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deepbIue ,

As much as I like shitting on the US, I think all of the comments here are forgetting that this wouldn’t be a 1v3. It would be a world war. There would be no winners.

Zipitydew ,

And that Palantir is an MIC contractor. They would have this outlook because it would keep them busy. The reality of such a scenario is far more unrealistic.

GarbageShoot ,

There would be an immense toll, but it would mean the destruction of the US, Israel, NATO, and neoliberalism generally, which I think means there is also room for optimism. If I may gesture towards Mark Twain, there are two Reigns of Terror here, and though we have reason to fear the latter one, it will not last as long or kill as many as the former one that it puts an end to. If there is not a nuclear holocaust, anyway

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

If there is not a nuclear holocaust, anyway

That’s a pretty fucking big “if”

InternetUser2012 ,

It’s pretty obvious it’s not a big “if”.

GarbageShoot ,

Granted

FakeNewsForDogs ,
@FakeNewsForDogs@hexbear.net avatar

Yes, it would be cataclysmic. In the longer term though, I would argue that just about everyone on the planet would be a winner if the US empire were finally put down. You can’t really overstate how much of an impediment the US is to global human welfare and development.

freagle ,

Bloodthirsty, insane, and suicidal

yogthos OP ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

Americans love to role play at having a democracy, but when push comes to shove the public is never consulted about such monumental decisions like ending human civilization.

originalfrozenbanana ,

Wait sorry, Palantir saying this somehow reflects upon the US? Like I’m not saying that the US is good or bad but Palantir is definitely fucking bad

BurgerPunk ,
@BurgerPunk@hexbear.net avatar

I-was-saying amerikkka

ShimmeringKoi ,
@ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net avatar

Honestly yeah, a fascist billionaire’s policy thinktank trying to help gin up a war is reflective of US policy, especially US government policy since they help write it.

originalfrozenbanana ,

it’s certainly on brand but this isn’t the official policy of any country, it’s a billionaire who owns a defense company trying to gin up business. Again, on brand but acting like this is tantamount to or evidence of the US actually doing these things is kind of silly. It’s Palantir, they aren’t a reputable source of anything other than RFPs.

ShimmeringKoi , (edited )
@ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net avatar

Government tied “independent” think tanks and NGOs are part of the cycle of consent manufacturing that turns the avarice of billionaire ghouls into government policy. The US government is a bunch of banks and weapons manufacturers stacked on top of each other in a trench coat. A government is not a faction: its a tool, a weapon, it has no intention other than the intention of whoever carries it. This one is in the hands of the ultra wealthy and always has been. The desires of rich fucks to make more money is not separable from the actions of the US government: it always informs it. They start wars and genocides for profit. There is no other heuristic guiding the actions of the US empire because there is no faction other than the bourgeoisie that is allowed to control it.

You might as well say “Sure, the shooter is pulling the trigger, but it would be silly to think that reflects on the intentions of the gun.”

wildncrazyguy138 ,

We elect people to make decisions, that’s the whole concept behind representative government. We vote people in at the federal level who are supposed to protect us - it is one of their key responsibilities according to the constitution.

I understand that the concept of representative governance may be lost on people who have little say on those who govern them.

And just to be clear, no, ours is not a perfect system either. I’d prefer ranked choice to FPP voting, but even that has flaws.

DivineChaos100 ,
@DivineChaos100@hexbear.net avatar

“I hope” - he added.

EndMilkInCrisps ,

Well that sounds totally winnable.

phdepressed ,

By ourselves not easily. But such a war is World War III…everyone is getting involved.

Russia has already shown their military is subpar. Ukraine aid has still been quite limited in terms of how much of the more advanced stuff we’ve been willing to give them and ability to strike Russian targets. They’ve already got over 500,000 casualties not to mention equipment losses. They’re starting with a disadvantage regardless of how Ukraine turns out. Biggest issues from Russia-owned GOPers continuing to detract and otherwise make full support difficult as well as disinformation campaigns.

The middle east is difficult. Question of getting bogged down (as per usual) as well as nuclear concerns. With NATO support on one side and opposing Russia-China support the other. Israel would likely be the biggest ally here(it is a major reason they get military support from us) and already have advanced weaponry and of course genocidal rage. Something something about enemies and enemies.

China would be the most difficult issue if already engaged with Russia and Iran. Numbers and military quality are certainly a concern. All the outsourced manufacturing would also be a major headache, honestly not certain which side would be hurt more by that economically. That said many nearby countries would probably be willing to aid in small and large ways because of dislike of China. Furthermore their last major military engagement was in Vietnam 1979 with skirmishes until 1991. So 30-40y on most Chinese commanders and infantry don’t have actual battle experience. So question of quality and whether with allies we could stand up to their manpower and manufacturing capacity.

Not certain how much Africa would come into play as that’d be a real mess.

All in all, winnable or not would only be determined by actual battle. Major losses of life for all involved.

buh ,
@buh@hexbear.net avatar

typical am*rican extravagance 😒

frauddogg ,
@frauddogg@lemmygrad.ml avatar

https://lemmygrad.ml/pictrs/image/1e191fe0-bfb2-47cf-b48c-310029e02f88.png

I’m kinda feeling the “c’mon, go see the titanic” meme, but regarding a total war that Amerika has literally no hope of winning. Just one of those countries routinely low-tech kicks the shit out of our forces without the war games having to get railroaded by the peckerwoods just to “prove” an ‘Allied’ victory; what the fuck do they think tackling Russia and China too will accomplish?

ShimmeringKoi ,
@ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net avatar

“Germany chose as it’s enemy In this war…the world.”

UlyssesT ,

Palantir

Top tier blue curtain bazinga torment nexus enjoyers here. no-mouth-must-scream porky-point

mctoasterson ,

I realize this is Lemmy so it is a race to make the most edgelord anti-US comment. I would be remiss if I didn’t remind people of the shocking naivety of this mentality.

It seems many on this board believe that the US would get destroyed, western values would be undermined and some magic communist utopia would just naturally arise the world over in the aftermath. Wrong.

The conflict being described here would be a world war in which multiple large scale nuclear strikes would be deployed. Whatever country you are shitposting from wouldn’t be immune from first order effects, let alone follow-on effects of such a disasterous exchange. Millions would die. You would be better off perishing in the initial salvos than struggling to survive in whatever Mad Max scenario your country devolves into in the resulting hellscape of nuclear fallout, zero international deterrence, likely cessation of emergency services on a local level, and all non local supply chains and communication channels being broken.

So, be careful what you wish for, and don’t hasten the day.

BurgerPunk ,
@BurgerPunk@hexbear.net avatar

Good news because they’ll lose

Lucidlethargy ,

You aren’t very bright, are you?

As an American, I am constantly opposing war mongering in my country. They’re are many times when I’ve wanted to simply leave (most notably when Trump first took office). But we can’t leave… The reasonable people need to stay, because the military the US has right now is fucking insane.

Here’s a graph to spell things out for you: https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/6b13981d-526a-41a6-beca-5e93eb92b3aa.jpeg

If you want positive change, stop dreaming about the destruction of countries, and start working to change the hearts and minds of those residing in influential countries.

Hexamerous ,

strangelove

r00ty Admin ,
r00ty avatar

we’re in an age when nuclear deterrent is actually less effective because the West is very unlikely to use anything like a nuclear bomb, whereas our adversaries might,” he added. “Where you have technological parity but moral disparity, the actual disparity is much greater than people think.”

See. I don't think the deterrent was ever meant to be a response to tactical nuclear weapons. They were meant to be a way to make sure that if World ending strategic nuclear weapons were fired against cities, that the response would be absolute.

I wholesale believe that western countries with strategic nuclear weapons would return fire against an attack in our direction. Just as it looked in wargames.

No we're not going to destroy the world if Russia or any other adversary uses tactical nuclear weapons. We have much more proportionate responses.

Or, maybe I'm just misreading it?

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