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If Lemmy and Mastodon continues to get popular, we will eventually get Instance wars.

If the descentralization of social networks continue, we will have to prepare for the eventual rise of the instances wars, where people will start to fight about which instance is better and which one is weird to be in and so on, but that’s for the future of us all.

SINapps ,

He’s got an instance with a nail in it…

EgyptUrnash ,
@EgyptUrnash@pawb.social avatar

I have been running a Mastodon instance since like 2016/17 and this has been quietly happening for the entire time I’ve been on the fediverse. (I can’t check the exact date right now as I’m in the middle of upgrading it.)

Do you want to be in the Anime Girl Who Posts Nazi Memes Fediverse? How about the Queer Furry Fediverse? Or maybe you’d rather be in the Mocking Shitposts Fediverse? Perhaps you want the Everyone Has A Photo Of A Human And Thinks Federating With Facebook’s Activitypub Is Actually A Good Idea Fediverse? Or how about the TERF/Gender-Critical Fediverse? Or the “Standalone” Social Site That Is Actually A Fediverse Instance With Federation Disabled And The Credits Removed In Violation Of The Source License?

Some of these Fediverses will happily talk with others. Some of them will rapidly defederate from others as soon as they encounter a place that clearly belongs to a Fediverse they are incompatible with. Some of them quickly get defederated from the Fediverses they are incompatible with. Some of them look at the tag, some to keep aware of places worth pre-emptively blocking to make a chill place to talk, some to look for fellow people who have been cast out of someone else’s chill zones.

Eke ,

well said

njtrafficsignshopper ,

Is this a bad thing? I thought kind of, curating who you associate with is one of the benefits

EgyptUrnash ,
@EgyptUrnash@pawb.social avatar

Not at all, I am very happy to be able to preemptively keep Terf Fedi and 4Chan Forever Fedi and all those other Fediverse the fuck out of my little corner of Queer Furry Fedi. Throwing everyone into one giant discussion forum and pushing them to fight with each other because that’s what keeps the ad impressions coming is not an experience I care to return to.

Realistically though I can’t be bothered to engage in “fighting about which instance is better to be in” though, I know which one is better for me and if you think that one is a shitty place for you to be then I am pleased to have you stay in whatever place you like as long as you don’t try to make the place I like stop existing or change to fit your desires.

Takina_sOldPairTM ,
@Takina_sOldPairTM@lemmy.world avatar

Gardens Wars, more like

geekosaur ,

Don’t we kinda already have them?

Takina_sOldPairTM ,
@Takina_sOldPairTM@lemmy.world avatar

bombastic side eyes at Beehaw

dottedgreenline ,
@dottedgreenline@lemmy.ml avatar

I truly hope this type of hierarchical thinking can stay fun and not create the kind of grating pomposity that pervades every bloody animalistic thing. I want us to grow beyond childish competitiveness.

MiddleWeigh ,
@MiddleWeigh@lemmy.world avatar

Ladder of evolution speed run commence

Salvo ,
@Salvo@aussie.zone avatar

The instance that someone is hosted on is (almost) completely irrelevant to which communities they can join.

I am in a local region instance but can still access any communities on Lemmy.world, Lemmy.ml and even other federated platforms like kbin.social

I may be restricted on what I can do in each of those instances; it there is some disagreement between Aussie.zone and sh.itjust.works I may not be able to post about camping to my preferred community.

ghostermonster ,

I’m hoping for professional hosting and established communities.

lemming007 , (edited )

The biggest problem with lemmy and decentralization right now is that for optimal performance you need to spread out the load relatively evenly between instances. The problem is that users tend to go where other users are (otherwise why go there) and that naturally leads to clumping on one or few instances which causes it to overload.

The way to solve it is to avoid having generic “anything goes” instances and instead have instances be focused on a specific topic. For example, have gaming instance, a personal finance/investing instance, all things home ownership and improvement instance, etc. You can have multiple communities per instance as long as they stay within the same general topic. This way users will naturally spread out by subscribing to different instances based on topics they’re interested in. And that will solve the performance issue we’re seeing with lemmy.world or other popular instances.

Zyansheep ,

Another way to solve the issue is to have users and communities be instance-independent where the instances only provide storage for communities and users they want to support.

lemming007 ,

Where would user information be stored?

SpaceAape ,

This wouldnt be as much of as issue if Lemmy had better support for connecting with other instances and their communities.

Migillope ,

Would this require you to switch between instances to view all the content you wish to follow? That doesn’t seem very appealing as a user.

Chuckle_Puck ,

I am subscribed to Ukraine on sopuli.xyz and memes in lemmy.ml and a few others on Lemmy.world and they all show up in my feed, so I’m now more confused. Am I viewing several instances or not? Lmao

mtb ,

You are as long as they agree to federate with each other (which they obviously are if they’re in your feed)

Migillope , (edited )

So what is the point of congregating on a general purpose instance? I ask this because of the snippet from the root comment:

The problem is that users tend to go where other users are (otherwise why go there)

If everything is visible from any (federated) instance, why not switch once you encounter slow down? In my comment, I was just clarifying that I understood the premise.

Migillope ,

I also see these when sorting by All in lemmy.world, for instance (no pun intended). I’m just making sure I am not confused. Sorry if I confused you in the process!

lemming007 , (edited )

No, you can see all the content from all instances you’re subscribed to, as long your instance admin hasn’t defederated from them.

Migillope ,

Right, I think this was the potential concern I was vaguely remembering.

CatfishSushi ,

I’m pretty much brand new to lemmy but the thought of having to switch instances to see cooking conversations after conversing about Raspberry Pi projects in a different instance just seems unwieldy. But I guess as long as my instances are all federating with each other I don’t need to switch instances. I’m a technical guy but this needs to be easier for joe sixpack or it’s not going to catch on. And if it doesn’t catch on there’s going to be less interesting content…

lemming007 , (edited )

Correct, as long as the instance your account is in federated with all other instances you’re subscribed to, you don’t have to switch accounts.

Now, defederation is another issue if you want to see the widest possible amount of content. What’s going to happen is ideologically opposed instances are going to defederate each other, so left-wing instances are going to defederate right-wing ones and vice versa. So if you’re a user who wants to see the content from both sides, you’ll have to create multiple accounts in each “cluster” of federated instances. It’s kind of annoying to be honest, it makes it hard to discover communities just because your instance admin decided to defederate from them and encourages echo chambers, but it it’s the best we’ve got.

geolaw ,

I wonder if specialised instances are easier to administer? If the admins are familiar with the instances specific subject matter, jargon and memes, it might make their job easier perhaps?

lemming007 ,

I agree

SomeOtherUsername ,
@SomeOtherUsername@lemmynsfw.com avatar

Interesting to hear this from a dirty lemmy.fmhy.ml-er! 😈

altima_neo ,
@altima_neo@lemmy.zip avatar

Those tankies ain’t getting me!

astral_avocado ,
@astral_avocado@programming.dev avatar

Only real motherfuckers post on general communities from their lemmynsfw account

OutrageousUmpire ,

Absolutely. I don’t think that’s a bad thing.

What I do worry about somewhat is multiple forks of the codebase that differ so much as to cause bugs when instances try to interoperate.

thesanewriter ,
@thesanewriter@vlemmy.net avatar

My personal hope is that the ActivityPub standard prevents this from happening. After all, I’ve seen decent federation between Lemmy and KBin and they’re entirely different platforms, nevermind a fork of the same software.

doopen ,

What if there was an app that let you log in to multiple lemmy accounts at once, aggregated the lot into one seamless feed, and used the relevant account for each interaction? Maybe even going as far as to automatically cross-post any submission to duplicate communities and aggregate that too.

MisterFrog ,
@MisterFrog@lemmy.world avatar

This would be the best of all worlds. Instances get to choose who to federate with, users get to choose want instances to use.

Sign me up.

credo ,

@doopen @macisr I’m not sure why you would need multiple accounts actually. (Posted from mastodon).

credo ,

Would an app that pulls directly from each server (anonymously) or an app that pulls from dedicated servers (while logged in/subbed) be better? The first is more efficient but the instance owners likely won’t be [financially] supported, while the latter requires duplication and is prone to defederation issues. In the end I suspect overcoming defederation will be a significant design goal of third party apps.

grysbok ,
@grysbok@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

I’ve got multiple accounts because I have my main (this one) and an account on feddit.uk. The account on feddit.uk exists because I wanted to make a very UK-niche community on there, and I believe you need an account on an instance to make a community on that instance. I could give up my feddit.uk account now, but it’s nice to keep around in case my main instance goes down for maintenance or some such.

21racecar12 ,

Use wefwef.app

Flemmy ,

I’m actually working on this haha.

It’s definitely a v2 feature, but it’s in the works

razza856 ,

so the owners and mods of instances will have to compete to provide a good experience. I don’t see a problem with this

flashmedallion ,
@flashmedallion@lemmy.nz avatar

Who does that select for though.

Those with the most time? The most money? The most aggressive approach?
Competition doesn’t tend to produce holistic quality; only efficiency.

DrYazman ,

Yeah, I don’t think instances being competitive with each other would be good for the culture. It’ll just produce isolationism, elitism & hostility.

Sir_Simon_Spamalot ,

How about a red-blue team style hacking tournament, but battle royale?

meanmon13 ,

Then the Highlander games will begin.

toasteranimation ,
@toasteranimation@lemmy.world avatar

crowd decides with their feet

souperk ,

What’s the Gentoo equivalent of an instance?

AeonFelis ,

Building a CLI ActivityPub client from source.

toasteranimation , (edited )
@toasteranimation@lemmy.world avatar

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