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echodot ,

I dislike everything that isn’t Voyager because not enough Neelix. Also, I’m going to look over the comic sans because of the far greater sin of using Papyrus.

wookiestackhouse ,

Is Phlox perhaps Neelix enough?

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

I: Am just not interested in

Star Trek:

  • Discovery
  • SNW
  • Unspecified (specify): They’re prequels.

I already imagined the backstories for the shows I’ve seen… are you not supposed to? A prequel isn’t going to ever line up to how I imagined the backstory (how could it, everyone has a different imagination) so there’s always going to be dissonance with a prequel. Not that I hate these shows, just not interested in them.

Make Star Trek Legacy and move the story forward pls, thx.

ValueSubtracted OP ,
@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website avatar

Sorry, I’ve already imagined the backstory of Discovery Season 3-5. Those centuries are now off-limits.

echodot ,

Yeah well Discovery totally messes with the established timeline. They have a ship that’s more advanced than anything we’ve ever seen on screen before and yet, it’s pre TNG, eh?

It’s not that I don’t like the writing, or the characters, but the least (literally the very least) they could do is have a bit of respect for the source material.

brianary ,

SNW is so good I’d sooner toss TOS if forced to choose (which I’m not). The musical episode is vastly better than Turnabout: Intruder.

usernamefactory ,

Don’t you also imagine future developments of the stories you enjoy? I’m already imagining what Starfleet Academy is going to give us, doesn’t matter if it’s a prequel or not. I just have to set my imagined version aside when the actual show airs.

echodot ,

In my mind Strange New Worlds is in a parallel universe. Not the mirror universe, or the Kelvin universe, but another another universe.

But I want to go back to DS9 darn it. I want to know how that all ends.

Hyphlosion ,
@Hyphlosion@donphan.social avatar

“Excessive lens flare”

Star Wars: The Force Awakens:

FordBeeblebrox ,

What’s wrong with Neelix?

Dislike DIS because Michael, not Gene’s vision

Wicked jealous of Pike’s hair

match ,
@match@pawb.social avatar

I dislile TNG because Q. I will be arguing with dissenters in the comments

ValueSubtracted OP ,
@ValueSubtracted@startrek.website avatar

I disagree - you dislike TNG for completely different reasons.

match ,
@match@pawb.social avatar

Shit. You got me.

sgibson5150 ,

Tangent, but I had a generally positive opinion of John de Lancie based on his work in Trek and Days of Our Lives (I am so old) and various interviews I’d seen over the years until I saw Jenny Nicholson’s video about the last Bronycon. De Lancie had some involvement in a film about the Brony phenomenon and she was in a green room with him a few times. Apparently he was pretty rude and showed contempt for his fans. 🙁

Disclaimer: Not a Brony myself but Jenny Nicholson can make anything interesting.

sirblastalot , (edited )

De Lancie invited the local bronies in my area to attend an opera he was narrating. I attended and he came and hung out with the bronies afterwards, saying he wanted to thank us for sharing our thing with him by sharing his thing with us. He stayed late after, signing autographs and chatting with people, for so long that I think he may actually have missed his flight. He was a super sweetheart. Maybe he needs to vent about the nasty fans behind closed doors sometimes, but I can’t begrudge anyone that. I recognize that it’s only one data point, but he made the effort to do something nice for us on his own initiative, was incredibly generous with his time, and was kind to me, personally. I will always appreciate that.

EDIT: Also, it was a free event so it’s not like he was trying to sell tickets or anything, and there were less than a dozen of us so I doubt it was a self-serving PR move.

sgibson5150 ,

Glad you had a good experience. I guess people are never as simple as the boxes we try to cram them into, and fandoms can be both a blessing and a curse.

berrim ,

Most Q episodes are hit or miss and almost all of TNG season 1 is bad but I still think episode 1 with Q putting Picard on trial is a perfect introduction to TNG.

RoyalEngineering ,

Android slaves in Picard conflicts with TNG canon.

Trapped tardigrades for propulsion in Disco conflicts with Voyager canon.

Those are my complaints.

kshade ,
@kshade@lemmy.world avatar

Android slaves in Picard conflicts with TNG canon.

I blame Voyager.

RoyalEngineering ,

Hm, not sure what you mean.

Are there android slaves in voyager?

kshade ,
@kshade@lemmy.world avatar

Not quite, but in “Author, Author” a bunch of repurposed EMH Mark 1 are mining dilithium while obviously not being very happy about it.

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

Android slaves in Picard conflicts with TNG canon.

Yeah I hear ya on that. When you think about it, Picard S1 is the exact opposite of Measure of a Man. In Measure of a Man they start by thinking it’s ok to disassemble Data against his will because he’s a machine. But then there’s a debate about whether he’s sentient. It ends with Picard saying that since debatable that he’s sentient there is no debate about whether or not to disassemble data because if they do that if there’s even a possibility Data is sentient, they risk being horrible racist monsters and eventually creating a slave race.

Picard S1 starts with the Federation already creating a slave race AND disassembling the androids. And it’s not that they’re assuming they’re just machines, they are overtly racist against the androids. So much so when the androids malfunction they don’t even consider the possibility that it’s a malfunction (run a level 5 diagnostic or whatever), they go straight to hating androids.

I get they were trying to do an anti-racist message (which it’s Star Trek, that’s what they should do) but by doing Measure of a Man backwards they didn’t accomplish anything. Because it’s later revealed the androids were indeed just malfunctioning machines. So the Federation was being racist against malfunctioning machines? What is anyone supposed to learn from this message? If your computer doesn’t work right, don’t be racist against computers… run a virus scan instead.

TNG: Android is a machine -> maybe he’s sentient? -> disassembly might be racist? -> disassembly: NOPE!

Picard S1: Android are people -> people that the Federation is racist against -> no wait, they’re actually malfunctioning machines -> ???

By doing it backwards they watered down the anti-racist message so much it’s non-existent.

RoyalEngineering ,

Yes agreed 10000%. S1 Picard was so confusing to me because of what you said. Did nobody in the writers room watch that episode of TNG?? There’s a few more too!!

“The Most Toys” asserts Data’s humanity over and over again. That episode with the Exocomps talks about tech sentience thru evolution and the effect on self preservation. That other episode about terraforming and finding the inorganic life forms. So many to choose from!

First 30 seconds of Picard: “These damn dirty robot slaves are so whiny and cranky!”

Me: 🤦

realitista , (edited )

I dislike Discovery, not true to Gene’s vision.

It stopped being sci-fi and started being fantasy when they started with magical tardigrades and “time bugs”. The rest plays like a space marines series.

Edit: also the spark and flame throwers on the bridge make it look like GWAR concert.

UESPA_Sputnik ,
@UESPA_Sputnik@lemmy.world avatar

Thankfully TOS never did any fantasy stuff like galactic barriers, Trelane, massive green hands in space, or Abraham Lincoln. That wouldn’t have been true to Gene’s vision.

I’m not a fan of Disco either, but tardigrades and time bugs are really low on my list of complaints. Star Trek did lots of even whackier stuff over the last 60 years (or did everyone forget the “Fun with DNA” episodes of the 90s?). In fact, that time bug episode was probably the best 32nd century Disco episode. Which is a low bar, but anyway.

realitista ,

I guess my issues with stuff like the tardigrade, time bug, spore drive, etc. is that it’s just taking something from earth and putting it in space and saying it’s the “space version”. It’s so lazy and stupid. At least TOS usually had some interesting reasoning behind why these things were happening or they were different enough from anything on earth that at least they felt novel and innovative.

venoft ,
@venoft@lemmy.world avatar

I dislike Discovery because it focuses on one main character instead of the entire crew.

realitista ,

That’s kind of exactly what I don’t like about it and part of why I call it a “space marines” series. Gene’s vision is of a future where different life forms come together and work under a unified code and for the greater good. It’s not about one person rising to power and being the hero.

It feels like they are trying to graft the Star Wars theme onto Star Trek with hand wavey magical “forces” that don’t have even the most tenuous link to science, and singular heroes that make anything that’s worth happening happen. The original series at least tried to give a nod to the scientific consensus and then try to extrapolate it out.

yuri ,

Oh no, am I gonna hate Discovery? That sounds decidedly un-star trek.

FordBeeblebrox ,

Michael Burnham is somehow more valuable than everyone else in Starfleet when it comes to saving the universe. Then saving it again. Then going to the future and saving it again. It’s a bummer cause there are some great characters but no one does deus ex like Michael and yeah it does not feel like Trek

echodot ,

what about the special needs holograms that fail if you blink at them in the wrong way. What the hell was that about?

This is what happens when a stupid person tries to write a clever character. There’s no actual intelligence it’s all just stupid magic loopholes that our character knows for some random reason that makes no actual logical sense.

usernamefactory ,

Gene would have loved Discovery because it let characters say “fuck” and there’s nothing and no one Gene hated more than the censors.

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

Detest, Voyager, missing/extra pips.

Notes: WHERE IS HARRY’S PROMOTION?!

Teanut ,

This also grinds my gears, especially after so many officers die during the course of the series. So many junior officer ranks are time-defined promotions (in real life) and even if they weren’t time based, slots opened up due to all the people dying.

toddestan ,

No checkbox for Wesley Crusher? 🤔

sem ,

Checkbox for annoying minor character with limited screen time

rambling_lunatic ,

The one where Kirk dies. I don’t think I need to explain further.

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

Which Kirk and which show/movie where he dies? He’s died at least 4 times in 3 different universes.

rambling_lunatic ,

The one with Picard too. I forgot the name.

Zorque ,

They killed Kirk in Picard, too?!

Crashumbc ,

Lol he means the first TNG movie.

usernamefactory ,

Kirk didn’t die in that movie. It looked like he did, but he can’t have. He wasn’t alone.

Zorque ,

I mean, I know streaming shows seem to be getting shorter and shorter with each season, that doesn’t mean it was a movie!

DmMacniel ,

Oh my

Olhonestjim , (edited )

I have a problem with the Kelvin timeline. Specifically how they depicted the Kobayashi Maru sequence. No, I don’t care if Spock programmed it. My issue is that Kirk’s behavior stank. He straight up cheated, but even worse, he was smug about it. That didn’t show leadership potential at all. That was conduct unbecoming of an officer.

I’d always had it in my head that Kirk simply disagreed with the test philosophically. It’s a simple scene to set up. Kobayashi Maru tests officers to see how they deal with a losing path in a simulation of a deterministic universe, but especially to reveal the quality of their character. But Kirk doesn’t believe in fate. He believes in a quantum universe, where infinite possibilities spring from the vacuum every instant. In my mind, Kirk wouldn’t simply reprogram the hostile ships’ shields to drop at an exact moment, then just line up his shots. That’s still determinism! Instead he would subtly reprogram the simulation to account for random chance, and depend upon his skill to beat the odds against whatever the scenario might throw at him. Examining his changes to the code would reveal not a spoiled rotten, cheating, nepotism brat, but a confident leader with a fundamental difference in personal philosophy for approaching the Universe, and furthermore, who simultaneously argued that the Kobayashi Maru was a flawed exercise, while generously offering a patch to improve it. That’s captain material.

That scene would have made me lose all respect for Kirk if I regarded it as canon, so I can’t. I would never follow a man like that into the unknown, no matter his supposed tactical brilliance. No disrespect to any of the actors. It’s just bad writing. Beyond that, I’ve got no problem with Kelvin beyond minor quibbles.

Crashumbc ,

I understand where you’re coming from.

Another way to look at it though, is Kirk wanted to draw attention to the ridiculousness of the test. He was making a bold statement that his intention wasn’t to “cheat” but to show the test was stupid by rubbing it in their faces. He was saying if you’re going to fix it so I can’t win, I’m going to fix it so no one can lose.

I have my issues with the Kelvin timeline. And to be honest I think the writing could have been better in that scene. But I would prefer they replace the ending of movie two. The reactor sacrifice thing went away past just a nod to previous movies into lazy writing. And the blood thing created SO many future plot holes…

usernamefactory ,

This is how I see it. Reprogramming the test was a protest, and protests should be loud and obvious. A subtle change that made the test just barely passable would have just looked like academic dishonesty.

Crashumbc ,

Yeah the more thought about it, you also can’t compare “canon” Kirk to the Kelvin Kirk. Expecting one that grew up without a dad to act the same…

usernamefactory ,

That’s very true, Kelvin Kirk is much more obnoxious than I believe prime Kirk would have been as a cadet. I’m not even sure Kelvin Kirk has the necessary charm to argue his way out of trouble the way prime Kirk did. If the attack on Vulcan hadn’t interrupted, I could see the academy authorities coming down pretty hard on him.

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

Yeah Into Darkness was just a bad concept all around. Just a bad idea to remake a good movie in general. And then Star Trek II revolved around a villain from Kirk’s past coming back for revenge. Kirk and Khan never met before in the Kelvin timeline, so there really isn’t anything there. It was destined to be a a half-assed remake at the concept stage, and they should’ve scrapped it and done pretty much anything else as soon as someone suggested bringing back Khan.

Still it’s not the worst Trek movie.

Crashumbc ,

Yeah, I mentioned the end, but that was more the straw that broke the camel’s back. I’m general I liked them all but 2 was the worst of the three without question.

Voroxpete ,

The Kobayashi Maru sequence is a perfect summation of everything wrong with Kelvin Kirk. He’s basically a fratboy. He just lies and cheats his way through problems by the seat of his pants with no forethought or consideration. Actual TOS Kirk is an incredibly smart, educated and thoughtful leader who constantly questions his own beliefs and motivations. He understands the burden and the cost of leadership, and always strives to meet that burden, and he truly believes in the Federations mission to be build a better world for all.

This is why I love Strange New Worlds. SMW Chris Pike is, genuinely, the best version of Kirk in any Star Trek. Smart, thoughtful, emotionally intelligent, cares deeply about his crew, but also funny and likable. And, when need be, kind of a badass.

notgold ,
@notgold@aussie.zone avatar

No man is an island

https://aussie.zone/pictrs/image/7c12e0c5-2d27-4a7f-bc18-42e5a2a6501a.jpeg

OhStopYellingAtMe ,
@OhStopYellingAtMe@lemmy.world avatar

I dislike LD because it’s too hyper.

VindictiveJudge ,
@VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world avatar

It does get less hyper as it goes on, but only to a point.

HeyThisIsntTheYMCA ,
@HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world avatar

Please enter beep box to complain

MajorHavoc ,

I love to rag on Neelix, not least because I think Ethan Philips has been criminally underused ever since VOY ended. (Put him through a freak worm hole already!) But even so… Dang. Got his own checkbox. His cooking can’t have been that bad…

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