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wolfylow ,

I think this is what happens when mainstream political parties legitimise this kind of anti-immigrant rhetoric.

Everyone is pointing at social media, what about Sunak/Braverman/Patel? Not to mention the odious Farage.

I lay a lot of the blame at their feet.

And also - I realise it makes no sense (the perpetrator is British born!) but as has so often been said: You can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into. So yeah, here we are. Madness.

Naich ,
@Naich@lemmings.world avatar

I left Reddit to get away from all the racist wankers and their “legitimate concerns”, and now they seem to be turning up here. Great.

lolcatnip ,

Lemmy is small enough that blocking them individually is an effective strategy.

roboto ,

I agree but I rather worry that they’ll take over here as well because more people read this and are like „wtf I’m out“. That’s what happened with me on Reddit too. I was still lurking before the blackout but it was often already kinda bad.

However now if I look at Reddit it’s no different than Facebook or instagram because I assume many mods left, and I mean those who actually cared about their community vs being in power. I think it’s bad if these „opinions“ are here, even though they get downvoted to oblivion. They will just poison the discourse.

And don’t get me wrong, plurality of opinion is very important. But Nazi bots do not play by the rules, they do not contribute to said plurality, they want to destroy it and take over any space where people exchange opinions.

lolcatnip ,

I agree just blocking people isn’t a good strategy long-term. Lemmy at least needs support for collaborative block lists.

FelixCress , (edited )

I still remember what my grandfather who fought in WW2 told me: “You don’t speak to nazis. You shoot nazis.”

Times have changed, so I would be entirely happy with all the Nazis deported to Rwanda.

Maggoty ,

Holy shit these early comments. Who the fuck rang the bell over at Racists R Us?

cyborganism , (edited )

This is a touchy situation. In England, like in France, there’s been increasing cases of acts of armed aggression, violence and terrorism from extremist Islamist groups. There is a lot of Islamic radicalization happening in Muslim communities.

It’s a real concern for public safety and people have grown tired of living in fear of the next attack.

There were neighborhoods in cities in both of these countries that if you’re a non Muslim or if you don’t follow the strict rules like women wearing headscarves, you get harassed and attacked.

This anger wasn’t born just out of thin air or only racism.

However, the root cause for this radicalization comes from two things: the frustration from Muslims facing discrimination in the UK and France and colonialism and conflicts in Muslim countries where the UK and France are involved. When Muslims get treated differently at school, face racism, can’t find jobs are their needs are not being met, you get frustration and anger and it gets exploited by bad influences.

Edit:

I think people misunderstood what I said here. What in saying is that discrimination and racism and colonialism has led to injustices towards Muslims. In turn, some of them have been exploited and turned into radical Islamists and there’s been increasing numbers in some areas. Some also turned to a life of crime.

But that’s just what happened when any group of people are faced with this kind of discrimination and violence. It isn’t just a Muslim thing.

I don’t hate people for being Muslims. I do hate all religions though.

saltesc ,

I think it’s fine to be pissed off about any religion, especially if it’s bringing harm and unrest to a community/culture. Historically kind of religion’s thing…

But the second anyone brings ethnicity into it…

cyborganism ,

Well with Islam and ethnicity, they’re very closely tied together to a point that criticism of Islam is often perceived as racism. That’s a big problem.

SuckMyWang ,

It’s a lie. Just like being anti Zionist is racist. It’s not. Can happily critisize problematic teachings of religious doctrines while having zero problems with a person of that race who also disagrees with the doctrine.

cyborganism ,

I know it is. I’m totally on your side.

lolcatnip ,

Can happily critisize problematic teachings of religious doctrines while having zero problems with a person of that race who also disagrees with the doctrine.

What race? If you criticize a religion in a way that sounds like you’re attacking a particular race, you’re either being speaking from a place of racism, or you need to seriously rethink the way you’re expressing your criticism.

SuckMyWang ,

No. If you read the thread this is in reference to people who attempt to tie their own race with religion. Eg Jewish people who believe an anti Zionist statement is anti Jewish or a criticism of parts of the Koran is somehow an attack on Arab people

AWittyUsername , (edited )

Same thing with Jews and Judaism

cyborganism ,

Huh??

Mrkawfee ,

These far right roots are rioting because of bullshit. The murderer wasn’t Muslim but the fascists still used that fake pretext to stir up trouble.

cyborganism ,

Yes, I’ve heard about what happened and you’re absolutely right. That event and that hate group sparked those riots based on misinformation. And no, all Muslims shouldn’t be demonized and protested against. If anything, it’s only going to worsen the situation.

I was just stating the facts about the reality in France and the UK regarding the issues they’re been facing with radicalized Islamists that have been growing in numbers and causing violent agressions and terrorist attacks. It’s a real issue.

Maggoty ,

This was absolutely born out of of racism and propaganda. The guy who did it is from Wales. They rioted because they were told he was an immigrant.

And yes there are bad parts in any city that harass women. That’s why they prefer the bear. It has nothing to do with being an immigrant or not.

cyborganism ,

I’m not denying that at all. I completely agree. But we can’t deny that the terrorist attacks that happened in the past didn’t help either.

Maggoty ,

Sure, but one terrorist attack does not justify another. And crime stats just don’t support this idea of immigrant criminality.

KevonLooney ,

There were neighborhoods in cities in both of these countries that if you’re a non Muslim or if you don’t follow the strict rules like women wearing headscarves, you get harassed and attacked.

Name the cities and neighborhoods or you’re lying. It’s possible someone mislead you, but if you repeat it without verification you’re still lying.

This is like the thing conservatives said about “cities burning to the ground” because of BLM. Whenever you looked into it, it was some rando not associated with any group. Or possibly a right-wing agitator.

Stop repeating the game of telephone. You can literally go to Saudi Arabia without wearing a headscarf. You think Paris is going to be stricter?

cyborganism ,

Don’t know specifically about the UK, but in France there are definitely no go areas in Paris, Marseille and Montpellier. You can look them up. Paris has the 19e arrondissement, Marseille has the 16e for example.

KevonLooney ,

“Definitely”? Lol. You are just repeating 10 year old “Fox and Friends” nonsense. The 19th in Paris is just a working class neighborhood.

slate.com/…/paris-no-go-zones-what-life-in-pont-d…

cyborganism ,

When’s the last time you actually went to France? Or spoken with someone who lives there?

KevonLooney ,

Lol. Yeah man. No one ever goes to Paris.

cyborganism ,

My friend. I go to France every year. I usually land in Marseille to go visit my in laws.

Two years ago I took a wrong turn and ended up in a car jacking situation. My GPS told me to go through some apartment building parking at night. There were a couple of watchers who gave a signal to a group who had laid down grocery carts up make a barrage. I had to gun it to go around before they closed it. And when I reached the exit of the parking just on the other side, we got cut off by a black Mercedes that blocked the exit. I had to drive over a curb as the group was surrounding our car.

I fucking experienced it.

My in-laws tell me about how they’re scared to go out at night in their town in Valence.

Friends living near Marseille who worked there specifically told us not to visit without them as guides or else it would be too dangerous.

My co workers are practically all French expats from Paris who moved to Quebec in the past 5-10 years and they’ve told me themselves how much of a shit show it has become.

So you can believe what you want. But I’ve actually been there and know people from there and what I’m saying is from their accounts. Not from some news channel in the US.

KevonLooney ,

You were talking about “no go zones” where women are supposedly attacked for not covering their heads in Paris. Now you’re describing some random attempted robbery in Marseille. Those are 100% not the same, unless the carjackers had an ISIS flag or something.

I think you need therapy for PTSD or something. Your experience might be affecting your judgement.

cyborganism ,

I’m still talking about those zones.

They were Muslims. There were a couple of girls in the group at the barrage that had the full garb. They yelled at each other in Arabic.

KevonLooney ,

Ok man, whatever. Conveniently everyone in your story agrees with you. I’m sure they all clapped as you escaped dramatically.

AWittyUsername ,

It’s thin air and racism. To argue other than that is ignorance and racism. Attacking innocent people no matter what you think a select few from their community do is racism.

cyborganism ,

I agree. That’s why I think this whole situation is sad.

gmtom ,

There were neighborhoods in cities in both of these countries that if you’re a non Muslim or if you don’t follow the strict rules like women wearing headscarves, you get harassed and attacked.

No there isn’t. This is just daily mail nonsense.

Source: I’m visibly gay and live in one of these famous “no go areas”

cyborganism ,

Ok well maybe in the UK. But in France I know for a fact there are neighborhoods where even the police don’t go anymore because it’s too dangerous.

gmtom ,

Damn, really? Where specifically?

cyborganism ,

I answered that same question to another user on this same comment.

There are a few arrondissement in Paris, Marseille and Montpellier among others that you just don’t want to go there because they’re dangerous. Especially at night.

symthetics ,

You write with such confidence while providing no evidence.

Hyperbolic bullshit.

veganpizza69 ,
@veganpizza69@lemmy.world avatar

It’s bad faith. Mentioning facts to them is pointless, this is the result of allowing these assholes to recruit and organize for years.

ogmios ,
@ogmios@sh.itjust.works avatar

Really? It’s the far right they’re worried about?

cRazi_man ,

I don’t know anything about the situation. What should they be worried about?

ogmios ,
@ogmios@sh.itjust.works avatar

From what I’ve been hearing, a lot of groups that aren’t exactly considered part of the traditional left/right political divide.

YeetPics ,
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

Groups like?..

SkunkWorkz ,

English Defence League, bunch of Nazis.

wanderer ,

The English Defence League are a far-right, Islamophobic organisation in England.

So, they should be worried about the far right.

roguetrick ,

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Position

It’s a common fascist talking point. I’m surprised any of those fucks bother posting on Lemmy.

BuddyTheBeefalo OP ,

independent.co.uk/…/sunderland-riot-latest-southp…

Gsus4 ,
@Gsus4@mander.xyz avatar

I know the far left also riots, but this time it’s the far right…

lolcatnip ,

tHe FaR LeFt!

Gsus4 ,
@Gsus4@mander.xyz avatar

Uga buga!

lolcatnip ,

How easily you’re reduced from verbal nonsense to nonverbal nonsense!

Gsus4 ,
@Gsus4@mander.xyz avatar

the internet needs clowns like us every now and then to keep things light. 🤡 🤡

thecam ,
@thecam@lemmy.world avatar

Based

fart_pickle ,

It’s funny how indigenous population who’s scared about their wellbeing is called “far-right”. Focus on stabbings, rapes and other pressing issues.

blackn1ght , (edited )

Funny how there was no rage when Lucy Letby was found guilty or that guy who very recently murdered the mother and daughters with a crossbow.

itslilith ,
@itslilith@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

“scared about their well-being”

sure, buddy

Why9 ,

Indigenous population scared about their wellbeing? Wellbeing from what? What possible threat has the indigenous population faced recently that you need to be all up in arms about it?

This is a report on Gov.uk

In 2022/23, white individuals accounted for 78% of arrests, 8% were of black individuals, 8% were of Asian individuals, 4% were of mixed ethnicity individuals and 2% were of other ethnicity individuals

In 2022, 77% of all males prosecuted for indictable offences were from the white ethnic group, compared to 86% of all females prosecuted

Since 2018, white defendants have had a consistently lower average custodial sentence length (ASCL) than all other ethnic groups combined for indictable offences.

Black prisoners served the greatest proportion of their original sentence in custody.

What is your point? What are you up in arms about exactly?

fart_pickle ,

Now, let’s put this into perspective - gov.uk/…/ethnicity-and-the-criminal-justice-syste…

If you want to provide data, do it as a whokr, not what fits your point of view.

sazey ,

What are you pointing to exactly in that lengthy report pal? Graphic below seems pretty much on par with what person previous to you was saying.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/1e2ed387-fe16-4a77-bbb0-84addfc3d5e5.png

GreyEyedGhost ,

Compare, say, convictions by race to population by race. When 3% of the population is black and 10%of the convictions are black people, there’s an odd disparity. Now, a number of things could be happening there. Maybe black people are committing 3 times more crime than the population average. Maybe cops are charging black people more for a given crime than other races. Maybe black people are disadvantaged in some other way that’s causing more crime than the average. The chart doesn’t really say, and I’m not interested in doing a deep sociopolitical dive to have an idea why.

There are certainly issues with cultural beliefs causing crime which really can’t be ignored. Honor killings, where, for instance, a woman is killed because getting raped brings dishonor to the family and killing her somehow restores it, will increase crime rates on a purely cultural basis. But this chart isn’t going to show that, either. My Caribbean friend and my Nigerian friend have very different opinions on certain subjects, because culture doesn’t necessarily follow skin color.

sazey ,

Very well put, no idea why you’re getting downvoted. Probably offended someone’s sensibility because you didn’t worship at the alter of immigration and diversity. But latest research apparently shows we just may be able to acknowledge culture specific issues without giving into racist twattery. Sounds far fetched to me but I like to keep an open mind.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

indigenous population

Which ones are indigenous, the ones that came over with the Celts, the ones that came over with the Romans, the ones that came over with the Angles and Saxons, the ones that came over with the Norman French… or are we talking about the hunter-gatherers displaced by the Celts here? Do we need to test some DNA?

Transporter_Room_3 ,
@Transporter_Room_3@startrek.website avatar

What percentage of their DNA is from Homo Neanderthalensis?

DJDarren ,

What about the bloody Beaker folk, eh?

Annoyed_Crabby ,

It’s rich coming from a country that used to colonize all across the world, displace and genocide indigenous people, exploit the country’s resource, divide and conquering the people of their colony, and even deliberately causing famine. Even the decolonization aren’t due to good will but simply running out of money. Now a lonewolf knife attack by an immigrant and they’re bitching about their indigenous people’s safety. My country were colonized by British and their divide and conquer tactic is still pretty much alive right now. Apologies for that, bitch.

EinfachUnersetzlich ,

lonewolf knife attack by an immigrant

The dude wasn’t an immigrant, he’s from Wales.

Annoyed_Crabby ,

Sorry i didn’t catch much detail of the perpetrator from the news i read, but that make it even ridiculous.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I do love the British who have this “we colonized them and now they have the gall to come over here” attitude.

chuckleslord ,

When you’re goose-stepping around town, do you have to keep a mouth guard just in your mouth the whole time, or do you discretely pocket it until the day inevitably turns on you? I’ve always wanted to know and never got to talk to an actual out-and-out fascist before. Ya know, you suspect some people, but you’re just brave enough to come out and say it.

But seriously, leave lemmy and don’t come back. Thanks!

gmtom ,

Go back to reddit.

symthetics ,

Indigenous population? Hahaha go and read some history.

MediaBiasFactChecker Bot ,

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> Factual Reporting: Mixed
> Country: United Kingdom
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thecam ,
@thecam@lemmy.world avatar

The police should be worried about them “fiery but mostly peaceful protestors”, not anything that is labelled as “right wing”.

Why9 ,

Ok, let’s compare, shall we?

Millions of people out protesting over the murder of thousands of children in Gaza, and protesting the UK’s complicity in those crimes by directly sending weapons to Israel. No crimes committed, no riots, no disorder. There were a couple who held up flags and inflammatory symbols or shouted crude slogans and they went peacefully when they were arrested.

Thousands of children murdered, peaceful protest.

In contrast, a far-right counter protest against the Palestine march in London ends with the thugs clashing with police, being violent and causing damage politico.eu/…/uk-far-right-football-hooligans-bla…

Recently, 3 girls brutally and abhorrently murdered in Southport, but EDL thugs who honestly couldn’t care less about the victims and just wanted a scrap, took to the streets and torched police vehicles, injured many offers. The perpetrator ended up being a Christian, and yet the EDL mob went and targeted a mosque.

3 children murdered, outright anarchy.

EDL have proven that they’re just in it for the fight. They just want blood and they don’t care what the trigger is. Absolutely pathetic. They piss about in school, get bugger all in the way of grades and end up at the building site, blaming immigrants for their troubles. Spineless knobgobblers, the lot of them.

Fades ,

Bigots never miss an opportunity

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