It does have impact. Public sentiment is not something that changes in one day. Lots of smaller actions change it over time. Demonstrations and even self immolations though I would not condone self harm as a demonstration method.
After the self-immolation, the US put more pressure on Diệm to re-open negotiations on the faltering agreement. Diệm had scheduled an emergency cabinet meeting at 11:30 a.m. on 11 June to discuss the Buddhist crisis which he believed to be winding down. Following Quảng Đức’s death, Diệm canceled the meeting and met individually with his ministers. Acting US Ambassador to South Vietnam William Trueheart warned Nguyễn Đình Thuận, Diệm’s Secretary of State, of the desperate need for an agreement, saying that the situation was “dangerously near breaking point” and expected Diệm would meet the Buddhists’ five-point manifesto. United States Secretary of State Dean Rusk warned the Saigon embassy that the White House would publicly announce that it would no longer “associate itself” with the regime if this did not occur.[29] The Joint Communiqué and concessions to the Buddhists were signed on 16 June.[30]
So what’s the key difference? IMO “dangerously near breaking point”. We aren’t in danger of a breaking point. What are you going to do, vote for a even more conservative person? The 1% has crafted themselves a win win situation with First Past The Post voting. The liberal party in Canada recently promised electoral reform to their voters, yet the voting system remains.
Because that’s democracy, having a insanely limited amount of options to vote for. Feeling represented yet? No? Fuck you, vote for my guy. That’s democracy, fuck you and what you believe, just vote for my guy.
Have you ever talked to a democrat about voting third party before? Boy they sure seem to understand the faults of First Past The Post voting, because nearly every single one you talk to about this will mention how a vote not for their guy is a vote for the other guy. How can you point out these glaring mathematical faults of our voting system and then, some way some how, wash your hands of the issue Post election?
Now hang on just one second my blue conservative “ally”, you can’t just do nothing about the voting system after bringing up all those flaws when we discussed voting for a third party. You can’t lecture people on how to vote in “the most important election ever” and then not work tirelessly to enact state level reforms to fix the problems YOU YOURSELF enthusiasticly bring up to vote shame people into supporting your guy.
Here are some videos on the topic if you’d like to know more:
You realize the voter you speak to has no influence on policies right? They are right that in current america you cannot vote for 3rd parties without helping fascists get in power. However a vote for blue doesnt mean something about the system gets changed either. At least it will not make things much worse and maybe improve some other stuff. Voting for a third party will not help. The only thing that would change the political system in america is a revolution to tear the current system down. That will be bloody in america though.
The people detracting this as ‘nothing’ are clearly so comfy in there own situations they cant imagine any action, nevermind a strong one like this having an impact.
Material reality. People have done this before for a myriad of causes. Does it stop empire? No. Lenin never said ‘go kill yourself it totally will change everything’.
The people detracting this as ‘nothing’ are clearly so comfy in there own situations they cant imagine any action, nevermind a strong one like this having an impact.
I run a homeless shelter. Thats at least one thing you could do that is far better than killing yourself for a cause. In fact, anything is better.
Material reality. People have done this before for a myriad of causes. Does it stop empire? No. Lenin never said ‘go kill yourself it totally will change everything’.
Marxism isnt a orthodoxy that needs to be followed like a religion, im not going to judge the protest actions of others if it serves to protest a ongoing genocide being comitted by that persons government.
I run a homeless shelter. Thats at least one thing you could do that is far better than killing yourself for a cause. In fact, anything is better.
Firstly, cool. That doesnt change anything about how much you’re smugging over a dead person rather than allowing it to inspire.
Marxism isnt a orthodoxy that needs to be followed like a religion, im not going to judge the protest actions of others if it serves to protest a ongoing genocide being comitted by that persons government.
You absolutely should be against chain suicides, like any good person is.
Firstly, cool. That doesnt change anything about how much you’re smugging over a dead person rather than allowing it to inspire.
Because it shouldn’t be copied, by anyone. There were many dozens of people that did this during Vietnam, of similar ages. Did that cause America to stop? No. None of the protesting did. Military defeat at the hands of Vietnamese communists did.
‘Inspiration’ and nonsense does not make a change in the world. All it does is add another sad headline, of which there are plenty to be had.
You absolutely should be against chain suicides, like any good person is.
‘Chain suicides’ you’re inserting a bunch of nonsense no one has argued for. Lenin absolutely sent people to commit acts of violence on his behalf, and there have been many examples of suicide protest during occupied nazi europe having an impact.
You judge these things as not being impactfull the literal day after it happens, this is ridiculous. Its had enough of an impact we’re sitting here talking about it, this can be said to be more than most are doing.
Because it shouldn’t be copied, by anyone. There were many dozens of people that did this during Vietnam, of similar ages. Did that cause America to stop? No. None of the protesting did. Military defeat at the hands of Vietnamese communists did.
It pressured people to come back to the table, of course it did. Your ignorance of the impact of those protests doesnt make them not impactfull.
‘Inspiration’ and nonsense does not make a change in the world. All it does is add another sad headline, of which there are plenty to be had.
It likely sounds like nonsense because you’ve already accepted defeat.
I don’t know how you see it as anything other than sadly acknowledging a thrown away life. Do you think there is a magic number of self-immolations that will change US or Israeli policy? If one wasn’t enough a thousand won’t be.
I dont think there is a magic number, I think the hope behind these actions are to inspire to enact more change and to show all human life has value, I think disregarding this as nothing demonstrates a lack of empathy or working class spirit.
No one is regarding it as nothing. We’re regarding it as a very high cost form of protest which doesn’t seem to be more effective than non-suicidal methods.
Pointless death by a brainwashed youth. Mental health crisis among teens is already at a breaking point and now they’re getting 24/7 emotionally charged war footage and calls to action. You can protest without giving your life and it will be just as effective. Stunts like this sway no one.
They could also stop abstaining from votes pertaining to Palestinian statehood. Start expanding our options for trade, be more aggressive with the “rule of law” with regards to our trade relations with the US.
There’s a lot more that can be done than supplying the weapons and funding used to kill Palestinians. In fact doing nothing would be better
Thích Quảng Đức was a Vietnamese Mahayana Buddhist monk who died by self-immolation (…) protesting against the persecution of Buddhists by the South Vietnamese government of Ngô Đình Diệm, a staunch Roman Catholic. Photographs of his self-immolation circulated around the world, drawing attention to the policies of the Diệm government. John F. Kennedy said of one photograph, "No news picture in history has generated so much emotion around the world as that one.
Calling them brainwashed is disrespectul and ignorant of similar acts that, while they haven’t been enough to change policy, have invigorated social movements that sometimes resulted in the goals they were aiming for. The fact that you use “brainwashed” specifically almost makes me think that you can’t even understand how people could see the murders of tens of thousands of children as something worth taking radical action for.
I use brainwashed because they are a child not fully capable of understanding the gravity of their actions. I call it pointless because he’s in Canada and like the 3rd or 4th guy to do this and the headline won’t even last a week at this point.
Your example is a grown man fully capable of understanding his actions. He was part of the group and he was the first to self immolate in his movement.
Hmm. While I can see that and appreciate the inclusiveness of it, it still feels like the wrong choice to me. Maybe times are changing (obviously) and I need to get used to emojis being used in a more serious tone? But I don’t know… Are we there yet?
No i agree that it was used poorly, also because that emoji is usually used for exiting/positive things. I was just trying to throw out ideas, as to why it might have been used.