has always been HIGHLY punitive with an almost non existent interest in actually solving a problem. Even the most “liberal” of us if you mention plugging the social/economic holes that lead to massive crime spikes get all
“Mayyybbeeee I guuueeeesssssss but like what you can’t just NOT throw the book at them and ruin their life forever?!?! How else will they stop doing crime if we don’t effectively take away their ability to earn a valid living via criminal charges?!?!”
Maybe the US could incorporate the silent kids to parole with guns and motivate the other kids to learn. It would be a win-win-win situation wouldn’t it?
If schools only focused on what students were motivated to learn, I’m not sure schools would really be accomplishing much. Not to say that schools shouldn’t foster motivation in students. Just that technology, especially social media, is very effective at distracting people.
That aren’t motivated and are bored as hell; the average motivation level for schools where I live is a 2.9… out of 10. If kids aren’t motivated and they have devices on them, what do you think they would do in class?
They would probably be more likely to stare at their phones instead of learning if they did.
I do think that having students sit at desks for hours at a time is not an effective way of teaching. Giving students different ways of learning is beneficial and more likely to motivate them. But that usually is more work and more expensive to do.
In an ideal world, every student would have an individualized, self paced learning program with a dedicated teacher. Unfortunately, that’s not the case for nearly any student.
I would be interested to see how a self paced learning program with a dedicated teacher would end up if it was focused on embracing getting sidetracked. I know I’ve sat through history classes in the past and had semi-unrelated questions I wanted to research or ask about but didn’t want to waste people’s time. In situations like that I would prefer to have a computer to get a quick answer versus pondering it in the back of my head.
There must be some truth to an idea that you don’t learn as much from an answer from a question you didn’t ask.
Man, I remember a couple teachers that encouraged randomly asking questions like that, and the whole class was really engaged. It was very rare but an amazing environment to learn in. I feel bad that there’s so many people that never got to have those sort of teachers.
It’s like the educational equivalent of a gateway drug. Some of the electives I took like programming really encouraged it and that’s what kept me interested even afterwards with subpar instructors.
I think at a certain point, you should be able to drop math as a subject and take programming instead. There’s no shortage of math concepts in programming that still require understanding of underlying concepts, but I can easily say if I had that option in school, I’d have learned way more in a programming class than I ever did in math.
I mean programming is a way to get someone engaged and to some degree there can be creativity. It would almost be like a more topical and realistic version of a word problem
I had a history teacher in school that liked me even though I barely paid attention in class. I was bored in the class itself, but loved history and would spend the entire period just reading the textbook because I found it interesting. So even though I didn’t pay attention I would still ace assignments like nobody else in there.
I was usually a couple chapters past the class at any given time.
That’s just how school has always been. Students don’t care because they take education for granted. It was the same 30 years ago, it is the same now. You’re not supposed to have fun. You’re supposed to learn so you can get a job that you enjoy.
Banning phones in class is the bare minimum. It was not that long ago that they smacked your hands with sticks when you didn’t listen.
Because during breaks is the time to either get some energy out or go socialize. A TON of social cues are learned during these breaks. And if they’re getting their dopamine fix from their phones during the breaks, you think that they will be MORE inclined to pay attention in class? The answer is no.
Like the other guy said, pay attention in school. More is learned in school than just the course work.
Take it from an old man, as you grow up friends drift apart. People change, you meet new people. You’ll always cherish those friendships you had back then, but you will never all be together in one place like you are now. People will have jobs, families, girlfriends, spouses, commitments. I love my best friend to death, we’ve been friends since jr high, but I see him once a year now.
Take advantage of the time you have with them. Go to the gas station and get a soda that’s too big, walk around town aimlessly, do boring kid stuff. You’ll have all the time in the world to be online here later, late nights writing comments at 10pm, thinking fondly about doing stupid teenager stuff with your friends 20 years ago
Yup, I haven’t seen one of my friends in person in years because he’s in the army. Another one lives right here in town but has a whole family to take care of, but every single time he’s asked me to do anything with him has been a bad time, and I kinda feel bad about it. The rest of my friends have mostly either moved elsewhere or I’ve just not kept in touch.
So yeah, even people that I kept in touch with for some time after I got out of school have basically not been in my life for some time now. I’ve got a few friends that I usually hang with online, but all my school mates have basically gone their separate ways.
I won’t say whether it’s better or worse to ban phones during break, but I do think it is worthwhile to point out something that you might not know, given that you’re still in school.
School is most likely the last time in your life to have actual, true friends. In college, and especially in work, your friends will almost certainly be fair weather friends, friends made out of convenience rather than anything substantial.
I get that school sucks. I still think so. But there’s some benefits to how schools are run that you won’t recognize until you’re already out of school. Your social life will absolutely get tougher and you’ll be more isolated. So, my advice is to take the bad with the good. Have some fun with your friends in-person, because that’s really never going to happen again. Please don’t waste your school life on your phone.
Nice reply. You made me reconsider that part about phones during breaks.
It is too late for me, but I believe it is for the better. If I made friends with the kind of classmates I always had, I believe they would have bad influence on me. For example, last year the class’ main character, 17 at the time, found someone’s shoes in locker room, unattended. He decided to piss into them. Also popular is weed, vaping, alcohol, making mess in places like McDonald’s (like mixing a burger with cola and spilling it all over the table…), damaging school property on purpose, etc…
While not friends, I do have good memories about some teachers that will last. My elementary school teacher was quite nice. She would always listen if I wanted to talk about something, even if it was relatively nonsense. If I found something interesting, I was always hyped to tell her. Basically like a mom should be.
In middle school, my physics, chemistry and math teachers were nice.
You could always have some conversation with physics teacher, whether school related or not. He always kept happy mood, at least on the outside.
The math teacher did similarly, but I also appreciate how hard he tried to get us to learn at least something. He got to the point where he shown us the exact questions that were to be on exam. It didn’t help. Now I feel quite sad about him, you could sometimes see him on the verge of crying. Especially during and after the COVID-19 lockdown. He tried hard to make math more interesting.
Chemistry teacher was also nice. I could talk with him about problems I had at home. Being able to tell about your problems to someone is nice. Also, when the COVID-19 lockdown came, we had online learning. I didn’t have internet access, and only got an old laptop with broken keyboard from neighbor and I didn’t have money for a replacement keyboard. It really surprised me, but he gave me money to fix that laptop. I don’t know if he also intended that, but it made me feel like I had to put more effort into studying. I won’t forget that.
Most of my high school teachers are nice though. Actually there’s just 1 I don’t like. That is a nice change since till high school it was just the 4 aforementioned that I liked.
You’re not supposed to have fun. You’re supposed to learn so you can get a job that you enjoy.
Hi, elder leftist here. The whole education system is already set up to produce obedient workers. If you don’t believe me, ask yourself how much time is spent teaching kids to organise effectively, or advocate for issues they care about. Or even just build good communication with their classmates, like how to react to bullying.
All that matters is to follow the authority, don’t question the rules, put the things in your head that they give you and nothing else.
The reason kids are bored in school is because the current system doesn’t address the real problems they have, so why should they care about the system.
Their “real” problems are at most only real in that moment, and rarely end up mattering later, but even so, the responsibility falls on the students and their parents, not the school. School is here for you to learn the basics so that you can function as an adult. Your field of interest and its focus comes after that. More often than not, whether the student can pursue their interests depends on if the core education was sufficient or not.
But also, learning how to organize, identifying and addressing bullying, communication and encouraging study of personal interest were top priorities in all schools I went to from elementary throughout highschool, but then again, I grew up in Sweden and cannot speak for other countries. Nevertheless, students (me included) always complained about school.
You can increase motivation to learn by making lessons more engaging even if it’s a subject they’re not personally interested in. But making lessons more interesting and engaging is not easy and we can’t expect all teachers to have the skills and resources to do the research and development needed to produce lesson plans that are really interesting. I think it could be improved by putting more money into developing interesting lesson plans centrally and distributing the materials to teachers to follow instead of just producing dry curriculums. Teachers need support.
I have literally built a dungeons and dragons campaign to learn statistics, and had some students on their phones. I’m not a dancing bear, and having a dopamine panic-button makes it near impossible to engage with anything challenging (I struggle with it too and know it’s an anxiety crutch, but it’s super maladaptive).
I fully support kicking kids off their phones in class, I don’t think any lesson no matter how engaging can compete with that. I’m not supposed to be on my phone during meetings, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to ban phones from class. I was just commenting that work can be done to make lessons more engaging when phones aren’t involved. There’s of course a limit to what you can do, and some subjects are just inherently harder to get kids into, like statistics. But seriously good on you for doing that. I’m sure that while it didn’t have perfect engagement, it was far better than just teaching it to the book.
Just curious, is there a place you can share that lesson plan to other teachers? It’d be a shame for all that work you did to not get to be used in other classrooms as well.
To be honest, sometimes I may just stare at black screen if I have low battery just to avoid talking with people. It serves the same purpose as headphones, just a bit worse.
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