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cecilkorik ,
@cecilkorik@lemmy.ca avatar

Matrix and its implementations like Synapse have a very intimidating architecture (Iā€™d go as far as to call most of the implementations somewhat overengineered) and the documentation ranges from inconsistent to horrific. I ran into this particular situation myself, Fortunately this particular step youā€™re overthinking it. You can use any random string you want. It doesnā€™t even have to be random, just as long as what you put in the config file matches. Itā€™s basically just a temporary admin password.

Matrix was by far the worst thing Iā€™ve ever tried to self-host. Itā€™s a hot mess. Good luck, I think youā€™re close to the finish line.

Flax_vert OP ,

I still have to sort out having a different server name to the access name so I can use the domain as well. Do I just put a field into the config like the rest? Can it go anywhere?

Flax_vert OP ,

Ok now itā€™s asking me to serve a ā€œ.well_knownā€ file likeā€¦ How?

Flax_vert OP ,

Ah, that goes on my main server. Iā€™m learning.

Batbro ,

Itā€™s also optional, my first setup I just pointed to the matrix subdomain

u_tamtam ,
@u_tamtam@programming.dev avatar

Matrix seemed interesting right until I got to self hosting it. Then, getting to know it from up close, and the absolute trainwreck that the protocol is, made me love XMPP. Matrix has no excuse for being so messy and fragile at this point. You do you, but I decided that it isnā€™t worth my sysadmin time (especially when something like ejabberd is practically fire and forget).

Swedneck ,
@Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

funnily thereā€™s anā€¦ ansible i think? project that makes selfhosting synapse easy as fuck, you basically just go ā€œansible deploy synapseā€ or whatever the syntax is and it does almost everything for you.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

Hereā€™s some more of the owl, the official docs: element-hq.github.io/ā€¦/config_documentation.html#ā€¦

So add this to your matrix config:

registration_shared_secret: <PRIVATE STRING>

Iā€™m guessing this string can be whatever you want it to be.

But yeah, I agree in general, some of the docs can be pretty opaque. For example, I wanted to configure NextCloud w/ Collabora in Docker, and I kept getting errors when trying to do what a few sites recommended. I ended up figuring it out, but only through trial and error. Iā€™m going to go through the same pain this weekend when I try out ownCloud Infinite Scale up and running to compare.

EmoPolarbear ,
@EmoPolarbear@lemmy.ca avatar

I had very similar experiences with OCIS. Got it all set up following the quick start guide, found extremely odd and unacceptable behaviour with storage space ballooning, start troubleshooting and find ā€œoh you had to do this, this and this manually, itā€™s in the docsā€ It is in the docs, but never referenced by any other part of the docs. Because why would you mention the thing that the admin must manually set up in 100% of installs in your setup guide?

Anyway Iā€™ve become that guy ranting on the internet that I donā€™t want to be. So just so you donā€™t suffer as much as I did; you have to create scheduled tasks via cron or your preference of scheduler to clean your uploads folder and data blobs. This also did not fix my specific issue and I ended up giving up on OCIS and sticking to Nextcloud.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

Huh, thanks!

Iā€™m going to run both in parallel for a month or so before trying to get my SO to use it so I can better estimate the WAF. So far, NextCloud is good enough, but itā€™s kinda slow (and I have Redis configured) despite being on pretty beefy hardware (Ryzen 1700 w/ 16GB RAM). I really hate PHP, so Iā€™d prefer a project I can contribute to if needed. I worked w/ Go for almost 10 years, so OCIS would be a natural fit, but Iā€™d still contribute patches for PHP if that really was the best tool for the job. But Iā€™m not going to get involved unless the project already does what I need (my contributions would be for smaller bug fixes).

But yeah, the OCIS docs look kinda mediocre from the little Iā€™ve read of them. But at least I donā€™t need to mess w/ PHP config most likely and can hopefully just forward HTTP requests to it.

EmoPolarbear ,
@EmoPolarbear@lemmy.ca avatar

The move from php to go and the slowness of NC is what attracted me to the project. But Iā€™m going to wait a bit longer until weā€™re flush with 3rd party setup guides cause I simply do not have the time to wade through their docs.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

Yup, thatā€™s why I started w/ NextCloud. It was painful enough getting Collabora working with NC, so hopefully OCIS is easier now that I know my Collabora setup at least works.

douglasg14b ,
@douglasg14b@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah thatā€™s the problem is guessing what they meant.

ExcessShiv ,

Yeah the documentation (if it even exists) of most projects is usually clearly written by people intimately familiar with the project and then never reviewed to make sure it makes sense for people unfamiliar with it. But writing good detailed documentation is also really hard, especially for a specialist because many nontrivial things are trivial to them and they believe what theyā€™re writing is thorough and well explained even though it actually isnā€™t.

AstralPath ,

The mistake is the assumption of a certain level of end user knowledge.

AlexanderESmith ,

It's easy to forget what other people don't innately know (or can intuit).

Semi_Hemi_Demigod ,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

You have to assume some level of end user knowledge, otherwise every piece of documentation would start with ā€œWhat a computer doesā€ and ā€œHow to turn your computer on.ā€

Iā€™ve found the best practice is to list your assumptions at the top of the article with links to more detailed instructions.

Flax_vert OP ,

I do agree, manies have I found documentation saying ā€œmake a fresh install of Raspbianā€ as if Iā€™m using the computer for this single issue

(Disclaimer: I am not running matrix on a Raspberry Pi)

vividspecter ,

Another case is listing a huge number of steps to do some task, without acting describing what the end goal for each set of instructions is (common in ā€œhow toā€ guides, and especially ones that involve a GUI).

This means that less technical users donā€™t really understand what is going on and are just following steps in a rote way, and it wastes the time of technical users since they probably know how to achieve each goal already.

GBU_28 ,

Whyā€™s that a mistake? Not everything is built for a novice

Tja ,

I agree with this. When I publish my code, it is documented for someone in my field with around my level of knowledge. I assume you know DNS, I assume you know what a vector is, I assume you know what a dht is, I assume you know what O(log n) is.

Iā€™m not writing a CS50 course, Iā€™m helping you use the code I wrote.

Might be different for software like libre office which is supposed to be used by anyone, but most software on earth is built with other developers in mind.

sugar_in_your_tea ,

Thatā€™s why blog posts rock. Most popular projects will have a dozen blog posts for different configurations. For example, when looking to set up NextCloud, I found docs for almost all combinations of the following:

  • Apache and Nginx configuration
  • running through Docker or directly on the host
  • MariaDB and Postgres configs (and SQLite, with proper disclaimers)
  • Collabora and OnlyOffice config

It does take some knowledge of each of the above if you need one of the few configs thatā€™s not available on a blog post, and some of the posts are outdated, but with a bit of searching almost everything is documented by someone on the internet.

This shouldnā€™t be necessary (official docs should be more comprehensive), but at least itā€™s available.

harsh3466 ,

Okay, please point me to the blog posts that helped you with collabora/onlyoffice. Thanks have NEVER been able to get that to work with my nextcloud (currently using the Docker AIO).

sugar_in_your_tea ,

Iā€™m not at the same computer I used to look it up, so I donā€™t have my search history, but I think this one was pretty decent. I donā€™t use Traefik, but the rest describes the important bits w/ docker compose. I donā€™t know much about the AIO image though (I used separate images).

mesamunefire ,

Same with me. I played around with the setup a few times on my local machines. It took quite a bit to get it set up, then I saw an error after a couple of days and gave up. Its easier to just pull down the file and run it locally than use collabora.

cron ,

Iā€™d rather have a great documentation than five different blog posts, where some of them might be outdated, wrong or insecure (and you only find out later).

But yes, they are helpful and easily available for popular software.

teft ,
@teft@lemmy.world avatar

This is why Technical Writer is a full time job.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod ,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

Itā€™s also why the humanities are important. Stemlords who brag about not doing literature classes write terrible documentation.

AlexWIWA ,

My CS major required me to take two upper division English classes and I think they helped me more in my career than my upper division CS classes. People forget that documentation is for ourselves too

Semi_Hemi_Demigod ,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

Iā€™m really thankful that I had a great English teacher in high school, and that my degree required a technical writing class. Being able to write a coherent email got me further in my career than the technical stuff I learned in college.

AlexWIWA ,

I completely agree. Most peer feedbacks that I get mention my documentation. It has helped me so much

HK65 ,

Maybe, just maybe, people have different strengths and weaknesses and cooperating around our differences is what makes us succeed.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod ,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

If you know your weakness is writing documentation, please hire a technical writer.

HK65 ,

Thatā€™s exactly what Iā€™m saying, sorry if it came across somehow askew.

My point was there is no point in competing over whose job is ā€œbetterā€, we should be working together.

vividspecter ,

There is a case to be made that people should be a bit more well rounded in general, and not just find a specific niche.

So non-technical people should still have a decent familiarity with computers and maybe be able to do some very basic coding. And technical people should spend some time working on their written and verbal communication.

Because in both cases, it makes people more effective in their roles.

RobotToaster ,
@RobotToaster@mander.xyz avatar

Most open source projects rely on volunteers, and few technical writers volunteer.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod ,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

Totally agree. And Iā€™d argue that we donā€™t even need technical writers. Even if all people do is correct grammar and spelling mistakes it would be helpful, let alone actually writing docs. Itā€™s one of the easiest ways non-technical folks can get involved with open source projects.

JackbyDev ,

Every time I get stuck on something confusing Iā€™m a README and figure it out I try to submit a patch that makes it more explicit.

GBU_28 ,

If the documentation is sufficient for the intended audience, itā€™s good enough.

floofloof ,

I think this is why the ā€œmy code documents itselfā€ attitude appeals, even though itā€™s almost never enough. Most developers just canā€™t write, nor do they want to.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod ,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

The problem with ā€œItā€™s self-documentingā€ is that there are inevitably questions about what it says, and thereā€™s no additional resources to pull from.

JackbyDev ,

ā€œmy code documents itselfā€ and ā€œno, our CI system doesnā€™t upload the source jars to Artifactory, why?ā€

Tja ,

Humanities are very important. Robots are not yet capable of flipping burgers!

Natanael ,

Robots can definitely flip burgers.

Some can even do it twice!

marcos ,

Thatā€™s just sloppiness.

The information that familiarity gives you is ā€œWTF does this field meansā€, and itā€™s the only thing thatā€™s actually there. How you get a value and how a value is formatted are things no amount of expertise will save you from having to tell the computer, and thus you canā€™t just forget about.

(And let me guess, the software recommended install is a docker image?)

SexualPolytope ,
@SexualPolytope@lemmy.sdf.org avatar
wick ,

Bold of you to assume I know how to read!

hperrin ,

I donā€™t think itā€™s (just) that. Itā€™s also a different skill set to write documentation than code, and generally in these kind of open source projects, the people who write the code end up writing the documentation. Even in some commercial projects, the engineers end up writing the docs, because the higher ups donā€™t see that theyā€™re different skill sets.

bl_r ,

This is why I did a ā€œwalkthrough testā€ when I had to write documentation on this sort of thing. Iā€™m a terrible technical writer, so this shit is necessary for me.

I grabbed my friend who knows enough about computers to attempt this, but not enough about infrastructure to automatically know what I meant when I was too vague.

Took two revisions, but the final document was way easier to follow at the end

AlexWIWA ,

ā€œset all environment variablesā€

mesamunefire ,

More recently its go to discord for the envā€¦no joke.

AlexWIWA ,

My face actually dropped when I read this. I will be so mad if I ever encounter this live.

mesamunefire ,

It sucksā€¦and seems to be catching on. Ive seen a quite a few on GitHub that are now referencing using it instead of the issue tracker.

AlexWIWA ,

That is so depressing. Literally a markdown file in the repo would be a better issue tracker.

Archer ,

Donā€™t forget to run your shell over Discord!

AlexWIWA ,

This is cursed, but also cool. Hijack another platform for your authentication

Natanael ,

Exclusively using Discord as a support channel should get you banned from the internet

JackbyDev ,

Reminds me of the time I asked a question about a Magic: The Gathering card tomy local game storeā€™s Facebook page. The card was Sublime Archangel. I asked what happened if it gave a creature Exalted that already had one. Someone sarcastically replied that it already says it on the card. I was a new player, how was I supposed to parse the phrase ā€œIf a creature has multiple instances of exalted, each triggers separatelyā€? For all I knew that could mean that they didnā€™t stack because they would need to trigger together. I didnā€™t have the vocabulary to understand those things.

I try to remember this when explaining what I might believe are simple concepts to people because that person really upset me.

Presi300 ,
@Presi300@lemmy.world avatar

100% Agree, it feels like most documentation is written in a way that expects you to already know what itā€™s talking aboutā€¦ When itā€™s the documentationā€™s job to teach me about it.

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