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blog.mozilla.org

transistor , to technology in Mozilla will open Firefox for Android for more extensions
@transistor@lemdro.id avatar

This is great.

sunflower_scribe , to technology in Mozilla will open Firefox for Android for more extensions

Now, if only iOS would allow true Safari alternatives. 🥲

PonyOfWar ,

They’ll soon be forced to allow sideloading, in the EU at least. Should open the doors for proper alternative browsers.

Blizzard ,

I wonder what the alternatives to App Store will be called. F-Store? iDroid?

cupcakezealot ,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

They’d still be restricted to the Webkit rendering engine though, right?

Aasikki ,

If you can sideload anything you want, why would that be the case? I don’t think there’s a technical limitation, they just don’t allow it on the app store if it doesn’t use safari.

cupcakezealot ,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Oh that’s true, I always thought iOS just didn’t have that capability at all but that makes sense that it would just be blocked at the App Store level.

jmcs ,

If you can sideload an app there’s nothing Apple can do to stop you from shipping a new rendering engine.

realharo ,

They can still prevent the JIT from working because the resulting native code would not be signed. That would result in worse JavaScript performance in such browsers, but considering today’s hardware and software optimizations, it may not matter that much in practice.

maynarkh ,

Yes, but the point of the law is that apps that you install that are not from the official store actually have to work. It even has clauses so that installing stuff from different sources than Apple can’t intentionally be a worse experience than the official app IIRC. That might be just for messaging though.

realharo ,

I don’t think they allow JIT in their App Store apps either.

TheEntity ,

I loathe the very fact they made people call it "sideloading". It's just installing on your own terms, like it used to be the norm.

pjhenry1216 ,

Well, it's a carry over from its early days in how it used to work. You needed to install things via USB debugger. Generally that's all sideloading ever meant, transferring information from one device to another using a generally "local" method (SD card, USB, etc). Now sideloading, on Android at least (as it retains its original meaning elsewhere), just means not from the official repository.

LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.one avatar

I just activated Windows 10 on a laptop I bought from ebay, and I was reminded that Microsoft too wants people to view its official store as the default way to obtain software.

One of my goals for this weekend is to set up a dual boot for Linux Mint, which I’ve never done before. I’m fully aware of its limitations, but I’m getting so tired of all this crap.

pjhenry1216 ,

Yeah, I'm not sure what Microsoft is attempting with S mode. Its just such a half baked concept to me. I'd rather a simplified group policy interface or something if they wanted simplified restrictions.

But yeah, dual booting is a great way to transition. You can also do Windows in a VM, but not sure how licensing works or if you can use an OEM license in there.

LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.one avatar

It just seems much better for me to set up a dual boot. I know it’s more work, but it’s not like it’s irreversible, and I think it would give me a better experience overall.

LucidNightmare ,

There are a few Linux distros I can recommend as someone who started doing this as a little tinker project when I was younger.

Pop_OS! Is a really great basic setup to help usher you into Linux. I installed the KDE desktop environment onto my install because I really like and enjoy the KDE experience. You have plenty of other Ubuntu “flavors” to choose from. I’d recommend giving them all a whirl or look and decide which one you think is the best fit for you.

ElementaryOS is great if you want a semi-MacOS experience but I feel it is perfect for someone who doesn’t want to tinker around too much or for family members to use on their 10 year old laptops/desktops.

I also recommend not fully setting your Linux side up (email, saving documents, etc.) until you get done with your testing different distros out. You’ll be thankful you didn’t go through the full setup process if you decide to try a new distro out. Have fun, and remember it’s all a learning experience. Don’t be afraid to ask for question or look anything up. If you finally find a distro you want to make permanent and remember me, I’d love to hear what you settled on. Have a wonderful rest of your day. And enjoy your newfound freedom! 😌

LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.one avatar

Thanks, I’ll bookmark your comment so I can come back to it

LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.one avatar

Does this comment seem fresher from Linux :P

I finally got Linux Mint set up and joined the forums. First I tried it as a dual boot, but my old laptop never played well with Windows anyway, so I went ahead and did a full install. It’s got a HDD so I don’t feel to concerned about using this as a test machine and overwriting multiple times.

After I use this for a while, I want to try some of your recommendations. Then once I find exactly what I want, I’ll consider what I want to do with my main rig. Some people have warned against dual booting, but it worked just fine for the short time I had it set up like that.

Anyway, I still have your comment saved for reference, so thanks!

LucidNightmare ,

I’d go as far as to say it’s… MINTy fresh!

I dual boot Pop with KDE and Windows 11 on my laptop while trying to use the Pop side more. I need the Windows side for playing games when traveling so I can’t fully integrate into Linux just yet. No problem at all, and I hope you’ll be able to sudo apt yourself into the perfect distro just for you!

LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.one avatar

I actually think I’m going to enjoy trying out different versions. The official Linux Mint forums pretty much say no dual boot, go all in, but shhhhh don’t tell them that dual booting actually works just fine lol

LucidNightmare ,

I have had some problem with some Distros not appreciating Windows being installed first, and some distros require more hoops to be jumped through to get it working than others, but dual booting is worth it in my use case and therefore is a requirement to even have Linux on the laptop to begin with. I love it to bits, but I bought the laptop to game!

LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.one avatar

I’ve had people try talking me into using my main rig as a full Linux system, but I think I’d never do anything except dual boot because I appreciate the performance I get for games that don’t support native Linux way too much for that.

If it weren’t for gaming, I’d gladly take the plunge.

Camilo ,

I hope you have fun! You can ask anytime for help, it’s a great learning opportunity

LinkOpensChest_wav ,
@LinkOpensChest_wav@lemmy.one avatar

I have an old laptop that I’m planning to use to test different versions of Linux so I can get a feel for it. I will let you know if I have questions. I appreciate the kind offer!

jvrava9 ,
@jvrava9@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Very sad that Firefox does not provide an .ipa file of firefox without webkit. Jailbroken, trollstore and altstore users could benefit of extensions before apple allows sideloading.

lloram239 , to technology in France’s browser-based website blocking proposal sets a disastrous precedent for the open internet

Why target the browser for fraud prevention? How about targeting banks? They are the middle man for almost all the online fraud that is happening and would have an relatively easy time to shut it off. Make them liable for all the money that leaves the bank account without the users expressed consent and it wouldn’t take long until they introduce security measures that actually work.

myrmidex ,

Ex-banker president targets banks… Now that’d be quite an unexpecred headline! Shame it’ll never be.

TWeaK ,

Because France is so authoritarian they can get away with using such a flimsy excuse. The President pushed through the pension age change without letting Parliament vote on it, and nothing happened with that - why should anything happen with this? And even if something does happen, they’re starting a few steps below “think of the children!!” excuse so they’ve pre-emptively low-balled the negotiation.

jonsnothere ,

I have to disagree here. Disclaimer: I work for a bank but not super into the core financial stuff. Firstly, banks are already super heavily regulated; anti money laundering, terrorism financing, know your customer, etc. The reason crypto takes minutes for international transfers and banks can take days isn’t because of technology, it’s all of those checks on fraud happening. All the money leaving a bank account is, barring very advanced fraud, with the user’s consent, but in fraud cases this is often done via social engineering (calling someone to get their codes from their bank card reader, or pretending to be a family member in need).

yum13241 , to technology in France’s browser-based website blocking proposal sets a disastrous precedent for the open internet

Fuck France.

moitoi , to technology in France’s browser-based website blocking proposal sets a disastrous precedent for the open internet

France is a fallen democracy. It became law after law more authoritarian in an Orban/Poland style. The last move of the government give some ints if the politics are still in power or if it become a police state. For those who aren’t aware of this last move in the country, after nearly killing someone, a cop was preventively put in jail according to the law. Nothing wrong here. But, the police unions voiced this was not acceptable and made proposal so cops could not jailed preventively. The gov just said “we are going to look at the proposal” without rejecting them even if these proposal are against the rule of law and Principe of democracy.

More about this shitshow

marco , (edited )
@marco@beehaw.org avatar

France is a fallen democracy.

Both of the things you complain about are in discussion, not coded into law. Obviously, we want to oppose such proposals, more dangerous though is the “Child Sexual Abuse Regulation” (Chatkontrolle), a proposed EU law that would bring filters to all of Europe.

moitoi ,
noodle , to technology in France’s browser-based website blocking proposal sets a disastrous precedent for the open internet
@noodle@feddit.uk avatar

This is how you end up with no browsers except Opera and Edge.

I’m just glad it isn’t the UK proposing something this dumb. We’re doing enough stupid shit as it is.

Plume , to technology in France’s browser-based website blocking proposal sets a disastrous precedent for the open internet

Why does my country keeps doing shit like this! I wasn’t even aware of that one, what the hell! ;-;

nixnoodle , to technology in France’s browser-based website blocking proposal sets a disastrous precedent for the open internet

While I could see maybe the larger companies operating in France agreeing to implement this, I don’t think they would be able to legally force a smaller foreign open source browser developer into the same practice? Take qutebrowser for instance, the developer is from Switzerland. Unless their website is hosted in France, I don’t see how French law applies to him, nor the site he is hosting the browser on? They would have to use ISPs to block the website, but even then, you could still get it through GitHub. Maybe GitHub could be forced into removing the browser as Microsoft probably have a French office, but it still seems like a legal and practical nightmare to actually enforce this through the browser. As someone else mentioned, pushing rules on ISPs seems like a more doable thing if you WANT to oppress people (which I am also against of course).

styx ,

While they may not be able to force small developers, they can force the users by deeming all browsers that do not implement this feature illegal. This possibly will not work on the tech savvy, but standard users (the majority) will be affected.

nixnoodle ,

That’s true, I was just so baffled by how inconvenient and inefficient this suggestion was. I’m reminded of one of these photos, which I think have been used for many internet proposals/legislations in the past: https://beehaw.org/pictrs/image/1f54ab00-2c92-4155-beec-033a4892ff39.webp

tooLikeTheNope ,
irasponsible ,

Wouldn’t it end up implemented somewhere inside Chromium?

nixnoodle ,

Probably, but in theory you would be able to take out in a fork. Inconvenient, but doable hopefully.

bbbhltz , to technology in France’s browser-based website blocking proposal sets a disastrous precedent for the open internet
@bbbhltz@beehaw.org avatar

Interesting share. Thanks.

I live in France and we are more interested in the part of this law that wants to put age restrictions on pornographic websites, so this is the first I’ve heard of it.

Jean-Noël Barrot, a business school graduate, is Minister for Digital Transition and Telecommunications. He is the leader on this project.

As noted by Mozilla, it comes down to 2 paragraphs, but I’ve included the paragraphs before and after below. This law overlaps with European regulation too:

Article 6

  1. Article 12 of the aforementioned law no. 2004-575 of June 21, 2004 reads as follows:
  2. "Art. 12 - I. - When one of its specially designated and empowered agents observes that an online public communication service is clearly carrying out operations constituting the offences referred to in articles 226-4-1, 226-18 and 323-1 of the French Penal Code and article L. 163-4 of the Monetary and Financial Code, the administrative authority shall give formal notice to the person whose activity is to publish the online public communication service in question, provided that it has made available the information referred to in article 1-1 of the present law, to cease the operations constituting the offence observed. It also informs the offender of the precautionary measure referred to in the second paragraph of paragraph I of this article, and invites the offender to submit his or her observations within five days.
  3. "At the same time, the administrative authority notifies the electronic address of the service concerned to Internet browser providers within the meaning of Article 2, paragraph 11 of Regulation (EU) 2022/1925 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 14 September 2022 on fair and competitive contracts in the digital sector and amending Directives (EU) 2019/1937 and (EU) 2020/1828, for the purposes of implementing precautionary measures.
  4. "As a precautionary measure, the recipient of a notification shall immediately take all necessary steps to display a message warning the user of the risk of prejudice incurred in the event of access to this address. This message is clear, legible, unique and comprehensible, and enables users to access the official website of the public interest grouping for the national system to assist victims of cyber-malicious acts.

source

jarfil ,

display a message warning the user

Do I understand correctly, that browsers would NOT BLOCK the access, but just have to display a warning?

If that’s the case, then Mozilla’s defense of using Google’s services to decide when to display such warning, instead of allowing France to create non-Google mechanisms to achieve the same, seems like a mistake.

bbbhltz ,
@bbbhltz@beehaw.org avatar

I read through the entire thing, in French, and it references several other laws and European regulations. The browser part is only in those paragraphs of the bill, but those paragraphs are referenced throughout the bill so there might be more to it. The whole bill is 91 pages long.

It was adopted on 5 July, by the way…

The blog post from Mozilla does say, “France’s browser-based website blocking proposal will set a disastrous precedent for the open internet,” so the precedent here is what they’re worried about.

Im28xwa , to technology in France’s browser-based website blocking proposal sets a disastrous precedent for the open internet

Hell no, what a fucking stupid idea

Nonameuser678 , to technology in France’s browser-based website blocking proposal sets a disastrous precedent for the open internet
@Nonameuser678@aussie.zone avatar

This Macron guy is really trying to make people hate him isn’t he. At this point it feels like he actually wants the French to burn shit.

Mlkall ,

Macron is a malodorous shit stain fascist mother fucker. I'm ashamed of my fellow citizens who voted twice for this human error.

noodle ,
@noodle@feddit.uk avatar

Disclaimer, I’m not French. But it seemed like the alternative was Le Pen and from what I’ve read she would certainly be more of a shitstain fascist, just with a populist tinge.

Plume ,

Yup. We voted for him in the second turn of the elections because, it was either that or facism… and we got facism-lite (less and less lite, with each passing day) laying the ground work and colluding with Le Pen and her cronies. Fucking wonderful.

magnor ,
@magnor@lemmy.magnor.ovh avatar

We basically had the choice between eating shit or eating a cheese pie with shit inside. Next time I’m afraid people are simply going to give up or eat the actual shit because “at least it’s honest”.

Fuck Macron and fuck fascists.

pokexpert30 ,
@pokexpert30@lemmy.pussthecat.org avatar

I’ve said it already, and I’m saying it again :

France politics have 3 paths :

  • Kinda extreme left ; anti vaxxers, anti nuclear, pro islam, pro immigration, anti NATO, anti Europe, pro-russia and pro-dictatorships overall (Mélenchon)
  • Extreme right : anti ecology, deeply pro-rich (anti union), overall neo-fascists as you would except, very much anti Europe, anti NATO, pro-putin and pro-russia. (le Pen)
  • Macron, who is pro-rich, but not pro-putin and kinda Nato-friendly and Europe friendly.

We need to build back guillotines.

barsoap ,

Didn’t he say that NATO is braindead.

Though in that instance it’s not really about politics, he’s simply pushing long-standing French security doctrine which insists on strategic autonomy but also wants the whole of Europe to be strategically autonomous so a) the French don’t have to foot the bill alone and b) the US has less opportunity to klutz their dick around.

pokexpert30 ,
@pokexpert30@lemmy.pussthecat.org avatar

He said that in 2019, and it was a warning, not a statement, and I believe he was right.

But now that Russia did a moderate amount of tomfoolery, it’s back at full power.

Nonameuser678 ,
@Nonameuser678@aussie.zone avatar

I’m sorry but what the actual fuck is your political system? I’m been sitting here thinking France is one of the healthiest democracies because you actually protest. But now I see why all the protesting.

pokexpert30 ,
@pokexpert30@lemmy.pussthecat.org avatar

We don’t have a dual parties system (we used to but Macron destroyed it somehow), now it’s more like 3 parties and satellite. It’s not that much the democracy system that’s broken, rather politicians.

MonsieurPi ,

The problem is that they described the system in a wrong way. Mélenchon is not extreme left. But yes, we have big issues with the way politics are conducted under Macron, it’s the first time that the population is despised that much by the executive power.

MonsieurPi , (edited )

C’est tellement n’importe quoi comme généralisation que c’en serait presque drôle si ce n’était pas grave. Dire que ia France Insoumise c’est l’extrême gauche antivax, sérieux, un peu de culture politique ça ferait pas de mal, non ? Vous êtes à deux doigts d’écrire que ce sont des islamo-gauchistes. Et c’est quoi cette description toute gentille du macronisme ? Le macronisme est une nouvelle émanation de l’extrême centre comme on peut le voir depuis des années. Anti-syndicat, anti-peuple, neo-libéral etc.

Au moins vous avez bien décrit l’extrême droite, félicitations, 1 sur 3 c’est pas mal.

Edit: English version

It’s such an absurd generalization that it would be almost funny if it wasn’t serious. To say that France Insoumise is the extreme left antivax, seriously, a little political culture would not hurt, right? You’re about to write that they are Islamo-leftists. And what is this nice description of Macronism? Macronism is the new emanation of the extreme center as we can see for years. Anti-syndicate, anti-people, neo-liberal etc.

At least you described the far right well, congratulations, 1 out of 3 is not bad.

magnor ,
@magnor@lemmy.magnor.ovh avatar

This is correct. This other guy is spewing nonsense.

pokexpert30 ,
@pokexpert30@lemmy.pussthecat.org avatar

Fi est très proche de eelv , et Jadot est un antivax, ça sert a rien de le cacher. Je crois que Mélenchon a déjà critiqué les vaccins par le passé, mais sur le coup je peux me tromper.

Par contre, globalement lfi est plutot pro-islam ( lefigaro.fr/…/loi-separatisme-plutot-que-l-islami… , anecdotique + lefigaro, mais bon)

Et oui pour Macron c’est 100% de la version simplifiée et gentille, j’ai pas mis qu’il transformait la France en état policier, que c’était un menteur et un destructeur de démocratie, c’est vrai.

Et merci pour le compliment pour notre extrême droite :p

Ça se voit que je déteste tout le monde sans exception ?

(Sorry for English viewers, I’m not translating that)

MonsieurPi ,

J’ai pour politique de ne pas échanger plus de 2 messages aller-retour sur Internet donc ceci sera ma dernière réponse.

Jadot est ouvertement anti-NUPES et anti-LFI, utiliser une hypothétique proximité entre LFI et EELV pour les associer à Jadot afin de justifier l’argument “LFI est antivax” c’est d’un ridicule sans nom. Ah, si, ça a un nom, ça s’appelle un syllogisme.

Ensuite, ça veut dire quoi “pro-islam” ? Pro “terrorisme islamiste” ou “pro laissons les musulmans tranquille, la France est un pays laïc dans le sens où le pays n’a pas de religion officielle et toute religion est acceptée tant qu’elle ne contrevient pas aux principes républicains et autres conditions” ? Si c’est le premier cas, c’est grave de dire ça, si c’est le deuxième cas, où est le problème ? Je vis dans une ville avec une grande communauté musulmane, je souhaite un bon Aïd à mes connaissances, ils savent que je suis athée et s’en branlent complètement et on vit très bien tous ensemble.

Détester tout le monde sans exception c’est dans le même ordre d’idée que “tous pourris”. Sauf que parmi les “tous pourris” on a eu ceux qui ont mis en place la sécu, les congés payés, la retraite solidaire, l’assurance chômage, l’abolition de la peine de mort, le mariage pour tous et toutes et bien d’autres évolutions sociétales (et ceci inclus en effet beaucoup de personnalités de gauche mais aussi des personnalités de la droite gaulliste). Et de l’autre on a ceux qui veulent le retour à l’état policier et la destruction du droit du travail et autres acquis sociaux. Mais sans aucune nuance et en disant “tous pourris” on se permet de cacher son inculture politique et son absence totale d’humilité face à celles et ceux qui ont eu et ont encore à coeur de faire de leur pays un endroit agréable pour toutes les personnes qui le composent.

En soit, ce n’est pas grave de ne rien savoir sur la politique comme vos différents commentaires le montrent, ce qui est grave c’est de penser que vous y comprenez quelque chose au point d’aller expliquer comment ça fonctionne à d’autres personnes qui n’y connaissent rien et auront beaucoup de mal à savoir que vous racontez n’importe quoi.

Petit conseil, arrêtez d’écrire pendant un certain temps et allez plutôt lire des choses sur “je sais que je ne sais pas”, “the more I know, the less I know”, Dunning-Kruger et autres principes assez important sur notre (in)capacité à évaluer notre savoir et sa pertinence.

magnor ,
@magnor@lemmy.magnor.ovh avatar

Since when is our leftwing anti vax ? What have you been smoking ? And what the hell does pro Islam even mean ?? I’m baffled. This is inaccurate as all hell.

pokexpert30 ,
@pokexpert30@lemmy.pussthecat.org avatar

glances at Yannick Jaddot

magnor ,
@magnor@lemmy.magnor.ovh avatar

You specifically called Mélenchon out. Honestly, I don’t have much love for the guy himself (he is antiquated and becoming a liability) but you can’t call the mouvement antivax. Jadot is another kettle of fish entirely.

magnor ,
@magnor@lemmy.magnor.ovh avatar

You specifically called Mélenchon out. Honestly, I don’t have much love for the guy himself (he is antiquated and becoming a liability) but you can’t call the mouvement antivax. Jadot is another kettle of fish entirely.

lntl , to technology in France’s browser-based website blocking proposal sets a disastrous precedent for the open internet
@lntl@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Ill compile Firefox if I need to

CaptainAniki ,

I won’t. I’ll have a fork I merge without the tracking and let a CI/CD pipeline compile a release for me! ;)

lntl ,
@lntl@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

I think we’re on the same page

sculd , to technology in France’s browser-based website blocking proposal sets a disastrous precedent for the open internet

The article is not very clear about what exactly the proposal mandate. Create the means for browser to block websites, or forces browser to block certain websites by the geolocation they are operating in?

Because I don’t understand how the later would work.

From the wording it seems like they are only asking browser developers to provide a function to block websites. (maybe byimporting a block list?)

Akasazh ,
@Akasazh@feddit.nl avatar

I think they do not know this themselves. France had already implemented a black list on DNS level. F.i. library genesis links cannot be reached through standard DNS.

I figure they think that that’s not oppressive enough.

gabe , to technology in France’s browser-based website blocking proposal sets a disastrous precedent for the open internet

What in the ever loving hell is up with France’s current government right now? It’s like Macron has said fuck it, lets give the fascists a way to sneak in

gaael , (edited )

It’s not just right now : this president has been here since 2017 and most of the core ministers are the same since then.

They have been cracking down on civil liberties from the start, but they make it more and more obvious since 2022 (because there is no re-election possible after 2 terms). Using anti-terrorist special legislatilns against environmental and himan rights activists, making demonstrations repression ever more violent…

At the same time, to guarantee that pseudo-centrist (actually right wing) keep getting elected, they have worked to make the far right more powerful. This way, in every election, they can end up being the “rational” choice.

magnor ,
@magnor@lemmy.magnor.ovh avatar

Exactly. Besides, I really do believe they are stupid enough to believe their bullshit will allow them to keep winning at the polls. I’m not so sure anymore… The fascists are ready and our state is turning a blind eye.

schnurrito ,

Current government right now? I don’t remember any time when French politicians were friendly to the free and open Internet. Used to be that copyright was the main concern, nowadays not anymore.

jeanma ,

They have a president and government as US fanboys, importing the worse from this f’ed up country.

Deceptichum , to technology in France’s browser-based website blocking proposal sets a disastrous precedent for the open internet
@Deceptichum@kbin.social avatar

I vote sites block France.

On that note, how would one go about blocking all visitors from a geographic region?

Excrubulent ,
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

GeoIP lookup. Pornhub did it recently to protest certain states’ laws that would require them to check IDs of visitors.

runefehay ,

It isn't very accurate. I live in Idaho, and my phone's geoip shows up all over the United States. Currently it says Utah, last time I checked.

Excrubulent ,
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

Well, short of trusting the users themselves to volunteer their location, it’s the best we’ve got.

reclipse ,
@reclipse@lemdro.id avatar

Take my vote too.

elfahor ,

Think of us poor French citizens stuck with this shitty government

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