Wouldn’t do it for a litany of reasons, but the main being that it’s not meant for such things. You want it to be as close to the OS and drivers as possible. Anything getting between Unraid managing the disks is overly complex, and asking for trouble. What happens if the container dies? What happens if the container gets OOMkill’d?
If you’re not going to use it to manage your disks, then I guess no issues, but there’s better suited software for such things.
Yeah, UnRaid does all of that, but from my very basic testing of ProxMox in an old computer, the VM management is much better than in UnRaid. The same goes for VLAN awareness with just 1 nic.
I’m in no way unsatisfied with UnRaid, but I watched a video by Christian Lempa doing something similar, only with TrueNAS instead of UnRaid, which is what got my brain thinking about all these potential options.
There’s the question of “CAN I do this?” vs “SHOULD I do this?”. I don’t think abstracting your main storage handling software away from where it definitely needs to be is going to net you anything positive, but add more issues and complications.
I’m sure you can find videos of people running drivers out of containers just because it’s possible. Should you though? Nope.
I do have the advantage of having a mirror of my server 2.5K miles away in my brother’s house. That’s probably why I’m thinking about being so candidly careless.
I appreciate the great advise. But now I’m willing to take one for the team and come back with either am horror story or an epic win.
Manage all my containers and VMs over ProxMox instead of inside UnRaid directly, effectively leaving UnRaid to be just manage storage only.
This, from my understanding, will in turn allow me to play with container options other than docker (docker is awesome, I know, but it also has limitations), effectively opening new roads of knowledge to me. UnRaid doesn’t even support Kubernetes or LXC.
Easier VLAN management in the server side. I have to play with firewall permissions on my PFSense to allow some containers to talk to others. ProxMox, being VLAN aware, would allow me to eliminate those permissions from PFSense and just manage interconnectivity via ProxMox.
While I’m aware that I can even compose dockers in UnRaid if there’s no UnRaid docker template available, it’s not the most user friendly way for managing those containers, in my opinion.
Another reason is that I’m always trying to learn new things, and from my limited experience with ProxMox (I’ve only been playing with it for about a month or so on an old rig), ProxMox is incredibly easy and powerful when it comes to container and VM deployment. The management options seem to be infinite.
Your point is very solid, which is why I’m contemplating segregating UnRaid and ProxMox into 2 separate rigs as opposed to virtualizing UnRaid.
These are hard decisions. Keep just 1 rig and spend way more time and probably migraines configuring this, or just build a new rig for ProxMox and migrate all my containers and VMs to it, which is faster, but will come at a higher monetary price, including power consumption.
Just get a separate host for whatever the VM stuff you want. You won’t need to worry about messing anything related to storage up, AND you’ll be able to mess with all the networking stuff without impacting your NAS.
If you’re just trying to run some simple services, just get a $300 Ryzen minipc. Plenty powerful for what it sounds like you’re looking to do.
Yeah. I told my wife what I wanted to do, and she actually would rather have me spend the money than risk spending too much time if and when I break something. I’m thinking a minispc Ryzen 9 or a Ryzen 7 venus, set it up with a 4TB NVMe. That should do the trick. It’s a bit over 300 bucks, but will be a bit more future proof. 64GB DDR5, and fire it away.
Have you considered the increase in disk io and that hypervisor prefer to be in control of all hardware? Including disks…
If you are set on proxmox consider that it can directly share your data itself. This could be made easy with cockpit and the zfs plugin. The plugin helps if you have existing pools. Both can be installed directly on proxmox and present a separate web UI with different options for system management.
The safe things here to use are the filesharing and pool management operations. Basically use the proxmox webui for everything it permits first.
I actually never considered this. And if I’m understanding you correctly, this would render using UnRaid unnecessary.
This is great info. I’m going to fit my current ProxMox test rig with a few disks I have (old small disks I have replaced over the years that still work) and test this option first. This might make this easier.
If this works out, I can still keep the server I set up off-site to mirror my storage, right? Even if that is still UnRaid? I need more coffee.
Yup you can. In fact you likely should and will probably find yourself improving disk io dramatically compared to your original thoughts doing this. It’s better in my opinion to let the hypervisor manage disks operations. That means in my opinion it should also share files with smb and NFS especially if you are already considering nas type operations.
Since proxmox supports zfs out of the box along with btrfs and even XFS you have a myriad of options. You combine that with cockpit and you have a nice management interface.
I went the zfs route because I’m familiar with it and I appreciate it’s native sharing options built into the filesystem. It’s cool to have the option to create a new dataset off the pool and directly pass it into a new lxc container.
I would like to ask for some suggestions on the initial process to migrate the data from UnRaid.
Considering that:
My disk pool is made out of 2 10TB disks, for a total of 20TB
It also has a 10TB parity disk
The pool is using just -6TB of the storage
The option I see is:
Get another 10TB disk
I can clear the parity drive and copy my data from the pool to that disk for migrating
Configure the pool disks to RaidZ and once I complete that, use the other 2 disks as parity pool
Or, I bite the bullet, get brand new 10TB disks, 12 to make it Raidz2 and have a storage pool of 40TB (35 usable?). I’m thinking 4 groups of 3 disks each should do the trick. Then use the same method to migrate my data.
With 64GB of ECC RAM, I should have a pretty swift storage IOPS that way.
You will be amused with zfs performance in proxmox due to all the tuning that is possible. If this is going to be an existing zfs pool keep in mind it’s easier to just install proxmox with the zfs option and let it create a zfs rpool during setup. For the rpool tweak a couple options. Make sure ashift is at least 12 during the install or 13 if you are using some crazy fast SSD as proxdisk for the rpool.
It needs to be 12 if it’s a modern day spinner and probably a good setting for most ssds. Do not go over 12 if it’s a spinning disk.
Now beyond that you can directly import your existing zfs pool into proxmox with a single import command. Assuming you have an existing zfs pool.
In this scenario zfs would be fully maintaining disk operations for both an rpool and a media pool.
You should consider tweaking a couple things to really improve performance via the guide de I linked.
Proxmox vms/zvols live in their own dataset. Before you start getting to crazy creating vms make sure you are taking advantage of all the performance tweaks you can. By default proxmox sets a default record size for all datasets to 128k. qcow2, raw, and even zvols will benefit from record size of 64k because it tends to improve the underlying filesystem performance of things like ext4, XFS, even UFS. Imo it’s silly to create vm filesystems like btrfs if you’re vm is sitting on top of a cow filesystem.
Another huge improvement is tweaking the compression algorithm. lz4 is blazing fast and should be your default go to for zfs. The new one is pretty good but can slow things down a bit for active operations like active vm disks. So make sure your default compression is lz4 for datasets with vm disks. Honestly it’s just a good default to specify for the entire pool. You can select other compressions for datasets with more static data.
If you have a media dataset full of files like music, vids, pics. Setting a record size of 1mb will heavily improve disk io operations.
In proxmox it will default to grabbing half of your memory for arc. Make sure you change that after install. It’s a file that defines arc_max in byte number format. Set the max to something more reasonable if you have 64 gigs of memory. You can also define the arc_min
Some other huge improvements? If you are using an SSD for your proxmox install I highly recommend you install log2ram on your hypervisor. It will stop all those constant log writes on your SSD. It will also sync them to disk on a timer and shutdown/reboot. It’s also a huge performance and SSD lifespan improvement to migrate /tmp and /var/tmp to tmpfs
So many knobs to turn. I hope you have fun playing with this.
Another thing to keep in mind with zfs is underlying vm disks will perform better if the zfs pool is a type of mirror or stripe of mirrors. Z1 Z2 type pools are better for media and files. Cm disk io will improve on the mirror type style dramatically. Just passing what I’ve learned over time in optimizing systems.
At the moment I am using Openmediavault as a VM within proxmox - I pass my HDDs through to this VM. Openmediavault let’s me do all the stuff I want to: Share folders via SSH, NFS and raid-management.
Do you know if I can do the same with proxmox directly? Do you maybe have a link where this way is described in detail?
At its core cockpit is like a modern day webmin that allows full system management. So yes it can help with creating raid devices and even lvms. It can help with mount points and encryption as well.
I do know it can help share whatever with smb and NFS. Just have a look at the plugins.
As for proxmox it’s just using Debian underneath. That Debian already happens to be optimized for virtualization and has native zfs support baked in.
Thank you for putting the meme in text too. I wish it was more commonplace, not just for screenreaders but also for people like me whose internet loads pictures slowly. Saves me a click and is just as funny.
Also, yeah, fuck their hypocrisy. They’d gladly push both buttons and see no issue.
libertarian “socialists” are a deeply idealist tendency that didnt manage to get anything done ever. the only thing they do is criticize actually existing socialist projects, mostly using state department talking points. the concept of critical support is unknown to them and the only revolutions they like are the ones that fail. they are puppets in the hands of the cia.
It’s not very enlightened to call entire movements like libertarian socialism (AKA anarchism) just idealist, ineffectual, and to imply they’re essentially brainwashed by the US government.
Anti-state movements have a history as long and storied as socialism, and theoretical frameworks for their beliefs far more complex than you give them credit for.
yeah the state department point was probably a little harsh and generalizing of me, though i am indeed quite pissed how reactionaries like vaush or keffals are appropriating leftist aesthetics in order to shill for us imperialism. i am also standing with my statement about ancoms & co not getting anything done, sorry.
Socialism is an economic and political philosophy encompassing diverse economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production, as opposed to private ownership.
Words mean what they’re used to mean. Even the word “government” is wildly different between Europe and the US. We flip out over headlines like the government of Belgium has collapsed! and it’s only as much of a kerfuffle as the House trying to elect a Speaker.
If ever there was a real world example of Newspeak, it is how—thanks to class war and three red scares—the working class no longer even has a word for socialism. So now welfare capitalists like Bernie Sanders call themselves socialist despite never calling for the abolition of the private ownership of the means of production. It’s an amazing achievement of the capitalist class’ propaganda machine.
I accidently started a trend among a certain group of being early to the meeting because I was worried about being late. So, instead of getting ten minutes to mentally prepare with a book or podcast, it became asinine small talk. Now I’ve just gotten better at being ten minutes early without signing in and setting a two minute timer on my phone to log into the chat. Now they complain I’m not chatting with them. Why can’t they understand I’d never choose to interact with them, this is work.
Most of you would’ve failed even with those starting conditions.
If you think you can build a billion-worth company, go and do it. VC money can be secured these days with a half-assed power point presentation. You won’t be owning your entire company and someone will make even more money than you, but in just some 10 years you’ll make yourself and someone else a few billions. Then you’ll have a billion or so in starting capital and you can go become the richest human in existence. Clearly, if you’re capable of all those things, you should be already on your way to success instead of complaining on the internet.
The socioeconomic usefulness of the system allowing for such lifepaths has not been debated. Instead the message enviously pointed out that becoming rich is only possible by being rich in the first place. My argument is that if you’re capable of taking less than a mil and making billions, there’s a system in place already that will allow you to do just that and become famously rich in the process. So, your complaint is invalid. And you’re not anti capitalism, you’re just jealous.
The main thing sitting between me and being a billionaire is my conscience and moral values. I’m of the opinion that to become a billionaire you must necessarily have psychopathic tendencies.
For example: No way I could stand up on stage and bullshit my way through a Cybertruck reveal knowing it’s all lies and unfinished ideas.
Not just billionaires, there’s research showing that a high percentage of senior executives are likely to be psychopaths. Capitalist system selects for this behavior. People who are willing to lie, cheat, and step on others, are the ones that are rewarded and get ahead. Honest people with morals get filtered out along the way because they aren’t willing to do what a psychopath would do to succeed.
I’m pro universal basic income and a 99% tax after something around a few mil of annual income. I’d generally advocate for a societal system where such wealth accumulation by an individual is impossible.
“Lefties” like you make me sick to my stomach. You can only whine your jealous tears and complain about the housing market. You’re the reason everyone thinks the left are a bunch of idiot kids in colorful clothes. In a utopic communist society you’d be leeching off while whining about how everyone keeps working even though it’s clearly unnecessary.
we got enough political BS all over the platform. But sure, I guess people who don’t want to see repeated “capitalism bad” in every community in every post should just leave lemmy.
nobody made this argument except you, what was said was that Biden supporters are just like the people whom this flag represents, they’re ok with an actual genocide being committed against other people as long they’re comfortable
I’d be surprised if opponents of genocide would vote Republican instead, given how some GOP reps seem to be opposing even the half-measure of delaying arms shipments.
A two party state where you choose between “fucked up” and “less fucked up, but constantly ceding ground” just does a poor job of accurately representing the opinions of people favouring actual progress, so they’re doing what they can to pull the Overton Window their way.
This is what perpetuates the insanity in US. When your choices are Hitler and 99% Hitler, then the vote is meaningless. A lot of people will just choose not to participate in this circus.
If you support Biden then you are supporting a genocide that US is currently involved in. Period. The fact that you can’t even admit this just further underscores your utter lack of morality and intellectual honesty.
Ok, but if I don’t support Biden, the other guy is going to continue doing the genocide. Maybe even at a worse pace. So what’s the answer than? Voting on every other decision
Genocide sucks, but America dug this hole for generations. It’s not all on Biden
Your actions are what matter, and if you’re going to vote for the guy who is conducting a genocide then you are complicit. No amount of hand wringing will change that.
Not voting is also an action. And if your refusal to vote allows someone to take power that will not only continue the genocide, but also start more genocides, then you are complicit. No amount of hand wringing will change that.
Yeah, not voting for either genocidal scumbag is indeed an action. To frame what’s happening in US as the fault of people who refuse to vote for either scumbag is the height of idiocy. No amount of liberal sophistry will change that.
It’s the trolley problem with a single track: you can pull the lever and the trolley will run over 5 people before it stops, or you can not pull the lever and the trolley will run over 10 people.
If you’re standing beside the lever with your arms crossed refusing to pull it, saying “the fault is on the person who tied the people to the track. Getting involved makes me complacent.” Then yes, people are going to blame you because even if you didn’t cause the problem there is something very easy you can do to make it less bad.
You can’t save all 10, but you can save 5. So you do what you can, and then you also go after the guy who tied the people to the tracks.
Learn how resisting actual repressive regimes works instead of making a clown of yourself here. You’re not saving anyone here. Biden is the one doing a genocide as we speak, not Trump. But I suppose racists like you don’t even consider Palestinians to be humans, so you won’t lose any sleep over that.
Nah, it’s just people who use a trolley analogy to dismiss an actual genocide they’re supporting who are racists. Clearly you place no value on the lives of Palestinians that the party you keep telling people to vote for is massacring. At least have the decency to own up to your beliefs openly little fash.
Change comes from outside the ballot box. Vote for Biden, sure, but join and support the ongoing protests forcing his hand currently. Historically, meaningful change has come from collective action.
If your choices are Hitler and 99% Hitler, you still do what you can to stop 100% Hitler. Less bad is less bad.
Nobody cares about your smug sense of superiority when 100% Hitler is in charge and you proudly announce “I did nothing to stop this, other than try to encourage other people to also do nothing to stop this.”
Considering I specifically suggested doing something is better than doing nothing, I’m going to go ahead and guess that listening to what other people are saying isn’t a strength of yours.
Doing something is what the students protesting the genocide are currently doing, not voting for the guy doing the genocide. The fact that you don’t understand these basic things is truly phenomenal.
I understand that the people protesting are doing something. This is the first time you’ve actually advocated for an action.
People are fully capable of both protesting and voting to keep someone worse from doing worse things. The fact that you don’t understand these basic things is truly phenomenal.
Protesting a genocide is real tangible action, voting for a guy committing the genocide is the opposite that action. Hope that helps clear things up for you since you seem to have trouble grasping this concept.
Stalin and Mao liberated hundreds of millions of people, provided them with food, healthcare, education, and jobs. Imagine comparing that to a senile manager of the empire doing a genocide. What is wrong with you?
Meh, you and I both know that we cannot have an honest discussion of Mao or Stalin’s flaws on this instance, the same way we can have an honest discussion of Biden’s.
lemmy.ml
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