There have been multiple accounts created with the sole purpose of posting advertisement posts or replies containing unsolicited advertising.

Accounts which solely post advertisements, or persistently post them may be terminated.

[DISCUSSION] In TNG's "The Most Toys" (s3e22), did Data lie about firing the disruptor?

Episode premise:

Kivas Fajo is determined to add the unique Data to his prized collection of one-of-a-kind artefacts and, staging Data’s apparent death, he imprisons him aboard his ship.

We know that Data is later logically coerced to lie in “Clues” to protect the crew, but this appears to be a decision all his own. Or did he not in fact actually fire the weapon?

BradleyUffner ,

He didn’t lie; he didn’t answer the question.

Windex007 ,

Riker didn’t actually ask a question, he just made a statement.

CodexArcanum ,

The idea that Data completely lacks emotion was always hollow to me. People don’t especially understand what emotions are or what it means to feel them. I think we lie to ourselves quite a lot that our decisions are “purely rational” even though everything in our environments influences those decisions.

Who hasn’t made a bad call because they were: tired, hungry, over heated, angry, or otherwise being affected by emotions? Is hunger an emotion? When Data decides that he will practice music today, is that part of an elaborate schedule he has planned years in advance, or is that what he “felt like” doing that day? Perhaps a long string of logic could explain why today is a good day to Vi-olen, but how is that different from the rationale I could put together for why I made a decision?

So what I’m saying is: I blame the writers! I think by season 3 they’d explored a little of the possibilities with Data about what humanity is and what it means to work with an android, but I don’t know that they ever really got a handle on what it would look like for a being of pure reason to emergently develop emotions.

Look at chatgpt and how readily it convinces people that there is a thinking being in there. When an LLM says “I’m happy to see you today, what can I do for you?” do we take that as a canned response with no real feeling behind it, or do we assume that because it can say it is happy, that it must be feeling happy?

Do we get much perspective on Data’s interiority? Perhaps he experiences a world of emotions we can’t even comprehend but has no understanding of how to express these things? His art work is called out as being soulless and copy-cat at various times. But also Data has a cat, and a daughter, and many friends. He tells bad jokes. It seems like there’s some kind of feelings going on in there, even if it comes out in his actions and not in his art.

grue ,

Data: “Perhaps something occurred during transport, Commander”

Riker: “Like what?”

Data: “Like I tried to shoot the motherfucker but you beamed me away too quick.”

RizzRustbolt ,

O’brien: “Bitches be crazy…”

Bishma ,
@Bishma@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

We know he’s figured out bloodlust by Generations.

https://www.reactiongifs.com/r/dstfp.gif

Cagi ,

Anyone who thinks he didn’t fire with the intention to kill Fajo needs to go back to English class and learn how to read some basic literature. It’s like the end of the Sopranos. People’s wishes for happy endings and perfect Hollywood stories blind then to the work the writers went through to tell you (rather obviously, there isn’t much room for debate among people who know how to interpret stories) that yes, Data can kill an unarmed man in the right circumstances, or yes, Tony Soprano’s brains are splattered all over his family. It’s not a happier story but it’s a better one with actual meaning and has a more lasting impact.

ummthatguy OP ,
@ummthatguy@lemmy.world avatar

I believe that Data has it in him to make that decision, I’m mostly calling out the ambiguity of the scene as it played out. And yeah, Tony met a gruesome but earned end.

_stranger_ ,

Data’s the science officer. He could probably build a phaser from scrap blindfolded. Him saying maybe “something” happened during transport is clearly a deflection. I bet he thought about this moment when he discovered Lore and all Lore had done.

1stTime4MeInMCU ,

Why did Fajo believe data couldn’t kill? We see data blasting baddies all the time

pizza_the_hutt ,

Contrary to popular belief, there is nothing in Data’s programing that would prevent him from doing “bad” things like lying or killing. He has free will just as much as any other Starfleet officer.

Data is much more human than you might guess at first. He is more akin to a human on the autism spectrum than a robot with hard-coded programming.

ummthatguy OP ,
@ummthatguy@lemmy.world avatar

Absolutely. Rewatching the series in full as an adult made it more apparent that Data was always closer to his goal than he could comprehend. Just had trouble adjusting to social “norms” more than others.

CptEnder ,

Yup exactly. He just lacked emotional subroutines (at first) and the hardware to process that. But he doesn’t need emotions to kill. He is in fact capable of using lethal force (First Contact), he just has an ethical subroutine that prevents killing (Descent I, II) unless in defense of others, himself, or The Federation. Which would fall under his logical subroutines.

Similar in a way to Chief Engineer Hemmer who will not use violence (Memento Mori) unless in an act of preserving life. The means to defend is part of the training of a Starfleet officer.

themeatbridge ,

Did he lie? Or did he give a vague statement that is necessarily true?

teft ,
@teft@lemmy.world avatar

Data is an Aes Sedai confirmed.

Draegur ,

WoT references! a rare treasure from a long lost age (which may hopefully come again…)

teft ,
@teft@lemmy.world avatar

The only community I truly miss from reddit is wetlander humor.

HuntressHimbo ,

There is a wetlander humor but it is very low activity

teft ,
@teft@lemmy.world avatar

Sorry, should have said an active wetlander humor community. I’m actually a subscriber on that community.

HuntressHimbo ,

The question is what Ajah he would end up in. The Whites, Grays, and Browns would all want him, hut he might be a Blue at heart

Bishma ,
@Bishma@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

O’Brien deactivated the weapon, so something did happen during transport.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • [email protected]
  • random
  • lifeLocal
  • goranko
  • All magazines
    •