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pineapplefriedrice ,

They’re fighting a losing battle, but I hope a side effect of it is that new people come in and change both the economics and artistry of Hollywood. Most Hollywood content sits in a very rigid box. It’s repetitive, unoriginal, and unappealing. People are encouraged to eat ramen for every meal in order to “make it”, simply because far too many of them try (which is partially the result of the “follow your dreams” narrative in America as well). The further down you are, the worse your compensation. Good ideas get missed or thrown out and relegated to dollar theatres all the time.

If this strike goes on long enough that it starts to flush people out, I’m ok with that. Sucks for the people who are going to lose their livelihoods, but for some of them that was an eventuality. Hopefully in the end creators will have more creative freedom and receive more proportional compensation.

Spesknight ,

The movie industry needs a bigger market for independent movies. Look at the videogames, the indies are holding the creativity among a similar crisis for the aaa titles as for the movies. We need an “EA Orginals” for the majors…

PopOfAfrica ,

I feel like A21 is doing this well, and releasing some bangers.

mrheadroom ,

Agreed, A21 has a few outstanding originals each year

MixedRaceHumanAI ,

A21 is for children and family, right?

WarmSoda ,

Yes. Bring your toddler to a A21 film.

PopOfAfrica ,

Marcelle the Shell is a family film… So yes?

Aux ,

Indy game industry has exploded thanks to benevolent monopoly of Steam. There was a chance for indy cinema when Netflix started, but that’s long gone with every studio having their own streaming service.

atzanteol ,

But I wanna see Indiana Jones 6: The search for more money!

itsJoelleScott ,

They’re fighting a losing battle, but I hope a side effect of it is that new people come in and change both the economics and artistry of Hollywood. Most Hollywood content sits in a very rigid box. It’s repetitive, unoriginal, and unappealing.

My two cents is there’s a structural issue that’s converged to strictly Campbellian story-telling as the end-all-be-all structure. Sure, you’ll have something come out of HBO or AppleTV that breaks it, but AAA movies rarely break it.

ansimation ,

boo hoo

Lenins2ndCat OP ,
@Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world avatar

🥾 👅

TendieMaster69 ,

I have mixed feelings about this. I hope they all are compensated fairly, but technology keeps getting better and capitalism latches on to the absolute cheapest solution. If that includes firing most employees and using AI to save billions a year then they will do it. I think this will just excacerbate AI proliferation in the end. Alas, no one gets paid to strike in America.

englishlad ,

This is why governments need to get involved legislationing profits from AI work. Shareholders can’t be the beneficiary of lower costs from AI when it means workers lose their jobs. There needs to be an AI specific tax, to support people losing their livelihoods.

vimdiesel ,

I think they are doing the right thing before AI gets firmly set in as the “norm” and that laws are put in place that movies have to use human actors, or they get labeled properly as AI movies so we can skip them if we don’t approve of AI taking over the industry.

boonhet ,

so we can skip them if we don’t approve of AI taking over the industry.

Spoiler alert: Nobody will give a fuck, people will watch AI movies, and human actors will lose their jobs.

The only question is, shall we tax AI usage and implement UBI? Or watch as entire industries full of people will be laid off? And HOW to tax AI usage? Just implement huge taxes on dividends, stock buybacks and annual salaries and bonuses > 10 mill?

HamSwagwich ,

Very true. The amount of luddites in this thread are amazing.

It sounds like angry old people telling at a car in the horse era. It’s happening whether you like it or not. Taxing it as a special case is ridiculous, especially since it just means you move your operations to a friendly jurisdiction that won’t tax you.

Happened with a large portion of Hollywood moving to Canada awhile back.

It will happen with AI. Embrace it and find a way to make money with it. Fighting it won’t do any good.

This is what separate successful people from failures. Most people are failures because they can’t envision a way to adapt so rail against progress. Those that see an opportunity instead of a problem are the ones they are going to succeed.

TheActualDevil ,

Yeah. Fuck collective action and an entire industry fighting for their own survival. You get yours!

funkless ,

the car replaced the horse, the plane replaced the ship, we still drive, we still travel.

My prediction is that AI will replace the PC like it replaced the typewriter, like it replaced the quill.

People will still write and act, but it will be a faster process.

Syringe ,

Just like the last writers strike produced an endless unmitigated firehose of reality TV and bastardized all the good TV channels, this move is going to double down on that model

AI isn’t going to be able to do what actors can do. Not for some time yet. The content will probably start off okay, but we’ve already seen issues with AI used for “creative” purposes. It sucks. The quality of content on streaming platforms is already hurting. This is going to make it even shittier.

Something will get figured out, because now there are gonna be a lot of people sitting around at home with no bread and no games.

Misconduct ,

Well, yeah. That’s part of why they’re on strike lol. They are very aware of that threat. Everyone is

Zagorath ,
@Zagorath@aussie.zone avatar

The actors’ anti-AI protests are much, much stronger than the writers’ (and I say this as someone who is nevertheless 100% supportive of the writers’ demands vis-a-vis AI). Because the actors are literally talking about studios demanding to have the right to use their likeness. That’s not a technological hurdle that has to be overcome, it’s literally just profiting off of someone else’s image without having to pay them. A mere $200 to hire an actor for one day, and they own their likeness in perpetuity; that’s what studios are supposedly asking for.

The writers’ case is still very strong, in my opinion. Because their fear (and I think it’s very founded) is not that their jobs will be replaced by AI. Not in a real sense. But that they’ll be forced to do like 90% of the work for like 50% of the pay because of studios’ use of AI. The way studio credits/payment works for writers, “revising” an existing script pays less than writing a script fresh. So if the studios can create a really shitty script with AI and hand it to a writer who has to do a significant amount of work editing it to be in an actually-usable state. But because they’re being paid to revise it, not write it, they don’t get paid commensurate to the amount of work actually being done.

In theory, the writers’ case could eventually be harmed by actual use of AI in a way that the actors’ simply cannot (an AI could theoretically eventually replace an actor entirely, but that’s not the debate on the table right now). I think that “eventually” is much further away than most techbros seem to suggest, because frankly LLMs are just not as close to AGI as it seems they usually get thought of as. But that eventually could happen, and then the nature of a writers’ job will have to change more substantially in a way that does hurt them quite a bit more. Though it’s worth noting that AI is even further away from doing the less-obviously-“writery” work writers do, which often sets them on the path to becoming directors and producers, and without that pipeline for creating the higher-level roles, film studios are going to struggle to keep making films.

EmperorHenry ,
@EmperorHenry@lemmy.world avatar

I’m glad more and more workers are realizing the power they have over the industries they’re working in.

Without the workers, the businesses have nothing. We really need to have a serious revolution before they replace all jobs with AI robots.

Idea1407a ,

“Women and men, let no one miss today! Death to the machines!”

  • Metropolis
Open ,
@Open@lemmy.world avatar

Is $25,000 per annum a living wage LA? To think that these are getting so little is nuts.

ivemadeamoostake ,
@ivemadeamoostake@lemmy.ca avatar

Good question! I looked up the poverty line in LA specifically. And here are the results:

Persons in Family Household - ​Poverty Guideline (annually): 1 person - $​14,580 / 2 persons - $19,720 / 3 persons - $24,860

This is a very quick look for an answer. I don’t fully understand the results.

The long and short of it is $25,000/year is over the poverty line for a single person household but barely over the poverty line for a 2 person household. It is the poverty line for a household of 3 or more people.

It is unclear how this factors in housing, and if it includes owning property and renting. A 3 person household is generally considered to be two adults and a child or dependant. Livable, depends on what you considered livable. If owning a house and starting a family is part of having a libable life, I would say they are probably not earning a livable wage.

Source: Californial Department of Public Health https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID/DOA/Pages/OA_ADAP_Federal_Poverty_Guideline_Chart.aspx

Edit formatting

potoo22 ,

That chart looks like it uses the federal poverty line. A sweeping guideline to cover all of the US.

Wenchette ,
@Wenchette@lemmy.ml avatar

Not even close

Nihilistic_Mystics ,

“Low income”, as defined by the state, is anything below $70,650 in Los Angeles county.

WarmSoda ,

I imagine that’s poverty in any state

Rainmanslim ,

Let Hollywood burn.

vimdiesel ,

meh

lemmie689 ,
@lemmie689@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Burn Hollywood burn, taking down Tinseltown

Burn Hollywood burn, burn down to the ground

m.youtube.com/watch?v=h

PipedLinkBot ,

Here is an alternative Piped link(s): piped.video/watch?v=h

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.

SQL_InjectMe ,

Personally I think actors and writers are overpaid, but I support their right to strike. I also support the studios avoiding the strike by avoiding all SAG actors and other guilds because like I don’t think they’re that much better than non-union members

Lenins2ndCat OP ,
@Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world avatar

One of the main features of this strike is the companies are trying to get extras to sign away their likenesses. The companies then intend to use their likenesses “for eternity and in every universe” (the actual wording) as computer generated images to abolish their jobs entirely. Actors are not particularly happy about the attempt to get them to do work that will abolish their own existence, and the higher paid actors see it as inevitable that this expands to include them to if they don’t fight it now.

There is nobody avoiding the strike at this point. Everything has ground to a halt. If anything starts again the guilds for crews, camera operators etc are planning to join.

SQL_InjectMe ,

I do agree that it’s bullshit to pressure actors into signing away their likeness and knew this was a main feature, but SAG is joining the wave that WAG started and I don’t support increasing their residuals. WAG and SAG are basically the cool kids club of landed gentry. I believe people should be able to form unions to pursue self interests, but that doesn’t mean I blindly support every union strike.

Regarding union strikes, I personally don’t get why sanitation workers don’t strike to get a lot more money, they certainly deserve it.

Lenins2ndCat OP ,
@Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world avatar

Regarding union strikes, I personally don’t get why sanitation workers don’t strike to get a lot more money, they certainly deserve it.

Mostly caused by a lack of radical leadership. You tend to find the unions getting shit done have reds running them, often from groups like the IWW or other entryist parties or salters (Chris Smalls amazon union are leninists and it took an absolutely massive salting effort to achieve), doing work in this space is extremely difficult because entrenched liberals are do-nothings and shifting them out of leaderships is not simple as reaching workers and convincing them that the leadership is trash is a lot of long and very hard effort that often requires salting the workplace as well.

So tldr it’s about getting the people that want to stir shit up into those leadership positions and those people aren’t liberals.

jcg ,

What does salter mean in this context?

Lenins2ndCat OP ,
@Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world avatar

Salting is where many people join a company specifically with the goal of organising it and forming unions.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salting_(union_organizing)

These people will then work as organised cells within companies to spread propaganda and shift the rest of the workers towards a position that will result in an eventual successful union vote.

dudebro ,

That sounds nice. If we can replace labor with robots, then these actors can do something else useful for society.

Or they can continue to act if they really want to. They just won’t be making as much money, and that’s fine by me.

Lenins2ndCat OP ,
@Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world avatar

You’re talking about ruining the lives of tens of thousands of people with families and children, have some fucking empathy you psychopath.

DogMuffins ,

I think this is a little hyperbolic?

The vast majority of those actors have other careers.

“Ruining lives” probably isn’t accurate.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

The executives certainly want lives ruined.

dudebro ,

No, I’m not lol.

Calm down. Your emotions are controlling your argument.

These actors will do just fine if they can never act again. They’d just have to get a regular job like anyone else.

They’ll still be living a higher quality of life while working less than the vast majority of people on the planet.

You’re just mad that someone says we shouldn’t be passing a bunch of money around at the top. I suggest you brush up on the definitions of ‘want’ and ‘need’ because you call me a sociopath.

They don’t need more money. They want it, plain and simple.

I don’t care for people who want more money. Because they get it, others who need it don’t.

Snekeyes ,

People who need more money don’t ask for it. And those that don’t do. Sounds like a totally fabricated answer.

dudebro ,

What? I think you’re just saying things, lol.

Snekeyes ,

People who need more money don’t ask for it. And those that don’t do. Sounds like a totally fabricated answer.

Snekeyes ,

People who need more money don’t ask for it. And those that don’t do. Sounds like a totally fabricated answer.

Snekeyes ,

People who need more money don’t ask for it. And those that don’t do. Sounds like a totally fabricated answer.

CeruleanRuin , (edited )

Man, this comment is naive as hell. I’m disappointed to see so much anti-labor sentiment here. But what else should I expect from that username.

PsiOc ,

It’s really only one dude spamming every comment with replies lol

dudebro ,

What do you mean? I’m not anti-labor. I’m pro-progress.

Do you also think people shouldn’t be allowed to pump their own gas so someone else has a job?

kmkz_ninja ,

You’re an insufferable asshole and you will never understand why people see you that way.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

You need to remember that this isn’t just about people at the top. Day players get $1000 a day for what can be a 20-hour day for a two-week shoot and then get nothing for a few months. They barely qualify for health insurance, which is often the reason they do it. They are, if anything underpaid.

Yes, there are extremely wealthy SAG-AFTRA members. There are also SAG-AFTRA members living in one-bedroom apartments.

Niggling_Niggard ,

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    dudebro ,

    They still get paid more and work less than the vast majority of people ever to walk to Earth.

    I have no sympathy for people in one of the most expensive cities in existence complaining about more money. They need to spend less, not make more.

    This is why we never solve things like world hunger; we’re too busy passing a bunch of money around at the top.

    Niggling_Niggard ,

    Except those on strike aren’t at the top. Go after the studio execs and owners to find the money.

    dudebro ,

    Globally speaking, yes they are.

    Anyone who has above average wealth doesn’t deserve more so long as children are starving.

    They get no sympathy from me.

    kmkz_ninja ,

    He says, with his above average wealth.

    cantstopthesignal ,

    They get paid more than people in poor countries, but they don’t live in a poor country. Their wage may be 10x higher but so is their cost of living. So they are still fucking broke.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Don’t bother. This guy basically believes that if you aren’t living in a mud hut in Africa, you have no right to complain about anything.

    CeruleanRuin ,

    He’s all over this thread and his opinions are the worst.

    dudebro ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    fidodo ,

    The super famous ones do but for every one of them there are thousands of poorly paid ones. What the studios are doing would remove the possibility of even becoming well paid in the future. These strikes are about helping the people not at the top, and about protecting their upward mobility.

    Ultraviolet ,

    The median income of SAG-AFTRA members is under $26K a year. A tiny, tiny percentage of actors are what you would call rich or even well off. Most have a second job and still struggle to pay rent.

    DJVIIIMan ,

    It’s not like they were producing anything new or original anyway. I’m not entirely sure I care.

    phillycodehound ,
    @phillycodehound@lemmy.world avatar

    Good to see actors, many whom get just the base for their work, stand up for what they deserve.

    recursivesive ,

    While I agree that the compensation has been way too low for the working class, I fucking hate how this is used as an excuse when it hits certain group. “what are we waiting for?” as if the real working class (employees of supermarkets, fast food chains, gas stations, etc) haven’t being fucked in the ass for a long time. But now it “hurts me, let’s have solidarity”. No sympathy for them. Eat shit.

    Lenins2ndCat OP ,
    @Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world avatar

    How exactly is attacking other workers going to help workers?

    dudebro ,

    Because actors already make way more money on average for a much easier job than most people on the planet.

    Children in Burundi deserve more before the people in Hollywood.

    kmkz_ninja ,

    Children in Burundi should have been born in a country with a high cost of living.

    almar_quigley ,

    lol, wut? How much do you think the average actor makes? Not everyone is Adam Driver……

    dudebro ,

    More than most people on the planet while doing a much easier job.

    kmkz_ninja ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    dudebro ,

    No need for the personal attacks.

    Let’s try and stay civil.

    DragonAce ,

    These big name actors are fighting for the people that are part of SAG that are extras or do stunts who make jack shit from most productions. These people are fighting for members of their union, this has nothing to do with anything else.

    jhymesba ,

    Excellent comment. I’m just going to add some numbers ans a source to it.

    If you’re in the United States and are working as an actor, your income is closer to Minimum Wage than to the big names in the entertainment industry, with wages (not salaries, these people are paid by the hour) ranging from $7.75 up to $36.00, averaging at $15.29. We talk about the big names, but these are the people really being hit. Hollywood execs don’t even want to pay these wages. They’d rather give you a month of wages in order to have access to your voice and face for all time. This is even worse when you factor in that your image might get big…imagine being a fresh face right out of acting college, going in for your first audition, and they say “We like you. We’ll give you $3000 if you just enter our scanning booth and spend an hour saying nonsense lines.” That pays your first month’s rent (barely), but lo and behold, down the road, your likeness is earning the studio execs a cool billion, and you ain’t getting a penny of that, because you signed a contract saying your likeness and voice could be used by them at no compensation for you for all time.

    THAT is a big part of what this strike is about.

    www.indeed.com/career/actor/salaries

    rustyfish ,
    @rustyfish@lemmy.world avatar

    What a shit take. Seriously, how is this bad for others? Trying to delegitimise these peoples work shows me you have no idea what you talking about. Do you understand what a class war is?

    You know what? I refuse to believe someone can be this dense. I took the bait, my bad. Troll.

    dudebro ,

    We’re just passing a bunch of money around at the top.

    kmkz_ninja ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    dudebro ,

    Yeah, I’m gonna block you.

    You’re clearly too angry to have a conversation about this in a civil manner. Maybe you should think about why you’re angry before taking it out on me.

    Have a nice day.

    GentlemanLoser ,

    Lots of people in this thread think this is about A list actors only apparently

    dudebro ,

    Yeah. It’s only a problem when rich people aren’t making enough money.

    kmkz_ninja ,

    Your slip is showing.

    lohrun ,
    @lohrun@fediverse.boo avatar

    as if the real working class (employees of supermarkets, fast food chains, gas stations, etc)

    White collar and blue collar workers are also part of the real working class. The bottom like 95% of earners are. We need to stop labeling ourselves as different groups and start working together. Doesn’t matter the type of job you have, more than likely you are being severely underpaid and under appreciated.

    GentlemanLoser ,

    Yeah man I don’t have beef with individual millionaires. It’s possible to become a millionaire without stepping on some necks. Billionaire, not so much.

    csolisr ,

    On one hand, Hollywood is abusive both economically and ethically. On the other hand, I despise copyright-based industries and the workers that uphold them. I can’t bring myself to support anyone in this conflict.

    Lenins2ndCat OP ,
    @Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world avatar

    Workers don’t exactly get a choice about property laws mate. Workers do not own private property.

    Sev ,
    @Sev@feddit.uk avatar

    Don’t really follow this much, what’s the TL:DR with all this? Something something more pay? Good on em , i think?

    psycho_driver ,

    I’m not following it much either so take what I’m saying with a grain of salt but I believe it’s a combination of the actors deciding to support the ongoing writer’s strike, in addition to having some of the same concerns as the writers with regard to their rights in a changing digital landscape (see the somewhat overblown AI craze currently in progress).

    littlecolt ,

    Just like when reruns first became a thing, the actors are striking to be paid for the use of their likeness and their performances. With TV reruns becoming less popular, yet people are rewatching old favorites on streaming, the actors rightly want to be paid for streaming rewatches. That is one of the biggest things. Streaming platforms are making big money from hosting old shows, and the actors want their cut.

    dudebro ,

    Rich people upset they can’t keep up with other rich people.

    Nothing to see here. They’re just trying to live as lavish a life as possible while doing as little actual work as possible. Yes, I’m talking about the actors.

    It’s not about needs. It’s about wants. Greedy people and their supporters get upset whenever someone points out the difference.

    jhymesba , (edited )

    Sure. The leading actors in a production are crazy rich. But according to indeed.com, the average actor earns between $7.25 and $36.00 an hour, averaging at $15.29. For every lead, you’ve got countless little people backing them up. Strikes aren’t just about the crazy wealthy leading actors. It’s also about the dude pulling in $15 an hour. In fact, the leads aren’t going to license their likeness and voices to the studio execs, so they really have nothing to worry about. But they’re here standing in solidarity with the people who don’t have that luxury, who will go in, get a $3000 cheque, then never work in the industry again.

    Just to be clear, you’re busy simping for the billionaires who run the media industry, pointing to the millionaires who are saying they are being nasty to everyone in industry. Says a lot about you, buddy!

    dudebro ,

    Just to be clear, I’m not in favor of anyone with above average wealth having more so long as children go without food and water.

    I’m not in favor of the actors or the owners. Copyright and patent laws need to die so none of them get to live lavish lifestyles at the expense of everyone else.

    jhymesba ,

    I don’t believe for a second that you actually believe this. I think you’re just a concern troll trying to hide behind the inequity that allows kids to go without food and water while pushing the false narrative that every actor earns millions of dollars a year and thus doesn’t “deserve” to strike. If you really are concerned about kids, then perhaps stand in solidarity of the hundreds of thousands of people NOT earning seven figures so THEIR kids may be guaranteed food and water, and pressure the folks who ARE earning seven figures to show a little charity for the kids you’re so concerned about.

    dudebro ,

    Ok. Believe whatever you want.

    You’re wrong in this case.

    I personally believe you’re just upset at someone calling out the disparity and wealth and those who contribute to it.

    kmkz_ninja ,

    I think you’re probably a bit of a hypocrite.

    vimdiesel ,

    bro, like 75% of actors have 2 other jobs they’re working to keep a roof over their head lmao, no including all the electricans, makeup, set builders, CGI, etc that work on movies. You should educate yourself. Only 0.1% of them are living like kings, and most of those are nepo-babies with connections to land the big roles.

    MargotRobbie ,
    @MargotRobbie@lemmy.world avatar

    If you still have the bird app or some other method, send your support of solidarity to your favorite actors. They will definitely appreciate it.

    topinambour_rex ,
    @topinambour_rex@lemmy.world avatar

    What about my favorite studios ?

    MargotRobbie ,
    @MargotRobbie@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m… not sure?

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Fuck the studios. Go union!

    wtvr ,

    Oh hi barbie

    MargotRobbie ,
    @MargotRobbie@lemmy.world avatar

    Hi there! Sorry, no movie promotions, I’m on strike.

    TendieMaster69 ,

    Funny meme, nice AI generated profile picture.

    MargotRobbie ,
    @MargotRobbie@lemmy.world avatar

    If they ever find out about this account I can just deny everything, it’s great, right?

    dudebro ,

    Glad you guys are fighting so hard to make more money while children go without food and water.

    History really does repeat itself and that’s why these problems never get solved.

    Snekeyes ,

    Well you can’t solve em for sure. All you are is hot air.

    dudebro ,

    Ok.

    MargotRobbie ,
    @MargotRobbie@lemmy.world avatar

    I don’t know what you’re talking about, I’m on strike.

    dudebro ,

    Good thing you have the excess to be able to strike!

    MargotRobbie ,
    @MargotRobbie@lemmy.world avatar

    Despair is the enemy of progress.

    If you insist on being so cynical and hateful that you reject people who are trying to improve society somewhat, then I think you should leave.

    dudebro ,

    No, I’m not being cynical.

    I’m arguing in favor of reducing the disparity in wealth. You’re arguing in favor of exacerbating it.

    This is why history continues to repeat itself.

    kmkz_ninja ,

    So between actors and giant movie studios, you definitely prefer the giant movie studio makes more money while the human beings make less?

    Clown_Tempura ,

    Wow it’s almost like people’s tolerance for ruthless exploitation isn’t infinite. Hollywood’s disgusting parasitic grifters can get fucked.

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