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modifier , to technology in Apple reaches $25M settlement with the DOJ for discriminating against US residents during hiring | The DOJ said that Apple's hiring practices favored visa holders and left out US citizens and perma...

Might as well just call it a fee rather than a fine or settlement.

scytale , to technology in Apple reaches $25M settlement with the DOJ for discriminating against US residents during hiring | The DOJ said that Apple's hiring practices favored visa holders and left out US citizens and perma...

What was the benefit there, paying lower salaries for workers on visas? Can employers pay lower salaries for non citizens/residents?

Dran_Arcana ,

Not just lower base salaries, its also that the good employees are at a greater disadvantage in negotiating raises / work conditions because an employer declining and letting them go instead would mean a loss of a work visa (if they don’t find other work) and potential deportation.

For example, Apple can’t legally mandate an 80hr work week. But being an at-will employer, they CAN just fire anyone working 40hrs/week for nebulous “performance concerns”. Who is more likely to decide to work 80hrs on their own to hit impossible performance targets? The guy who has unlimited time to go find another job or the guy who if he doesn’t find another job in 3 months has to pull his kids out of school and move halfway across the world?

You have a work visa worker by the balls way more than a full citizen.

Doorbook ,

Closed work permit for a single employer is the reason. I think a work permit should be closed to a single employer for 1 year then it can be open which will help reduce employer greed.

wmmc88 ,

Not sure this logic tracks. PERM is a program that transitions the current visa holder workers to instead have a green card (aka no longer need a visa). If I were to follow your logic, Apple would be incentived to make the PERM postings more accessible.

The point of these PERM postings is to prove to DoL that the current employee deserves a green card because they’re not easily replaceable. If a qualified applicant applies to the PERM posting, they are not hired. It just delays the PERM process for the visa worker. If Apple wanted to keep the threat of deportation, doing the opposite of what they were fined would make more sense? Why would they want to fast track a green card for them?

monkeyman512 ,

Easier to abuse position of power. Visa people need to stay employed to stay in country.

Dudewitbow ,

Visa holders are both paid less and willing to put up with more shit in fear of losing their job.

ohlaph ,

And work a shit ton of overtime.

I haven’t worked with very many visa holders until my current position. The visa holders are online working from 7AM to 10PM, all the time.

I’m not working 80 hours a week, sorry. You’re getting 40 hours. I’ll give 45 on occasion.

Outtatime , to technology in Apple reaches $25M settlement with the DOJ for discriminating against US residents during hiring | The DOJ said that Apple's hiring practices favored visa holders and left out US citizens and perma...
@Outtatime@sh.itjust.works avatar

The cost of doing business. At the expense of you and I

Elliott , to technology in Apple reaches $25M settlement with the DOJ for discriminating against US residents during hiring | The DOJ said that Apple's hiring practices favored visa holders and left out US citizens and perma...

This would be like issuing me a $1 fine for speeding; here’s two dollars, now I’m really gonna speed.

TheFeatureCreature , to technology in Apple reaches $25M settlement with the DOJ for discriminating against US residents during hiring | The DOJ said that Apple's hiring practices favored visa holders and left out US citizens and perma...
@TheFeatureCreature@lemmy.world avatar

aka 0.03% of their reported profits for the 2023 fiscal year. This isn’t even a slap on the hand or a penny found under the couch. This is a grain of sand on the beaches of a planet on the other side of the galaxy.

As has been said many times: Laws are made for everyday people like you and me, not for megacorps like Apple.

0x0 ,

Would be fun to fine companies by percentage with increasing values for repeat offenses.

Kyle_The_G ,

While we’re at it it would be cool to peg CEO pay to the lowest position available so that if the CEO wants a raise everyone else gets a proportionate increase.

keckbug ,

Cool, but tricky. It’d have the effect of simply contracting out loads of positions to sketchy labor companies

SinningStromgald ,

Which is why you include contracted, temporary, part-time and full-time workers. And/Or set limits on the number of contracted workers compared to full/part/temp time workers for the same position. Close the loop holes.

demonsword ,
@demonsword@lemmy.world avatar

Close the loop holes

big business owns Congress, they’d just bribe lobby for new loopholes to exploit

RobotToaster ,

And peg politicians’ pay to minimum wage.

_dev_null ,
@_dev_null@lemmy.zxcvn.xyz avatar

peg CEO pay (…) CEO wants a raise

This sounds like you’re talking about salary. This strategy would need to be tied to executive compensation.

Check out the wiki on how convoluted and fucked up executive compensation can get.

sfcl33t ,

That’s how punitive damages are supposed to work, according to John Grisham

ilega_dh ,

To put this into perspective, if you make $100k/y: this is $30

In other words: a joke

Edit: and full disclosure: I’m a full-blown Apple fan

LukeMedia ,

For more perspective, you’d need to make $100k/y net income tax. As a random example, in North Carolina with state and federal taxes, not accounting for any deductions, that’d be about $142k/y.

Adding this because with personal salaries people typically see and think of the gross number.

Fades , to technology in Google and major mobile carriers want Europe to regulate Apple's iMessage platform

Google is so fucking pathetic these days. They can’t out program them so they cry to the EU instead

dependencyinjection , to technology in Google and major mobile carriers want Europe to regulate Apple's iMessage platform

Although, I get the argument and sure go ahead and do it.

I have to laugh at Google calling for the regulation of Apples monopoly but are happy to maintain their monopolies.

It’s be like Apple calling out Bowers & Wilkins for high prices.

Or Bezos calling for more piss breaks for Walmart staff.

Glass houses and stones.

erwan ,

That’s how corporations think. For them the law is just a set of weapons against their competitors.

miridius , to technology in Google and major mobile carriers want Europe to regulate Apple's iMessage platform

Nobody in EU uses SMS, it stopped being a thing as soon as everyone had phones with internet and you could use better chat apps. So we don’t give a crap about iMessage being open or not.

Mr_Blott ,

I only just found out this year that text messages from IPhone or Android are a different colour in the US, and people would judge you on that.

Fuckin hell, that’s elementary-school-level behaviour 😂

sanitetah ,

I use SMS a lot, in the EU. So does, most of my family, and friends. So idk where you get this from? GF and her friends and family too.

uis ,
@uis@lemmy.world avatar

You probably use SMS mostly for getting codes

Kyiro ,

If you’re all on Android, it’s very likely you’re using RCS not SMS

straypet ,

Why?

erwan ,

Because he’s wrong, most people use text in Europe. Even if it’s addition to an app like WhatsApp.

straypet , (edited )

Only if you count receiving verification codes as “Using SMS”. Even my elderly parents only use messaging apps.

I don’t have anyone I contact through SMS.

There are a ton of different page patterns so I don’t think “Everyone” or “No one” is using SMS.

But, in my experience, they are used very very little by most people.

Rootiest ,
@Rootiest@lemmy.world avatar

My understanding is that while the US and some others quickly moved to unlimited texting plans, many European countries continued to charge per text so apps like WhatsApp become the defacto replacement

erwan ,

In France we got unlimited texts at about the same time as unlimited data.

I don’t think a plan with unlimited data and limited texts ever existed.

pajn ,

In Sweden I can’t remember the last time I saw a plan that didn’t include unlimited sms and calls. Only thing marketed is data. However if you really search for them I guess it’s still possible to buy something else somewhere.

Rootiest ,
@Rootiest@lemmy.world avatar

Yes this was many years ago. Nobody pays per-text anymore but the past restrictions influenced people’s preferred messaging services in a way that stuck

Kyiro ,

No, even if people didn’t use SMS, Apple market share is actually growing and it could lead to iMessage becoming dominant like it is in the US. Even if it won’t benefit us much, I’m sure Americans would appreciate the EU caring about it because the US government could never do it.

miridius ,

People with iPhones don’t use iMessage either. They use WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal etc.

Kyiro ,

WhatsApp is not a thing at all in Poland mate. It’s either SMS/RCS or fucking Messenger which has to be the worst one 😭

Honytawk ,
Kyiro ,

Might be a western/southern Polish thing. I only know my uncles use it to talk to their children in Britain.

miridius ,

Oh man that sucks! I already hate that I have to use WhatsApp with people who don’t have Telegram, I’d be so angry if I had to use Messenger and even more angry if I had to SMS

Xia ,

I’m in the EU, I still use a lot the sms

miridius ,

Interesting! Why?

pajn ,

What else is there to use? SMS is the only cross platform protocol that works. MMS is horrible and Apple refuses ro support RCS. Of course SMS apps auto upgrades to RCS if both parties supports it which is in practice only between Androids.

miridius ,

Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp, ICQ, FB messenger, Matrix, just to name a few!

pajn ,

None of those work without both people having the app and so provide a much worse experience over SMS, just why?

Erasmus , to technology in Google and major mobile carriers want Europe to regulate Apple's iMessage platform
@Erasmus@lemmy.world avatar

As much as I have been on the EU’s side on every case that they’ve had against Apple. This should be a giant red flag that Google is pushing this so hard.

Zummy , to technology in Google and major mobile carriers want Europe to regulate Apple's iMessage platform

I get that this is a silly issue that only a subset of Americans actually care about, but if you think that Google is doing this for any other reason other than that they don’t like how popular iMessage is and want it to end, you’re fooling yourself. Google hopes to eventually make more money when one barrier between an Android and iPhone is removed.

pascal , (edited ) to technology in Google and major mobile carriers want Europe to regulate Apple's iMessage platform

Oh, now you want Europe’s strong arm? Google? Now? Fuck off, you yankee!

EDIT: Also, we European literally don’t care. Everyone is using Whatsapp or Telegram. There’s no “Blue vs green bubble” war here in Europe, only America can get angry on such idiocy.

BearOfaTime ,

Let’s be clear - only a subset of Americans care about the bubbles. And it’s annoying to the rest of us too.

The iMessage approach is the obvious solution, Google had a competitor over 10 years ago and killed it. Signal took the same approach and killed SMS just this year.

It’s frustrating, because US has the particular problem of SMS being ubiquitous because it became zero-additional-cost for most people by about 2005. The same mindset that keeps people on SMS also creates the blue-bubble nonsense: ease of use and not having to think about it. Signal was making inroads on this, makes me wonder why they stopped supporting SMS.

I have friends who say “I don’t want to have to think about where to message someone”. Oh, ffs, do you struggle with calling their home/work/cell, or choosing to email or send a letter?

So yea, it’s not America vs the rest of the world, it’s us vs the complacent/unaware.

MySwellMojo ,

Call someone? In America? They’d rather text. I’m in one of these group messages, apparently my bubble is a different color. Though I like my phone from Taiwan, so they can deal with it

Rootiest ,
@Rootiest@lemmy.world avatar

I use Beeper and it blows the minds of those iMessage dorks

BearOfaTime ,

Lol, yep.

I don’t take unscheduled calls. My phone doesn’t even ring, I see nothing. All calls are forwarded to voicemail unless I’ve set them not to. I don’t have time for unsolicited calls (and 99.9% of calls I get are spam).

If my bubble color is a problem for you, it’s a problem for you, not me.

Let’s be clear, Apple users who refuse to use other apps are excluding 80% of other users. We need to make it painful for them, not help work around the issue. It was their choice to use an app that can’t be used by most people.

Hell, I carry an iPhone for work, and use multiple apps there.

RGB3x3 , (edited ) to technology in Google and major mobile carriers want Europe to regulate Apple's iMessage platform

All I want is to be able to message people using discord through Signal. Or from Messages to Whatsapp. And just be able to send and receive decent quality videos between iMessage and non-imessage users.

It’s so annoying having to juggle so many different messaging apps just to talk to people.

Why can’t it be like email?

BearOfaTime ,

Because each platform is for a different use-case. Discord sucks. It’s one of the worst UI/UX I’ve ever seen, and I’ve been using computers since the late 70’s…punched cards are only slightly worse.

13617 ,

I could understand that until I experienced discords new mobile UI and the countless competitors. Definitely discord is better than all the others

Jarix ,

Did you use ventrilo, teamspeak, icq, irc, any 90s chatroom?

Ui/ux has been pretty good for me who did in comparison

Resol ,
@Resol@lemmy.world avatar

Federated messaging services… this is actually a really cool idea.

But I guess big companies prefer walled gardens because it makes more money.

Rootiest ,
@Rootiest@lemmy.world avatar

Try Beeper!

Links all those services into one client using Matrix for the backend.

Drop me a DM if you want a referral code (that goes for anyone interested!)

AaronNBrock , to technology in Google and major mobile carriers want Europe to regulate Apple's iMessage platform

Until Google supports RCS on Google voice, I can’t take their requests seriously.

Salamendacious OP ,
@Salamendacious@lemmy.world avatar

That’s an interesting point. I have Google voice but I honestly don’t use it much. Are you a big Google voice user?

AaronNBrock ,

Yes. But it has “forgotten by Google” energy. It wouldn’t shock me if it joins the Google graveyard.

BearOfaTime ,

RCS is too little, too late. Its encryption is problematic, and people currently using it can tell you how inconsistent it is. It’s what you get when industry players want to control things.

Why build RCS when everyone could use an existing, extensible protocol like XMPP? Yes, XMPP isn’t perfect, but had the RCS consortium started there, then agreed to support specific features, we’d have a much better solution today.

iMessage works.

plz1 , to technology in Google and major mobile carriers want Europe to regulate Apple's iMessage platform

So Google will reciprocate and open up its RCS platform right? Right? I doubt it.

Prethoryn ,
@Prethoryn@lemmy.world avatar

If this law passes they may very well have to.

JasSmith ,
plz1 ,

I don’t care as long as the result isn’t less secure or less private than iMessage is now. Google has zero percent of my trust at this point, on the privacy front.

Rootiest ,
@Rootiest@lemmy.world avatar

RCS is an open standard not owned by Google

plz1 ,

I meant their closed network for it, not the standard.

Rootiest ,
@Rootiest@lemmy.world avatar

Just thought it was worth clarifying since a lot of people treat RCS and Google Messages like the same thing when one is a Google product (Google Messages) and the other is an open standard (RCS)

Google Messages is built on RCS but if Apple wanted interoperability they would only need to support the open standard (RCS) not use any of Google’s code or require Google’s permission.

01adrianrdgz , to technology in Google and major mobile carriers want Europe to regulate Apple's iMessage platform
@01adrianrdgz@lemmy.world avatar

finally!! i’ve seen how google has been treating the situation with apple and i kind of think apple does have a bit of dislike-bias for android because it’s open source and linux. well, i hope apple stops the green message bubble feature.

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