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Microsoft really wants Local accounts gone after it erases its guide on how to create them

  • Microsoft removes guide on converting Microsoft accounts to Local, pushing for Microsoft sign-ins.
  • Instructions once available, now missing - likely due to company’s preference for Microsoft accounts.
  • People may resist switching to Microsoft accounts for privacy reasons, despite company’s stance.
baronvonj ,
@baronvonj@lemmy.world avatar

the stupid thing is I still have my children and I adding our MS accounts after creating the local accounts, because I like setting the parental limits once for all the computers. I just can’t stand the stupid email-based usernames it creates when signing into the MS account during account creation.

SnotFlickerman , (edited )
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

What’s crazy is the cybersecurity teams at big corporations actually hate this because its putting half their security in Microsofts hands. (And their security has been abysmal for a hot minute or more)

Corporations hate this shit too because they want to be using their internal, domain-controlled users, not Microsoft accounts that pass a ton of trade secrets to Microsoft. Is Microsoft training its AI on your trade secrets? Who knows!

So Microsoft is literally killing core competencies not just for end-users, but for businesses, too.

This will convince a lot of businesses the switch to an all Linux internal domain to be worth it, imho.

cheese_greater ,

Are they (Microsoft) like suicidal or something? They are absolute madmen

Cosmicomical ,

I also think the same, I’m afraid we live in a tech-savvy bubble

bizarroland ,

I really wish it would, but the people that are the decision makers at businesses simply do not care what Microsoft does as long as it doesn't impact their bottom line. Yes it's incredibly user hostile. Yes it's an administrative nightmare for the IT people, but for the suits that write the checks? It's just the cost of doing business and they literally could not give a fuck if you paid them.

grue ,

Maybe the execs don’t care and the IT folks don’t have the power to override them, but surely the legal department cares, right?

mark3748 ,

What’s even crazier is that corporate customers don’t actually deal with this in any way! There’s no Microsoft account required on an Active Directory controlled PC.

Source: I am big corporate IT. Oh, and my personal AD deployment, outside of work

SnotFlickerman , (edited )
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

How are you accomplishing this? Provisioning the PCs to be part of the domain with a Powershell install script during automated setup? Because I was under the impression that this also had become a difficult task with 11. Because a Windows 11 machine doesn’t know it’s going to be part of the domain until it has been added to the domain. So, the only way I can see that working is like Powershell combined with WDS or something.

Source: Am small IT

EDIT: Also, the LTSC version of Windows 11 isn’t coming until later in 2024. So I’m very curious how this works with 11 specifically.

mark3748 ,

Windows 11 Enterprise likely uses a different OOBE, I just tell it to join during setup. At work, everything is image-based and pre-configured so no standard OOBE.

Like most things at MS, those with the resources get everything they want while the little guy gets screwed.

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

*smacks forehead

Ah yes, I forgot about the existence of Entrprise edition. I’ve just never dealt with a business that paid for such a thing, I guess.

SupraMario ,

Yup, you can DL enterprise Win11 for free to, just gotta know how to grab it from MS.

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

just gotta know how to grab it from MS.

Be a kind soul and share, please and thank you.

tordenflesk ,

massgrave.dev/windows_11_links

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Shit, I was just looking at massgrave the other day, didn’t realize they had direct links. Thanks a bunch.

CarbonatedPastaSauce ,

Haha, I work for one of Microsoft’s biggest customers and they still treat us like shit. Trust me they don’t do favors for anybody. They honestly do not care.

vodka ,

LTSC 24H2 released sometime at the end of May? I installed it just recently in a VM…

Appoxo ,
@Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

During setup press Shift + F10, type OOBEbypassnro, press enter and have fun creating local accounts.

Sidyctism2 ,

That has been err “fixed” some time ago. You cant open the command window during setup anymore

Appoxo ,
@Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

You can. I downloaded the (german language) setup iso from microsoft about 3 weeks ago.

Sidyctism2 ,

I tried it a couple months ago on a laptop, didnt work. But it also already came with a W11 install, maybe thats why

Appoxo , (edited )
@Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Tried it just yesterday with the multi edition iso directly downloaded from the ms web page.
But as I am in Germany and my region is the EU/in Germany we get a different treatment.

Or it’s just the OS the OEM delivers that is BS :p

Sidyctism2 ,

Im from germany too, so i would guess its the latter

Jyek ,

Windows 11 pro OOBE > get device online either via WiFi or wired network or bypass via commands > set up for school or work > sign in options > Domain Join. This asks you for local account name and password for a local administrator account and then drops you on the login screen.

BassTurd ,

As cool as it would be to see a big shift to Linux, I think you underestimate how deeply entrenched companies are with Microsoft, so unwilling to change, the lack of support for proprietary software, and probably most importantly, the lack of IT support to manage a Linux environment.

I’ve been full Arch since December in my personal stuff and have been a Sys Admin+ for 9+ years. I would not say I currently have the skills to effectively administer a Linux environment. I could get there, and there is a lot of overlapping knowledge, like the network stack didn’t change, but I don’t think I’m an outlier.

I recently switched from being the sole IT guy at a small/medium company so a place with about 2k employees. I have maybe met a couple of people within the company IT that I think could make the switch relatively well, and 70% of others that just don’t got it.

Long term it would probably be fine, but that’s not how companies work in most cases. I just don’t think most places are willing to bite the bullet now to benefit later.

fishpen0 ,

This. We tried to ban windows and literally the ELT blocked it because they personally didn’t want to learn MacOS despite the entire engineering, product, and medical team being on it. We now keep having to pay more for audits and for security solutions for the 15 people refusing to get off windows in mostly the finance part of the company

brbposting ,

Depending on how:

  • much they make
  • slow they are learning new things, and
  • how long they remain employed

that could be the cheaper path!

And so much more fun for IT regardless!

https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/66a7bf34-3f5f-4a4b-b42c-25d07866fb49.jpeg

MiltownClowns ,

Its crazy their doing this while their CEO is being dragged on front of congress for their massive security breaches. Almost as if a monopoly is a bad.

xenomor ,

I had very modest needs for Windows. It was not my primary computing device, but there was one application that I ran on an older laptop all the time. All the recent drama pushed me to investigate a bit and I learned that the app is also on Linux. I was able to wipe and install Linux Mint easily despite not really knowing much about either OS. There are a lot of guides on youtube about the process that helped make it easy. Laptop is running well so far. I’m also using this as as a test to see if I can replace much of my Apple stuff with Linux as those devices start to age out. Thanks for the little push Microsoft.

cheese_greater , (edited )

In Soviet Russia…

  • Microsoft account Cloud disappear sinks you!
  • Windows crash you!
  • Windows uninstall you!
  • Microsoft accounts you!
  • Windows look thru you!
  • Windows file you!
dch82 ,

Microsoft Recall you!

JoMiran ,
@JoMiran@lemmy.ml avatar

Honest question: What does Microsoft expect people with no Internet access to do?

bassomitron ,

Afaik, it’ll just use a cached login

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

What chached login? This is talking about a fresh install on a clean (or wiped clean) drive.

Where would this be cached on a brand new PC never connected to the internet?

bassomitron ,

Ah, I misunderstood. If there’s no Internet during initial install, pretty sure it’ll just default to using local. I’m not 100% certain, though, as I’ve not setup a totally offline install in a long time. I also haven’t used any edition of Windows that wasn’t at least Professional or Enterprise, so I’m guessing there’s differences there as well for account management.

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Yeah that has been entirely removed in the Win 11 initial setup. It does not default to local account.

You literally have to disconnect internet, open a console window, type in oobe/bypassnro and then reboot. Only then will it default to a local account.

bassomitron ,

Yikes, that’s ridiculous. Microsoft incompetence and greed at its finest.

Grippler ,

They’re poor…fuck 'em, who needs them!?

homesweethomeMrL ,

This is the actual, real, subpoena-the-emails-you’ll-find-it answer.

AlexWIWA ,

I guarantee some smarmy PM said it in Teams when a developer asked this question.

ArbitraryValue ,

When I bought my Windows 11 laptop a month ago, I was able to set up a local account after turning on airplane mode. (I had entered my wifi password in an earlier step since I thought it was just for installing updates.)

empireOfLove2 ,
@empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

People with no internet access obviously don’t exist.

kevincox ,
@kevincox@lemmy.ml avatar

They added telemetry. 100% of responses had internet access.

Moorshou ,

Microsoft learned the right lesson, everyone has internet! \s

homesweethomeMrL ,

That’s just science.

SteveDinn ,
@SteveDinn@lemmy.ca avatar

I see what you did there.

brbposting ,

https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/72a33206-3b57-4176-9487-13d7b42d0c68.png

Moneo ,

Beauty.

empireOfLove2 ,
@empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Flawless statistics!

Olhonestjim , (edited )

I travel. My Internet is off until I activate my hotspot. Whatever MS is doing, it ain’t worth it to me. I went all in on Linux (I use PopOS btw) a couple years ago.

sunzu ,

At this point, the quicker people switch, the easier it will be for them.

You can learn linux today or you going to learn it next year. Choice is yours.

Lost_My_Mind ,

You seem to be implying that most people CAN learn linux. I’ve tried for 10 years now, on 4 different ossasions.

I don’t get it. I WANT TO get it…I don’t get it. But I also don’t want Windows 8, Windows 10, or Windows 11 especially.

…so I just stay on Windows 7.

And before anyone gives me flack about security, I’m not even 100% sure my firewall is on. I tinkered with it about 8 years ago, I don’t remember if I turned it back on, or left it off.

I THINK I might have AVG free anti-virus, from like 10 years ago…I honestly can’t tell you the last time I ran it.

People won’t switch to linux until the Android of PC distros comes out. The one that you can install programs by downloading a file. If thats .apk, fine. If it’s .exe, fine. Just as long as the process goes “go to website, download file, double click file, get gui for installation process…terminal? What’s terminal? Oh no, are you sick?”

Now on android, you CAN still use terminal, but I would guess that less than 1% of its userbase knows what that is.

Since a corporation wrote the first version of Android, and since Linux is something like 40 years old…but has never even attempted this approach on pc, I’m left to believe that the people who write these distros for free are actively against the idea of linux being adopted by the masses.

So no…people won’t “learn it now, or learn it next year”. They’ll just suffer through whatever bullshit microsoft says. And thats going to affect the world. Because now microsoft will have a worldwide network of spying on EVERYONE. (Except those on mac or linux, which is like 15% of the pc market)

yeather ,

Ubuntu is basically what you are describing.

original_reader , (edited )

I would say it is openSUSE Aeon.

An immutable distro that you install and it “just works”. Applications come in via the onboard Software Manager (using Flatpack). It is almost impossible to break, as the system itself is read-only. If an update should break something, the OS rolls back itself. It can do this, because it’s basically updating what you’ll get after the next reboot, not the running system. If something goes wrong, it reboots to the working version.

Still in development, but super stable.

Edit: spelling

Lost_My_Mind ,

I tried it back in 2012. I hated it. Little icons on the side of the screen. No taskbar. Blech.

yeather ,

They have a taskbar and stuff now I think

CileTheSane ,
@CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

You tried it 12 years ago. So before Windows 8 came out? Think of how much Windows has changed in that time. Linux distros have changed as well, but they have focused on usability with each change.

sunzu ,

When was last time you used Linux? Flatpak?

Many of these issue are resolved it seems.

Also, you are acting like windows never has any issues. If you just need to open browser and surf web, they work about the same.

But yeah, we sometime off before grandmas should be put on it. But any middle aged person can use it now imho

Lost_My_Mind ,

I don’t know what flatpack is…so I assume before that? Last time I intensely tried to get into it, was about 4 years ago. I tried not so intensely last year to turn my raspberry pi’s fan on. It is off, I want it on. Instead of a physical switch I could just flick, they decided to get fancy with it, and require terminal to turn it on. It USED TO work, but in order to fix an unrelated problem, I updated the system, and that broke everything. Now when you try to run the command it gives an error.

And the difference between Windows having an error, and Linux having an error, is if I have a problem on windows, I can type “Windows 7, (problem here), reddit”. It will give me a detailed set of instructions that tell me what to do. But with linux, I can find a set of instructions on how to fix the problem, and it always goes “first update everything. Now, do these commands in terminal.” The only problem is, linux is so fractured into so many different layouts and structures, and the help guides always assume your system is the exact same as their system, that you end up getting an error code. Now if you know linux, you know what commands to do to change/fix things. If you’re like me, you see some bullshit like “partician not registried”, and you have no idea what to do with that. So you google it, find 15 different answers. And with each one you try, you just make things worse and worse.

The difference between niave and stupid is that niave people haven’t been taught things. Stupid people can’t learn things. I’m linux stupid, and I would say the vast majority of people are linux stupid. However, despite how fractured Android is, I would say most people are either Android smart, or Android niave. With the difference being if they’ve ever used Android. I’ve never seen someone use Android for a day, and say “I can’t figure out how to set the video driver above 320x240p”. Or figure out why there’s no sound. Or figure out why the whole screen is tinted blue. Or why they can’t turn a fan on.

Linux users have this belief that “oh, everything is easy for me, so it must be easy for everyone”. What they don’t realize is how hard it is to get help running linux. Imagine a blind guy going to a french guys house, and asking where they keep their screwdriver. There’s no standard place. Mine is in my silverware drawer behind the hammer. But if I speak french, and you do not, if you’re blind how would you ever even know where my silverware drawer is, in a house you’ve never been? How would you even ask for help?

That’s the linux experience for me. Nothing works. I can’t fix anything. And the attempts at help I get just make things worse, because they expect my system to be like their system. And it’s not.

wanderingmagus ,

Have you tried Linux Mint? That’s pretty user-friendly. As long as it’s a .deb, you can double-click install through a GUI, no terminal needed. There’s an “app store” with most of your standard apps, like Discord, Slack, Teams, Skype or VLC, and it has an office suite pre-installed along with an email client. The first time you start, there’s a welcome screen that helps you through setting up the firewall, appearance (you can make it look like XP if you want), backups, NVIDIA drivers, and update manager you can ignore or manually update or automatically update. I don’t know your system, but it’s pretty intuitive for Windows users (I use a Windows 10 theme). I’d encourage you to give it one more try, if you’re still open to it.

Shdwdrgn ,

I’ll just add that nearly all linux distributions have a package manager you can access from the desktop. Simply open it up, find the software you want, and click to install. Not much different than going to the play store and installing an android app. The only time you need to do anything different is if you’re trying to install some obscure software that isn’t directly supported by your linux distribution, then you might have to resort to the command line.

CarbonatedPastaSauce ,

I’m going to have nightmares about this post.

ladfrombrad ,
@ladfrombrad@lemdro.id avatar

www.android-x86.org

ninja edit: Hell, even a Chromebook will see you right with some of your other complaints in this thread about Taskbars etc. Unless of course you’re averse to anything Corp / they spying on you in which case you’re fucked anyhoo.

Sanctus ,
@Sanctus@lemmy.world avatar

Think I’m gonna try to replace my gaming desktop again. Its the last machine of mine still on Windows. I just hurt myself years ago by buying a 2080 TI

sunzu ,

I am on nvidia hardware. popos worked no problems.

Nvidia open source drivers are around the corner too!

Sanctus ,
@Sanctus@lemmy.world avatar

Its me, I wanted to take my arch install from my laptop because the rice is sexy. It was a bad idea.

sunzu ,

look at this person... going straight for the hard stuff!

Sanctus ,
@Sanctus@lemmy.world avatar

“I have my configs on github. I can just pull them down and be done.”

I fucken learned that day.

Potatos_are_not_friends ,

My whole company moved out of windows during the pandemic. It was all forced.

And surprisingly, after a year, it was pretty smooth.

Push your IT folks to do the same everybody. The money saved is significant. And the learning curve is annoying, but not as annoying as managing Windows.

Rivalarrival ,

It’s not the IT folks who need to be pushed. It’s the users.

TexMexBazooka ,

Try and push “we’re all switching to Linux!” To a help desk team and let me know how that goes

Rivalarrival ,

Well, yeah. I mean, help desk deals with users at their moment of peak incompetence. If 1 in 20 users can’t figure out that “Office” is now “Libre office”, help desk is going to be swamped.

The solution is to merge help desk and HR, so that something productive can be done about PEBCAK issues.

Moneo ,

You’re fired.

Pechente ,

Recently set up my Win 11 gaming pc and despite being tech savvy, I couldn’t get around the requirement without googling. I needed to run a fucking command in order for the Windows installer to let me create an offline account. That’s just so scammy. Imagine paying money for Windows.

homesweethomeMrL ,

When you realize that micro$quash has never not been incredibly scammy and skeezy from the get-go, the modern business landscape makes more sense.

Also, every day is a good day to leave microsoft behind forever.

DeathsEmbrace ,

Remove Ethernet or internet. They cannot force you to sign in if you literally can’t. Anybody who doesn’t want to and yes they recently removed it from the system so fuck windows and Microsoft for continuously being the shittiest and most popular OS but this is impossible to circumvent so it’s 100% foolproof for offline accounts. The only way is if they gave you a local database of every account but that would be stupid as shit.

PoolloverNathan ,

IIRC you are required to connect to internet to continue the setup process in newer versions.

DeathsEmbrace ,

Antarctica too? What about people who don’t have internet?

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Yes, you have to unplug ethernet AND do the oobe/bypassnro command and reboot.

Gerudo ,

Just bought a ROG Ally. It’s my first forced use of 11 and the device is great, however Windows has never been more of a pain in the ass.

BaroqueInMind ,

You enjoy using it? Any gripes? How’s it compared to Steam Deck? Why did you decide to get it over Steam Deck?

Gerudo ,

Honestly, Windows is my only gripe. I did choose knowing it because I wanted not only Steam access, but xbox cloud/gamepass and any other launcher. When using the built in Armory Crate software, which is their custom gaming software, it runs great, almost flawless. The software toggles for framerate limits, refresh rates etc is really well done.

Hardware wise, it’s light which I love, the screen is really solid and audio actually is impressive. I know fully cranked specs will drain the battery quite quick. So far though with stardew valley and Xbox cloud, I’ve been surprised at battery life, and haven’t felt a need for an external battery yet.

Plus I paid less than the cheapest Steam Deck despite me getting the 512gb version too.

Boiglenoight ,

“Imagine people paying for Windows.” You had me up to the point that you explained why Microsoft might want to get rid of local accounts. You’re doing the thing that gives executives the idea of forcing online connectivity.

selokichtli ,

I’ll just wait until Windows 10 reaches EOL. My expectative is that, by then, someone has created an ISO with the option of offline accounts enabled or Microsoft just gave up with this nonsense. IrIf not, I have Nobara already set up in dual boot. Proton is getting better and better by the day, anyway.

MushuChupacabra ,
@MushuChupacabra@lemmy.world avatar

I was able to circumvent all of this on my Windows 10 machine, by installing Linux Mint.

I didn’t even have to throw out my PC for not being good enough for Windows 11.

ItsComplicated ,

Microsoft is unable to track local accounts as thoroughly.

I was finally going to attempt installing Linux Mint only to find out it is not as simple as some say. I know less than nothing about computers and then there are mirrors you have to choose from to download. I have no idea what would be a safe secure mirror.

Then you have to install other software I have no knowledge of to make a bootable drive…I am just not intelligent enough I suppose. I was hoping it was a simple download process.

I am just a tad bit frustrated!

GregorGizeh ,

Dont you worry, mint provides a detailed step by step tutorial on how to do things:

…readthedocs.io/…/latest/

AlexWIWA ,

I think they were following the guide based on what they said was frustrating them. I think Mint could simplify the instructions for non tech people and remove the asides like checking file hashes.

skizzles ,

The process is actually simple.

It can be a little daunting at first because it’s new, but don’t let that discourage you. You can mostly ignore the whole mirrors thing, just pick one that is geographically close to you to hopefully get a better download speed. Outside of that, all the mirrors lead to the same file just in a different physical location.

Installing another software to make a bootable drive. You can use Rufus, which has a portable version so there’s no need to install it. I put a link below, there’s one in the downloads list that says portable.

rufus.ie/en/

There are plenty of step by step tutorials out there, however since Linux is very open, a lot of guides may give different advice and knowing what to/not to do can feel confusing. (For instance, if you have an SSD in your computer, you really shouldn’t use a swap partition unless you absolutely have to due to limited RAM.) In most cases though you can get by with the defaults when installing something like mint.

That being said. You could simply make the boot stick and try out the live version of the OS before committing to wiping any of your drives to install the OS. Just know that running the live version from the boot stick will be slow, it may take a little time for things to boot which is normal since you are running the os off of a USB stick.

If you would like some help I could try to give you some guidance. I would just want to know the specs/model of your computer so I can make sure I lead you in the right direction.

ItsComplicated ,

Appreciate the link!

Rufus is what the instructions said to download and then a list of prompts to enter in the command line. I understand none of those prompts, literally a completely different language.

I am using an old laptop that has windows 7 on it. Figured it didn’t matter if I screwed that up since it was old and not in use.

AlligatorBlizzard ,

What instructions are you following? Last time I used Rufus on Windows, it had a graphical interface with reasonable default settings and zero messing around on the command line. (I mean, I sometimes did once I was booted into Linux, but I was using distros where that’s not unexpected.)

ItsComplicated , (edited )

deleted_by_author

    •
    skizzles , (edited )

    I just downloaded rufus and a mint iso, here’s a couple screen grabs.

    Launch rufus, and plug in your usb stick, it should show up under device.

    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/393987ca-2898-4e4b-b7af-c85314d78fc9.png

    From there click select on the right side. Browse to where you have the ISO you got from the linux mint website and select it.

    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/33624abd-7f97-4e39-90b7-4ae02b6e386e.png

    Once you get back to the other screen hit start.

    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/d5388b83-0bb6-4853-a343-00a8eeabdbff.png

    You shouldn’t need to mess with any settings unless you are using secure boot.

    Once that’s done, you should restart and boot from the USB stick. Depending on the model of your laptop there are different methods to get into the bios to change the settings to allow booting from usb. If it goes into grub mode it will look like a command prompt with a few selections. Just hit enter on the first option and it will boot into the live usb.

    Once you are in the live usb mode, it’s basically all gui to install, test, etc.

    Nowadays the terminal stuff is not really needed for basic use, so you should be able to get spun up pretty easy.

    ItsComplicated ,

    Thanks for the screenshots! I have saved this comment for reference. I plan to try again tomorrow. Fingers crossed.

    russjr08 ,

    Let us know how it goes, and if you have any further questions, feel free to give us a shout!

    ItsComplicated ,

    I wanted to add an additional reply thanking you again for the screenshots.

    These visuals helped put the worded instructions in context for me so I was successful in creating and installing the bootable drive.

    ItsComplicated ,

    I wanted to add an additional reply thanking you again for the screenshots.

    These visuals helped put the worded instructions in context for me so I was successful in creating and installing the bootable drive.

    Grippler ,

    Then you have to install other software I have no knowledge of to make a bootable drive

    Eh, this is the same for windows as well, you always need some sort of installation medium to boot and install from regardless of OS.

    scytale ,

    The difference is OP probably got their device with Windows already installed and they only needed to go through the setup steps. Setting up the installation media really is the biggest barrier of entry to linux right now. A lot of distros are so easy to set up with a step-by-step gui installer, but a lot of non technical users don’t have the knowledge, skill, or motivation to download an iso and create a bootable drive.

    Grippler ,

    I mean, obviously…but that’s not really something that’s going to change. And today it is a seriously low barrier to pass, I’m not sure how it could go any lower, aside from.maybe buying a pre-made USB stick for installation. It already requires literally no skill other than basic reading comprehension. There is a plethora of step-by-step guides online, the only thing really keeping people from switching is their own inertia.

    Reverendender ,

    Have you met people?

    PythagreousTitties ,

    Batman: He must have friends.
    “Have you met this guy?”

    ItsComplicated ,

    I suppose it is automatic on Windows so it has the illusion of being easy. I can honestly say, I have not had to install anything after I hit the update button. I am also old and don’t use a computer every day.

    Grippler ,

    I suppose it is automatic on Window

    No it’s not… When you have no OS on a computer you still have to create the bootable USB for windows in the exact same way as with Linux, you still need to boot with it the exact same way and follow the installation instructions. The process is identical with the same level of “complexity”.

    ItsComplicated ,

    My apologies. My laptop had Windows already installed therefore I haven’t had to do anything other than turn it on and follow the onscreen instructions.

    IronKrill ,

    It’s similar, but not the same. Most Linux distros require you to download a third-party program that people’ve never heard of. Windows gives you an all-in-one program from their official website, thus it’s easy to trust. Arguably Linux’s solution is better because you can use that program for multiple purposes. That and I think the trust factor is overblown as the distro will recommend the software and it’s not hard to find people vouching for it, so if you trust the distro you may as well trust the program.

    Shdwdrgn ,

    To answer your first question, ALL of the mirrors are safe. The idea with mirrors is that you choose one that is geographically close to your location (same country, maybe the same region or state) to help reduce lag in downloading the files. Any selection is valid, all of the mirrors will have the same content, but for your location some mirrors may simply be faster or slower than others.

    One other thing you might run in to is different types of installers. Some may be a very minimal install which only give you a command line, while others will provide a fully configured desktop. You might also see an option for a “Live” version – that is something you put on a bootable memory stick and you can test out a working version of the operating system without actually changing anything on your computer, but all of your settings will go away when you reboot.

    I haven’t used Mint so I can’t provide specific info, however some things that are common to ANY linux desktop – You probably want to start with printer drivers (install CUPS) and some office software (install LibreOffice). For internet access, Firefox and Thunderbird are good choices. LicreOffice, Firefox, and Thunderbird can all also be used on Windows if you want to check them out ahead of time. There are many lists online that can point you to equivalent software, so like if you use Lightroom on windows, you might try Darkroom on linux. basically you just need to make a list of what Windows software you use and then install a similar package in linux.

    Yes you will need some time to learn the new operating system and all the new software, very little will be 100% exactly the same, but they are “close enough”. You figured out how to use all these things once before, so you can do it again, and it will definitely be worth the effort.

    ItsComplicated ,

    The hard part is getting the software on a usb drive to use on the old laptop. I haven’t figured out what the instructions mean in order to implement. I have a lot of learning to do.

    Shdwdrgn ,

    Don’t feel bad, that’s a shitty process even for those of us in IT. Sometimes it doesn’t work for certain models of memory sticks, sometimes something on the computer gets in the way of booting to the drive. I recently worked on some servers where I had to disable EFI, grab a 15 year old installer to get linux booted up on it, then switch to the newer installer to complete the process. So far Dell has been the worst (but also the most frequently used) I’ve had trouble with for getting linux installed. Unfortunately the solutions usually involve combinations of disabling EFI, changing the hard drive to a different mode, or even changing what mode the memory stick is booted with (all selected from within the BIOS at boot time), and it’s not always the same process even for the same release of a machine.

    It’s not you, it’s Microsoft working with the manufacturers to make it difficult for people to switch.

    ItsComplicated ,

    I think more people would use Linux if it were a simpler process. The ones I know fed up with Microsoft have gone with Macbooks.

    Shdwdrgn ,

    Just curious, but have you ever tried installing Windows from scratch on a new computer? I’m just wondering if your comparison of “simpler” is the same installation of both operating systems, or if you’re comparing something that somebody else set up for you to something you’re doing yourself?

    And yeah, it DID used to be dead simple… throw in an installation media and boot up the machine. These days there’s so much garbage in the way that they’re complicated the whole process without much gain.

    ItsComplicated ,

    Just curious, but have you ever tried installing Windows from scratch on a new computer?

    I do not believe so. I have only factory reset it.

    PythagreousTitties ,

    I have. Used a disc and everything. It takes forever, but it’s pretty dead simple.

    Shdwdrgn ,

    Back in the days when people still had floppies and cd drives in their computers, yeah things were dead-simple. You pop in a disk, format the hard drive, and walk away while the process completes. I miss that. The machines I’ve worked on in probably the last decade, it seems like I have to fight against the hardware every time I want to wipe the system or replace a failed drive. The last set of servers I got, I couldn’t figure out why the linux image (with full EFI settings) refused to even boot up properly. Turns out Dell had made these machines so you could easily boot a Windows installer from any of the external USB ports, but to install linux you had to use a hidden internal USB port. Once I found out about that then yeah the installation went as planned, but this is the kind of BS I’m referring to about manufacturers trying to prevent users from getting rid of Windows.

    PythagreousTitties ,

    Ouch. Yeah, that’s ridiculous. I feel ya.

    Audacious ,

    Microsoft ignoring Linux exists is prime anticompetitive behavior. It causes problems that Linux installations have to go around. I learned that when installing a dual boot configuration.

    AlexWIWA ,

    They really ought to include this info about mirrors on their website. They have an aside about checking file hashes which can give paranoia to people who don’t know what’s going on.

    474D ,

    It really seems more complicated than it is. I switched to a dual boot of windows and Linux mint about a year ago and it was super smooth, have basically never used the terminal. if you still want to try and have any questions, feel free to ask. Linux is really a nice feeling of being away from MS bullshit.

    ItsComplicated ,

    I want to figure it out if for no other reason than to prove to myself I am not too old to learn new tricks!

    wanderingmagus ,

    Hope all the other comments and suggestions are helping! Installation is honestly the only “hard” step for Mint. Once you’re done with this, it should be smooth sailing - and if you ever need any help, just ask!

    ItsComplicated ,

    I was hesitant to say anything at first but I am glad I did. Everyone so far has been wonderful and supportive.

    Kudos to you all for helping a stranger with no skill or tech savvy. I WILL try again.

    TheLastOfHisName ,

    You have a whole community backing you! And once you’ve installed the OS, you’ll feel like you can conquer the world.

    ItsComplicated ,

    I am in the process of trying this again!

    PythagreousTitties ,

    I know I’m going to eventually switch over. I’m curious how it ends up going with your install.

    ItsComplicated ,

    Slow going but better than my first attempt. I at least made the bootable usb now so this is huge progress for me!

    PythagreousTitties ,

    Cool. I figured it’d be a long process, an all day project. I just “fear” the possible complexity.

    wanderingmagus ,

    Good to hear! Let us know if you need any help with the install - some computers will try to fight the install, others are much more amenable to it. As long as you follow the instructions from the Linux Mint page, you should be fine.

    cmnybo ,

    All of the mirrors listed on their website are safe. Just pick one close to you. If it downloads too slow, you can try a different mirror. If you know how to use bittorrent, you can use their torrent link. It will typically be the fastest.

    Forester ,
    @Forester@yiffit.net avatar

    Welcome to the Linux community. Most of the software is free and open source. Most of the people who utilize this software are good people who want to help you. However, there are a few people who are total dick heads and who want to fuck you over. So because of that we build security into most of the things that we produce. For instance, if you were confused by why it instructs you to run a checksum after you download the software, that is because the actual authors of the software want to make sure that you downloaded their legitimate software and not some hack bullshit posted by somebody else. A checksum is just comparison of what you have installed to what you’re supposed to have installed and your computer will tell you if things don’t match up.

    Mechaguana ,
    @Mechaguana@programming.dev avatar

    Download any mirror. Accept any prompt. Where you are going, chaos is your friend, and the beautiful electric sizzling is your orchestra.

    Edit: also just watch a vid theres tons out there.

    PythagreousTitties ,

    Everyone always says Linux is easy these days. Until you start asking how to actually install it.

    ReveredOxygen ,
    @ReveredOxygen@sh.itjust.works avatar

    For mainstream distros it’s pretty easy

    1. Download an ISO
    2. Install Rufus or another media writer
    3. Write the ISO to a flash drive
    4. Boot the flash drive
    5. Click install
    6. Follow the prompts until it’s installed
    Wet ,
    @Wet@lemmy.world avatar

    Ubuntu used to send you a CD-ROM ready to use free of charge back in the day.

    I’ve done this whole process hundreds of times and it’s straightforward now, but the first times where really confusing, I totally understand you.

    you basically want to put the installer file in a USB, but you can’t simply copy and paste it because it needs to be “bootable”, that’s why you use a tool like Etcher or similar.

    any link in the official Linux Mint page will point you to reputable sources so just pick the first one. the beauty of open source is that it’s not as centralized as a big corporation’s software, you have choices, confusing at first, I know, but it’s worth it once you get past the learning stage

    GreatAlbatross ,
    @GreatAlbatross@feddit.uk avatar

    This is good feedback, the Mint team could definitely streamline things, maybe even with a “help pick”.

    Because it’s not immediately apparent which to use (Cinnamon/MATE/Xfce).
    I’m not sure how the resolve the mirror issue, sadly.
    The cost of serving the data directly would be very high, but doing so would avoid scaring people. Unfortunately, it’s hard for them to 100% guarantee every mirror is safe (even though they are!), which means they have to leave instructions on how to verify.

    Selling pre-loaded USB sticks would be very cool, but people would have to be interested enough to spend £20.

    ItsComplicated ,

    Selling pre-loaded USB sticks would be very cool, but people would have to be interested enough to spend £20

    I am one that would happily purchase something like that. I finally made the bootable drive but am not sure if the install is verified. There was no sha txt file to compare. I just haven’t figured it out yet

    wanderingmagus ,

    The sha txt file should’ve been available alongside the iso file from the mirror you downloaded it from. Honestly, as long as you used one of the mirrors that the Linux Mint website provided, you should be perfectly fine.

    ItsComplicated ,

    Is there a way to check it after install before it is connected to the internet?

    I did use one of the mirrors on the Linux download page.

    wanderingmagus ,

    It should be fine. If you’re truly worried, go here:

    ftp.heanet.ie/mirrors/linuxmint.com/stable/

    And click the version of Linux Mint you downloaded - it’s probably 21.3 - and then download both sha256sum.txt and sha256sum.txt.gpg by right-clicking -> “save link as…” to download the files themselves.

    After that, verify the iso you had in your downloads folder by following the instructions here:

    …readthedocs.io/…/verify.html

    Again, as long as you downloaded from one of the mirrors linked on the Linux Mint download page, you should be absolutely fine. This step is a just-in-case, for your personal ease of mind. It will, however, need you to open cmd.exe and copy the code inside the green boxes into the terminal and press Enter. There’s a pictoral guide if you’re doing the verification on Windows still, right here:

    forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=291093

    Let me know if you get stuck!

    ItsComplicated ,

    Thanks. These are the instructions having a time with. I am going to take a break. I think I have just stared at it too long overthinking it!

    wanderingmagus ,

    No problem, and again - if you experience any confusion during the process, just let me know! I also had to get help with installing Linux Mint myself when I first got started.

    ItsComplicated ,

    I am still unable to verify the iso. I installed gnupg but it keeps saying file not found.

    wanderingmagus , (edited )

    Did you make sure that you opened the terminal inside the folder where your iso and txt files are, or at least navigated to that folder after opening the terminal? Basically, it’ll say “file not found” if you run the CertUtil command while not “inside” the folder containing both the iso and the txt files. Same with running the gpg command.

    Usually, if you just open cmd.exe by itself from the searchbar, you’ll see something like this:

    PS C:\Users\your_username>

    If you instead opened the terminal inside the folder, you’ll instead see this:

    PS C:\Users\your_username\Downloads\ISO>

    Or whichever folder your iso and txt files are located in.

    CertUtil and gpg are pretty tunnel-visioned - they can only see stuff that’s in the same folder as they’re being run in, unless you give them specific directions to get to a different location. That’s why it’s easiest and best to have everything in a single folder and open the terminal “inside” that folder.

    Again - all this verification stuff with the terminal is, in my opinion, optional as long as you downloaded from one of the mirrors on the website. But since you still want to do it, this is the easiest way to go about it.

    All the directions are here: forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=291093

    Vittelius , (edited )

    If you don’t want to do that, then you can buy a bootable drive (for example here: www.shoplinuxonline.com/mint21-usb.html)

    Using a different tool to create a bootable drive is just a part of installing any operating system, not just Linux. If you ever need to install windows on a pc that doesn’t have it installed you will see the same process.

    DharkStare ,

    This is what I’m going to have to do as well since my computer isn’t compatible with Win11. The only thing I’m worried about is gaming.

    Kory ,
    @Kory@lemmy.ml avatar

    Depends on what you are playing, but gaming in Linux has come a long way. Some games won’t work due to companies not enabling their (rootkit) “anti-cheats” for Linux, but other than that, there’s more and more games that simply work by the day. Check out www.protondb.com to get an idea of what’s working at the moment.

    DharkStare ,

    I bought a SteamDeck as a way to test and see what works and what doesn’t on Linux. So far all my games have run with no issues.

    I’m likely going to be posting and searching through a lot of Linux forums as Win10 gets closer to EOL.

    nman90 ,

    There are games for me on Windows 11 that won’t run but will just fine on linux, and vice versa. For games that won’t run or run well enough on linux, I have windows dual booted, but that’s all i will use it for. Also I nice little boot U.I. that pops up every time I power on or restart my pc so i can pick which i want to load up.

    SeekPie ,

    Also, ProtonDB might not always be right with their ratings. For example, Dead by Daylight is marked as “Silver” though it’s been working perfectly with no tinkering. I think the ratings take time to improve?

    Kory ,
    @Kory@lemmy.ml avatar

    You might misunderstand how their “ratings” work - they simply collect all reports and when people had trouble with the game before, and gave a negative or “tinkering required” rating, it will show in the overall stats.

    CileTheSane ,
    @CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

    Steam has built in Linux compatibility that you can turn on for all games and has been working great for me. Lutris and Wine provide other compatibility options.

    the16bitgamer ,
    @the16bitgamer@lemmy.world avatar

    I too install Linux Mint, though Fedora Silverblue and Kinote is another good alternative.

    NegativeLookBehind ,
    @NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world avatar

    Wow! Tell me more!

    MushuChupacabra ,
    @MushuChupacabra@lemmy.world avatar

    Linux Mint (or Linux Mint Debian Edition), is one of the most user friendly Linux distributions out there. This is especially so for people used to Windows.

    You can run Mint on a bootable USB drive, fire it up, and get a sense of how it feels running on your home setup. I’d highly recommend trying this with a few different Linux distros, to find one that you like.

    NegativeLookBehind ,
    @NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world avatar

    What a beautiful thing

    PopShark ,

    Jokes aside I heard Fedora is good for gaming

    Yes, seriously lol

    hanrahan ,
    @hanrahan@slrpnk.net avatar

    Arch is it, u know this :)

    shortwavesurfer ,

    Switch to Linux where all accounts are local accounts.

    bionicjoey ,

    Linux supports network accounts of all kinds.

    shortwavesurfer ,

    I didn’t say it didn’t support network accounts, but you have to have a local account set up to sign into those network accounts. You can set up your computer fully without being connected to the internet and it won’t give you grief about it.

    bionicjoey ,

    you have to have a local account set up to sign into those network accounts.

    I’m pretty sure that’s false. You can create an account right from OS install that is backed by something like LDAP (assuming you don’t count the root user as an “Account”)

    sugar_in_your_tea ,

    root doesn’t have to support login either, and I think being able to login is a pre-requisite to being “an account.”

    tea ,

    Linux supports network accounts of all kinds.

    They even have a guide for that! learn.microsoft.com/en-us/linux/install

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