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Blinken: Overwhelming evidence Venezuela opposition won election

His intervention comes as the presidents of Brazil, Mexico and Colombia all called on Venezuela to release the full details of last Sunday’s election.

It has also attracted global criticism, with many governments around the world demanding the Venezuelan government release proof of the result.

The result has been recognised by Venezuelan allies China, Russia and Iran.

But, the US, European Union and other G7 countries have called on Mr Maduro’s government to release detailed voting data.

DancingBear ,

We also have overwhelming evidence Blinken has supported multiple coup attempts in Venezuela throughout his career.

Downvote actual facts if you like, you’re only showing your bias.

enbyecho ,

Care to share that evidence?

DancingBear , (edited )

Absolutely, but if you were really interested in facts this information is not hard to find once you stop watching cable news……

I doubt you’ll read any of it but here is a random google search….

Details of a dozen or so coup attempts by us government

www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctv2tr51zb

Details of Blinken’s work history in the us government over this same period

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antony_Blinken#:~:text=He….

Bias report on the jstor.org showing reporting credibility as factual and also detailing any of their bias etc

mediabiasfactcheck.com/jstore-daily/

If you believe western media and United States governments reporting on issues in Venezuela, you’re critical thinking ability is non existent.

I’m not an expert on Venezuela, but again, western media and the USA government has zero credibility on issues concerning Venezuela.

enbyecho ,

Absolutely, but if you were really interested in facts this information is not hard to find once you stop watching cable news…… I doubt you’ll read any of it but here is a random google search….

Your snark, arrogance and cynicism are unwarranted and inappropriate.

But I do appreciate your providing some info - I was genuinely curious and didn’t quite know where to find this evidence - initial searches did not turn up the kind of “overwhelming evidence” you claimed existed. I’m not for a second disputing the USA’s involvement in coup attempts or regime change in general - I think this is quite adequately documented. But your claim was that there is “…overwhelming evidence Blinken has supported multiple coup attempts” but the best you can do is to essentially say he’s guilty of this personally because he has worked for the US government.

That’s honestly pretty weak.

TheAlbatross ,

The USA has tried to make coups happen in Venezuela like half a dozen times or more over the decades, I just cannot trust anything America says about the internal politics of Venezuela.

Not that it matters what I think, America will do whatever the fuck it wants.

WanderingVentra , (edited )

Surprised you’re getting downvoted. People must have a very short term memory. I’d wait a couple days for them to get full results. It took like a week for the 2020 election to get the full results and that’s in the US.

TheAlbatross ,

I’m on an instance that doesn’t allow downvotes and it kicks ass.

But people are goldfish when it comes to politics. They forget how the US tried to secretly arm groups supporting Juan Guaido so they could put him in charge like just a few years ago.

The US wants to open Venezuela’s natural resources, particularly lithium, to the West.

Valmond ,

Literally the whole world except dictatorships says it’s rigged, it’s not about the USA.

DancingBear ,

You’re very naive to say it’s not about the USA.

Kecessa ,

Here are the results based on the voting receipts that the government doesn’t want to release

…metabaseapp.com/…/6b2f7b3b-16ec-4af6-84c7-69c39e…

Kecessa ,

I’m Venezuela you can ask for a receipt of the votes for the place you voted at, the results have been compiled and made available by the opposition, Maduro got about a third of the votes, there’s a reason why he hasn’t released the numbers already.

WanderingVentra ,

Even in the US it can take a like a week to compile detailed election results. In the 2000 election, it took more than 30 days to settle the election. They ended up handing it to the conservatives and life has gone downhill for the US since. You may really believe it, but there are people in the US who thought Trump would win every state and have called it a steal ever since.

It’s definitely possible he stole it, it’s very in character, but the US has a vested interest in helping the opposition make up numbers and it’s very in character for them to help with a coup, too. I’m just going to keep an open mind for a couple more days probably, see if any more countries jump in being angry at Venezuela that aren’t US aligned or if any more evidence comes out.

AmidFuror ,

The election in 2000 took a long time because it was very close in one state that would make a difference.

The opposition in Venezuela for once was organized and unified. They put observers in most polling places, which is their right in Venezuela. They were still denied access in some of them.

All parties have a right to get the tally from each site prior to it being sent to the central committee. The opposition has presented the tally sheets to the press. The government has not.

The level of proof is incredible. It should not be necessary. And yet even with this in hand, people doubt because they like socialism.

WanderingVentra ,

Even in 2020, it took many days before they called the election and released counts. Maduro is saying they tried to release it but got hacked, which I know is unbelievable to people here, but it is 100% within the US’s power and interest to do so. I admit it doesn’t look good, but if the government doesn’t get data out within a couple days, I’d be more inclined to believe the opposition. I just don’t want to rush to anything considering the history of elections in this country and US meddling, it’s perhaps making me overly cautious lol.

Also, in their defense, socialism has helped people in countries of equivalent development more than capitalism every single time so that makes sense. Argentina has already speed run a higher inflation rate than Venezuela with their great capitalist policies. For globally south countries, “free markets” always means letting foreign companies trade local resources, at the cost of losing sanctions from those foreign companies, which artificially make it seem like those policies were better than they actually were. Maduro has made lots of mistakes but an alternate left candidate would be more likely to help the country than a right-wing one.

Now Venezuela isn’t super socialist, and I heard Gonzalez is supposed to be kinda centrist, so hopefully it’s not that bad if he ends up in charge. But currently, Machado also seems like the one saying everything and leading the movement, and she’s already revealed herself to be pro Zionist, which reveals a pro-imperialist sentiment, which is a red flag to me.

Kecessa , (edited )

You’re ignoring what I said on purpose? Voting is done electronically, the results have been released by the opposition, Maduro’s side is intentionally not making the proofs public.

Here are the results based on the voting receipts that the government doesn’t want to release

…metabaseapp.com/…/6b2f7b3b-16ec-4af6-84c7-69c39e…

WanderingVentra ,

There’s no way to independently verify that the opposition’s source data is accurate. It doesn’t mean much until we can see the official data to see if it can explain the discrepancies. If there’s no competing data released within the next couple days then we can take it at face value, and I’ll 100% accept it, but until then, I’d at least give them as much time as I gave Biden. That seems fair. Especially if they’re worried about hacks and opposition messing with the election data (and it’s not like the US doesn’t have a history of messing with elections so it’s not completely unbelievable despite everyone’s incredulity here).

Visstix ,

You’re acting like only America says something about it. Only the most scummy countries seem to “believe” maduro.

TheAlbatross , (edited )

No, I’ve just seen this kinda thing happen again and again, specifically with Venezuela. Sadly, the nation is getting used as a political battleground, so of course America and its allies are on one side and their rivals on the other.

Plus, the US has a long dark history of meddling in the politics of South American countries, this is absolutely the kind of thing it does to extert power.

OfCourseNot ,
@OfCourseNot@fedia.io avatar

A country full of resources is very often a curse for its people.

On a note, *meddling.

lennybird ,
@lennybird@lemmy.world avatar

This is not that.

Most of those failed interventions of Latin America mind you come from conservative administrations. Blinken isn’t a Neocon.

Maduro is corrupt as fuck and myriad independent nations and watchdogs corroborate the same point.

jonne ,

Blinken hasn’t said anything about the IDF committing war crimes in Gaza despite overwhelming evidence, so I’m going to say he’s being selective at least when it comes to reviewing evidence.

lennybird , (edited )
@lennybird@lemmy.world avatar

Yes that sucks. I have my thoughts on the Israeli conflict that add considerable nuance. However, we are discussing Latin America, which what I said is factually correct. Why are you deflecting to Israel now? I could just as easily point to Blinken highlighting the war crimes Russia has committed and which a Neocon never would’ve cared.

Once again, many nations corroborate this, and Maduro is known to be corrupt from the outset.

The allies supporting Maduro are… China…Iran… and Russia… Just bastions of freedom and transparency, amirite.

Strawberry ,

Just wanted to chime in and say that pointing to Blinken’s inconsistency on addressing oppressive regimes isn’t deflection, it’s context illuminating his motivations in the public statements he makes, this being one on Venezuela

lennybird ,
@lennybird@lemmy.world avatar

The way I see the current administration’s policy is this:

  • Obviously we’ve had longstanding defense agreements with Israel.
  • Obviously APAIC is an incredibly strong lobbyist
  • It’s dangerous to get ahead of polls and walk back defending Israel following October 7th
  • Especially when the Jewish-American electorate is every bit as vital to getting Democrats over the finish-line.
  • Now imagine if you will that Biden withdraws all aid to Israel, but then Bibi in a false-flag just so happens to say oopsies again and ignores intelligence and let’s another terrorist attack happen on Israeli soil. Democrats would lose in a landslide.

I think ultimately a lot of the optics right now is framed around getting reelected and ensuring Trump, who would be far more pro-genocide, doesn’t get in the White House. Blinken is clearly echoing marching orders from Biden in that respect.

Do I believe this administration at this point wants anything to do with Bibi in reality? Not really.

Someonelol ,
@Someonelol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I’m probably getting downvoted here, but I agree with your statement of the US having had a problematic history of usurping power from democratically elected governments in Central and South America. You can at least see that some of the countries that support Venezuela’s election results are run by dictators. Hell, Cuba and North Korea wouldn’t be out of place on that list too. Considering that Maduro lost a lot of popularity after Chavez’s death, partly due to the welfare system taking a huge hit when oil prices fell and partly due to him showing opulence in times of hunger.

All of these things may not be damning, but it puts the man in a bad light and makes me wonder if he actually did cheat the system in a way that our own domestic wannabe dictator tried doing just 4 years ago.

TokenBoomer ,
Visstix ,

Yes but the others are definitely worse.

TokenBoomer ,

What could be worse than an alliance with a genocidal party like Likud?

Kecessa ,

Here are the results based on the voting receipts that the government doesn’t want to release

…metabaseapp.com/…/6b2f7b3b-16ec-4af6-84c7-69c39e…

Valmond ,

Sigh. What about virtually every other country out there that is not a dictatorship saying it too?

AmidFuror ,

All US pawns. They said the same thing about the Soviets who brought a workers' paradise to Eastern Europe until the capitalists finally overthrew them.

Valmond ,

Ha ha ha you’re so funny.Or stupid. Or paid lol, because you just can’t be that ignorant lol fr.

But please continue mr zero awareness guy, at least nobody is going to fall for that level of bs.

SaltySalamander ,

Pretty sure they're just stupid.

Valmond ,

If true then that’s some impressive stupidity 😁

count_dongulus ,

Nice take edgelord. Living standards were quite low in the Soviet Union for the overwhelming majority of the population, and they had very little political freedom to imprpve them. Reforms were met with a coup attempt, and it fell apart into various states where even today many are not aligned with “the big spooky west”.

Ferrous ,

Do you understand what living conditions were like before the revolution? Socialism took an agrarian society and catapulted it into one that won the space race. Literaracy, food output, lifespan all increased during socialism, and they deteriorated again once the USSR devolved back into capitalism.

Valmond ,

Lol it advanced way faster in the west.

FireTower ,
@FireTower@lemmy.world avatar

I think most of this is attributable more so to the abolition of serfdom and the industrial revolution than the communist one. The US also had those improve during the same period too.

khannie ,
@khannie@lemmy.world avatar

the Soviets who brought a workers’ paradise to Eastern Europe

Lolol. Oh I’m chuckling away here. That’s so funny.

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

People really not picking up on your sarcasm

AmidFuror ,

It's fine. At least they're making my point for me.

valaramech ,
@valaramech@fedia.io avatar

The internet is filled with Schrodinger's Asshole. How is anyone supposed to know if you meant it sarcastically originally or are just claiming it was sarcastic now that it hasn't landed?

AmidFuror ,

I made a ridiculous argument so people could connect it to the ones being made about Venezuela. Sarcasm and satire can be very effective. Just because Poe says there's always one nut out there who actually believes in a ridiculous argument doesn't mean sarcasm shouldn't be used.

FireTower ,
@FireTower@lemmy.world avatar

NGL my first impression was no sarcasm because of the lack of s/. I thought Lemmygrad just had another leak.

thisbenzingring ,

I suspect you are either too young to have even known someone that grew up in a Soviet state or you are just a fucking useful idiot.

Excrubulent , (edited )
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

People like you make it harder to criticise the US for legitimate reasons.

Hell, “election monitoring” in South America is a pretty historically good reason to criticise them, but now anyone who wants to make this point has to grapple with being called a tankie, and we have to sit alongside statements like “the Soviets who brought a workers’ paradise”.

Gee, that might have happened if any functioning soviets actually survived the first couple of years of the USSR, and it hadn’t become a full-on counter-revolutionary state capitalist empire.

Edit: Actually looking at this person’s posts they appear to be sarcastic here. Sorry, but there are ways to do sarcasm that land, and this wasn’t it.

geneva_convenience ,

What about the election in Pakistan? That was clearly rigged yet the US never made a it a problem.

mlg ,
@mlg@lemmy.world avatar

If Maduro had acted like a good suckup dictator, all of this would be declared “internal matter of Venzuela” and Blinken would have moved on lol.

But no, he had to refuse the US’s foreign demands like he has sovereignty or something. Now we actually have to coup him for real this time, and make it look like we upgraded the democracy while doing it.

spoilerBut seriously rip Imran Khan. Pakistan had one big chance to save itself and it took the army like 5 seconds and a tiny IMF loan from the USA to burn it all down.

Doorbook ,

People should question the USA every time they talk about South American countries. The same as how people question China or Russia when they talk about bordering countries. Super power will do what they can to influence other countries and historical and recent events make it clear that the USA is willing to lie and defend its lies. So people have the right to not believe the USA.

FenrirIII ,
@FenrirIII@lemmy.world avatar

Love the whataboutism. Top notch shillwork.

wurzelgummidge ,

Overwhelming evidence

I wonder why he didn’t present any of it then. Looks pretty Donald Trump-like to me

kata1yst ,

Because the official evidence is held by the incumbent government. The evidence we do have access to, from extensive exit polls by neutral auditors to the mandated voting station slips (small pieces of paper that each voter is issued giving them the electronic count so far at that station) both track a 60 - 70% lead for the opposition.

In response, instead of releasing the official report, the incumbent government has brutally crushed several protests (even killing protestors), arrested the opposition, and claimed victory. Not exactly the pattern of behavior of an innocent victor.

wurzelgummidge ,

by neutral auditors

🤣

kata1yst ,

So release the official counts and let people compare their voting slips? Don’t arrest your opposition?

If it quacks like a dictatorship and stinks like a dictatorship…

WanderingVentra ,

They tried and the site got hacked.

takeda ,

LOL, what a convenient excuse.

nonailsleft ,

Of course, there is only one available domain to do this, and that was hacked. There is no possible other way to get that data out but that one website. And it is, forever, hacked.

Valmond ,

Lol sure. No other website can hold the data either, it’s gone now, like in an internet tube, vanished I say.

What an idiot lie.

BossDj ,

Just to clarify, the evidence provided by opposition is not from exit polls. The evidence is genuine voting receipts from the machines that are supposed to be* guaranteed to each party’s site observers

*Opposition says many of their observers were removed without being allowed access to their polling site receipts to explain why they didn’t have them all

The electronic machines provide every voter a paper receipt that shows which candidate they chose. Voters are supposed to deposit their receipts at ballot boxes before exiting the polls.

After polls close, each machine prints a tally sheet showing the candidates’ names and the votes each received. Party representatives stationed at polling sites throughout election day get a copy of the tally sheet, and electoral authorities keep another one.

AP News

Ranvier ,

Evidence was literally uploaded by the opposition, and has been analyzed by multiple news organizations already who agree with their conclusions. Not to mention the exit polls and other available public evidence.

…yahoo.com/masked-assailants-ransack-venezuela-op…

Here’s another organization that independently gathered many of the polling receipts with similar results:

…metabaseapp.com/…/6b2f7b3b-16ec-4af6-84c7-69c39e…

The opposition leader is in hiding (who was barred by Maduro’s government for running, among many other tactics with government powers Maduro used to try to tilt the vote in his favor). Maduro has rounded up over 1000 members of the opposition already to try and prevent this data from being gathered and take more political prisoners. The Carter Center, who Maduro government themselves invited as a monitor, said that:

“Venezuela’s electoral process did not meet international standards of electoral integrity at any of its stages and violated numerous provisions of its own national laws.”

www.cnn.com/2024/08/01/americas/…/index.html

The only one fighting transparency and trying to hide results here is Maduro. These tallies were all stored on qr codes. Maduro could have released them at anytime and chose not to. Could have instantly been released the night of the election, as they were coming in if he wanted. Can’t believe people on here are still falling for this dictator’s bald faced lies.

WanderingVentra ,

From what I heard, the government released them on a website but it got hacked and shut down. Now he released them to the Supreme Court and invited the opposition to look at them, but they didn’t show up.

I don’t agree with them arresting opposing candidates and stuff like that, but I also don’t trust the US’s opinions on this matter. They’ve tried to coup Venezuela basically every year and every election lol. The opposition releasing their interpretation of data is like Trumps saying they should’ve won from their polling data in all the red states. Idk, it’s very easy to manipulate, especially with US help.

Ranvier ,

The government did not release them, and you’ve provided no source for your claim. Also, showing up to a courthouse as they’re all rounded up and being thrown in a jail? Give me a break. Many countries are calling for the release of the results, including leftist governments like Colombia and Brazil.

WanderingVentra ,

Source for what? The hack? That claim has been in Western media, too.

I don’t think he’ll arrest Gonzalez because he knows it would backfire hard on him, but he does need to stop all the rhetoric about jailing his opposition. It’s certainly not helping.

Ranvier ,

There’s nothing in the source you linked about Maduro releasing results online and some “hack” not allowing it. Maduro has not released any results.

The source you linked does report all the things I’ve said in my comment again though.

And it’s not just rhetoric, he is jailing his opposition.

WanderingVentra ,

Sorry, I guess I was mistaken. Looks like the story is he tried to release them but got hacked. Thanks for catching that.

Right, but because they’re protesting and rioting. Even the US has done that for less. And within the last couple months.

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

Their Supreme Court is very biased towards PSUV. Letting them weigh in is like letting a fox count how many eggs are in your henhouse.

SaltySalamander ,
TokenBoomer ,
AmidFuror ,

Please make your point explicit. Ronald Reagan and other right-wingers opposed the Soviet Union. Does that mean the Soviet Union should have remained intact and counter-revolutionaries in Hungary, Czechoslovakia, and Poland kept suppressed?

TokenBoomer ,

Sir, this is a Wendy’s in Caracas.

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar
TokenBoomer ,

Let’s bring it full circle:

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/57b01cc1-bf4a-4d2a-b8bd-1471f3d61646.jpeg

Now, you may notice that some of these people were elected, while one was not.

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

Thank you for helping me make my point that posting a picture with politicians together is pretty meaningless. Anyone paying even the slightest attention to Venezuela knows Machado is a conservative. That doesn’t preclude the election from being rigged.

TokenBoomer ,

With such precedents, it is impossible to associate the image of María Corina Machado with that of a supposed positive change for Venezuela, an image she intends to present by claiming the status of an “outsider,” even though historically she has positioned herself as a political figure of the opposition establishment. The actors and influences that she promotes on Venezuelan soil come from outside the borders of the country and respond to political agendas in Florida and Washington DC. source.

Marco Rubio and Rick Scott agree with you.

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

Your source is bunk

And when it’s not safe for political dissidents to live in their home nation it’s not uncommon for them to be sheltered by a foreign government. Shit, the Kaiser is the one that sent Lenin back to Russia.

TokenBoomer ,

Dude, she has ties to Likud.

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah I don’t find that particularly palatable, but it’s still up to the people of Venezuela to decide who they want to lead them. This election result is a sham as far as it looks right now.

TokenBoomer ,

It might be a sham. There’s not enough reliable information to determine thus far. But that hasn’t stopped foreign governments and media from muddying the waters. The people of Venezuela should decide who leads them, not outside agitators.

voluble ,

Ahh, the US-Russia summit in Geneva in June 2021.

U.S. President Joe Biden and Russian President Vladimir Putin, whose countries hold 90% of the world’s nuclear weapons, agreed at a June summit in Geneva to embark on an integrated bilateral ‘Strategic Stability Dialogue’ to lay the groundwork for future arms control and risk reduction measures.

Reuters - U.S. and Russia say they held ‘substantive’ arms control talks in Geneva

Simpler times.

SRo ,

Yeah, poutine was not.

TokenBoomer ,

He was elected in 2000, María Machado is a pawn.

peopleproblems ,

I thought Venezuela hasn’t had a legitimately elected government in a very long time. Was something different this time?

Telodzrum ,

Chavez won, at least, his first election fairly and in a landslide. So, it’s been up to 25 years since the last free and fair election there.

FireTower ,
@FireTower@lemmy.world avatar

The result has been recognised by Venezuelan allies China, Russia and Iran.

The three countries most well known for their open and fair democratic processes.

/s

Evotech ,

Sussy af

sandbox ,

None of this “overwhelming evidence” has been presented to the public. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Opinion polls don’t count for shit. Show me proof of a fixed election and I’ll believe you, but right now this entire thing stinks of the US not getting to control Venezuela and being really fucking mad about it.

rbesfe ,

I’m sure you’ve done tons of research into these claims and are certainly not just making a loud uninformed take

sandbox ,

I’ve read a few articles. They’re all like, “we have sooooo much evidence that the election is rigged! Just so much!! But it goes to another school, so just trust me bro.”

I’m very happy to be proven wrong, if you have anything compelling to share, please do.

teamevil ,

Last time I heard that argument it was from coked out pillow con man

Cosmos7349 ,

o shit nice to see you again

teamevil ,

?

WanderingVentra , (edited )

Exactly. The opposition keeps saying they have proof but not revealing it. It’s all very Trumpian. He said they have proof the election was fixed, too. I’m starting not to believe the US in this one.

teamevil ,

I mean kinda me too…what I’m really afraid is that is foreshadowing November here

WanderingVentra ,

Oh damn, now you have me worried, too lol. I 100% bet Trump his team and their supporters will look to this election for lessons.

To be clear, I don’t think Maduro is a good guy at all, and he seems to be handling this terribly. But that only makes Venezuela easier to do this with, especially considering US interests in the region. (Insert Elon Musk’s “we can coup whoever we want” quote here.) Hopefully it all becomes clearer after the deadline Mexico, Brazil, and Colombia gave them to release full data and figure this out. Those 3 countries seem to be handling this the best by reaching out to both parties and handling this in a slow, calm manner. I’m trying to keep an open mind like them until then.

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

You can download the voter sheets that the opposition is presenting and investigate it yourself. Thankfully the AP already has (I trust them enough for this) and it indicates the government of Venezuela is lying

AmidFuror ,

I know we're not supposed to accuse others of being disingenuous actors on behalf of a criminal state, but it's getting hard to believe this many supposedly well read people are so ignorant of what happened in Venezuela.

the_post_of_tom_joad ,

They don’t. And they don’t need to! Being rude at people who disagree with the US State departments official position (which is not propaganda) is good enough, because propaganda = opinions that are not in line with the US state dept.

They believe that “fact” so powerfully that theyll get angry at you and insult you. Other facts become unnecessary if the person saying them is untrustworthy. Uncomfortable truths, any thoughts about the US’s many, many efforts to control the global south may be terminated along with the messenger.

Besides people use Ad hominem because it’s just so easy

tacosanonymous ,

Do you read what you have written and think, “yeah, that was a reasonable take?”

People are literally pointing this person toward the information they claim doesn’t exist. A few people were abrasive about it bc it comes up under an easy search. But they’ve ignored it, double down, and been dismissive.

Say what you want about the hive mind of Lemmy but be honest about this interaction.

AmidFuror ,
Kecessa ,
brucethemoose ,
MediaBiasFactChecker Bot ,

BBC News Media Bias Fact Check Credibility: [High] (Click to view Full Report)> Name: bbc.com> Bias: Left-Center
> Factual Reporting: High
> Country: United Kingdom
> Full Report: mediabiasfactcheck.com/bbc/
Check the bias and credibility of this article on Ground.News


Thanks to Media Bias Fact Check for their access to the API.
Please consider supporting them by donating.

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