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blog.mozilla.org

captainjaneway , to technology in Mozilla roll out first AI features in Firefox Nightly
@captainjaneway@lemmy.world avatar

I think it makes sense. I like ChatGPT and I appreciate having easy access to it. What I really wish is the option to use local models instead. I realize most people don’t have machines that can tokenize quickly enough but for those that do…

maxinstuff ,
@maxinstuff@lemmy.world avatar

Seconding this. Why not allow people to run llama3 or other open source models?

ahal ,

From the post:

Whether it’s a local or a cloud-based model, if you want to use AI, we think you should have the freedom to use (or not use) the tools that best suit your needs

GolfNovemberUniform , to technology in Mozilla roll out first AI features in Firefox Nightly
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

Looks like the “local AI only” idea was purged in favor of some Big Tech stuff that can give Mozilla some fat cash for promoting their services! Mozilla’s second (or third idk at this point lol) downfall is looking really strong with all their recent decisions. WebKit is another independent engine that still doesn’t seem to suck in terms of enshittification but it’s basically not used anywhere except Apple ecosystem. Chromium is getting a full monopoly yay.

captainjaneway ,
@captainjaneway@lemmy.world avatar

Well I’m guessing they actually did testing on local AI using a 4GB and 8GB RAM laptop and realized it would be an awful user experience. It’s just too slow.

I wish they rolled it in as an option though.

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

They wanted to use fast small language models, not LLMs like Llama

Suoko ,
@Suoko@feddit.it avatar

Llamafile with tinyllama model is 640mb. It could be a flag to enable or an extension

daniskarma ,

I do self host several AI applications for myself on a low end device and I think for most lowend even mid devices local AI is unfeasible. Nowadays is too much resource heavy and times are too long without high end devices.

For my computer generating a description of a picture (one of the firefox new features) could easily take up to 5-10 minutes with the cpu at 100%. That’s just not viable for doing while browsing.

Anyway I would love for firefox to open source the server side of this. So in case someone have s computer powerful enough they could do it locally if they want to.

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

Still adding proprietary and actually evil AI providers is a questionable decision.

dinckelman , to technology in Mozilla roll out first AI features in Firefox Nightly

I wish they spent their time fixing bugs, rather than implementing this bullshit

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@fedia.io avatar

Why not both? A large project like this needs to fix bugs and also continue to refine its features for long term relevance.

dinckelman ,

You will never achieve long-term relevance, by chasing immediately available buzzwords

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@fedia.io avatar

How long does AI need to be used, and how much demand needs to be sustained, for it to stop being called a "buzzword"? I'm a little dubious that NVIDIA became literally the most highly-valued company on Earth off the back of a mere "buzzword."

unautrenom ,

AI may have its uses, but the easy counterpoint to your argument is to look at FTX at its peak and where it is now (bankrupt). The stock exchange is the exact opposite of rational, and is terrible at estimating the use one can get out of tech.

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@fedia.io avatar

FTX was a cryptocurrency exchange, how is that remotely similar to NVIDIA?

dinckelman ,

Can you reminds us what the current state of NFTs is? Or most crypto? Web3 tech? This is next.

Of course Nvidia are the highest-valued company. They capitalized on idiots misusing the technology, until it created issues in society, for personal gain.

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@fedia.io avatar

Can you remind me how those technologies are related, other than the mere accusation of them being "buzzwords"?

Cryptocurrency is actually doing fine, BTW. Just because you don't find it useful doesn't mean it's not useful to other people.

Mikina ,

Crypto is doing kind-of ok. But what about other blockchain apps and startups, or blockchain integrations into every tech imaginable? There were so many popping up, just like there are with AI now. Business models and use-cases that are based solely on the hype of the tech in question, without any consideration about whether it’s actually a good fit for the tech. That is the point, and what it has common with AI and other “buzzwords”.

bamboo ,

How do any of those things have anything to do with LLMs? You’re just listing a bunch of random tech that isn’t particularly impactful and claiming that another unrelated thing must be a failure.

AbidanYre ,

It doesn’t seem like end users are the ones demanding AI.

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@fedia.io avatar

I am an end user and I find it quite handy for a number of applications.

The reasoning "I don't find it useful and therefore nobody finds it useful" is common in these sorts of threads.

AbidanYre ,

If the sentiment is that common, maybe there’s something to it.

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@fedia.io avatar

You made an assertion about what end users want. I'm an end user and my desires are not the same as your desires.

But if the sentiment is that common, maybe there's something to it.

Or maybe it's just a common fallacy. Like argumentum ad populum.

AbidanYre ,

I made a generalization based on the abundance of comments from people saying they don’t want AI. Your desires may not be the desires of the majority of users.

Or maybe it’s just a common fallacy. Like argumentum ad populum.

It’s not. Saying a bunch of people don’t want something because a bunch of people are saying they don’t want it isn’t argumentum ad populum. I never made an assessment about whether AI was good or bad.

If you want to argue that Lemmy doesn’t represent users at large, or that the people complaining about AI are a loud minority, go for it. But the vast majority of comments on anything AI related seem opposed to it.

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@fedia.io avatar

If you want to argue that Lemmy doesn't represent users at large, or that the people complaining about AI are a loud minority, go for it.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing. Though specifically this community, not Lemmy as a whole (I'm not a Lemmy user myself for that matter).

bamboo ,

I’m with you on this one. I love Lemmy, but it’s a small community here and skews towards a very specific foss tech nerd demographic that doesn’t represent the general population in any way. It seems like most users are aware of that but not everybody is self-aware enough to realize that. I like trying out AI features, I like to see them be integrated into software so they can be more useful. They’re not perfect at all but just because they’re not perfect doesn’t mean they should be abandoned in their entirety.

iopq ,

I’m an end user and I demand text to speech AI

Openopenopenopen ,

Can I ask areal question? I’m not trying to be a dick or smart ass, I legit don’t get this. What is bullshit here? I read the article and it seems like a useful feature to me.

“this week, we will launch an opt-in experiment”

“those who have opted-in will have the option to access their preferred AI service from the Firefox sidebar”

Is this opt in only feature really terrible? Because as a user of ai, not switching tabs sounds like a nice new feature to me.

dinckelman , (edited )

I strongly believe that generative AI is catastrophically misused in the vast majority of its applications, so in my eyes, adding gpt-based AI to the browser is largely a wasted effort

Poot , to technology in Mozilla roll out first AI features in Firefox Nightly
@Poot@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

“Trustworthy AI” + Recent aquisiton of an advertising analytics company + a call for people to inform on third party sources of Firefox = Down the enshitification rabbit hole we go.

theskyisfalling ,

Any recommendations of a good alternative on android? I’m thinking I’ll move to librewolf on desktop but they don’t appear to have an android version.

maynarkh ,

I do like Mull, but I’m also uninformed and I don’t use my mobile browser all too much.

theskyisfalling ,

Fair enough, research time for me! Thanks for the reply

cravl ,

I use a fork from F-Droid called Fennec. I’m not sure off the top of my head how closely it tracks with upstream feature-wise but I know it strips out all of Mozilla’s tracking components and it’s always updated within a couple days of the upstream release.

theskyisfalling ,

Thanks for the recommendation, I’ll check it out!

CalcProgrammer1 ,
@CalcProgrammer1@lemmy.ml avatar

I use Fennec F-Droid on Android and LibreWolf on Linux/Mac/Windows.

theskyisfalling ,

Thanks for the recommendation :D

sunzu ,

Everybody in the know is already using privacy forks on PC and phones... i guess it is time to get normies on boarded.

Man, they really are making it complicated though. If you want to fight them, jgot to keep switching. They know normies won't :/

gnuhaut , to technology in Mozilla roll out first AI features in Firefox Nightly

trustworthy AI

Our initial offering will include ChatGPT, Google Gemini, HuggingChat, and Le Chat Mistral

What

unexposedhazard ,

Defund Mozilla lmao. Absolute shipwreck of a company at this point.

Openopenopenopen ,

Did you read the article? Why would adding an option to use ai in a side bar require shuttering a company?

“this week, we will launch an opt-in experiment”

And

“those who have opted-in will have the option to access their preferred AI service from the Firefox sidebar”

unexposedhazard ,

If you are so keen to know, then you will just have to wait a few more years. Firefoxes development is rapidly derailing into nonsense recently. They will have to either kick out their current leadership or they will be reduced to a data sucking, adware company sooner or later.

skulblaka ,
@skulblaka@sh.itjust.works avatar

Oh yes, as opposed to Google or Microsoft who definitely aren’t already data-sucking, predatory adware companies. No thanks, I’ll stick with the lesser evil.

If you’re going to lie to everyone at least make it sound believable.

unexposedhazard ,

Do you read any tech news? If so how did u miss every single mozilla headline of the past months? Something being the lesser evil doesnt turn truths into lies.

vxx ,

So you admit you’re only reading headlines and base your opinion on it?

Did the thought cross your mind that all the billion dollar companies behind for-profit browsers might have an interest in Firefox failing?

admin ,
@admin@lemmy.my-box.dev avatar

At least this is opt-in, and Firefox still allows for manifest v3 extensions, and, on the whole, isn’t using a engine funded by a billion dollar company that’s doing everything in it’s power to spy on you.

unexposedhazard ,

Yeah i was kinda overreacting but it really isnt looking good for firefoxes future at this point imo. As long as its open source there will at least be forks like librewolf.

dukethorion ,
@dukethorion@lemmy.world avatar

Their whole company is funded by a billion dollar company that’s doing everything in its power to spy on you.

librejoe ,

Who do we turn to for a browser? Not chromium based I don’t trust google codebase.

unexposedhazard ,

Yeah idk either sadly. But i know that having only two relevant browsers on the market is like the US party system. Destined to fail.

Nothing lasts forever just like Steam or anything else will one day turn to shit. But pretending like everything is fine will just lead to lots of “we shouldve seen it coming”.

librejoe ,

I think it comes down to what you’re willing to sacrifice. If I can do banking that’s the hard line for me, so JS at the very least.

mostlikelyaperson ,

Idk I still hope a Servo-based browser somehow materializes itself someday, but if/when that happens, who knows.

autonomoususer , to technology in Mozilla roll out first AI features in Firefox Nightly

Local or service as a software substitute?

ZILtoid1991 ,

They actually plan to use some local stuff in addition to the rest, otherwise I don’t trust anything OpenAI/Google.

forgotmylastusername , to technology in Mozilla acquired Anonym, an ad start-up

This is the same kind of framing Google used when they were considered the little guy on your side as opposed to big evil corp.

CalcProgrammer1 , to technology in Mozilla acquired Anonym, an ad start-up
@CalcProgrammer1@lemmy.ml avatar

Honestly, Mozilla has been peddling adware for a long time now. The writing has been on the wall. It started with putting sponsored links to Amazon on the Firefox home screen, then the shitty Pocket acquisition and the stupid featured stories/recommendations garbage, then the full screen Mozilla VPN ads…Firefox has been adware for a while. Use a fork that removes the bullshit. Switch to LibreWolf.

delirious_owl , to technology in Mozilla acquired Anonym, an ad start-up
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

Dear Mozilla, please stop being google.

Thanks.

AnomalousBit , to technology in Mozilla acquired Anonym, an ad start-up

I wish Mozilla had been really clear about their intentions and end goals with this acquisition. On the face of it, it looks terrible. Especially when you look at their jettisoning of Servo.

What the hell are they up to if making a browser engine isn’t a core competency, but buying an ad company is considered a wise move?

devfuuu ,

One is just spending money, the other potentially brings you money in.

AnomalousBit ,

Well that’s cool if they want to become an ad company, but last I checked they are known for making a browser. I’m sure they’ll do so much better than Oracle in the ad business. /s

Microw ,

They are known for making a browser that constantly puts them into a financial deficit. Mozilla is still looking for a way to pay their bills in the long run.

Vivendi ,

Servo wasn’t going anywhere and even today the absolute best they are trying to do is to be a tiny embedded engine. They took parts of projects that were worth shit and added it into their core ecosystem and stopped the vanity dream of making a whole new browser core.

So, servo is dead long live servo

Maeve , to technology in Mozilla acquired Anonym, an ad start-up

About Anonym: Anonym was founded in 2022 by former Meta executives Brad Smallwood and Graham Mudd. The company was backed by Griffin Gaming Partners, Norwest Venture Partners, Heracles Capital as well as a number of strategic individual investors.

Completely reassuring.

refalo ,

a browser with 2% market share isn’t getting anywhere without lots of money. I fail to see the issue?

huginn ,

The issue is fuck ads

toastboy79 ,

That's a fair position, but let me ask. Are you donating to Mozilla on a monthly basis?

huginn ,

Yes. Just like I donate to my Lemmy host on a regular basis.

I even pay for YouTube, despite using Vanced.

Fuck ads.

toastboy79 ,

Hell yeah man, carry on then. Nice to meet someone who walks the walk while talking the talk

Bitrot ,

The Mozilla Corporation does not accept donations.

huginn ,

Sorta. The foundation does.

foundation.mozilla.org/en/donate/

Bitrot ,

Yes, and they don’t develop Firefox (legally can’t) since they made a for-profit entity for that purpose.

huginn ,

Hmm maybe I stop donating then… I’ll have to dig into where my money is actually going.

apfelwoiSchoppen , to technology in Mozilla acquired Anonym, an ad start-up
@apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.world avatar

When you get most of your funding from Google, you might start to act like Google.

Spotlight7573 ,

Looking at it most favorably, if they ever want to not be dependent on Google, they need revenue to replace what they get from Google and like it or not much of the money online comes from advertising. If they can find a way to get that money without being totally invasive on privacy, that’s still better than their current position.

apfelwoiSchoppen ,
@apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.world avatar

In my view that isn’t favorable. It is perhaps real, but it still doesn’t sit well as we know where it likely leads.

refalo ,

most people are stupid. you and I don’t click on ads, sure, but how do you think google got all their money? you have to cater to the idiots.

CrypticCoffee , to technology in Mozilla acquired Anonym, an ad start-up

I think the important thing is consent to use data. If I can control what data I share with them, it isn’t the end of the world. If I choose to not, and it’s honoured, then this is a good thing. I’d prefer this approach funding development to Mozilla not being able to compete.

Mozilla is a far superior company to Google.

refalo ,

they shouldn’t have the data in the first place. constant data leaks have shown us that is the only way to have some privacy.

MurrayL , to technology in Mozilla acquired Anonym, an ad start-up

Advertising isn’t going anywhere, so investing in/supporting ways to more ethically serve ads without harvesting private data seems like a good thing?

uzay ,

Becoming an ad company while trying to put privacy first seems like a conflict of interests in the making

MurrayL ,

It’s definitely making their job harder on the face of it, but it also differentiates them from other ad companies, so I guess they’re betting on that being a draw for potential clients.

AllNewTypeFace ,
@AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space avatar

As Jamie Zawinski put it, it’s like a non-profit animal shelter setting up a sideline selling kitten meat to satisfy demands for hockey-stick growth. If somebody castigates them for it, they can point out that the demand for kitten deli slices didn’t going to go away, and if they didn’t sell them, someone else would step in and do it less humanely.

Trainguyrom ,

There’s actually a real world example of this. Some cats that are disected in schools are euthanized cats from shelters, because the alternative is cat farms that breed cats just to be killed and disected

Empricorn ,

Worse than being a pro-privacy company that utterly depends on Google?

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

It’s not, at all. When you drive by a billboard on the highway, is it invading your privacy? There’s no reason there can’t be a digital equivalent.

jjjalljs ,

That’s what I always say. Targeted advertising should be illegal. Contextual advertising is acceptable.

If I’m on the star trek wiki, serve me ads for star trek, sci-fi, and whatever. You don’t need to know anything about me specifically.

We’d still need to do something about like ads that take up too much space, hurt page performance, or introduce malware, but removing the stalking would be an improvement

Trainguyrom ,

Contextual ads can be simple images/html without 20 thousand scripts buried in

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Right, and something like Reddit makes targeted advertising SUPER easy, with zero personal information.

Want to know what kind of products I might be interested in? Literally just ask.

ms_lane ,

When you drive by a billboard on the highway, is it invading your privacy?

Possibly?

Let me rephrase it a little- When you walk past a digital advertising screen at a Westfield Shopping Centre - is it invading your privacy? (The answer is a definite YES, they have facial tracking and keep metrics on where you go in the mall, how long you loiter in certain locations, what stores you go, whether you came back out with bags, etc)

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Once again, that is an issue with implementation, and not an issue inherent in advertising in general.

skullgiver ,
@skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

Advertising doesn’t need to be privacy infringing. That’s something from the last 20 years. No conflict of interest necessary if all they do is ads.

Blizzard ,

When everyone start using adblockers then it will go away and companies will have to come with new business models. I have been using adblockers since the first adblock was released and I don’t see ads so it’s up to the people. Better invest in/support ways to block ads.

wizardbeard ,

Same, but surely you realize that ads have only gotten worse in the intervening time. I also don’t truly believe that we’ll ever reach critical mass on adblocker users. You’re asking people who don’t care, who don’t use the internet the same way we do, to suddenly care enough to take manual action outside of their knowledgebase amd comfort zone.

The only way the adblocker user numbers get pumped up to critical mass for a change is if a popular default browser makes adblocking an opt-out default.

Blizzard ,

You’re asking people who don’t care, who don’t use the internet the same way we do, to suddenly care enough to take manual action outside of their knowledgebase amd comfort zone

If they don’t care about ads then they won’t care if those ads are private or not.

thejml ,

I will say that we’re definitely getting to a level of adblockers that the sites actively care about blocking content or warning about people using adblockers. It’s starting to affect their bottom lines.

webghost0101 , (edited )

Why? Does 95% of digital advertisement even serve a single valuable purpose?

I get that websites need funding and that legitimate business require some way communicate their services exist. We need to solve the problem for the former and create specialized accessible safe spaces for the later.

When is the last time anyone here saw an ad for a local business, when is the last time anyone recall willfully clicking one? Was there actually anything useful there?

From what i recall ads almost always are one of the following:

  • sex, barely legal drugs and predatory video games. (Lumped together to make a bad pun)
  • real product/fake price: oh this item isnt in stock plz look at catalog
  • politics, buy our guide to get rich, actual illegal scam operation.

None of them are honest or respectful to the customer. People aren’t prey, stop baiting.

Admittedly, for me this is personal. Autism means i experience the extra noise as painful. Plastering it on useful websites feels like a hostile attack to keep me out and unwelcome. I downright refuse to look at watch nor will i support them through ad free subscriptions to the point of it having become a digital disability.

But come on, can we smart online people really not figure out something else that isn’t based on literal brainwashing.

5C5C5C ,

I think a long time ago a vicious cycle began in the advertising space where predatory ads had more incentive to pay for ad space, so sensible people start to perceive ads in general as predatory. Now no sensible advertiser that’s trying to promote a legitimate product for legitimate reasons will do so by buying ad space, thus reinforcing the increasingly accurate perception that all ads are predatory.

wizardbeard ,

As well as predatory/not, there’s also a trend with attention grabbing/not.

There was a period of time where Google AdWords ruled the online ad space, and most ads were pure text in a box with a border making the border between content and ads visually distinct.

Kind of like having small portions of the newspaper classified section cut out and slapped around the webpage.

I still disliked them, but they were fairly easy to look past, and you didn’t have to worry about the ad itself carrying a malware payload (just whatever they linked to).

Companies found that those style ads get less clickthrough than flashier ones, and that there’s no quantifiable incentive to not make their ads as obnoxious as possible. So they optimized for the wrong metric: clickthrough vs sales by ad.

More recently, companies have stepped up their tracking game so they can target sales by ad more effectively, but old habits die hard, and predatory ads that just want you to click have no incentive to care and “de-escalate” the obnoxiousness.

delirious_owl ,
@delirious_owl@discuss.online avatar

The alternative was supposed to be idle crypto mining

001Guy001 , to technology in Mozilla Welcomes Anonym: Privacy Preserving Digital Advertising

for anybody that wants to disable it, go to the settings and search for “Allow websites to perform privacy-preserving ad measurement”

(or through the dom.private-attribution.submission.enabled flag in about:config)

…mozilla.org/…/privacy-preserving-attribution

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