So, does a genetic engineering lab now have the corpse of a man from the future with all the future vaccinations, immunities, and whatever else that may provide?
Is this the Kirk that was in the project Phoenix project?
You can use about any laptop with Linux. I would say take a current laptop and boot into a distro using a live usb. This will let you try it without installing it. You do occasionally run into issues with some hardware: fingerprint, wifi, trackpad, etc. So this is a good test.
But otherwise if you want a laptop that guarantees Linux support: Framework, System76, Tuxedo
I actually thought the plot of Picard series 2 was going to be something like this, Picard has to ensure WW3 happens, dooming millions to save his future. Instead we got, well what we got.
Seems to me that they are merging the eugenics wars and wwiii together in canon. Maybe the eugenics wars are the catalyst for wwiii or something like that?
Its interesting what they are doing but god damn are they hamstringing the timeline by moving Khan to 2022/3.
First Contact happens in 2064 pretty reliably. So that means this PreTeen Kahn needs to become a Tyrant. Rule over a quarter of the globe, I guess start or be involved in WW3 and bounce on the botany bay. All in 40 years.
It can still kind of work. Montalban was about 45 when he was Khan, so let’s say Khan was around that age when he was exiled. The young Khan we see seems to be about 10 years old, maybe a bit younger.
So say baby Khan was born in 2012 if we want to take Sera’s 30 years literally rather than as an approximation. World War III (according to ENT: “In a Mirror Darkly” but the years may have slipped) starts in 2026 and lasts until 2053 (ST: FC, SNW: “Strange New Worlds”). Khan could easily have fought in the war and took power in the end days of the war - he’d only be 41 in 2053.
Even in the old timeline Khan only ruled one quarter of Earth for about 4-5 years between 1992 and 1996. So it’s not implausible that the Eugenics Wars happen around 2048-2053 (Khan would be in his mid-thirties, and augmented) and Khan escaped after his reign was toppled during the Last Day in 2053 on a non-warp powered sleeper ship, because Cochrane only managed warp 10 years later.
In fact, having the Eugenics Wars take place around 2050 works better because Archer said his great-grandfather fought in them (in North Africa). Since ENT takes place in the 2150s, that only makes about a century between their births, which is certainly reasonable, whereas if Archer-great-grand-pére fought in the 1990s then it'd be stretching his longevity just a tad.
Having WW3 and the Eugenics Wars switched in canon would make a lot of sense. Humanity goes to war and ruins civilization, then the augments take advantage and seize part of the planet for their fifedom. Then people like Colonel Green start purging anyone with radiation altered genes in the west as part of a general paranoia over “divergent” evolution.
If we take the chronology in “Mirror Darkly” as still valid, then Green started the war in 2026.
2026: Earth's World War Three begins, over the issue of genetic manipulation and human genome enhancement. Colonel Phillip Green leads a faction of ultra-violent eco-terrorists resulting in 37 million deaths.
But Mirror Darkly need not be correct in the exact year at this point.
It’s established now that there have been successive incursions in the timeline. Time has been resistant to forks that eliminate major events entirely, but the years in which any given major event took place may shift.
If it gives TNG Berman-era fans of Picard season three comfort, this explanation can account for how Jack Crusher was both born after Nemesis and is 23-24 years old in 2401. That is, there occurred a subtle shift in the timeline between Nemesis and Picard such that Nemesis took place a few years earlier than originally.
Again, these are not the ratcheting changes of 12 Monkeys, they are eddies in the river of the Prime Timeline that shift the flow a bit but the major points of its route remains the same.
It might not, but until there’s an explicit on-screen contradiction or mention that the timeline did shift, for the sake of fostering discussion it’s better to say that the dates stand and see if we can work around it.
I grant that you are correct because the dates have to slip since hopefully WWIII doesn’t actually start 2 years from now, but there’s a larger point I’m trying to make here.
If we use the Temporal Wars as a trump card to every Trek inconsistency, there’s really no point playing the Watsonian game. “The temporal wars changed it” is functionally equivalent as “a wizard did it” or “God made it so”. It’s a cop-out that shuts down discussions instead of extending them.
I mean, it’s very tempting. Why did Chekov recognize Khan if he didn’t show up on screen until Season 2? Temporal Wars. Why did Wesley say the Klingons joined the Federation? Temporal Wars. Why was Sam Kirk said to have 3 sons in one episode but shown only to have 1 in another? Temporal Wars. I could go on. Every query becomes a closed question from this point out and that’s no fun. That’s been the danger ever since the TCW was introduced in ENT.
That was a reason why alternate timeline discussions were very closely regulated on the old r/DaystromInstitute. So I would rather not invoke the butterfly effect for anything if there’s no particular reason or explicit statement that it happened.
I appreciate the risk, but it seems that we’ve got a canon confirmation already.
There will be slippage. We already know that Voyager changed the timeline after the events of DS9. The Romulan Supernova and Picard season 2 perturbed it further.
The key thing is that there do exist some time crystals (as defined in physics not necessarily the glowing blue ones on Borath) which are events that are fixed points in the timeline. Those have to happen, like Pike’s injuries, and cannot slip too much without a fork.
Physics just doesn’t support the rigidity of precise dates in the timeline that would give many fans comfort nor does it support the infinite branching that makes everything meaningless.
This deserves a lot more looking into. Possibly a post in c/DaystromInstitute at some point, but, like Holmes, I cry out for more data before wanting to form a workable hypothesis. As a side note, I’m already gathering data for working out Una’s chronology. It’s filling out nicely.
We don’t disagree in broad terms. I just recoil from the easy (and potentially dismissive) answer if I don’t think it’s actually necessary for the most part, so I’ll stick to not futzing around with established dates until something really tells me otherwise. As someone who’s been playing around and figuring out Trek chronologies since the early 90s, this is where I’m most comfortable being.
A general observation: I think that this episode is consistent with the way time travel is seen to work in the Trek universe - that the timeline is overwritten rather than branched. The Kelvin Timeline remains the one sole example of a branched timeline that was created as the result of a temporal incursion. In all other cases, the timeline becomes (in my favorite comparison) like a palimpsest.
Our household has been coming at it from our understanding of physics, and have been since at least the 90s. It means that we’ve been watching through that lens for a very long time.
Without it, the episodes in Voyager where Harry Kim or Janeway came back to correct the timeline are meaningless. We would just assume that the unchanged timeline went forward offscreen.
This resilient river of time version offers a continuity where actions matter, and corrections to the timeline mean something more than just a shift in point of view.
As you note, multiple universes can exist but it takes something very large to do it. In Star Trek, we’re not in the infinite and ever expanding continuum of branching universes where every possible permutation of events exists. (And that version of the multiverse doesn’t stand up for hard scientists.)
So far we know that the Mirror Universe has different physics of light - something that’s so enormous that it’s hard to credit that it’s developed in any kind of parallel. It suggests some fixed events in the past development of the two universes that are extraordinarily resilient against branching.
The Romulan supernova is a major event but of a much lower order of magnitude than say the establishment of the physics of light. It seems like that would be a kind of lower bound for a branching trigger.
All to say that I agree that a Daystrom Institute deep dive would be worthwhile. In fact, it may be possible to go through onscreen canon and itemize the various events and inconsistencies that support this construct.
The Narada incursion had the benefit of three things - a black hole, a very intense ion storm, and the magical red matter. We can minimally accept that as a unique confluence of events that led to a branched rather than overwritten timeline, at least.
To support the resilient river of time model, when I was studying history in grad school I came up with this axiom: history isn’t inevitable, but it has momentum.
To put another way, any given historical event is the natural outcome of historical events before it, and therefore when changing history you’re not just trying to change the one thing, but dealing with the weight of everything before pushing the timeline in that direction. That’s why it’s so hard to change history, that - in Sera’s terms - it seems like Time itself is fighting you. Call it historical momentum, call it historical inertia, what you will. And so the more “momentous” the event, the harder it is to just change it - things will “want” to go back to the way it was.
It’s never been in any way realistic that most of the time travel incursions didn’t somewhat change the Prime continuity.
There are exceptions with the Guardian of Forever’s intervention, but First Contact and Voyager’s temporal interventions had to had changed the small things.
Besides, Roddenberry himself decided to change the timing of WW3 and the first human warp technology in TNG Encounter at Farpoint. There has been a change in continuity since at least that point.
This actually makes sense of it in-universe and in terms of physics.
I guess I never used Twitter as "intended". I always just cultivated my follow list and watched the people I was following, and looked at the ppl they were replying to & retweeting to identify new people to follow.
I didn’t expect to like this episode as much as I did.
Wesley’s Kirk is growing on me, and I give the EPs credit for using the alternate timeline Kirk’s to let his performance coalesce. I also like the deft weaving of the crazy car driving, heartbreaker Kirk with the think five steps ahead genius that he also had to be.
The acknowledgement in-universe that the timeline and humanity’s development has been interfered with is entirely credible given the accretion of temporal incidents across every era of the franchise.
I’m not sure how I feel about it giving comfort to those who feel so strongly that this isn’t the same timeline as the original TOS one. (I see some chortling on this point elsewhere.) Likely the temporal physics of this is best left for a deep dive /c/Daystrom Institute discussion, but I prefer hold to a view that this is absolutely still the same Prime timeline but that the timeline itself has been perturbed repeatedly even if the key events have kept their integrity. In fact, the Romulan temporal agent, while not a reliable narrator, gave credence to the idea that the Prime timeline had proven unexpectedly robust against major intervention by humanity’s enemies.
I was delighted to see DTI show up and be named. It seems all of a piece of DTI’s rigidity that they would leave La’an alone to deal with the trauma. It does however mirror Pike’s own experience in sealing his future with the time crystal. One senses that there must be some kind of intersection or mutual revelation to come, leaving aside the Chekhov’s gun of the temporally dislocated watch.
Knowing that Anson Mount had to relocate to Toronto with his wife and newborn explains why episodes featuring others in the ensemble were front loaded for this season. He’d said before he committed to the show that creative conversations would be needed as he wasn’t wishing to repeat the production experience he had in Discovery season two. A creative conversation with the EPs that limits a principal character’s presence is fairly extraordinary, but Mount seems to have done it in a way that’s generous to the rest of the ensemble.
With an ensemble so strong, and as we didn’t see as much of Chapel or Una as we would have liked last season, I’m fine with waiting to see more Pike later in the season. It sounds as though we have a Spock focused and an Ortegas to come before some big ensemble pieces in the back half.
Random thoughts as I watch (cross-posted from the old place):
Wow, first that outburst, and then Spock jams too much. Truly in his wild child phase.
BTW, was that a Denobulan?
Pelia totally worried that this whole utopia thing just a passing trend. And hilariously having to prove (?) she isn't a thief.
They really are taking advantage of Babs O's Jiu-Jitsu training this year, aren't they?
Captain James T. Kirk, the greatest menace of Temporal Investigations!
Oh boy, alternate timeline where the Federation doesn't exist time!
"Maple leaves, politeness, poutine."
Clever distraction.
I wonder if 3D chess is a thing in the United Earth Fleet timeline, because Kirk is good at the 2D in it.
Okay, I guess they do have 3D Chess.
I generally try not to be like this... but goddamn I'd like to thank them for having Christina Chong in various states of tight clothing and undress.
Good thing the time travel guy went to the ship Sam Kirk was on.
Oh man, I was looking forward to driving across Lake Ontario to Toronto (presumably from Rochester or Buffalo or something, right?), which totally would be a logical economic and engineering choice, I'm sure!
Mildly annoyed that Kirk doesn't drive to Beastie Boys.
James Discreet Kirk
Soongs gonna break in even to the timelines and series they aren't in.
Jim Discretion Kirk
OH FUCK ROMULANS
We have gone (zero) days without Romulans trying to screw up the timeline.
Probably the first time that DuckDuckGo has been mentioned in Star Trek.
Yeah, Pythagoras is the worst, Pelia.
Oh, so this is a predestination paradox where they make her become an engineer and as a result she is there to inspire La'An to go look for her later.
KHAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN! KHAAAAANNNNNNNNN! (Or at least the institute for him)
To be fair, this is like the third face that Captain Kirk has had.
We have gone (ZERO) days without a time-travelling Romulan that had to ditch the ears.
We have gone (ZERO) days without (a) Captain Kirk dying. We're three-for-three on Kirk actor deaths, folks!
KHAAAAAAAAAANNNN! KHAAAAAAANNNN! KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!
THEY CAME UP WITH AN EXPLANATION WHY THE EUGENICS WARS DIDN'T HAPPEN IN THE 90'S! THE MAD LADS DID IT!
Face to face with great-great-great-great grandpa Baby Genetics-Hitler.
Oh, great, temporal investigations. No wonder they hate Kirk so much, even his alternate versions screw stuff around.
Good ep. Way better than it sounded when I first heard about it.
Inscryption is REALLY GOOD. If you enjoyed MTG / strategy / board games. DO NOT READ ABOUT IT. Spoilers will ruin it. tl;dr it’s a horror-based card game.
Bayonetta I am also really really enjoying. I actually feel betrayed that no one recommended this to me before. It’s perfect so far. Super fun fast paced skill based combat with a badass chick. It’s just 11/10 over the top all the time.
I’ll just go through my library and pick out the ones that I don’t think are very well-known or might have been missed by anyone who got into gaming more recently.
Demon Truck is a devilishly arcadey game, and at 90% off it is fifty cents so you are legally required to buy it right now. Once you play it for a few minutes, you’ll want the BANGER soundtrack too, which was done by Zircon, costs $3, and is worth every penny. Here’s a sample on YouTube if Bandcamp doesn’t work for you. Game is a 40 megabyte download. What are you waiting for?
Approaching Infinity - What if No Man’s Sky was a turn-based roguelike with retro tile-based sprite graphics? If that appeals to you, give it a look. The developer also has a more fantasy-oriented game called The Curse of Yendor.
Devil Daggers is worth trying if you enjoy fiendishly hard FPS games with pixel graphics.
Bots Are Stupid - it’s a tight platformer where you control the character by writing a script to control its actions down to the individual frame if necessary. It has a level creator as well. If you’ve ever seen tool-assisted speedruns (TAS), this game is basically creating a TAS for something like Super Meat Boy.
If you have PCVR, give Ancient Dungeon a look. It’s early access, but it already has that particular spark that tends to (and did) hook me, and it does a number of things phenomenally well, such as knife-throwing. In lists of top VR games, however, I rarely see it get a mention.
Distance is a racing game with where your car can jump, do flips, fly, stick to walls or the ceiling, and potentially get cut in half by the road hazards. It’s by the same developers and is the successor to the equally fun and completely free Nitronic Rush.
It’s not on sale, but at $5, Noitu Love 2: Devolution doesn’t need a sale to be well-worth the price.
Lastly, Timespinner is a pixel-art metroidvania with time travel. I thought it was pretty fun.
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