I was downvoted before for suggesting the Pinetab is not a viable Android or iPad replacement. That thing doesn’t even have a working wifi driver yet, you have to plug in a dongle just to connect to wifi. I’d love to have good smart devices running Linux one day, but we’re not there yet.
Not from “the west” from “the rich”. There are rich people in every type of economy that use their money to gain more power. One of the many ways that is done is with propaganda to convince those with less that the rich in power are not the problem.
Not every economic system, economic systems that place significant barriers against ballooning of individual wealth off exploitation see less disparity, and thus less of an impact of money on politics. Beaurocracy becomes a new kind of power currency, which is why much of the Politburo in the USSR was corrupt, though its worth noting that their disparity levels were lower than currently in the Russian Federation.
The Russian Federation’s “Oligarchs” are a spooky word for Capitalists that dodges the fact that they are Capitalists that took advantage of the collapse of the USSR to gain massive outsized power and wealth. The Russian Federation is Capitalist, not Socialist.
Not every economic system, economic systems that place significant barriers against ballooning of individual wealth off exploitation see less disparity, and thus less of an impact of money on politics.
You say not every economic system, but then you say less disparity, less impact.
Less disparity means there is still disparity. Less impact means there is still impact.
Because like I said, as long as there are human beings who want more power, there will be a struggle in any economic systems to prevent disparity.
That is because it isn’t the economic system that deregulates or undermines protections.
It is those who seek more power who deregulate and undermine protections.
And those people exist in all types of economic systems.
Even capitalist America had a point in history where disparity was low and the middle class and lower class thrived.
That is no longer the case because of those who removed regulations and changed the laws to suite themselves. And again, those people exist in every type of economy.
I did not say you could not eliminate the influence of money on politics, did I? You did. I countered it, and now you’re implying that it’s impossible to completely get rid of.
You can account for bad actors and power-seekers woth egalitarian distribution of power and a prevention against gaining in power.
What hierarchy? Statist hierarchy? That’s why the goal of Socialism is Communism, and nobody has reached Communism yet. Do you think we live at the end of history?
I think it can be achieved because it’s based in logical progression of real systems. If I can take your exact same argument and use it against Capitalism in pre-revolution France, with a similar lack of logical foundation, I don’t think your argument holds any water. It’s more like a strainer than a bowl.
If it just needs to be “based in logical progression of real systems” to achieve the goal, then why has it not succeeded yet after centuries of existence?
If I can take your exact same argument and use it against Capitalism in pre-revolution France
My argument that disparity is caused by people pursuing power and not economic systems?
Please explain how your example of France proves my argument wrong.
Here’s perhaps the funniest use of your own terrible argument: you believe that humans cannot land on Mars, because it hasn’t happened yet, at least if you’re at all logically consistent. You also believe the iPhone 20 will never exist, of course.
See why your argument that “if this is what happens over time, why hasn’t it happened now?” is horrible? You make no actual analysis, in fact, you run from analysis.
Just because something hasn’t happened yet doesn’t mean it is guaranteed to happen in the future.
I didn’t think that I needed to explain that to you. I was wrong. Sorry.
I am not saying things can’t happen if they haven’t happened yet.
I am saying if Socialism and Communism have existed for centuries and that whole time they have had disparity. What reason is there to believe that disparity cannot exist in socialist or communist economies?
I didn’t move the goalpost, Communism as a concept is a Stateless, Classless, Moneyless society that can be achieved after Socialism has built the groundwork for it. It hasn’t been achieved yet, because there have been no developed Socialist states yet, and Communism is a global, international system. It takes a long time to get there, it isn’t just something that poofs into existence.
It’s a Stateless, Classless, moneyless society. It’s hard to build, but it’s possible to build towards, and will take time and development to get there.
Wendell Potter spent decades scaring Americans. About Canada. He worked for the health insurance industry, and he knew that if Americans understood Canadian-style health care, they might… like it. So he helped deploy an industry playbook for protecting the health insurance agency.
…i am confident you don’t know shit. I say this with respect, tho it doesn’t sound respectful.
Because the way you replied to the barest possibility that you are ignorant or misled is to post “no i’m not” instead of being curious and searching for what you might have missed. If you’re not curious, and you don’t consider yourself propagandized you are exactly this meme, whererever you may be from.
Yes. You see, if most of the profits aren’t taken from all the people making them and given to like, just a few people to keep for themselves, we’d have mass hysteria!
I shudder to think of what the workers might get up to if they had more of the money they created, or more of a voice in their workplace. They might start doing dangerous things that benefitted themselves instead of the stonks, and that idea is just disgusting to me
Europe uses the word socialism differently. It’s a difference in how the words are used and the time they are used. If we consider socialism shared responsibility, we have it America in many ways but we are hesitant to expand it. That’s because of our fear of large government power.
If we me socialism as the workers owning the means of production. Well no country does that. Normally it’s the government owning everything and the workers being abused such as the Soviet Union or Cuba. That’s the large governments Americans dislike.
Yeah, socialism isn’t taxing the rich, it is or at least have always led to brutal dictatorships because the real one is just communism with extra steps.
Social-democracy on the other hand is wonder for the people (see Sweden etc) in real life.
I’m a conservative and read a wonderful article on why conservatives should be leading the charge to a social democracy like Sweden. It really changed my views on why we should be skippering certain endeavors. Just neither party here has really embraced the basic concept.
An example was national health care allowed people to be more entrepreneurial since that is a large risk to not have insurance here.
Yeah y’all really don’t want to end up like us. We’re not the land of the free. The streets are most definitely not paved with gold. We’re just a giant ponzi scheme.
It’s actually insane how many of our institutions are actually based on pyramid schemes. No wonder we all use it as the symbol for conspiracy because it is a huge portion of how anything runs in the US. Cover the costs by convincing more people to join in at a less beneficial or profitable step down the pyramid and hope someone else will be coming behind you for you to take from as well.
No kidding. Their “fix” every year is to either fill all the potholes with asphalt, which the spring rains promptly loosen and get kicked out, or a thin “repaving” layer, which gets destroyed by the summer monsoons. I’m convinced Caltrans is a jobs program for people that can’t get a job otherwise, because those guys can’t seem to get anything done correctly.
Start a social media account for pics of the pothole. Keep tagging city officials in it. Call or email someone every time you’re reminded that the pothole exists so they will be too. Make the city rue the day they gave Cave Johnson lem… Potholes.
Yep. We should have told the colonies of Georgia and Carolina to fuck off, and we’ll get around to conquering them, after we kicked The King out of the other 11 colonies.
If one person had voted differently during The Continental Congress, we would have started abolishing slavery
There are elements of capitalism there, but I wouldn’t call it a capitalist economy. Capitalism requires that private individuals own the means of production. But, in Russia does anybody outside Putin’s inner circle really own anything?
Yes, absolutely. The Russian Federation is the direct result of a collapsing Socialist system in the hands of Capitalists, just because fewer and fewer people own things doesn’t mean it isn’t a direct result of Capitalization of the economy.
The USSR wasn’t really socialist at its core, and the new Russia really isn’t capitalist at its core.
In the former system, the theory was that the people / workers owned the means of production. The reality was that it was the leader and those close to him who really “owned” them in the sense that they had power over them. It was all about who you knew in that system. In a true socialist system, it should have been up to the people to make decisions, but in the USSR it was up to the party’s elites, and the people just had to live with it.
In the current system, it’s Putin and his close circle who own everything. While they allow capitalist type activities to happen, the capitalists don’t really own anything. If they displease Putin anything they have can be taken away on a whim. If you stay on Putin’s good side, or at least stay beneath his notice, you can operate as a capitalist. But, become too successful and you’ll be reminded who’s in charge.
Both true socialism and true capitalism require that the rule of law apply to everyone, even the leaders. If the leader can just ignore the laws and seize the “means of production” without facing consequences, it’s authoritarianism, not capitalism or communism / socialism.
The USSR was a flawed form of Socialism, but was fundamentally Socialist. The majority of the economy was run by Worker Soviets, in a process called Soviet Democracy. The Politburo, ie the highest Soviet, had a massive amount of influence and power, but day to day decisions were made locally. I would agree, I don’t think it was a particularly good form of Socialism, but I would still consider it Socialist.
Modern Russia is absolutely Capitalist at its core, that’s the entire foundation of the Russian Federation. The Capitalists are the Oligarchs! The Inner Circle are Capitalists! just because it’s a higher stage of Capitalism doesn’t mean it ceases to be Capitalism.
The USSR was a flawed form of Socialism, but was fundamentally Socialist
Was the rule of law strong enough that decisions were being made by the people, or were they being made by authoritarians? Because if key decisions weren’t being made by the people, it wasn’t socialist.
Capitalists can do that as well, without being feudalists. You’re tying an ancient peasant-aristocrat structure to modern Capitalism just to avoid acknowledging that Capitalism has failed Russia.
It has everything to do with Capitalism. When the USSR collapsed and the Russian Federation came into place, Capitalists got much of the Capital, and are now the “oligarchs.”
Well, French president and several of its ministers are saying that socialist left, or radical left, is extremist. So no, it’s not an America problem. It’s very much a Europe problem too.
Flameout Professional Fire Services (i.e. no publicly funded fire department)
Johnny’s Good Eats Certification (i.e. no FDA testing to keep food safe)
SuperStonk Seal of Approval (i.e. no SEC regulating private companies, just for-profit companies doing that job)
Rodney’s Roads and Trails (i.e. all roads are private, you need a payment plan to use them)
Policing by Pinkertons (i.e. all policing is private and for-profit)
Job Insurance, LLC (you pay for private job insurance when you have a job, you hope for benefits if you lose it)
401(k), or starve (you didn’t contribute to your 401(k), that’s too bad)
Only private health insurance, no medicare, no medicaid, no Obamacare, no CHIPs, etc.
You could still have a military, but injured soldiers would be treated by private MASH units, soldiers would be fed by Taco Bell (paid for out of pocket), on base housing would be contracted out to AirBnB, aircraft maintenance would be contracted out to Boeing, and of course Veteran’s Affairs wouldn’t exist.
Except, even there, it was only a dream. Fascism may have elements of capitalism, but fundamentally if the leader is above the law, then private individuals don’t own the means of production, it’s only the leader who truly owns everything, and so it’s not really capitalism.
There was this whole thing called the Soviet Union then there was like a missile crisis
And there was like a group that called themselves National Socialists and they did a genocide and tried to take over a bunch of land by force
We also had to fight a bunch of talking trees that dug tunnels because military industrial complex and heroin
It’s definitely many layers of propaganda but as an American I definitely understand WHERE it comes from, I understand why most people here flinch at the word.
You also gotta understand we had multiple generations in a row huffing lead gasoline so while younger millennials aren’t impacted as bad, MOST Americans are legitimately lead brained.
It wasn’t just leaded gasoline. I was busy getting hot boxed with cigarettes in my grandparent’s leaded gasoline car before burning some asbestos, plastic cutlery, and batteries in the living room fireplace.
Forget no seatbelts or bicycle helmets. Our chemical exposure would probably send a younger person without a built up tolerance into instant seizure.
I also remember crimping down lead shot sinkers on my fishing line with my teeth. Good times. Good times indeed.
The Nazis were literally IN Europe. The USSR literally built a WALL here splitting the continent. And you’re saying that explains why America is the one with socialism PTSD???
Ain’t nothing more American than making everything about you I guess.
I guess you can’t fucking read lol, the comment I’m replying to was TALKING ABOUT AMERICANS. I didn’t make it about Americans the fucking European did.
But European don’t panic at the mention of socialism (what the comment you’re replying to was talking about) yet the Europeans have suffered FAR MORE from your examples of “socialism” than Americans. You can’t explain away how American politics differ from European politics by appropriating European tragedies.
You are so shoved up your own ass it’s insane. Firstly, really bad reading skills. I never justified the response, just that I understand the origins. For fucks sake use your brain a little before attacking someone and sounding like a dunce for it.
But it DOES NOT explain the origins. The USSR and the Nazis are not CAUSES. They CAN’T BE because otherwise Europe would never integrated elements of socialism!
I think we actually agree on that, it’s just semantics at this point. Whatever.
Also watch your aggressiveness. I didn’t call you names and I expect the same in return.
It’s not even semantics if you’re actively misunderstanding the definitions of words, but okay illiterate.
Don’t tell someone to watch their aggressiveness AFTER you started being a cunt. I expect you not to be a cunt to begin with, so why am I beholden to YOUR levels of response? Ridiculous to assume you set the bar when you already fucked right on past it to begin with.
The fucking ego on this guy, ffs
Also, “it can’t be the right answer because a different place with different culture did a different thing!”. Seriously? Did I not explain the lead brain and the propaganda? Or did you not read that? Oh wait, borderline illiterate yeah. Like I’m not justifying the response IM EXPLAINING THE ORIGIN OF IT.
If you can’t follow along then stop replying altogether here
Maybe I just suck at the research, but from what I can tell getting a permanent residence visa is not easy for Americans. If I’m wrong I would absolutely love to know.
France seems to be relatively easy to gain permanent residence and even citizenship, but they do expect you to learn fluent French. Most of the EU requires birthright citizenship. A few will grant it to the decedents of immigrants, like Ireland, though they only do it for two generations out.
Passports are $400+ USD, then there are the plane tickets, which are hundreds of dollars. Then to top it off you need to have room and board while looking for a job and someplace to live.
Another thing I’ve heard is fear of leaving the known and family.
Pretty much the only time we need passports is if we travel outside the U.S. and territories. Those that take cruises or cross borders to other countries would, but generally speaking a majority of Americans don’t have passports.
Eh for me it’s a lot of things. For one just roots, family and friends. Then next is work, I’d have to find a new job over there (doubtful my current one would let me work abroad), and I’d need to see if visas would let me work over there, and for how long. I would probably make less over there, but cost of living is lower too, so I’d have to do finances. Most countries don’t let you own property unless you’re a citizen, and I wouldn’t be, so I’d have to rent for a while. Path to citizenship would then be difficult, and I would have to pay taxes for both countries. Then just pure logistics of what do I do with everything here, would have to basically start all over. It’d be much easier if I was in my early 20s, but I’m nearing 40 which makes it much more difficult.
There is usually something like needing $250K in the bank to be considered for permanent residency. Then the paperwork costs money, so most Americans will have to wait until they get refugee status.
Several things keep Americans from moving to Europe.
First, immigration laws of the country one is moving to. If one is not able to get a passport from an EU or EEA county based on ancestry, you basically need to be sponsored for a work visa by a company in the country you want to move to, which can be quite difficult. And even then, you have to be employed in that country for long enough to qualify for permanent residency, then citizenship, which can take up to 7 or 8 years in some countries.
If one is lucky enough to have parents or grandparents who emigrated to the US from a European country and can claim citizenship based on that, it’s a lot of work to get all of the paperwork together and verified and accepted by that government’s consulate (at least it is for Germany, but German bureaucracy is … special).
Second, the US is one of the only countries in the world that double taxes its citizens. If someone was born in the United States, they will have to file taxes reporting income to the US government every single year until they die, and PAY taxes to the US government on any income over a certain amount every year until they die, regardless of the source of that income, and regardless of the fact that taxes on the same income need to be paid to the host country.
While I have zero respect for the snivelling shitgibbon name Boris Johnson, he was born in New York and had to renounce his US citizenship to escape the IRS. You also have to PAY the US government $2350 (in cash) for the privilege of giving up your citizenship, which is also…unique.
Sometimes there are tax treaties that can take most of the sting out of the double taxation issue (Norway’s is decent for US citizens), but it depends on the country.
Finally, it just never occurs to many Americans that leaving is even a possibility.
In all fairness, we panic and reach for our guns at the mention of just about anything. Right this very moment, I’m pooping on company time, scared out of my wits, a nine millimeter at the ready atop my presently ankle adorning boxers.
When they’re talking about big pharma and other companies controlling peoples lives and how the people that control them conspire to keep the rest of us in line… Then start talking about Jews…
He more talked about Judaism and Christianity, but it was relatively minor compared to actual class analysis and additionally was most famously brought up as a response to antisemetic bullshit that supported the false idea that Jewish people were controlling all of the banks and all of the money and were the source of all problems.
Marx spoke of Religion as a component of classism, not as a replacement for it, unlike what modern anti-semites do.
Read Marx’s On the Jewish Question. It’s a response to the extremely anti-semetic The Jewish Question, and Marx basically goes through all of its bullshit and concludes that while religion is used by Capitalism to reinforce itself, he advocates for emancipation of religious people themselves. He was an atheist of Jewish descent.
There are tons of antisemitic leftists. I’ve had to heavily curate my social media because of them, and I’m lucky because that’s all I’ve had to do (eg, I’m not being chased across college campuses or doxxed for belonging to a synagogue or have people waiting outside of my door to hound me immediately).
But there are tons of leftists who aren’t as well.
Leftism has become co-opted as way for people to virtue signal and rationalize things they want to believe. The right is definitely seizing on this strife. But historically, there’s nobody the left likes to fight more than other leftists.
And the meme at the top about immigrants… that isn’t new. The USSR was famous for establishing ethnostates and it carries over to modern day. Sure, you could immigrate. But it isn’t like workers held hands and ignored the differences. The pressure was there, but perhaps not the wage pressure. Out groups were still blamed for things like shortages and service degradation, just like today. Nor a defense of anti immigration, but people seem to think the problem exists in uneducated or unenlightened people close to be leftwing. Nope, it’s our cohort. We are watching it in real time right now.
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