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theywilleatthestars ,

At this point he’s better at campaigning for Biden than pretty much anyone I’ve seen who’s telling me to vote for him.

match ,
@match@pawb.social avatar

I actually had to pause and consider whether this could be some kind of pro-Bidem propaganda.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Bit of both but mostly propaganda. Biden has temporarily paused the 2000 pound bombs but other weapons are still flowing.

Also Biden recently pushed through a massive F15 sale to israel.

What people don’t realize is that the sliiiightest bit of not obeying israel will get one branded as Hamas.

alcoholicorn ,

And yet Biden continues to send the weapons and money.

It’s both malicious and incompetent. No matter how much foreign blood Biden promises spill, republicans will double it. By trying to appeal to “moderate” fascists, they’re just demotivating their base, while fascists will vote for the real thing over diet fascism.

thesporkeffect ,

Is this maybe a situation where Bibi knows he’s politically toxic and is (at least partially) running some cover for allies? I don’t think he’s that smart but it kinda works out that way, since I haven’t heard of delayed shipments recently otherwise

match ,
@match@pawb.social avatar

Bibi knows Biden is worse for him than Trump would be, so I think that’s unlikely

eestileib ,

Netanyahu is an OG Trump ally. He is going to try to screw Biden any way he can.

frankgrimeszz , (edited )

And yet, just weeks ago an American brand shell that hit a school in Gaza and killed 40+ was found.

www.npr.org/…/israel-gaza-school-strike-us-bomb

Xeroxchasechase ,

The destroyer of Israel

KoboldCoterie ,
@KoboldCoterie@pawb.social avatar

“During World War II, Churchill told the United States, ‘give us the tools, we’ll do the job.’ And I say, give us the tools and we’ll finish the job a lot faster,” Netanyahu said in the video.

Yeah, that’s what we’re afraid of, and exactly why we don’t want to give you the weapons.

ThePowerOfGeek ,
@ThePowerOfGeek@lemmy.world avatar

Comparing himself to Churchill defending the UK from the Nazis has got to be the shittiest analogy I’ve heard in a long time. You aren’t Churchill in this situation, Netanyahu. You’re the invader hell-bent on wiping out a population.

Zehzin ,
@Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

TBH He’s just as racist as Churchill

ThePowerOfGeek ,
@ThePowerOfGeek@lemmy.world avatar

That is a very fair point!

There’s already a strong emotional connection between Irish and Palestinian people (as shown by Ireland being one of the first European countries to officially recognize Palestine recently). Now there’s another association - Churchill and Netanyahu’s loathing for their respective people.

Zehzin ,
@Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

I was thinking India, actually. How he said Indians are a “beastly people with a beastly religion”, but yeah the Irish too.

ThePowerOfGeek ,
@ThePowerOfGeek@lemmy.world avatar

Oh he was a total shitheel to so many different people. Very effective wartime leader, but a horrible human being.

DragonTypeWyvern ,

A primer for those interested:

…wikipedia.org/…/Racial_views_of_Winston_Churchil…

Burn_The_Right ,

And just as genocidal as Hitler.

d00phy ,

It’s a simple dog whistle. He’s reminding everyone of the holocaust w/o saying the word.

Alteon , (edited )

Hey! Where’s the Russian Agents, I mean MAGA Patriots, I mean Genocide Joe crowd at rn? You know the ones that constantly complain that Biden should have personally airdropped over Gaza and personally saved the children? You know, the ones that demand Biden to destroy any and all ties to an ally that may or may not have long lasting repercussions with our existing allies? You know, the ones that actually think geopolitics are easy?

Voyajer ,
@Voyajer@lemmy.world avatar

It’s 22:00 in moscow, they’re probably getting ready to sleep.

alcoholicorn ,

I don’t know who you’re talking about that believes anything you’ve claimed, but the people who don’t want Biden to send Israel the weapons they’re using to carry out a genocide are still angry that Biden is sending Israel weapons, which they’re using to carry out a genocide.

If your understanding of geopolitics somehow has you justifying helping Israel blowing up kids in Palestine or Saudi Arabia blowing up school buses in Yemen or american occupiers cause famine in Syria, you’ve completely lost the plot.

Not blowing up children is more important than American hegemony in the middle east.

Cryophilia ,

I don’t know who you’re talking about

The fuck you don’t lmao

What the fuck is this gaslighting bullshit. “Tankies? Never heard of em”

alcoholicorn ,

Not a single person expects Biden to personally drop into Gaza. Good job with that strawman though.

Cryophilia ,

That’s not what I said, gaslighter

alcoholicorn ,

You know the ones that constantly complain that Biden should have personally airdropped over Gaza and personally saved the children?

Your words are right there

Cryophilia ,

Literally not my words, dumbass

match ,
@match@pawb.social avatar

I was getting lunch :c

Maeve ,

Hope it was agreeable and delicious!

Deinonychusanti ,

“Everything i don’t like is Russian or Chinese.”

Alteon ,

I mean, we literally know that Russia and China is antivax conspiracies, and anti-demoracy, pro-fascism rhetoric that people absolutely just eating up. Anything they can do to help push the nation to be more right-leaning is better for them.

JaymesRS ,

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

hakunawazo ,

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/1b7017b6-386a-4ce2-b5eb-b1e3e92b8d0f.gif

return2ozma OP ,
@return2ozma@lemmy.world avatar

Not another weapon. Cut off funding.

andrewrgross ,

Yeah, and more importantly, Biden needs to learn the public component of diplomacy.

I read his interview in Time, and it’s weird, because it at least gave me some aspect into what he’s thinking.

He’s old as fuck. He has learned decades of procedures and standard practice in diplomacy, and he does NOT understand that a lot of it happens in the open now. Biden thinks he’s playing chess with all the diplomatic messages he sends along backchannels, and he has no idea that this is just an arm wrestling match now. People judge you by what you say and do transparently.

Biden legit thinks he and Bibi are like cousins who grew up together who are having a tough fight, and Bibi is all fucking politics. He’d slit any throat he has to get what he wants, and he will bury Biden in a heartbeat.

Biden should go to Israel, and in a public address announce that the country is turning a corner: it will be safer than ever, and America is going to assist with a long term peace process, which they won’t lead but will provide security guarantees for. And don’t tell Bibi any of this in advance. And when Bibi reacts, say that Bibi has lost his trust and that of the elected public, and they need to hold new elections before getting any new weapons. Get some 'nads, man!

I wouldn’t mind a complete cut-off in weapons, but I also wouldn’t mind if they continue to supply rocket defenses or something if its part of a pressure campaign to send Netanyahu packing. I want Israeli prosecutors and the Hague to argue over who gets to lock his ass up first.

alcoholicorn ,

part of a pressure campaign to send Netanyahu packing

4% of Jewish Israelis feel the IDF has gone too far

This isn’t just Netanyahu or his administration, this is most non-arab Israelis. Every time you translate an Israeli twitter post or media, it’s like you found a lost page from Mein Kampf

andrewrgross , (edited )

That is very true. Joey Ayoub of The Fire These Times coined a phrase months ago for describing the mainstreaming of genocidal ideation among the public, which I keep returning to: “The Smotrich-ization of the Israeli public”. It’s real, and it’s terrifying.

Still, my impression is that Israelis are in a weird, weird, weird place:

  • They are largely supportive of the war, but most want a ceasefire deal that would bring home the hostages.
  • They are largely furious at Netanyahu, though his support has recently started to go back up.
  • There has been enormous pro-democracy anti-government protests before the war, then there were demonstrations demanding negotiations for a hostage release that were supposed to be explicitly distinct from anti-government demonstrators, and there are also pro-ceasefire, pro-hostage demonstrations that are explicitly NOT distinct from the pro-democracy anti-government demonstrations.
  • Most Israelis don’t believe the war has “gone too far”, but also many Israelis feel that the war has been mishandled (largely due to the cost on Israeli troops, the economy, and international standing).
  • There is support for the IDF, but also fury and blame at the IDF for failing so catastrophically during Oct. 7.
  • There is also widespread anger at the far right for insisting on exempting the ultraorthodox from conscription, while troop shortages force middle-age reservists back into service, but there’s no clear indication that anyone has any leverage to impose on the far and ULTRA FAR right, who have been essentially governing Israel with smug impunity for months now.
  • And, overall, Israelis seem to like Biden a lot.

I apologize that i don’t have sources for each of these, these are just a collection of insights I recall reading in the last few months.

Ultimately, I think they’re largely out of answers AND being herded aggressively by a well-tuned state propaganda machine, which means that I think their attitudes are in flux. I think they could be led in many directions, and many futures are possible. Right now though, the most successful shepherds are Smotrich and Ben-Givir.

Lastly, there are a few very small Palestinian-Jewish unity groups. These may look irrelevant considering their numbers are so few, but when people ask where we could find leaders capable of negotiating peace (considering most of the Palestinian ones have been killed to prevent any peace process), I think this would be where we’d find them. Despite their numbers, they terrify the far right. They face extreme threats of violence, and I think that reaction belies the threat they pose to Jewish Supremacy.

Cryophilia ,

Damn, it’s a shame that you - who are clearly so much smarter and more knowledgeable than everyone involved - aren’t running things. Surely no armchair general would ever second guess your approach to handling complex international diplomacy.

I’m glad at least someone has it all figured out, if only Biden would reach out to you personally.

disguy_ovahea , (edited )

I think we have an obligation to provide Iron Dome defensive munitions as long as there is threat of attack on Israel. Despite common opinion, there are plenty of innocent Israelis that are not behind Netanyahu or Zionism that deserve to live without being bombed, just like Palestinians.

Edit: Those of you that paint all Israelis with one brush are no better than Netanyahu labeling all Palestinians as Hamas. Just sayin.

alcoholicorn ,

there are plenty of innocent Israelis

That’s complicated. Would you have said we needed to continue supporting Apartheid South Africa’s military because there were innocent Boers?

When the Israeli national project is ended, then sure we’ll have a responsibility to ensure Palestine respects the rights of all people living in its territory.

disguy_ovahea , (edited )

Ask yourself. Were you an American citizen when when Trump enabled the sexual abuse of tens of thousands of immigrant children, or currently while Biden supports the Israeli genocide? Has your nation’s government ever acted in hostility against your interests? Are you complicit? Do you deserve protection from bombings?

alcoholicorn ,

No, but also kinda? It’s complicated. If someone had the power to help those immigrant children escape, it would be silly to pretend they must endure the continuing injustice for fear they might hurt an “innocent” escaping the concentration camp.

disguy_ovahea , (edited )

What power do Israelis have in uninstalling Netanyahu? They’re protesting in the tens of thousands to remove him. It’s doing nothing. He was elected prior to Oct. 7 and the subsequent genocidal response. My point is, the actions of a government do not represent the entirety of its people.

Netanyahu has a favorability of 32% in Israel.

Trump is currently polling at 42% in the US.

Maeve ,

I mean, distanced emotionally? Should we be judged and judgement meted out differently than we and our dubious allies judged and delivered judgement? I prefer peace, but we are a warmongering nation. I don't want it to happen, but where I'm from, the saying goes, "if you keep picking, you'll eventually get what you're picking for."

Lionheadbud ,

Would Israelis be so in favour of war if bombs were landing on them too?

disguy_ovahea ,

It doesn’t matter if you look to the left or the right. There’s always a sickness that allows people to justify killing. It’s loathsome.

spartanatreyu ,
@spartanatreyu@programming.dev avatar

Looking back at history, it would lead to more propaganda and more support for going to war.

A population getting attacked only leads to that population wanting to an us vs them mentality and emotional knee-jerk reactions over rational responses.

Skydancer ,

Can’t help noticing that you make no mention of providing similar defensive capabilities to Palestine. Kind of undercuts your argument.

disguy_ovahea ,

I completely agree that the US should defend Palestinians, as well as assist in their reconstruction needs. I was talking about amending munitions agreements. In that respect, I think the US should exclusively provide Iron Dome defensive munitions to Israel. They deserve no support in attacking other nations.

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