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wax ,

Ah, the classic “make a minority responsible for our problems” technique.

Splitting up completely functional families. Barbarians. Could this be appealed in the EU courts? Is political asylum in another country possible?

freagle ,

What a shithole. Italy is an oligopolistic kleptocracy run by a dictator with a psychological complex. Someone should regime change them, probably by sanctioning the country and starving the people who deserve it because they haven’t overthrown their fascist leaders yet (probably because they are fascists themselves).

Did I touch all the Russophobic and Sinophobic talking points?

polskilumalo ,
@polskilumalo@lemmygrad.ml avatar

You got me in the first half not gonna lie.

PolandIsAStateOfMind ,
@PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml avatar

Did I touch all the Russophobic and Sinophobic talking points?

You missed “asiatic hordes” and dogwhistles for it.

PuppyOSAndCoffee ,
@PuppyOSAndCoffee@lemmy.ml avatar

This probably makes a cadre of old ladies happy but how does it help the children?

Seems unusually crude.

Stamets ,
@Stamets@startrek.website avatar

I mean… They’re specifically taking away rights from gay people. Stealing their families. Demonizing us.

It has NOTHING to do with the children and it never has been. Children are used as an excuse to attack us. To demonize us. To make us out to be monsters that need to be exterminated.

Ive seen this my entire life and its never going to stop. People just want us dead.

Dubious_Fart ,

Across the world, the right wing authoritarian cry of “For the children!” has never, once, been anything but a Trojan horse to pursue injurious laws against people the authoritarians decry as “undesirable”

kier ,

want an answer?

religion

dottedgreenline , (edited )
@dottedgreenline@lemmy.ml avatar

All countries are a few steps away from this type of shit. Nation states may have been a good departure from monarchies but have very much proven to be trash; the “cultures” and “ethnicities”, etc. they proclaim to protect seem very much to be bullshit money-making schemes at best. A serious shift away from vertical economic and social hierarchies is the only solution. But deprogramming the world is not going to be easy.

tillimarleen ,

Indeed! Where and when do we meet?

YaaAsantewaa ,

It’s all thanks to Ukrainian Nazi influence causing this radical shift in Europe but no one wants to say it out loud

surge_1 ,

You couldn’t be more wrong, and that’s why no one is saying it.

YaaAsantewaa ,

forward.com/…/azov-brigade-ukraine-nazi-extremism…

Yeah, I’m sure none of those people are Nazis amirite?

exi ,

They sure have Nazis in Ukraine as has every country.

But saying that the fascists in Italy have anything to do with Ukraine needs very good evidence to support such a wild claim.

Snowpix ,
@Snowpix@lemmy.ca avatar

Go back to Hexbear. Nobody likes Putin cockgobblers.

YaaAsantewaa ,

No, I’m a person of color and I’m not going to be threatened by nazis or bullied by white nationalists

mim , (edited )

You’re also an American tankie who seems to have a knewjerk reaction of blaming everything on a group of Ukrainian white nationalists.

Italians are perfectly capable of having their own home-grown right wing clowns. They invented fascism after all.

Snowpix ,
@Snowpix@lemmy.ca avatar

Tankies are so predictable. Morons.

informapirata ,
@informapirata@feddit.it avatar

Italians are perfectly capable of having their own home-grown right wing clowns. They invented fascism after all

I confirm! And we Italians maintain this great all-Italian creativity even today, given that Trumpism is inspired by Italian Berlusconi… 😭

mim ,

Americans keep culturally appropriating Italy, first pizza and now fascism. smh

informapirata ,
@informapirata@feddit.it avatar

Let’s hope the United States doesn’t even think of culturally appropriating the figure of the Pope: the architect who designed Capital Hill came dangerously close, but a small Vatican City in Washington would be a death blow for the entire American continent! 😁 😄 🤣

https://feddit.it/pictrs/image/8f514a12-e9e4-495e-a8fd-dc571508c5dc.webp

Snowpix ,
@Snowpix@lemmy.ca avatar

I can’t hear you over the sounds of a pathetic child whining about supposed persecution. What did you say?

Honytawk ,

The fuck has Ukraine got to do with anything?

Those are 2 different countries with the only similarities being on the European continent and having fascists groups.

I swear, some Americans really don’t understand how borders work…

Cylusthevirus , (edited )
@Cylusthevirus@kbin.social avatar

The fuck is going on over there Italy? I know the USA's a dumpster fire but are you guys like ... trying to be the European equivalent of Mississippi?

UndefinedIsNotAFunction ,

Right!? I don’t get it. Why aren’t we so far beyond this by now? This was shit that should have been solved ages ago yet here we are having the same goddamn discussions decade after decade. Let’s just collectively grow the fuck up already. I just don’t get it. I just don’t. Fuck these people.

ikiru ,

They elected a fascist.

SSUPII ,

We have a massively growing right wing due to people finding little answers from the center-right. Left wing is a minority, and the only time a major center-left party went to power it was a split power with a right wing party that months later voluntarily sabotaged its own position of power just so the center-left party was not in power anymore. We went into technical government, during COVID.

What the people want to hear is increased wages, lower gas prices and less taxes. Yet, they vote “the queen of the traditional family” (almost actual quote) and now we have a prime minister that has cut welfare for the unemployed and reverting rights. But hey, they want to implement minimum wage I guess.

Still, you can’t get away with cutting welfare like that. We have places like Naples almost rioting.

Connationals, I beg you, go vote. Don’t let this happen so often…

loutr ,
@loutr@sh.itjust.works avatar

There’s no minimum wage in Italy?

Robaque ,

There’s no statutory min wage

SSUPII , (edited )

Nope. It was an optional complex system where organizations would sign deals to pay workers at least specific amounts if those workers are in particular fields.

Here is the thing. A major issue in Italy is “dark labor” (“lavoro a nero”), that essentially means working without signing a contract (so you are without any worker protection), making it not known to the state you are working and so evading taxes. In the current state adding minimum wage now adds a real chance to only fuel this terrible practice.

Blake ,

Voting is NOT the way out of the situation that we’re in. You should still vote but it’s critical to understand that the absolute best that voting can achieve is the lesser evil.

If we want a solution that is actually good, we need to a fundamental change in the structure of society that can only happen outside of traditional electoral politics.

The structure fundamentally responsible for our problems - unequal distribution of resources and labour and the concentration of wealth into the hands of a very, very small minority (100 individuals have more wealth than an entire continent of ~1,460,000,000 people) - is the same one which completely dominates the outcome of elections.

Money decides who can run a campaign, buy support, pay for smear campaigns, control the media narrative, dominate the conversation by astroturfing social media, etc. etc. The system is so fundamentally controlled by money that there is absolutely no way to beat it using the rules of that very same system.

We need to build alternative systems that work outside of capitalism, for example, mutual aid (helping/supporting someone in return for their help/support in future), establishing co-operatives for food, housing, etc. to meet our needs, and establishing networks of support built on trust, mutual respect, and solidarity. Then we can withdraw our labour from capitalism entirely, causing it to collapse, and form the structure of a new society in the shell of the old.

Only by building an alternative to the system, can we truly make things better.

Only by knowing that voting can’t build that alternative, we realise that means we need to take action beyond voting.

explodicle ,

Very eloquently said!

polskilumalo ,
@polskilumalo@lemmygrad.ml avatar

I have an idea, fostering a labour movement and radicalizing the proletariat through the use of a vanguard party so that conditions for a, let’s say, revolutionary change can have place.

How about that?

Also, despite how great co-operatives and mutual aid are they still work within a capitalist society and economy. They cannot be used as a band aid end all be all solution but a furthering force for the overthrow of capital and establishment of socialism.

Also, please do not repeat the mistakes of the Paris Commune. We cannot just detach from capitalism so peacfuly. The bourgeoisie will send death squads and paramilitary groups to anythint they consider remotely dangerous to their power.

So be ready to establish a people’s militia.

Hamster42 ,

massively growing right wing

They have the same numbers than last election, they won thanks to the low turnout. They are still the minority in Italy.

The majority just don’t care, that’s even worse

fushuan ,

I’ve said this for my country and I’ll say it again, if you don’t vote, you are effectively voting the winning party. It’s your right, but don’t you fucking dare complain later .

(not you you, them).

RedWizard ,
@RedWizard@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Didn’t you know? It’s the 20s all over again. Musolini came into power in 1922. Welcome to the 100 year backslide.

singularity ,

Then let’s better skip the 30s and 40s…

veganpizza69 ,
@veganpizza69@lemmy.world avatar

They elected a fascist party and leader.

TigrisMorte ,

But everyone swore that we were over reacting when we called her Fascist.
??????

Ashyr , (edited )

How could anyone be overreacting? Isn’t her only claim to fame her relationship to a fascist?

It would be one thing if it’s incidental, but that’s always seemed one of her primary selling points.

SSUPII ,

The self proclamed “queen of the traditional family”, almost actual quote

FatTony ,
@FatTony@discuss.online avatar

Her grandfather would be … laying perfectly still in his grave.

explodicle ,

The people who tell you that you’re overreacting are usually just scared to admit what’s happening to themselves.

cloaker ,

Awful shit. Will this affect all adoptees or just those chosen by the fascist administration?

SSUPII , (edited )

Your understanding is generally inaccurate. (or at least seemed to)

A less spoken yet big topic in Italy is the “uterus for rent” (“utero in affitto”). While most media talks about the woman role, it actually goes both ways.

The explanation under the following spoiler is potentially NSFW, yet I will try to write it in the least sensitive way possible**This is an illegal practice in Italy.**It consists in a person paying another person from the opposite sex so a child can be born between the two, but raised by only the payer. Used in the case where the actual couple cannot make a child on their own (so, in the case of same-sex unions or general infertility). The person who got payed would then disappear.

.

The block of the birth certificates is going against this practice.

Mr_Blott ,

Yes that’s a very nice explanation but it doesn’t leave anything for people with no understanding of Italian culture anything to get unreasonably outraged about on the internet 😂

SSUPII ,

I wrote it in the most impartial way possible. I want discussion not echo chambers of what I think of it.

Mr_Blott ,

Yep I understood it completely because I live just across the border.

There are too many people who want to be angry without understanding the reason for it

AlgeriaWorblebot ,

I see the block of the birth certificates as being ostensibly in support of the prohibition of this practice, but I can also very well see the underlying intent as being anti- same-sex-parenting.

Further, I don’t understand why the practice should be prohibited in the first place.

So I disagree with it, but on the other hand I also disagree with it. Am just a filthy foreigner though so other than this comment I’ll keep it to myself.

SSUPII ,

I also disagree with the prohibition of this practice. I just cannot see how it’s bad especially when done in appropriate ways, instead of illegally with a massive list of risks.

cloaker ,

The simple solution would be to regulate surrogacy which is normal. This also affects LGBTQ still.

SSUPII ,

I looked online, and looks like surrogacy is the actual term of this. Yes, surrogacy is illegal in Italy and of course it affects LGBTQ+ couples too.

Said in another comment that I don’t understand the problem when it’s regulated and done in a safe environment, instead of illegally with a massive list of risks both medically and legally.

cloaker ,

My first question is how does this affect adopted children, and then second; why does the government not regulate surrogacy instead of just banning it.

SSUPII , (edited )

Depends what do you mean with adopted. A children adopted due to abandonment or loss of parents will still have the original parents in the certificate.

If you mean adopted at birth after the practice or similars, their birth certificate is invalid as you have read. In this case a child not having a valid birth certificate means having an invalid Italian citizenship meaning a legal risk for the parents and unability for legal access for institutions and documents, like creating a passport. This is a massive problem as a partner in surrogacy might be unreachable as done illegally, and they would need to sign the new birth certificate and state that child as their own. It also means only the registered member of the actual couple will show as a parent, and there are a lot of context where both registered parents are needed for signing.

Recap:

  • Invalid documents, until the donator shows up
  • The donator must become present in the child’s life due to multiple documents needing signing from both registered parents
  • Only one member of the actual couple will be able to present themself as parent. It would make it illegal for the non-registered person to even pick up their child from school unless a extra permit is written.

Surrogacy has been banned in Italy in 2003 with a claim it promoted child-trafficking and prostitution. Currently, the law is defended by many right-wing parties (extremely powerful in Italy) claiming living without a biological mother or father is a violation of human rights for the child. At the moment, surrogacy is punished via a nasty fine (up to €1m) or jail time up to 2 years. The current government wants to expand this punishment also to Italian couple that had this practice outside of Italian soil. On a side note, same-sex marriage is also banned in Italy.

elmicha ,

Note that surrogacy is illegal in many countries of Europe (sorry for the German page, I couldn’t find the image in English Wikipedia).

autotldr Bot ,

This is the best summary I could come up with:

But in recent months – after Italy’s rightwing government began cracking down on the listing of same-sex parents on birth certificates – the life they have forged together has been thrust into uncertainty.

Following the birth of their children, she and Pardi spent years battling for legal recognition, butting up constantly against the absence of a national law setting out parental rights for same-sex couples.

What was taking place in Milan was a “direct breach of children’s rights” set out by the UN, MEPs noted in an amendment to a 2022 report, and “part of a broader attack against the LGBTQI+ community in Italy”.

The crackdown on same-sex parents has cast a spotlight on Italy’s ranking among the worst countries in western Europe when it comes to LGBTQ+ rights and added to fears that this meagre standing could be eroded under Meloni’s government.

“This ban is one of the most concrete manifestations of the fury that the rightwing majority is unleashing against LGBTI people,” Gabriele Piazzoni from Arcigay, Italy’s largest LGBTQ+ rights group, told media earlier this year.

Italy legalised same-sex civil unions in 2016 but stopped short of allowing gay couples the right to adopt amid opposition from rightwing parties and the Catholic church.

The original article contains 907 words, the summary contains 205 words. Saved 77%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!

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