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hperrin ,

I think a more alarming stat is that, due to inflation, minimum wage workers have received a pay cut every year for the last fourteen years.

bruhrrito ,

Was going to ask, did op include inflation?

Orionza ,
@Orionza@lemmy.world avatar

In California, fast food workers wages will go up to $20 an hour we found today. That’s more than some college educated people make. Something is wrong here.

hperrin ,

If you’re only making $20/hour after a college education, your college education is a broken promise.

JossyBop ,

This is the correct take. Unfortunately, there seems to be an overwhelming sense of “fuck you, I got mine” amongst a lot of people meaning they’d rather kick other people down than get pushed up.

Holyginz ,

Your right. Wages should be going up across the board, not just for fast food workers.

BeautifulMind ,
@BeautifulMind@lemmy.world avatar

If you do the comparisons in normalized dollars and compare to productivity, minimum wage (if it tracked to the same purchasing power as it did in the 1950s) would be somewhere around $26 in today’s dollars. If you do the same but track to inflation, it would be about $22.

When the wage doesn’t keep track to inflation, it’s not ‘increasing’, it’s a pay cut. When it doesn’t track to productivity, it’s a pay cut out of labor’s part of any growth.

When workers earning suppressed wages compete to buy things like housing, they’re bidding against the class of people that received the share of productivity they didn’t- and when the folks making more bid up prices of those things, it’s a double-whammy of foregone wage + increased cost-of-living.

aidan ,

Do you have a source on that nationally? Because that is very very high in many areas.

BeautifulMind , (edited )
@BeautifulMind@lemmy.world avatar

Well,

These sources disagree among themselves if the right number is $21.45 or $26 or $20, they seem to base their analysis on productivity or inflation

Yeah, these numbers sound like a lot in some places, but those places where it ‘sounds like a lot’ tend to be really fucking poorer than necessary. It would hurt them not at all to have the minimum keep up with where it was in 1968 instead of being the output of both major parties in congress agreeing to fuck the working poor

aidan ,

Oh I see my confusion now I thought you were saying PPP against inflation, rather than PPP against productivity. But my point about nationally is that PPP differs based on area a lot, especially in housing. I don’t think comparing to productivity is fair because a lot of the money going to labor from US companies is going to offshoring or into automating jobs away.

PmMeFrogMemes ,

I agree it needs to be raised but that’s a terrible and misleading way to present the data.

Sadbutdru ,

I strongly agree with this comment.

You could as easily say it’s increased by 2800% (correct me if I’m wrong) since then, which sends the opposite message, but neither are good ways of showing what’s really going on…

yournamehere ,

bUt fReE mArKeT gOod

aidan ,

But that has nothing to do with free market because minimum wage is set by the government?

greavous ,

Minimum wage is required because companies operating in the free market don’t pay many people enough to survive. So minimum wage is absolutely related to the free market.

aidan ,

Except less than 1% of people in the US earn minimum wage

InternetTubes ,

The development of cheaper manufacturing methods has been hiding the decline for quite some time now.

Michal ,

Only? That’s 29x more. Needs context.

Jimmyeatsausage ,

This kind of context?

$1 in 1938 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $21.77 today, an increase of $20.77 over 85 years. The dollar had an average inflation rate of 3.69% per year between 1938 and today, producing a cumulative price increase of 2,077.49%.

Minimum wage workers today have less purchasing power than they did in the Great Depression

Awesome357 ,

If $1 then is now equivalent to $21.77, then that $0.25 minimum wage then would today only be $5.44 (25% of $21.77). $7.25 represents 133% more purchasing power.

marito ,

The fuck kinda dollar store math are you doing?

H1jAcK ,

97¢ store, you did the math wrong

AdolfSchmitler ,

The math checks out what are you looking at?

rish ,
@rish@lemmy.ml avatar

Their math is correct. What is wrong is that prices increases have little to do with inflation. IMO inflation is happening because of the rabid greedy capitalism. Prices are moving only in upward direction.

wesley ,

He is actually correct. The math does check out.

The minimum wage in 1938 was worth about $5.44 in today’s money. The peak minimum wage adjusted for inflation was in 1968 which would have been worth $13.46 in today’s money

…wikipedia.org/…/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_State…

Rehwyn , (edited )

Why are you comparing $1 to $0.25? This is an incorrect way to compare relative purchasing power.

As already pointed out, if $1 in 1938 is equivalent to $21.77 today, then $0.25 in 1938 is equivalent to $5.44 today ($21.76 / 4). Since minimum wage is $7.25, they are earning more per hour now after adjusting for inflation.

Another way to think about it is if someone wanted to buy something for $1 in 1938, they’d need 4 hours of minimum wage work ($1 / $0.25 = 4 hrs). That same $1 expense would be $21.77 today, or $21.77/7.25 = 3.0 hours of minimum wage work.

This isn’t necessarily justification that the minimum wage isn’t in need of an increase today, by the way. I personally think it needs an increase (among other work reforms) and is a decent argument that minimum wage in the US has been too low since it’s inception. But it has increased since 1938 after adjusting for inflation.

Michal ,

I meant to say 7$ doesn’t mean much. It’s like saying company share price went up by 7$, that’s why stock market changes are expressed in % not in $.

Jimmyeatsausage ,

I think some of you are conflating inflation and price increases. Inflation is the decrease in the value of money. Price increases are increases in the cost of commodities. I know that sounds a little pedantic, but while inflation can cause price increases, so can other things (things like taxes or monopolies). If the cost of living were locked to inflation, then yes, you’d see a 33% increase in the value of minimum wage. As an example, a 2 bedroom house was around $3900 in 1938. If you made minimum wage, then a house costs about 4 years’ worth of labor. It’s harder to get stats like that today because it varies so much by region… but I live in a pretty low cost-of-living state, and the median cost of a 2 bedroom house here is around $240k. Minimum wage today will earn you about $15k annually, meaning a house now costs 16 years’ worth of labor.

HeyThisIsntTheYMCA ,
@HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world avatar

And you ungrateful shits keep clamoring for more

sebinspace ,

Who gave a walking prolapsed anus internet access?

HeyThisIsntTheYMCA ,
@HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world avatar

Look all you gotta do is grab a warm, moist towel and shove it back up there

Ask me how I know

Gestrid ,

It should be noted that this is the federal minimum wage. Many states set a higher minimum wage than that. For example, California’s minimum wage will be $16/hr starting January 1st, Virginia is $12/hr, and New York is $14.20/hr.

PhlubbaDubba ,

California’s is actually even weirder, because they recently passed legislation that raises the minimum wage but specifically on franchised businesses

v_krishna ,
@v_krishna@lemmy.ml avatar

Berkeley’s minimum wage is $18.07

queue ,
@queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I think that got held up in lobbyists appealing to the court.

owatnext ,
@owatnext@lemmy.world avatar

Pennsylvania is $7.25 lol.

NarrativeBear ,

Meanwhile in Canada minimum wage is at $16.55 starting Oct 1st.

Though I don’t understand how the tipping culter is essential the same between the US and Canada

rhandyrhoads ,

To be fair that’s like 12 USD which would still require tipping. Also not sure if Canada has the same minimum wage exception for tip workers where they’re allowed to be paid significantly less than minimum wage so long as tips make up the difference. In the US it’s very typical for tip workers to only be paid 2-3 dollars an hour.

dankm ,

Going up to $14.00 on 1 October in Saskatchewan. Like the USA we have different labour laws in each province. We also get 3 weeks vacation to start, unlike the 2 weeks BC and Ontario get.

YurkshireLad ,

Minimum wage is simply the lowest full time salary a company can legally get away with paying. Nothing more, nothing less.

I’m primarily talking about large corporations that make millions and billions, yet claim they can’t afford to pay more than minimum wage.

ubermeisters ,
@ubermeisters@lemmy.world avatar

You dont get rich by spending money

Or something to that effect

novibe ,

You don’t get rich without exploiting the labour of others*

foksmash ,

Can you name one? I don’t know a single person who actually makes minimum wage. Legit question.

Cryophilia ,

Just means you’re not poor. I know loads, and they’re all in the poorest part of the country.

Dollar General, McDonald’s, Krogers, 7-11 just to name a few that you’d recognize. Used to be Walmart but they upped pay a couple of years ago.

SamHandwich ,

yup, I made minimum wage at a Krogers back in 2010 and the folks working there now are making the same $7.25 I was back then.

foksmash ,

Maybe it’s a regional thing then, those types of jobs in my area all earn more than the federal minimum wage and even the stage minimum which is $15/hr now.

That said, aside from DG, those other companies are franchise operations. Still, thank you for honestly answering and not just resorting to name calling.

Cryophilia ,

Well I mean of course. Wages are lower in low cost of living areas. In the poorest areas, wages are lowest

foksmash ,

Understandable, I was mainly curious about the “large corporations” but it seems there are a few good examples provided. Thanks!

Cryophilia ,

Np

darksouls ,

I’m kind of shocked at this, you must be really wealthy and/or out of touch. I make minimum wage at my current job which is 13.65 an hour in the state of Colorado. I make less now than I ever have before at any other job and I spent thousands on a technical degree. Many people all over the country only make minimum wage. Bartenders and jobs like that come to mind, they are often paid $2 or less an hour with “tips” that add up to minimum wage.

foksmash ,

Not wealthy nor in a wealthy area but I live in a pretty densely populated state so I just don’t see it. Even convenience store jobs pay $18-20/hr here.

I’ve been working since 14 and that may have been the only year I made the minimum wage too. I don’t generally look at this sort of data so thank you for sharing your anecdotes!

tocopherol ,
@tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I no longer work there but in the last year I worked for a “leading global source for education materials” according to Forbes, worth 2.8 billion and I was paid minimum wage as a retail employee.

foksmash ,

Yikes, hope things are better now! Thanks for sharing!

paddirn ,

I’ve worked for a number of different companies since I was a teenager and first got a job. Without a doubt, the cheapest motherfuckers on the planet with the most squalid working conditions are the biggest companies I’ve worked for. I think part of the key to being a top corporation is being stingy as fuck.

RichardB ,

Saving $50 per employee when you have 5 employees is $250. It’s nice, but not a game changer. 50 employees: $2,500, 500 employees: $25,000. When you have more employees squeezing pennies out of your workers becomes a relevant boon to the company.

aidan ,

Weirdly that’s been the opposite of my experience, got paid a lot(in local terms) for doing barely anything in an internship. Paid not well for a small business where I knew the owners, but I know why, which is that they basically recruited people who wouldn’t bother negotiating.

yoz ,

Why do people even live in the US?

FireTower ,
@FireTower@lemmy.world avatar

It’s a pretty nice country, it’s got a little bit of everything. It has flaws, and as Americans we complain about them and try to get them fixed to constantly improve it.

I think a lot of the images of America being so bad comes from our overwhelming volume online.

ILikeBoobies ,

Canada thought you were shit long before the internet

It’s a big reason for our historical loyalty to the crown

darksouls ,

as if nationalism for the crown & the city is something to be proud of… how embarrassing

ILikeBoobies ,

Proud of?

I was saying it exists just because it is believed to make us less American

FireTower ,
@FireTower@lemmy.world avatar

As an American I have a positive image of Canada, they’re the closest thing we have to a sibling in my mind. And if the providences ever wanted state hood I’d support them joining, but I’m sure a lot of Canadians would take exception to that.

ILikeBoobies ,

Our state is Canada, if we were to join then it would be one state

Just like how your states joined, the German states joined together to form Germany, and the European states joined the EU

BigNote ,

Also most of the loyalists in the colonies fled to Canada during and immediately after the American Revolution, for obvious reasons.

ahriboy ,

The immigration system is kinda broken that some people had to emigrate to Canada instead.

dontcarebear ,

Quite frankly, when American self-criticism will die out - THAT’S when I l’ll start worrying. Criticism is a healthy sign of freedom of speech and pluralism.

FireTower ,
@FireTower@lemmy.world avatar

I really like the choice of “more perfect union” in the preamble because it does really reinforce that we will always have flaws. To me, it reminds us of our flaws, not to deride us but so that we might seek to improve upon them and never rest on our own laurels.

Criticizing your country because you wish for it to improve is amung the most patriotic things a person can do.

vivavideri ,

They don’t make it easy to get out.

snausagesinablanket ,
@snausagesinablanket@lemmy.world avatar

I can save enough to leave!

cjthomp ,

You write that as if moving to a new country is just that easy.

If you’re in Europe and have never visited, you might be surprised at just how huge the US is. That, plus having only two adjacent countries, makes leaving very difficult.

Oh yeah, plus you have to get into another country, most of which aren’t super welcoming to immigrants, either.

viking ,
@viking@infosec.pub avatar

You can leave to any country that’s not adjacent to the US. I’m really not getting what point you’re trying to make with that statement?

The rest is still valid, but this part is a bit of a moot point. Most countries are welcoming of sufficiently skilled immigrants as well - though the US education system with its ridiculous pricing might be a deterrent here.

Cryophilia ,

Practically no one making minimum wage is “sufficiently skilled” lol what a load of ridiculous privilege rofl

“Just move to Europe” is like “just get a loan from your parents” level of out of touch

plz1 ,

“Let them eat cake”

viking ,
@viking@infosec.pub avatar

Where exactly did I say Europe? Plenty of well paying jobs elsewhere. Lived in both Africa and Asia (still there, actually) for 2 decades and the money you can make there beats Europe by a wide margin. Educational requirements are low to nonexistent, depending on the region.

Cryophilia ,

And you managed to get even MORE out of touch.

You can earn more money in Africa as an unskilled laborer than Europe? What a ridiculous statement.

viking ,
@viking@infosec.pub avatar

Minimum wage =/= unskilled. Plenty of educated people struggle to find employment and might be better off elsewhere.

Cryophilia ,

No, but minimum wage ≈ unskilled

darksouls ,

You have to have a bachelors degree to even be considered for citizenship in many countries. South Korea for example

viking ,
@viking@infosec.pub avatar

Why bother with citizenship? Work permit is all that’s needed.

HeyThisIsntTheYMCA ,
@HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world avatar

Very few skills are sufficient to make up for being disabled

viking ,
@viking@infosec.pub avatar

Which sucks, agree. Though I thought this thread was about regularly abled people, or did I miss something?

jdaxe ,

Their instance implies they’re Australian which is similar in size to the US, and also further away from most other countries.

You are right that it’s difficult for many people to move country though.

sour , (edited )
@sour@kbin.social avatar

because am born in the u.s.

SendMePhotos ,

Difficult to escape.

cedarmesa , (edited )
@cedarmesa@lemmy.world avatar

💀

HeyThisIsntTheYMCA ,
@HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world avatar

It’s where I keep the bodies

dontcarebear ,

In my country it is 7.49$ and raised by only 1.77$ in the last 10 years.

It’s not just the US.

yoz ,

Which country bro?

dontcarebear ,

Israel. We are more socialist than the US ( public healthcare, unemployment support etc.) But we are definitely Capitalist and our minimum wage can barely cover utilities, health and food. Not going to talk about housing, because that shit is just globally fucked.

Cihta ,
@Cihta@lemmy.world avatar

Stuck… who would want us? Every country I’d like to live in would require me to be very rich or have a usable skill set. While I have the latter it also needs to be provable which is difficult.

I should have bolted when I was younger but i just didn’t have the knowledge.

pyromaster55 ,

Also remember the student loan crisis in the US, so going to a college, university, or trade school is simply not a viable option for many of the most vulnerable and neediest of folks in the US, especially when they are already working during HS to help support their family.

The working classes in the USA really do have the deck actively stacked against them, and something needs to change or we as a nation are completely fucked.

IHaveTwoCows ,

But no arming up and fighting back against legislators because that would be mean. You may protest peacefully in the designated area during the hours allotted with a permit.

Cihta ,
@Cihta@lemmy.world avatar

I think it’s far worse than you make it sound. When I entered the workforce (while also paying to go to a trade school that was a scam) min wage was $6. While I was able to rise through the ranks pretty fast it was a long time of scraping by just to eat and pay bills so i could keep working.

Nearly 30 years later federal minimum wage is $1.25 more than were i started. Adjusted for inflation that’s impossible to live on, I didn’t have it easy by any means but at least I could survive. I’d never have had a chance with things as they are now. I feel bad for the youth of this country that don’t happen to have the right hookups and connections or, sometimes, luck.

30mag ,

I don’t know about other people, but I wasn’t asked where I would like to be born.

sebinspace ,

Two people decided to fuck in 1991.

Wasn’t my idea.

BigNote ,

Well obviously it’s very difficult for the poor to leave and if you aren’t poor it’s actually a pretty nice place to live.

InternetGasHuffer ,

The minimum wage has always been and always will be zero.

cedarmesa , (edited )
@cedarmesa@lemmy.world avatar

💀

10EXP ,
@10EXP@sh.itjust.works avatar

Obligatory GTA 5 “This is 7 dollars” meme

Pottsunami ,

There are lies, damn lies, and then there’s statistics.

Im not here to say the minimum wage doesnt need to be raised, because it does, but another way of putting that is

“The minimim wage has increased 1500% in 85 years.”

That sounds a lot better even though its the same thing.

WHYAREWEALLCAPS ,

Meanwhile the cost of living has increased 2077% in 85 years.

Loid ,

CYBERPUNK REFERENCE??!??!

Snipe_AT ,
@Snipe_AT@lemmy.atay.dev avatar

deleted_by_author

    •
    orrk ,

    that actually makes it worse because housework still needs to be done.

    drbi ,

    Thanks for making me chuckle.

    Brickhead92 ,

    Wow! That’s almost as much as a CEO increases in 3 months!

    Snipe_AT ,
    @Snipe_AT@lemmy.atay.dev avatar

    deleted_by_author

    •
    Not_Alec_Baldwin ,

    7.25 / 0.25 is indeed 29, therefore a 2800% increase is correct.

    Thus, another dishonest way of stating this number is that it has increased almost 33% for each year since it was first implemented. (Not per year)

    IHaveTwoCows ,

    If it isnt tied to inflation then it is meaningless.

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