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doggle ,

From moondrop?! I have some really cheap iems from them, they’re great

toastal , (edited )

Kinda wild these weren’t really a thing. A lot of these DAP/DACs were already running Android & many folks don’t like carrying a second phone-sized device (my DAP is small on purpose for this… well & my previous phone didn’t haze microSD for extra storage). Was it something to do with complaince for the cell radios?

The big question mark to me would be if they open source those drivers & what not or make any required apps downloadable & sideloadable. I would make something like this my next device if I knew I could flash LineageOS for microG on it & not, you know, lose all the audio stuff that makes it special. A lot of these Chinese brands haven’t even done the bare minimum GPL v2 compliance of releasing their kernels so we would have to see on that front. The ability to control your software is just as important as repairing your hardware.

Pilferjinx ,

Yes. All I want from a phone is to be able to run a custom rom and have decent audio chips. I haven’t been able to justify having a dedicated dap because I hate carrying more than is necessary.

toastal ,

This is not so much as an edorsement or recommendation, but you might check out the DAPs by Shanling or Hidiz if you have coin to spare. They use Linux & don’t publish kernel mods, but they do have inexpensive, very small, lightweight options that may fit your needs. I have one & it has a place to have a dedicate device to not chew thru my phone’s battery as well as function as a high-quality USB DAC in scenarios where you don’t have a jack (like my old laptop) or the DAC is horrible (like in my dock for my laptop).

Mango ,

Well dang. I’m getting it. I’ll sacrifice a decent bit of CPU performance for a phone made with some principles and with the moon audio quality.

TheAnonymouseJoker ,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

It is a very unpolished phone with crashing firmware. Some people on r/headphones reported crashing and forcefully needing to factory reset phone. One Hokage Tea Time reviewer even lost all of his SD card data with a bunch of FLACs on it.

It lacks Google services like Huawei, which is a privacy bonus if you are interested in it.

01189998819991197253 ,
@01189998819991197253@infosec.pub avatar

This is a neat explanation of the purpose of the other jack, in case anyone was wondering.

iopq ,

Yes, but it’s basically placebo if your headphone cable is of a normal length

01189998819991197253 ,
@01189998819991197253@infosec.pub avatar

I wouldn’t say placebo. It’s definitely doing something. I would say it’s unnecessary in most environments, and probably definitely on a mobile phone. But to lift right out of the article:

You may be wondering if balanced audio is “higher quality” than unbalanced — the answer is no. Balanced cabling doesn’t provide a better quality of sound than unbalanced cables. Audio source and the quality of materials in the actual cable’s construction determine sound quality more than anything. However, balanced audio does a better job of eliminating noise, should it exist in your signal. In a case where extraneous noise is present, balanced audio will be clearer than unbalanced audio.

WaterWaiver , (edited )

I wouldn’t say placebo. It’s definitely doing something.

I would say this is still a placebo. Placebos always still do something. A sugar pill tastes sweet and modifies the sugar levels in your blood. The important questions are validity and effectiveness, not whether or not it does something.

Balanced audio will not eliminate noise in most of the circumstances where a headphone user hears noise. There are far more likely sources (the source file itself, DAC limitations, audio amp limitations, external sound from their environment, etc). It will help in some very specific circumstances, but that’s like trying to sell snow chains to all car owners on the planet because you can claim that they improve traction.

If you do work in an environment where changing to balanced headphone signalling helps… why are you working with your head inside an RF hazard zone?

(From page): However, balanced audio does a better job of eliminating noise, should it exist in your signal. In a case where extraneous noise is present

Misleading.

Noise exists in all signals. Balanced audio only “does a better job” in circumstances other than what this product is being sold for. Discussing this at all gives it false merit anyway.

EDIT: Giving this some further thought: balanced and unbalanced signalling is mostly moot when you’re an isolated device with one cable attached. From an RF standpoint you’re not forming both halves of an antenna (dipole or monopole+ground). Electrically they both look extremely similar in this scenario. Your partially conductive human arms waving around will probably couple to RF noise better than the headphone cable.

01189998819991197253 ,
@01189998819991197253@infosec.pub avatar

Ah. Yes. I see your original meaning. I misunderstood what you had meant.

Balanced will reduce noise (in terms of RF noise, of course) significantly better than unbalanced, but the source of noise does need to be far enough away from the capturing device to not affect it directly and, therefore, be able to be negated by the balanced cable. However, the end user (listening to balanced vs unbalanced signal on a mobile phone) won’t be experiencing a difference between the two (IE placebo affect).

Thanks for clarifying!

WaterWaiver ,

Balanced will reduce noise (in terms of RF noise, of course) significantly better than unbalanced,

In this situation I don’t think it will at all.

I don’t think that balanced vs unbalanced is actually electromagnetically that different in this particular configuration (see my edit at the end of above). Things like where the wire is sitting on your body and what pose you are in will probably affect RF noise pickup levels on the headphone wires much more than changing between bal & unbal signalling.

but the source of noise does need to be far enough away from the capturing device to not affect it directly and, therefore, be able to be negated by the balanced cable.

I didn’t get into near-field and far-field effects. I’m not sure that it really matters here, but I might be wrong.

01189998819991197253 ,
@01189998819991197253@infosec.pub avatar

I was going off the few pages I read, including the one I linked. I’m far from an expert in this realm, so, really, I don’t have any substantial argument for or against what either of us are saying. However, filmography, and the related foley artistry, has always intrigued, and I have learned from experience the differences between using a standard jack and an XLR, and I can say that the sound is vastly cleaner with XLR (at least on a set). The secondary jack on this phone seems to be to XLR what USB-microB is to USB-A (again, going off what I’ve read). You do make a lot of sense, though, in your posts, so I may be flat wrong here haha

WaterWaiver ,

learned from experience the differences between using a standard jack and an XLR, and I can say that the sound is vastly cleaner with XLR (at least on a set).

Your experiences were correct, don’t doubt them. That would have been ground-referenced equipment, ie plugged into wires that eventually join a wall. RF interference would interact with that quite differently, unbal vs bal would be quite different.

Thteven ,
@Thteven@lemmy.world avatar

The practical reason people use balanced jacks is because they push more power which allows you to use headphones with lower sensitivity. I have a few pairs myself that would benefit from this, they have relatively low ohm ratings so the high impedance setting on my V60 doesn’t get triggered when I plug them in and they are very quiet.

Aatube ,

Abstruse Goose webcomic. Execs are at a meeting where they learn that the Galaxy S10+ features 5 cameras. They get mad even though they know that Samsung is "overcompensating for something", but decide to try and kick their ass by fitting 11 cameras and 2 vertical USB-A ports on teh back and 4 USB ports on the left side and 6 USB ports on the right side and 1 USB port on the bottom, creating a phone that, when all plugged in from the sides, looks like a fucking spider.

TheAnonymouseJoker ,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

SpiderPhone, perfect gadget for SpiderMan.

AngryCommieKender ,

Reminds me of the “therapy spider AI,” in Questionable Content.

01189998819991197253 ,
@01189998819991197253@infosec.pub avatar

A bit of excessive, I know, but I would love a 6.35mm jack, too.

TheAnonymouseJoker ,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

Tell me how you have audio tubes and $10K DAC/AMP at home without telling me you have all that.

01189998819991197253 ,
@01189998819991197253@infosec.pub avatar

Hahaha!! I wish! Actually, I have old equipment that only takes the 6.35mm TS (and a couple TRS) connectors, and I don’t like adaptors, as they almost always noticeably reduce audio quality.

WaterWaiver ,

I don’t like adaptors, as they almost always noticeably reduce audio quality.

Huh? 3.5mm to 6.35mm adapters, the small bits of metal and plastic, or are you talking about something else?

01189998819991197253 ,
@01189998819991197253@infosec.pub avatar

Yeah. Maybe I just bought the super cheap ones? Not sure. I ended up getting a 3.5 to 6.35 cable, and haven’t had a problem since.

WaterWaiver ,

That’s really weird o.o The adapters should just be metal and plastic, same as the cables.

Maybe they have a really weak connection internally, ie high resistance? This might lead to both lower volume in the headphones and (in some circumstances) higher noise, especially if it’s an unstable resistor.

I recommend starting a shelf of cursed items :)

01189998819991197253 ,
@01189998819991197253@infosec.pub avatar

shelf of cursed items

I love this idea, and am going to start doing this hahahha!

WaterWaiver ,

This could end up competitive.

Invite people to your house, give them a tour and briefly mention the shelf before scurrying them on. Watch their faces contort but don’t give them the opportunity to ask any questions.

EDIT: I have a vague guess at what could have gone wrong with your adaptor. It might have had OK L and R contacts but a broken G contact. You would then hear the difference between the L and R channels, which most often sounds like garbage. Music would be weird (entire instruments/vocals disappear) and mono audio would be silent or near-silent (so you’ll have to turn it up a lot and will hear noise).

01189998819991197253 ,
@01189998819991197253@infosec.pub avatar

Hahaha!! Like a random red door on the back wall of the basement. “That’s just ‘the door’. Nothing to worry about, as long as you keep your distance” and quickly walk them off with no further explanation. Hahahahaha

That makes sense. I used to get the adapters from a local shop where I used to live, and they were cheap cheap. Converted to USD, they were probably around $0.10 a piece. He gave them out free when you purchased headphone. After a while I got tired of the static and low sound quality, so I just got a cable (3.5-6.35) on ebay, and it’s been fine since.

barsoap , (edited )

The quality of random no-brand audio cables, connectors, adapters etc. tends to be right-out atrocious. There’s technically going to be metal in there but that “nice”, thick headphone cable that came with those cheap headphones (and even some decent ones, like AKG K240s) is going to consist mostly of insulation, not conductors. Plastic is quite a bit cheaper than copper.

You can get ok jack adapters for 80ct but honestly I wouldn’t trust that thing if I didn’t trust Thomann. Usually I’d be looking for Rean when wanting a cheap one but they’re apparently not in stock. And I kinda doubt Neutrik or Hicon even produce them if you’re spending five bucks on a 3.5mm jack you’re not using adapters, you’re soldering the exact cable you need.

Oh. Back to resistance: Doesn’t really matter audio quality doesn’t care it’s still the same AC signal just with less amplitude which you can fix with the volume knob, You’re looking for impedance and material boundaries have a habit of being bad for it, as well as signal quality as parts of the signal will propagate through the boundary and parts will reflect. For more information ask an actual electrical engineer I merely wrote an A in a course I had to take and can tell the hot end of a soldering iron from the cold one (it’s the one with the cable).

WaterWaiver ,

Oh. Back to resistance: Doesn’t really matter audio quality doesn’t care it’s still the same AC signal just with less amplitude

Only for ideal resistors.

Resistors are noise sources. Intentional resistors tend not to be too bad (and probably won’t be heard in this situation unless you have super-high-impedance headphones, perhaps 10’s of K), but unintentional resistors (eg corroded unstable metal contacts inside a plastic part) can be atrocious.

A few things to add to this:

(1) If your resistor acts even slightly like a diode then you will encounter partially rectified RF signals (more noise yay). Metal oxides between metals can do this, eg if the connector has crimped two badly-plated bits of metal together.

(2) Plasticisers in some plastics can leak out, causing corrosion on unseen internal metal parts.

(Of course linking all of this together is just conjecture, the causes of Moss’ bad adaptors might be something completely different)

flubba86 , (edited )

Personally I only use smartphones with dual XLR output and optical SPDIF.

01189998819991197253 ,
@01189998819991197253@infosec.pub avatar

Hahaha!! And I thought I was being excessive haha!

cmnybo ,

Of course it doesn’t support band 71, which is the only 5G band I can get at home.

DAMunzy ,

Dual headphone jacks. You “hear” that, Fairphone‽

TheAnonymouseJoker ,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

No, they cannot hear you over their UnFair™ wireless earbuds and greenwashing.

lud ,

I must have missed that. Could you explain what you mean?

TheAnonymouseJoker ,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

Fairphone removed headphone jack from 5 model and introduced wireless earbuds simultaneously. It may be to make more money, but they firstly price the phone high enough, and secondly it only exists to buy in Europe. They are introducing it to USA. Removing sustainable features like 3.5 jack is a joke on their campaigning.

lud ,

They have released wireless earbuds with replaceable batteries recently which is pretty cool.

TheAnonymouseJoker ,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

…and just like that you have now another device whose battery needs to be replaced by a specific company.

lud ,

By a specific company? You can and are supposed to do it yourself.

TheAnonymouseJoker ,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

And the batteries? Bet you can source them from a company other than Fairphone, right?

lud ,

Yes, the batteries in the fairbuds are standard LIR1054 which you can buy from loads of places. Not sure about the case but its bigger capacity so it doesn’t need to be replaced as often if ever.

Either way third parties could and probably will make replacement batteries for the case because there is nothing stopping them unlike apple devices. And the battery is still extremely easy to replace.

I agree that a 3,5 mm jack would be nice, but you are overreacting.

TheAnonymouseJoker ,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

A 3.5 jack would not be merely nice. The removal of it means Fairphone does not give a shit about sustainability, because the 3.5 jack is probably the oldest standard technology (100+ years old) that we are using in current times.

If the wireless buds are repairable, good. But it does not mean Fairphone becomes another Apple as far as ports are concerned.

lud ,

Again, that’s a bit of an overreaction imo, but sure.

tetris11 ,
@tetris11@lemmy.ml avatar

I genuinely thought the wired vs wireless earphone debate was over, and wireless won by a landslide.

All the phones I have ever owned have audio jacks, but I use them rarely, and prefer the convenience of putting my phone down to walk around and do tasks, than having it strapped to my side like I’m a tourist on a bad audio guide.

I can’t be the only one who after holding out for so long, now relents that, yes, wireless headphones are convenient for a vast majority of use cases.

TheAnonymouseJoker ,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

Wireless never won. Wireless have nearly zero repairability. Wireless earbud buyers are often too tech illiterate to repair and solder devices themselves, and they will refuse to acknowledge the longevity of wired devices as long as they can keep consuming new mainstream TWS buds every 2 years. Not to mention, crap latency and dogshit audio quality or astronomical prices.

tetris11 ,
@tetris11@lemmy.ml avatar

I’ve been wearing the same Sony plugs for 6 years now. Latency and quality is fine over short distances, and over long distances (something wired can’t do…) the LC3 codec does a fantastic job keeping the signal and quality

I feel like you and I inhabit different universes

TheAnonymouseJoker ,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

A tiny wireless DAC that allows to plug in dedicated 3.5/4.4/6.3 audio gear is going to provide far superior audio quality and latency than the readymade mainstream solution. It brings with it repairability, customisability and longevity as well.

Which Sony earbuds of yours are these, that have magically not needed a battery change in 6 years?

tetris11 ,
@tetris11@lemmy.ml avatar

Oh no doubt, and this is definitely an audiophile’s phone. I just hope the benefit of the slight gains in quality outweigh the (imo) massive hassle of having the phone tethered to body.

My buds are sony wf-1000x3, been using them for years. Charge them once a day, use them pretty much all the time, no issues.

toastal ,

It was the 4 that removed the jack not 5—despite user complaints about wanting it to return on the next model. But yeah, big L dropping the jack.

TheAnonymouseJoker ,
@TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml avatar

My bad, I stopped caring about that company after 4 did that, and only kept up until 3+ model. Forgot if it was 4 or 5. Only thing I know since is their 8 year guarantee for security patches. But taking away a 100+ year standard audio port to sell wireless buds when your phone costs over double for budget midrange specs is bad.

toastal ,

I had an inkling of hope the 5 would bring it back after so many complaints. Instead they launched wireless earbud & doubled down on it. Dead to me too.

wingsfortheirsmiles ,

I love the phone despite the large size but can’t get GPS working in apps

ripcord ,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

That’s … a pretty significant issue.

Rai ,

I would never be able to go anywhere

Cheradenine ,

That would be a bonus for me. I never use it.

iopq ,

Why, you drive a cab for a living so when you get directions you know exactly how to get there from memory?

Cheradenine ,

No, I do not. It is possible to get around without GPS, has been for millennia. I don’t need it, don’t want it, if you do that’s fine.

Rubidoo ,

Dual usbc when?

SuperSpruce ,

ROG phones have this and a headphone jack.

fatalError ,

They also fail the jerry rig durability test. They are very bulky too.

potustheplant ,

They’re also from asus. Big no-no

fatalError ,

Meh, I was actually planning on getting a zenfone, but the limited software updates kinda put me off

potustheplant ,

Yeah, that has a locked bootloader and even though they promised you’d be able to unlock it, they never provided a way to do so. There’s at least 1 case in which a user sued them over it and asus had to reimburse them.

Not to mention all of the issues with their pc hardware. They’re a shit company and everyone should avoid them.

fatalError ,

It was the last <6" flagship smartphone. Not sure what to replace my s10e with. The battery is failing and I didn’t get any security updates in a year. I could unlock the bootloader and put a custom rom on, but that blows the e-fuse in the SoC so bye-bye decent camera and possibly mobile banking too

potustheplant ,

Sony Xperia 5V?

Don’t know about that camera stuff but mobile banking doesn’t have any issues. I have the Sony phone I mentioned above, I rooted it and it has the grand total of 0 issues.

fatalError ,

Kinda pricey when you look at what competition offers in that same range

potustheplant ,

For example? I mean, it is expensive but there are literally no other phones with the same chipset, an sd card slot and a headphone jack. Vote with your wallet, etc.

Tbf, I also got it for about $600 so in my case it wasn’t that expensive.

fatalError ,

I wish it was 600 when it came out. In Europe it was 900€ and still is in many places, although it can be found around 800€.

As for features around the same price, for example Samsung s24 offers 7 years of software support compared to 4 at most I guess from Sony and 1 generation newer snapdragon.

But the s24 has several drawbacks for me: shitty bloated software likely with e-fuse blown if u try to root it, larger screen (6.2"), crappy underscreen fingerprint sensor(I love side-mounted capacitive), no jack, no sd.

I guess I will be stuck with the s10e for little while longer.

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

2 headphone jacks is definitely a choice. I wonder if there’s at least one use case for it in 2024 though

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

It’s aimed strictly at audiophiles. The extra jack is a 4.4mm jack that’s more common in things like DACs.

An example:

nobleaudio.com/…/dac-amp-with-4-4mm-pentaconn-out…

Pair a phone like this with a pair of Sennheiser’s and a bunch of FLAC files and you might have a really good time.

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

Oh so the jacks are different? Ok then. I thought the other sizes are dead or only used in niche $100k+ equipment

NightAuthor ,

No I’ve got a $70 usb/bluetooth DAC w 3.5 and 2.5 jacks

PraiseTheSoup ,

but not 4.4mm which is apparently what the specialty jack on this phone is

oxjox ,
@oxjox@lemmy.ml avatar

Second sentence:

It has a 4.4mm headphone jack to go with the more conventional 3.5mm type.

4.4mm is for balanced audio output. This audience for this device is audiophiles.

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

Well idk anything about audiophile stuff. I know I can’t afford to even look at such tech lol

sethadam1 ,

You’d be surprised. Plenty of great in ear monitors that are sub $100 and use balanced 4.4mm jacks.

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

What is an in ear monitor? Is it like a medical device?

Reawake9179 ,

It’s only a fancy name for speaker/headphones which make them sound more professionally, there’s a chance but no guarantee that they are tuned more neutral in sound

njaard ,

Man, this is looking really appealing:

  • Headphone jack!
  • Great global and US network support
  • "Honest" marketing of its cameras (lol!)
  • Huge :(

Now the only thing that’s missing is if it’s reasonably easily rootable, so I’ll keep an eye on this phone.

user224 , (edited )

Here’s specs: liliputing.com/moondrop-miad-01-smartphone-with-h…

Seems nice. I just wish it had removable battery, like phones used to, so I could carry a spare around, like I used to with Sony Ericsson W200i.
Also dedicated dual SIM + MicroSD instead of hybrid.

Just got an idea, the Galaxy Flip has 2 batteries. Small one, and large one. What if there was a small one built-in, and a larger swappable one. You could then hot-swap the batteries like with some ThinkPads (those with internal + external battery).

cm0002 ,

Oh look, a “specialty” android device with actual decent specs. Someday something like the Linux phone or fair phone or any of the other “specialty” phones to catch my attention over the years will get it together and do the same lol

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

Unfortunately making the battery removable will make the phone considerably thicker and probably easier to break which is not what most of the users want

mobius_slip ,

The Galaxy S5 was the last of the mainline series to have a removable battery, and was thinner than the S9 which came out four years later. It also had a pretty good water resistance rating.

Any “downsides” to a replaceable battery are a myth.

DAMunzy ,

Eh, thicker than without is true when evaluating against itself.

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

Well also the internals and the battery itself is more loose so it’s less resistant to high G-forces

ShepherdPie ,

I’m assuming you must be referring to modern phones here right? I never needed a case on my phone until we started getting into S8 territory when phones became incredibly flimsy and fragile. My Note 4 was plastic and aluminum and survived tons of drops. Same with the LG V20 I replaced it with. New phones are required to have a bulky case added on, which defeats the purpose of making them thin and using glass construction. Also modern phones are way thicker than the older phones with replaceable batteries even without a case on them.

pearable ,

I will say my Fairphone is a good bit thicker than my work Iphone but honestly it’s not a significant downside for me. The weight is a bigger deal but still not worth the trade-off for a phone I can be confident I can repair myself

emergencyfood ,

Iirc, removeable batteries make phones harder to break. If you drop them, the back cover and battery come off, reducing the shock on the display.

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

Breaking a modern screen by dropping the phone on a flat surface is not that easy. What can break more often is the electrical circuit between the battery and the phone (causing it to force shutdown that can lead to potential software instabilities), the back cover and sometimes the display flat cable thing

timlyo ,

Fairphone has a removable battery pack, it's pretty handy.

user224 ,

But no headphone jack.

tedu ,

Every phone can have two batteries if you just get a battery pack.

ChaoticNeutralCzech ,

A powerbank is another step in energy conversion and the cables are annoying.

ShepherdPie ,

Awesome another decent phone outside of the big 3 that yet again doesn’t support TMobile’s bands. Just my luck…

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