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Collatz_problem ,

This should be in worldolds

istanbullu ,

Did he forgot to turn off his microphone?

PowerCrazy ,

Holy shit!

LittleBorat2 ,

Oh really, I thought this was out of the goodness of our hearts. Mind blown.

FriendBesto ,

In fairness, this was always the case. But if you said this, back in 2022, NPCs who could not even find Ukraine on a map weeks prior, would call you a “Putin puppet.” Regardless of valid points or reasoning.

Not the first time the USA has done this, the war on Iraq, twice, or the decades long Operation Condor, just name some examples.

tiredturtle ,

How west we talking about? Europe has an existential self-interest, USA has a capitalist military industry profit self-interest. Even going further to the west, China’s involvement serves self-interest.

huf ,

europe should have absolutely zero self interest in sabotaging its own economy but it’s doing it anyway… the current batch of ghouls leading european countries should have no self interest in boosting the popularity of nazis at their own expense, but they’re doing it anyway…

tiredturtle ,

There’s also a ratio of non-nazi civilians which are on the razing path of the bigger fascist country. Europe doesn’t seem to have alternative avenues than to attempt to block it at all costs.

huf ,

yes, i know that’s the accepted wisdom but i’m not seeing it. and if that were a real fear, then europe has just played itself, because russia is only going to be more likely to attack now that europe has shown itself to be a paper tiger… maybe it would’ve been better to say an absolute no to the idea of ukraine joining nato in 2008 or so. maybe there would still be a ukraine.

tiredturtle ,

Tough to know. Nobody seems to have an idea how Russia’s hostilities could be solved

huf ,

not being hostile to them first would’ve helped…

tiredturtle ,

Which attack was that? Couldn’t pinpoint by searching. Anyway, instead of hypothetical dwelling, time machines are not yet functional so the solutions need to be in the now and the future.

huf ,

the EU leadership doesnt seem to be looking for that kind of solution either, they’re just doubling down on what doesnt seem to be working

tiredturtle ,

Yeah could be. Nobody with the capability to stop doesn’t seem to have the will

TheBroodian ,

Might’ve been usa putting nuclear weapons in Turkey in 1959

qdJzXuisAndVQb2 ,

Most sane hexbear user, has to point to possible offences more than 60 years ago to justify present russian imperialism, oppression and colonialism.

tiredturtle ,

Also it’s quite a stretch to destroy Ukraine and its people because of the USA or Turkey

ShimmeringKoi ,
@ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net avatar

All we had do do was nothing

tiredturtle ,

Or doing nothing lead to the current point. Oh well, it’s up to some future generations to look with hindsight

TheBroodian ,

Literally looking at any fucking moment in the last 100 years would demonstrate that every intervention on the part of the West led exactly to this current moment

ShimmeringKoi , (edited )
@ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net avatar

We toppled their entire government and replaced them with nazis, as is our method. Then we gave the nazis training and weapons for eight full years while they massacred people in eastern Ukraine. We forced a military response from the next door neighbor because that’s what we wanted to do.

tiredturtle ,

Dang, you’ve been busy then

ShimmeringKoi ,
@ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net avatar

🌽

Kusimulkku ,

Self-interest in stopping a Russian invasion…? lol

Dagwood222 ,

Volunteer firefighter protects other people’s houses because they like living in a town with houses.

tobogganablaze ,

Of course. Every single country acts out of self-interest 100% of the time. That’s how countries work.

CableMonster ,

I think the reason for the post is to point out that continuing the funding of the war in Ukraine only serves to kill more ukrainians and the only benefit is Western foreign policy goals.

tobogganablaze ,

That’s basically the exact opposite of what he was saying.

CableMonster ,

I am just going to the natural result of what he is saying and the material facts on the ground.

realitista , (edited )

If Ukrainians don’t fight, they will just be taken by Russia to fight in the next war after they are conquered, just like the Chechens are being used to fight Ukrainians today.

So they will be dying in war either way, the only question is if they will die fighting against Russia or fighting against another innocent country that Russia wants to conquer next.

Moldova, then Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, then Poland. Each population being genocided in the war against the next, just like Chechens are today in Ukraine.

CableMonster ,

That is the propaganda they tell you to support the war. The other option is to negotiate peace like they did in spring of 2022 before the west got involved.

realitista , (edited )

Yes, just like we did with Hitler after he annexed the Sudetenland.

You’d think that after Russia’s invasion and annexation of land in Georgia, Moldova, Chechnya, and now Ukraine, people would wake the fuck up and start to see the pattern here, but I guess not.

Putin’s government has very clearly stated their desire to conquer these territories out loud and in public. But somehow people like you continue to think that we can just allow them to conquer land of neighboring countries and somehow they will magically stop all of a sudden when we negotiate.

Yes, they will stop long enough to rebuild their army for the next conquest.

Why don’t you just take them at their word rather than making some some fantasy about them?

CableMonster ,

Then we have two options:

  1. Russia is having a hard time taking over Ukraine, so obviously it cant take over a bunch of other countries.
  2. Russia is strong and we are using dead Ukrainians to weaken them so they cant take over more countries.

Which one is it?

realitista ,

Russia is easily strong enough to take Ukraine and really all of Europe if the West does nothing. And at that point they will have a bigger GDP and 2-3 times the population of the US, so no reason to stop there. Which is the whole reason the US started NATO in the first place.

The West has done just enough to prevent that from happening. If the West withdrew all their support and just relied on the the goodness of Putin’s heart, the US would be standing alone in direct conflict with Russia (owning Europe) , China (owning most of Asia), Iran, and North Korea within a decade. And they’d have a less than half the production and less than 20% of the population with which to do it.

CableMonster ,

Oh gotcha you live in a neo-con fantasy novel. Sorry man but you are just saying silly things now.

realitista , (edited )

I live in Czechia, so it is not so easy to pigeonhole me politically as you like. I am simply someone who understands the reality of living in this part of the world.

Russia have stated their aims of conquest openly and in public many times. The only one living in a fantasy is the one that doesn’t listen to their own damn words and makes up some alternate reality which conflicts with what they themselves say they want.

CableMonster ,

If you live over there then you should know exactly why russia invaded Georgia, then Crimea, and finally all of russia. The reason has been stated over and over again, and its not because they want to reassemble the soviet union and take over Europe.

I like you country, I went there years ago, the thing you should fear is the escalation of the war not a country with the GDP of a US state doing conventional war.

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@fedia.io avatar

It doesn't only serve to kill Ukrainians and only to benefit Western foreign policy goals. It also serves to keep Ukraine independent from Russia, which is saving Ukrainians and Ukrainian culture from oppression and genocide.

The Ukrainians are happy to be receiving Western support. They're not mindless puppets, they're choosing to continue to resist Russian invasion. They have their reasons for not wanting to be ruled by Putin.

CableMonster ,

The issue is that Ukraine cant win and the West knows it.

They’re not mindless puppets, they’re choosing to continue to resist Russian invasion.

What percent of their army is conscripted?

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@fedia.io avatar

The issue is that Ukraine cant win and the West knows it.

Oh, right, Russia will be in Kiev in three days. Forgot about how unstoppable the Russian military is.

CableMonster ,

Cool, but I dont care about Russia being wrong with their predictions, what I know is that Ukraine losing is a foregone conclusion at this point. Its not like I enjoy people losing parts of their country, but its just reality. And the most important part was how many ukrainians are conscripted to fight.

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@fedia.io avatar

Cool, but I dont care about Russia being wrong with their predictions, what I know is that Ukraine losing is a foregone conclusion at this point.

Their first prediction about how they were totally going to win was wrong. But their current prediction that they're totally going to win is ironclad. Sure.

CableMonster ,

The median age of Ukraines army is 43, they are about to lose.

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@fedia.io avatar

Oh no, it's well known that people over 40 can't operate drone controls.

CableMonster ,

Oh gotcha, you are arguing in bad faith, another one of those.

Clam_Cathedral ,

By almost all metrics Ukraine has been about to lose since day one

CableMonster ,

When the median age climbs by about a decade since the start of the is that a good or bad sign?

PolandIsAStateOfMind ,
@PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml avatar

Russia will be in Kiev in three days.

This was said by american general Mark Milley.

qdJzXuisAndVQb2 ,

And lots of russian popular warharks on tv, come on, no need to be deliberately obtuse just because Russia’s latest colonialism efforts have encountered problems.

PolandIsAStateOfMind ,
@PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml avatar

No need to be projecting because you libs can’t take a truth.

Kusimulkku ,

OP sure does live in a more magical world than the rest of us

FriendBesto ,

Albeit you are right, the USA spent 2 years propagandising seemingly 24/7 to everyone that they weren’t. And if you thought that they were, despite you being correct, Normies would call you a “Putin Puppet,” or something related for your trouble.

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