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Chakravanti ,

Duh, it’s stupid. Bitcoin is the snitchcoin. Broadcasts all details of all transactions, everywhere, always, forever.

Monero.

Emmie , (edited )

You have to do some mild gymnastics to buy monero here but yes this is what I use for sensitive transactions too.
It’s weird because theoretically there is some kind of law that makes it harder to buy it but there are services that let you do it anyway so I am guessing it’s a cat and mouse game.

Emoji of a currency used for shady shit is the last thing it needs tho lol, it would be kinda like private tracker putting ad on YouTube or smh

Chakravanti ,

Right now, sure, it’s just know the guy for it. Or swap bitcoin for it on bisq.network

Chakravanti ,

Also your business is none of mine. I have no concerns and you haven’t of mine, thank you very much.

Emmie , (edited )

Biz is biz

No but if I’d be doing anything other than piracy I wouldn’t be typing things I am typing even

I am autistically obsessed with niche underground internet things. though that one isn’t really one of them I guess

Chakravanti ,

Yeah, because typing about wisdom isn’t viable, huh?

Emerald ,

Emoji of a currency used for shady shit is the last thing it needs tho lol

I agree. 💲💸💵💴💶💷💳💰 should all be removed from Unicode as those currencies are used for shady shit. /s

Emmie ,

Touché

explodicle ,

Bitcoin Lightning fixes this. Monero built its first layer with this assumption, and now it’s impossible to check if there has been an inflation bug like the Value Overflow Incident.

When (not if) there’s an inflation bug, the attacker will be able to sell his free XMR indefinitely.

Chakravanti ,

No. It doesn’t change any of that. It’s still trackable %100

explodicle ,

Lightning payments are onion routed, like Tor traffic.

Chakravanti ,

Still not close to the same. That’s borrowed functions on one chain. Monero is triple encrypted. You crack one and you got no time left before the next chain flips the whole shebang.

zalgotext ,

Monero is triple encrypted. You crack one and you got no time left before the next chain flips the whole shebang.

If monero is using sane, modern encryption algorithms, “triple encryption” doesn’t really get you meaningfully more security.

It already takes an insane amount of time to brute force good encryption algorithms, so if people are cracking your encryption, they’re doing it via some vulnerability/flaw/exploit in the algorithm which allows then to crack things much faster than brute forcing. If you use the same encryption algorithm for all three layers, you just have to exploit it three times instead of one, which isn’t really adding any difficulty to a competent attacker.

What if you use three different encryption algorithms, you may ask? Well, that’s even worse because you’ve now tripled the attack surface of your encryption scheme.

Chakravanti ,

That’s not at all addressing a single thing over what goes on in Monero. You either get it or you don’t and you just don’t. Go read more, yacky.

zalgotext ,

If you’ve got some articles handy, feel free to link them. My searches aren’t finding anything about Monero’s “triple encryption”.

Chakravanti ,

www.getmonero.org/resources/moneropedia/

zalgotext ,

Nothing on that site mentions “triple encryption”. Can you clarify what you meant by that?

Chakravanti ,

No. Educate yourself on how Monero works. All I’m saying is that it’s the safest. You want to understand complicated shit then go figure it out. I ain’t here to teach how shit works when the Moneropedia does it all already.

The short is that there are three factors. Each of which are separately encrypted and handle separate parts of the Monero. You have to crack all three to know about any particular exchange. They’re not on top of each other they way you infer.

zalgotext ,

Thanks, could have just clarified that from the beginning.

It’s not my fault you used a well-known cryptography term incorrectly.

Chakravanti ,

Keep trying. Technically i am correct. Just in a totally different sense of such.

zalgotext ,

Whatever makes you feel better man

Chakravanti ,

Like downvotes you throw around like you actually someone of any meaning.

zalgotext ,

I’m not down voting you dude. Not that down votes matter

explodicle ,

It’s not close to the same thing, but definitely not trackable 100%, and comparable levels of privacy. Having less elegant code doesn’t change that. If you’d like, we can perform a test in which I make a lightning payment and you track it.

I don’t think it’s likely that an attacker can crack even your first layer of encryption in the time it takes for a transaction to propagate and settle.

Chakravanti ,

You don’t get it and i ain’t here to explain what there already exists well made such for understanding.

explodicle ,

I don’t even get that sentence!

Chakravanti ,

And I ain’t an English teacher

Emmie ,

They earn fucking shit

Chakravanti ,

Money is evil.

alienanimals ,

Don’t buy Bitcoin. It’s going to crash!

AnAmericanPotato ,

This will likely be rejected for one the same reasons that they decided they would not add any new flag emojis. Flags come and go. Bitcoin hasn’t even been around for 20 years yet, and its future is highly uncertain.

Also, considered as a currency, it would be better as a regular text character, not an emoji. Like $, €, ¥, £, etc.

echodot ,

I actually don’t mind it being added as a text character because then I can actually use it. Using it as an emoji is useless to everyone other than the crypto bros that want to spam it on Twitter.

SloganLessons ,

It already exists: ₿

friend_of_satan ,

Where are you unable to use emojis?

AnAmericanPotato ,

I don’t know about strictly “unable” but there are a million contexts where it is a bad idea and simply not done. Like a spreadsheet or financial document. Or anywhere you want your text to behave like text — with a consistent font, color, style, etc. The difference between $ (text) and 💲 (emoji) is pretty stark in most contexts.

ulterno ,
@ulterno@lemmy.kde.social avatar

For example, on the dark background of the UI I am viewing your comment on, The $ symbol is in white colour (as the font has been set).

But the emoji is dark grey, and wouldn’t be visible if I had a cheap, low contrast monitor.

Trev625 ,

For me it looks like this:https://lemm.ee/pictrs/image/51221f31-8e94-4900-af00-f568e24cfb53.png

So the text one appears the same for both of us but the emoji one appears differently which could possibly change its meaning if they were different enough

ulterno ,
@ulterno@lemmy.kde.social avatar

Probably because the emoji fonts don’t change their colour with the font.color, which normal characters do.

And your browser is using a different font from mine

echodot ,

Emoji are only supported in rich text formatted documents they’re not actual text. If I type a Euro symbol it’s a Euro symbol it’s not a picture of a Euro symbol depending on context it’s the actual Euro symbol. If I ask a computer what symbol it is the computer can tell me it’s a Euro symbol, it doesn’t go, ooh I don’t know it’s a picture.

€ 💶

One renders consistently irrespective of device viewing the other is entirely dependent of device viewing. Go look at this post on different devices and see the problem

friend_of_satan ,

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/88001438-0d9e-42fe-9b6f-21f9d1334609.png

umbraroze ,

Technically, emoji doesn’t even have specific flags, they just have country codes, conforming to the ISO list - actually choosing which flags will be included is up to the individual implemeters. Regional flags got a little bit complicated because they need to establish the conventions first.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Suggestion: We do with the Bitcoin emoji what people did with the eggplant emoji. The B stands for butthole. So now we can do [eggplant emoji] [bitcoin emoji].

I’m sure the TOTALLY NOT HOMOPHOBIC tech bros will love it.

AroAceNerd ,

We must do this if it happens.

Klnsfw ,

Have you checked your =B=?

Lightrider ,
@Lightrider@sh.itjust.works avatar

index ,

Is the government spreading anti-cryptocurrency propaganda or did lemmy got invaded by idiots recently?

gerryflap ,
@gerryflap@feddit.nl avatar

No, people just don’t like crypto because it’s a huge waste of energy that has no use for the average person at the moment and is only used by rich people to get richer without much regulation. Don’t get me wrong, it might definitely be useful when used correctly in the future. Not wasting as much energy by ditching proof of work, becoming actually useful for normal transactions, etc. But right now it’s just an overhyped technology for obnoxious cryptobros.

index ,

No, people just don’t like crypto because it’s a huge waste of energy that has no use for the average person

This is actually part of government propaganda to discredit cryptocurrencies.

Lemmy servers consume energy too and half of the content is memes, i don’t see anyone complaining about it.

Opisek ,

You can’t begin to imagine just how much energy cryptocurrencies use. A web server can never come close.

index ,

I’m sure meta or google energy usage is up there but i’ve yet to see someone complaining about mr.beast or cristiano ronaldo wasting energy with their videos.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Maybe because people value entertainment more than invisible money that won’t help them anyway.

index ,

or more like because the government doesn’t have problems with people keeping themself busy on entertainment vs them using a decentralized and open currency that can bypass financial institutions

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I’m pretty sure the government isn’t forcing people to watch YouTube and neither of the people you mentioned are government employees, unless you’re concocting some elaborate Alex Jones-level conspiracy theory.

index ,

You seem to have same comprehension problems or to be in bad faith. Read carefully what i wrote, it’s nothing of what you said.

Trying to label everything as a conspiracy theory is something the government and propaganda have been doing excessively over the past years. You may not like it to hear it but every time cristiano ronaldo appears in state media and gets paid for it they are indeed working for the government. When the government put restrictions on youtube competitors such tiktok or when they use it to broadcast official events, they are indeed forcing you to use youtube.

That’s not the point of the discussion anyway: cryptocurrencies aren’t controlled by the government and hard to control by design, there lies the government interest to boycott them.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Maybe if it was controlled, it wouldn’t constantly fluctuate in value and would actually be worth buying things with without hoping for a day when it’s worth more and you’re richer.

index ,

Countries currency fluctuate in times to.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I can go to the supermarket next week and milk will cost about the same in dollars as it did this week because the value does not change that rapidly.

Not true with Bitcoin.

index ,

I can go to the supermarket next week and milk will cost about the same in dollars

If you live in america and you are lucky the price of thing stopped increasing perhaps it will cost the same. If you live in any other part of the world that use a different currency the price may be different

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I do live in America and why you think milk costs significantly more from one week to the next I don’t know. Even if the price rises, we’re talking pennies per week. Far less than Bitcoin fluctuates.

I have no idea why you’re even trying to argue that the dollar fluctuates as much in value as Bitcoin because that’s just demonstrably false. This is the current fluctuation of Bitcoin value. If the value of a dollar changed by one percent in a day, that would be huge. Seven percent? That would be a disaster.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/2ea0eba7-49d6-41d3-a861-eb832cdf09f8.png

index ,

JPY to USD +6.70% (1W)

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Cool. You found the one currency the dollar had a lot of fluctuation against in the past week. Good job. Too bad it’s the dollar and the euro whose values are the ones that generally match each other and how it’s usually measured.

Also too bad I gave you lots of weeks and you gave me one.

Go ahead and let me see your source though. Here’s mine:

www.investing.com/crypto/bitcoin/historical-data

It’s already significantly changed percentagewise since I posted that screenshot from less than an hour ago. It’s now +1.9%. Even the dollar vs. the yen did not change that much in less than an hour.

This is a ridiculous hill to die on. This is such a known problem with Bitcoin that stablecoins had to be invented.

echodot ,

Yeah because they have a lot of servers. The problem is each individual web server does not use a lot of energy whereas each individual server running a crypto currency blockchain uses a lot of energy for that one server.

Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In ,

A web server can never come close

but AI model training can.

JustAnotherRando ,

Pretty sure people have been shitting on AI pretty heavily as well, partly for those reasons (but also for several others).

Katana314 ,

I mean…I’ll go one further. I know there have been many historical “aged like milk” quotes, like about how much RAM computers need, but I’m still saying this in confidence: I don’t think that cryptocurrency or blockchains will ever have a useful purpose. Their design is built to solve societal problems, but introduces worse problems in implementing them. This goes well beyond just taking too much electricity.

prole ,

Just gonna copy/paste this from someone else’s comment in this thread: reuters.com/…/california-dmv-puts-42-million-car-…

So… whoops.

Katana314 ,

Every time one of these articles is posted, I predict a very very short investigation into the technical workings of the project will find that the same could’ve been done with a much simpler central database. Or, that they were actually using a database at the backend and wasting their whole crypto approach.

prole ,

And we all know technology never changes or improves over time. Good catch.

conciselyverbose ,

Technology absolutely improves.

But blockchain is worse. And it’s not close.

iopq ,

They already have a useful purpose. Sending crypto is much easier than sending different currencies into different countries. The services exist, but they are prohibitively expensive if you’re sending like $50

Send Monero or something and it’s far easier and faster. You can exchange it for your own currency locally or just sit on it.

Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In ,

no use for the average person at the moment

reuters.com/…/california-dmv-puts-42-million-car-…

prole ,

Bitcoin ≠ cryptocurrency.

Ethereum lowered it’s power consumption by over 99% after switching to Proof-of-Stake.

Bitcoin was the first cryptocurrency and we don’t even fucking know who came up with it.

How about we don’t throw away the possibility of 5.1 Surround Sound Blu-Ray Audio, because wax cylinders sound like shit?

“Computers are cool and all, but they take up entire rooms and only do simple calculations! It’s a complete waste of time and money to invest in such a technology!”

^That’s you

deafboy ,
@deafboy@lemmy.world avatar

it might definitely be useful when used correctly in the future

I can almost see the monk smacking an orphan for holding the spoon in the wrong hand :D

Passerby6497 ,

Nah, idiots bring shitty crypto propaganda and pretend it isn’t just an unregulated security pretending to be an alternative currency (that isn’t usable as a currency for regular people) while using more energy than entire nations, all for a giggle with a shit coin.

index ,

Are you sure you are not confusing propaganda with ads?

Cryptocurrencies are quite easy to use, the process to create a cryptocurrency wallet is much easier than the procedure required to create a bank account or a credit card and these days cryptos are widely accepted even as a currency.

Passerby6497 ,

Are you sure you are not confusing propaganda with what crypto is actually used for?

I don’t care how easy it is to set up a wallet. I cannot take my crypto and go down to the bodega and buy a sandwich. I can’t pay my rent with crypto. I can’t pay my utilities with crypto.

Crypto is not a usable currency for the vast majority of people.

index ,

Before the government enforced credit cards and made them mandatory it would have been really hard to buy a sandwich in bodega with a credit card too. Not sure where you live but these days in most places if you want you can literally pay with all sort of service, they have these big cash registers with the screen that accepts all soft of payment youtubers advertise for.

Crypto is not a usable currency for the vast majority of people.

There aren’t any limits that prevents the majority of people from creating a crypto wallet and using cryptocurrencies

Passerby6497 ,

I don’t care how easy it is to set up a wallet. I cannot take my crypto and go down to the bodega and buy a sandwich. I can’t pay my rent with crypto. I can’t pay my utilities with crypto.

There aren’t any limits that prevents the majority of people from creating a crypto wallet and using cryptocurrencies

This is why people laugh at you cryptobros. I literally tell you why it’s not a usable currency and you tell me it totes is.

Go back to speeding up climate change with your fake currency and stop trying to pretend normal people are using it to for anything other than unregulated securities trading.

index ,

Go back to speeding up climate change with your fake currency

cryptocurrencies provides an open alternative to a centralized and rotten financial system that is at the core of consumerism and the speedrun of mankind into oblivion.

Passerby6497 ,

Yet it still isn’t a usable currency for normal people, and the usage of it is a (gross as well as net) negative to society is directly contributing to, to quote you, the “speedrun of mankind into oblivion.”

echodot ,

You practically use the energy output of a nuclear reactor to process transactions. So I think you’re the ones pushing the expediation of the human races extinction. What’s worse is your been obnoxious while doing it.

prole ,

You’re equating Bitcoin with the entire concept of cryptocurrency. I hate being “that guy” in this thread that seems like a shill for crypto, because I’m really not. I just don’t blindly hate it, and I have a nuanced understanding of it. Wild, I know.

Ethereum reduced it’s energy consumption by over 99% by switching to Proof-of-Stake.

People need to stop using those two words interchangeably. Bitcoin was the first, and in the realm of technological progress, when has the very first try of anything been the best?

Every piece of modern tech we use on a daily basis, ultimately, originated from some primitive form of that tech; Your smart phone didn’t just appear. The airplane you flew in didn’t arrive fully formed (Boeing might wish it did).

Computers used to take up entire rooms and could do basically nothing. People used to use horse-drawn carriages for transportation. etc.

Shit, even the concept of currency/trade itself has changed dramatically over the course of human history. Did you know that our money (USD) used to be backed, literally and physically, by blocks of shiny metal? And any person could literally take their dollar notes and trade them for shiny metal if they wanted? Pretty wacky!

Turns out someone realized that the metal was unnecessary. Lots of people like yourself around back then, and they lost their minds: “How could this piece of paper be worth anything if I can’t literally trade it for a piece of shiny metal? Even if that metal has no real inherent value beyond what society has ascribed to it?”

How long ago was that? Almost 100 years… I think it turned out OK.

I don’t know, just some things to think about I guess.

index ,

You practically use the energy output of a nuclear reactor to process transactions.

Every time you pay with your credit card or use an ATM the same thing happen, with the difference that you are not using a decentralized and open source service.

echodot ,

Incorrect. I don’t use the output of a small town. You use power but nowhere near what cryptocurrencies require.

index ,

I don’t use the output of a small town.

I think you are literally using that since ATM are open 24h

echodot ,

Please go look up the power usage of the two things and then come back and actually talk to me rather than just making stuff up because you like it.

An ATM uses a dribble of power compared to a server

Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In ,

I cannot take my crypto and go down to the bodega and buy a sandwich.

You can

^(but I admit that 95% of the time there is a payment middleman needed to convert crypto to fiat, just like Visa is a middleman)

Entropywins ,

So what you are literally stating is you cannot use cryptocurrency to pay you need to convert into some other actually accepted currency…

prole ,

There are ways. Visa has crypto-linked cards for example.

cointelegraph.com/…/visa-crypto-withdrawals-cards…

Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In ,

swissmoney.com/who-accepts-bitcoin-as-payment

Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In ,

Also, have you ever been somewhere that is card only?

prole , (edited )

Lots of people on the left don’t seem to like crypto on a fundamental level. A lot of the time they seem like they have a tenuous grasp on the concept, at best, and are just parroting what they heard someone else say. Most of the time they’re projecting their criticisms of Bitcoin onto the entire concept of digital currency.

I consider myself a progressive, and I got some ETH at a good time a few years ago, but I’ve been desperate for an exit point in the market for over a year (fomo feels bad man) because the sentiment for crypto among everyone who isn’t an an-cap or tech-bro hobbyist has been atrocious for some time now.

To be clear, I don’t really care for Bitcoin. It was first, and I appreciate how clever it was, mathematically and such, when it was anonymously put out there. But other than that it’s kind of shit. It’s like saying that wax cylinders are better than vinyl records, or even CDs, because they came first.

I hate that people seem to only have room in their brains for one word for “digital currency,” and it happens to be the one with no real useful functionality, while being an absolute disaster for the environment.

It’s not some kind of panacea, but people are writing off (or actively hating on) some very interesting tech. with actual use-cases like Ethereum or Monero (the former of which reduced it’s power consumption by over 99% after switching to Proof-of-Stake, and the latter does not use ASIC miners and is significantly less resource intensive than BTC), because they didn’t get it perfect on the first try. That said, Monero will never be a good long-term investment because it’s too secure and that scares governments. Monero is like what people (at least used to) think Bitcoin is… That is, anonymous, untraceable, etc. No way that succeeds as an investment, and good luck actually using it as a currency with all that volatility.

I think the concept of a digital currency is here to stay whether people like it or not. I think it makes more sense to push for ones that can potentially solve actual issues and aren’t a disaster for the environment, so people don’t call them all “Bitcoin,” like people do for “Q-Tips”. Probably too late.

If I had to guess, long term, nations will see the writing on the wall and start using their own tailor-made CBDCs (Central-Bank Digital Currency) and it’ll probably suck. They will 100% use it for control and oppression. So that’s some fun stuff to look forward to.

index ,

the former of which reduced it’s power consumption by over 99% after switching to Proof-of-Stake

This isn’t necessarily a good thing, there are many arguments against POS. You shouldn’t use non-green energy resources to begin with, if people use these to mine that’s not bitcoin fault.

explodicle ,

This is what the overwhelming majority of people believe. No offense, but were you spending a lot of time on r/Bitcoin?

index ,

The majority of people believes what the government makes them believe, so it make sense.

magic_lobster_party ,

We also need a McDonald’s emoji, Pepsi emoji, Windows emoji and Mastercard emoji. These are also brands that are heavily ingrained in our culture. Probably even more so than Bitcoin.

Or we accept that brands like Bitcoin shouldn’t use emoji as a marketing tool.

pyre ,

Probably even more so

probably? shitcoin isn’t even in the same ballpark universe as something like McDonald’s or Pepsi.

technocrit ,

Yeah McDonalds is based on torturing and murdering animals while destroying the planet… While bitcoin is only destroying the planet like the rest of capitalism.

pyre ,

vegans stay on topic challenge (impossible)

Mubelotix ,
@Mubelotix@jlai.lu avatar

These are not public infrastructure

Chozo ,

Neither is Bitcoin.

AnarchistsForKamala ,

yes, it is. anyone can spin up a node or download the blockchain or make an address.

RxBrad ,
@RxBrad@infosec.pub avatar

Anyone can shit their pants. Is that “infrastructure”?

AnarchistsForKamala ,

the sewer is infrastructure. i don’t think you understand the network protocol.

RxBrad ,
@RxBrad@infosec.pub avatar

I’m not using the sewer when I shit my pants. I don’t think you understand pants.

AnarchistsForKamala ,

maybe you should use the public infrastructure.

Mubelotix ,
@Mubelotix@jlai.lu avatar

You think you can fool people by using a simple straw man argument technique? Come on, get your shit together. Bitcoin is infrastructure as anyone can submit transactions to the network and they will be seamlessly processed. As simple as that

RxBrad ,
@RxBrad@infosec.pub avatar

I know that shouting “straw man!” is the first step of trying to deflect from being wrong on the Internet… But if you’re going to do it, at least know what a straw man is.

My argument is that “Infrastructure” != “anyone can do it”.

Infrastructure is something that benefits and maintains the general public. Bitcoin benefits a handful of cryptobros, billionaires… and most importantly ransomware rings.

Mubelotix ,
@Mubelotix@jlai.lu avatar

Your straw man is “shit in their pants”

Read your own comments dude

RxBrad ,
@RxBrad@infosec.pub avatar

The person I was arguing with was saying that “infrastructure is anything which is something anyone can do”. I gave an example of something that anyone can do which isn’t infrastructure.

It’s absolutely a direct refuation — a counter-example which disproves their original statement. It’s not a “straw man”, as much as you get mad and scream that it is.

Mubelotix ,
@Mubelotix@jlai.lu avatar

So you were wrong from the beginning. He never said “infrastructure is anything which is something anyone can do”. You are the only one who said it. He provided an example of a service provided by the infrastructure in question

itslilith ,
@itslilith@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Should the fediverse get an emoji? How about Matrix?

AnarchistsForKamala ,

as was already said elsewhere, advocating for an emoji is silly, and advocating against one might be sillier.

itslilith ,
@itslilith@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Putting significant energy into campaigning against it? Sure. But what’s silly about saying “this is a stupid idea and shouldn’t happen”?

AnarchistsForKamala ,

that blog post and petition are significantly more than just saying it’s stupid

Emerald ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    AnarchistsForKamala ,

    do you know how I know that you didn’t read the article?

    floquant ,

    Since when is Bitcoin a brand lmao? I’m really struggling to see how it is comparable to McDonald’s or Windows. Having a logo does not make you a corporation

    magic_lobster_party ,

    The Bitcoin logo is the brand. Corporations like exchanges use this brand to market their services.

    AnarchistsForKamala ,

    Bitcoin is a network protocol. not a brand.

    magic_lobster_party ,

    The logo and name is the brand. How do you visually represent a specific payment protocol without using its logo? There’s no emoji for HTTP or TCP either.

    deathbird ,

    I’m actually for the idea of emojis for protocols. Not Bitcoin specifically because I don’t think it has long term potential as a deflationary virual asset, but block chain? Sure.

    AnarchistsForKamala ,

    while there may not be an emoji for http, maybe there should be. there is sort of an unofficial one (a broken lock), and there are other protocols that have logos. as another commenter said, it’s kind of silly to fight for an emojii for it, and probably sillier to fight against it.

    Emerald ,

    while there may not be an emoji for http, maybe there should be.

    No God, Please No!

    We don’t need another gzip or bzip2 logo. Lol

    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/848e55fd-d4e2-4cb6-8680-1afdf95698b9.pnghttps://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/9ea173ff-f430-4844-980a-acdf30c56d68.png

    ByteOnBikes ,

    Nobody is saying Bitcoin to refer to that, ever. Come on.

    AnarchistsForKamala ,

    maybe no one you talk to, but I assure you, it happens. it is happening right now, in this conversation

    Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In ,

    Bitcoin is digital money. A better analogy would be to campaign for a USD, Yen, euro or British pound emoji.

    Oh wait, they already exist.

    magic_lobster_party ,

    https://unicode.org/emoji/proposals.html#Faulty_Comparison

    The existence of other emoji can’t justify the inclusion of a new emoji. Those emojis are old, and it’s unlikely they would’ve been approved under Unicode’s current guidelines.

    Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In ,

    I agree with you.

    I’m not really arguing for a bitcoin emoji. Just against the McDonald’s brand comparison.

    BTC is not mainstream enough (and never will be) to be needed in everyday text speak.

    poo , (edited )
    @poo@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s also a scam. But those who fell for it and NFTs want to downtown cuz mad

    technocrit ,

    How so?

    calcopiritus ,

    The coin itself is not a scam.

    However, its main usage is to receive payments from scams or any other kind of computer-related crime really.

    conciselyverbose ,

    Except those are real currencies the world recognizes.

    Most businesses will tell you to fuck off if you try to pay them in bitcoin.

    Emerald ,

    Most businesses will tell you to fuck off if you try to pay them in bitcoin.

    Yes and no. You can indirectly pay for things in Bitcoin using a Bitcoin credit card. Although I’m not sure why you would want to.

    conciselyverbose ,

    It’s not “paying in bitcoin” if you have a random third party on your side converting it to a currency that isn’t a joke.

    Aolley ,

    hail emoji?

    uriel238 ,
    @uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    🍟 <<< Only one brand sells French fries / Chips in this format. And it’s the super-size format.

    magic_lobster_party ,

    Unicode Consortium decide which emoji should be included. It’s up to each vendor themselves to come up with how they should look like. I don’t think Unicode Consortium explicitly state it must look like McDonald’s fries.

    uriel238 ,
    @uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    No. But the description of the Emoji is French Fries in a red carton.

    Now I can’t be absolutely certain only McDonald’s sells french fries in a red carton, nor do I know if red french fry cartons are trademarked (answers to these questions evaded simple websearches) but I have never seen french fries sold in red cartons outside of McDonald’s.

    If you do find non-McDonald’s french fries sold in a red carton, please point them out.

    magic_lobster_party ,

    Red carton is chosen because that’s how it’s commonly depicted in cartoon images.

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=french+fries+cartoon&t=h_&iar=images&iax=images&ia=images

    uriel238 ,
    @uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    The red and white stripes are the generic 50’s era diner fries. Flat red was introduced by McDonald’s in the 1980s extra-large and super-size cartons. (Before that McDonald’s fries were sold in white waxed-paper envelopes.

    azalty ,
    @azalty@jlai.lu avatar

    At KFC they’re in a red plastic box of the same format. Can’t buy them cuz of reusable packaging laws in France, but that’s what I thought first when I saw this emoji

    uriel238 ,
    @uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    That’s fair. I had forgotten KFC made their own version of fries and boxed them in red.

    deafboy ,
    @deafboy@lemmy.world avatar

    We also need a McDonald’s emoji, Pepsi emoji, Windows emoji and Mastercard emoji

    bitcoin is not a company.

    whotookkarl ,
    @whotookkarl@lemmy.world avatar

    Also not a brand, in the trademark sense

    Emerald ,

    Mastercard emoji

    💳

    lemmytellyousomething , (edited )

    Short reminder that Bitcoin was created as a reaction on the world finance crisis and to allow people like Assange to receive donations, because PayPal and similar just blocked them…

    That does not mean that Botcoin is perfect, but: If the alternative system was perfect, there was not bitcoin.

    Now, do we need an emoji? I don’t care TBH…

    echodot ,

    I don’t mind a system like bitcoin existing but bitcoin itself has way too many problems to be useful and actually is detrimental to the environment. It takes way too long to process a transaction, it is massively energy intensive for what it is, and it’s been hyped up like the Californian gold Rush.

    Sure it was created to solve a problem but it doesn’t actually solve that problem very effectively. It also introduces an infinite number of new problems that no other currency system has ever experienced.

    technocrit ,

    It also introduces an infinite number of new problems that no other currency system has ever experienced.

    Infinite problems, eh? Can you name like 10?

    smeeps ,

    Bitcoin is terrible for that though. High transaction fees, slow transaction speeds, everyone can see your balances and transactions (and with KYC requirements it’s very easy to link a wallet and a coin to a person).

    Monero is the only digital currency worth having.

    deafboy ,
    @deafboy@lemmy.world avatar

    Monero is great. Except for the fact that when the dev team dislikes what miners are doing, they introduce a new arbitrary rule, and everyone just goes with it. Having a process to introduce such changes unilaterally is a bug that needs to be fixed first.

    Also, there’s a lightning network which allows you to transact bitcoin fast and cheap. Although the privacy aspect is still not solved there.

    technocrit ,

    No! Bitcoin is a scam created by scammers! Don’t look at state currencies!!! \s

    smallpatatas OP ,

    This is like saying “laws aren’t always enforced equally, so we should have no laws whatsoever”. Bitcoin is not a helpful response.

    lemmytellyousomething ,

    I think, whether it’s helpful is an individual decision. E.g. for people in Turkey, it’s a lot more stable than their own currency. Same logic for probably dozens of other countries…

    Maybe, it’s not useful for you, but that’s OK. No one is trying to replace your currency with it and force you to use it.

    smallpatatas OP ,

    Bitcoin’s “value” in USD terms has dropped ~20% in the last few days, so I’m not sure we can call it ‘stable’

    iopq ,

    In 1998 the USD fell like 20% vs the yen, currencies don’t always stay the same value vs. other currencies

    smallpatatas OP ,

    Bitcoin regularly loses 85% of its “value” vs USD

    85%

    This has happened multiple times

    lemmytellyousomething , (edited )

    Turkey’s currency dropped 83% in the last 5 years and 94% in 10 years (per USD). And by the way: It dropped and did not rise the same amount ever again…

    Why can’t we just agree that different people might have different views whether it’s useful for them?

    Is it more stable compared to USD? No. Is it more stable compared to dozens of other currencies? Yes.

    I think, there are very good arguments against BTC, for example the energy consunption… But whether it’s too risky for you or not… That’s highly subjective IMO. There is no country on this planet with only BTC as official currency. So, no one is forced to hold 100% of their total money in BTC.

    smallpatatas OP ,

    So the argument is no longer “Bitcoin provides stability” or whatever, but instead is, “it’s no more unstable than the world’s most unstable national currency”?

    lemmytellyousomething ,

    Please tell me where I (or anyone) wrote “Bitcoin provides stability” without comparing it to another currency…

    I assume, arguing with you is an endless circle where you argue against fake arguments that no one has brought up. I’ll therefore end this here. Why are you like this?

    smallpatatas OP ,

    Hey look, I wasn’t the one that wrote this:

    “E.g. for people in Turkey, it’s a lot more stable than their own currency. Same logic for probably dozens of other countries…”

    Is the “dozens of other countries” statement something you no longer stand behind, or are you done being rude?

    iopq ,

    The swings were bigger when the market cap was smaller, this is usually the case. The market cap of the yen is much bigger still.

    smallpatatas OP ,

    Turns out you’re right, BTC price only went down 77% from the 2021 peak, my mistake /s

    quinkin , (edited )

    Should just be a generic crypto currency symbol with a rug being pulled from under it.

    Ghostalmedia ,
    @Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world avatar

    I think I should post a 1000 word essay about why I dislike the merman emoji.

    nublug ,

    fighting for bitcoin to get an emoji is stupid, but fighting against it might be even stupider. surely there are more important things to spend your time and energy on. it’s a fucking emoji. who cares?

    smallpatatas OP ,

    normalizing scams, by laundering their image via standards organizations, pollutes our communications environment. Both an emoji and a petition are symbolic - and our symbols are in fact important.

    CeeBee_Eh ,

    Bitcoin isn’t a scam. All non-bitcoin cryptocurrencies are scams.

    People often hear about stuff like coins that are pre-mined, or proof-of-stake and the schemes and scans that come out of those, and immediately associate Bitcoin with the same thing.

    shortwavesurfer ,

    That is also not 100% true. There are several altcoins with fantastic utility. Monero and Ethereum come to mind.

    sugar_in_your_tea ,

    Exactly. Most cryptocurrencies are scams, but a handful are fantastic. Ethereum is cool for being proof-of-stake (so no high-energy mining), and Monero is cool for being super privacy-oriented. There are a handful more, but honestly, if you stick with Bitcoin, Ethereum, and Monero, you’ll be fine.

    shortwavesurfer ,

    That’s pretty much exactly my thought. I hold a very very small amount in Polygon, but only in order to pay the gas fees for the Polygon network. So I never have more than a few US dollars worth in it at a time.

    sugar_in_your_tea ,

    Yeah, I basically just do Monero, and I use it as a spend account and use it anywhere it’s accepted. I don’t invest in any cryptocurrencies because I don’t think cryptocurrencies have positive expected return (it’s all hype), so I keep the amount of crypto I have small.

    CeeBee_Eh ,

    I wouldn’t argue with that. I was mostly generalizing.

    Mubelotix ,
    @Mubelotix@jlai.lu avatar

    Ethereum has scam characteristics though. The creator Vitalik gave himself time to mine it alone before giving public access. He secured for himself quite a nice stash

    shortwavesurfer ,

    That’s true. I suspect the application programming is the only reason that it actually took off.

    glassware ,

    Of course bitcoin is a scam. It’s a “currency” you can’t spend anywhere. It’s only purpose is a pump and dump scheme for early adopters.

    0x0 ,

    It’s a “currency” you can’t spend anywhere.

    You could’ve at least pretended to have done some basic research…

    CeeBee_Eh ,

    It’s a “currency” you can’t spend anywhere

    Lol

    It’s only purpose is a pump and dump scheme for early adopters.

    This is exactly what many alt-coins are but Bitcoin is decidedly not.

    You’re confusing “easy to mine” with “early adopter scam”.

    reksas ,

    millions of people who use emojis would constantly see it. It would slowly start to feel more familiar to them and increase its acceptance. If that works, others would try to do the same and we would have every and any company put their logos in. If it doesnt then it doesnt matter that much, but i dont want to risk yet another avenue for corporations to worm into peoples minds.

    Personally i dont care about emojis at all but i do care about general mentalspace.

    interdimensionalmeme ,

    It would create legitimation and that could further increase its popularity

    Semi_Hemi_Demigod ,
    @Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

    If we’re not getting an asshole emoji this will suffice.

    SlopppyEngineer ,

    It’ll make it easier to filter out spam. If it contains this emoji, delete it.

    ricecake ,

    Bitcoin is stupid, but the point of Unicode is that we have a symbol for everything that has a commonly recognized symbol or representative value, or even uncommonly recognized.

    If ⅌ gets a character, or all the symbols of the Byzantine musical notation system, I’m not sure why a typically recognized symbol for a cryptocurrency shouldn’t.

    The weird bit is that they put together a petition. All you really need to do is submit a proposal and show that it’s a notable symbol and not owned by anyone in particular or a brand icon.

    Here’s the proposal to add “goose” to Unicode. They even added a few joke-y bits, but they made a valid argument that “goose” is a symbol that people recognize. And now… 🪿

    lunarul ,

    I don’t disagree with the overall comment, but there’s a difference between character and emoji. ⅌ got a character, but so did ₿ already.

    ricecake ,

    There really isn’t a difference between a character and an emoji beyond an emoji being a stylized rendering of a character, or a character whose use is intended as a pictograph.

    www.unicode.org/reports/tr51/#Introduction

    They’re all just Unicode code points, although I suppose there’s some distinction between the characters with more context specific meaning or the ones that are more apt to modification a la 🧑‍⚕️👩🏿‍⚕️. But you’ve also got 💲 and $, where “bold dollar sign” is often represented as green, but “dollar sign” tends to be represented in contextual style. Is ☣ a character or an emoji? What about the thousands of “other symbols” as defined by the Unicode spec which may or may not have special character renderings depending on your platform and font?

    And yeah, I didn’t know that character existed, so now it’s doubly confusing why anyone is asking for anything. The symbol has meaning, and it’s in the big book of meaningful symbols. Not sure what more they want.

    lunarul , (edited )

    There’s no ambiguity. Emoji are characters in the emoticons code block (U+1F600…U+1F64F). Emoji are indeed a subset of characters, but anything outside that block is not an emoji.

    Edit: jumped the gun on that definition, just took the code block from Wikipedia. But there is no ambiguity on which character is an emoji and which is not. The Unicode Consortium publishes lists of emoji and guidelines on how they should be rendered.

    ricecake ,

    Gotcha, so ⌚(U+231A, miscellaneous technical block) isn’t an emoji, despite it clearly being a pictograph, and there are only 80 emoji?

    I feel like this definition isn’t in line with either the lay definition of emoji, nor the technical definition

    Emoji are pictographs (pictorial symbols) that are typically presented in a colorful cartoon form and used inline in text. They represent things such as faces, weather, vehicles and buildings, food and drink, animals and plants, or icons that represent emotions, feelings, or activities.

    People often ask how many emoji are in the Unicode Standard. This question does not have a simple answer, because there is no clear line separating which pictographic characters should be displayed with a typical emoji style.

    Emoji are seriously just Unicode characters that sometimes get rendered as a fancy image. That’s it. There’s an entire bit about how different characters have different conventional presentations and a codified system of “default” for image or “text”.

    The presentation of a given emoji character depends on the environment, whether or not there is an emoji or text presentation selector, and the default presentation style (emoji versus text). In informal environments like texting and chats, it is more appropriate for most emoji characters to appear with a colorful emoji presentation, and only get a text presentation with a text presentation selector. Conversely, in formal environments such as word processing, it is generally better for emoji characters to appear with a text presentation, and only get the colorful emoji presentation with the emoji presentation selector.

    That’s why there’s things like ☣️ and ☣. Same codepoint, but different presentation hints. (I’m assuming that our various systems will do the right thing and capture the presentation hints, otherwise I’m going to look very odd putting the same symbol over and over :-) )

    lunarul , (edited )

    I rushed to just grab that codeblock from Wikipedia. But the selection of which characters are considered emoji is not arbitrary. The Unicode Consortium (their Unicode Emoji Standard and Research Working Group to be exact) publishes those list and guidelines on how they should be rendered. I believe the most recent version of the standard is Emoji 15.1.

    Edit: I realized I’m going off track here by just reacting to comments and forgetting my initial point. The difference I was initially alluding to is in selection criteria. The emoji. for assigning a character a Unicode codepoint is very different from the criteria for creating a new emoji. Bitcoin has a unique symbol and there is a real need to use that symbol in written material. Having a unicode character for it solves that problem, and indeed one was added. The Emoji working group has other selection criteria (which is why you have emoji for eggplant and flying money, and other things that are not otherwise characters. So the fact that a certain character exists, despite its very limited use, has no bearing on whether something else should have an emoji to represent it.

    ricecake ,

    I am aware of the lists and guidelines, I’ve been linking and quoting them to you. :)

    It’s their report on the standards that highlights that they don’t think there’s a clear distinction between “emoji” and “character”, and that it’s mostly a matter of user expectation.
    Hence some pictograph characters having a default “text” presentation, and some having a default “emoji” presentation. They also clarify that some things with a default “emoji” presentation aren’t in the set of characters people would associate with emoji and shouldn’t be counted if you’re trying.

    I understand what you’re saying, which is that the selection criteria is different for a “language symbol” as opposed to a “pictographic symbol”, so they’re different things.
    I disagree and think that “default presentation” might be a better metric, but that ultimately it’s about user and platform expectations. The same character can be presented “emoji” style or “text” style depending on context.

    In any case, I’d also agree that there’s no viability to the notion that people use the Bitcoin symbol in a way that’s independent of the one meaning that it has, so a colorful cartoony rendition becoming an option doesn’t really fit. “His Christmas gift was $$$” is a sentiment people might express. “The hotel is ₿₿₿” just … Isn’t.

    alcoholicorn ,

    cryptocurrency

    LodeMike ,

    It already has a codepoint. ₿

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