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velox_vulnus ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    SpaceNoodle ,

    npm is objectively worse. Base pip packages aren’t getting hijacked.

    Redscare867 ,

    Maybe I’m misremembering, but didn’t pip have it’s own security concerns earlier this year?

    _stranger_ ,

    I believe that was just name squatting.

    fragment ,

    It’s less the name squatting and more pip not supporting a certain PyPI resolution order: github.com/pypa/pip/issues/8606

    For example, I have A, B and C in my requirements.txt but I want to install C from my own private PyPI. Everything works fine until someone uploads a package name C to the public PyPI then suddenly I’m not installing my private package anymore.

    _stranger_ ,

    Yeah, I remember now. the name squatting was from people putting malicious packages under misspelled names of well known packages, like “requets” instead of requests.

    ExLisper OP , (edited )

    In my experience npm is not great but it does work most of the time. I just tried installing bunch of stuff using pip and NONE of them worked. Python is backwards compatibility hell. Python 2 vs 3, dependencies missing, important libraries being forked and not working anymore. If the official installation instructions are ‘pip install X’ and it doesn’t work then what’s the point?

    npm has A LOT of issues but generally when I do ‘npm i’ i installs things and they work.

    But the main point is that cargo is just amazing :)

    P.S. Never used ruby.

    velox_vulnus ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    ExLisper OP ,

    The main issue with JS is that every 6 months someone comes up with the next great tool that misses half of basic features and dies after 6 months when someone comes up with the next great tool. But at least the old tested solution still works unlike in Python where the main goal seems to be breaking the backwards compatibility as often as possible.

    QuazarOmega ,

    pnpm is already very well established, it’s not completely different from npm either so they didn’t have to reinvent the wheel, they just made some things much better.
    Python is is just a mess on the other hand, a thousand tools all with some overlap in what they’re trying to achieve because they didn’t have the balls to make pip an all-in-one solution, there are 2 great alternatives that do almost everything though: poetry and pdm. I read a spot on analysis on this article, maybe it can help you make a choice

    ExLisper OP ,

    This is great, thanks. Will definitely read even though I don’t do much work in python. It’s good to know how NOT to do things.

    tsonfeir ,
    @tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

    I’m still rocking the fuck out of PHP (8) 😘

    jjjalljs ,

    But at least the old tested solution still works unlike in Python where the main goal seems to be breaking the backwards compatibility as often as possible.

    lol what. Node does a new major release every six months. And you’re shit talking python? There’s probably never going to be another major version change, and minor versions have several years of support

    In like 10 years of python development I don’t think I’ve ever been mad about breaking changes in python.

    ArbiterXero ,

    Well there’s your problem lol.

    Don’t use 2 for anything, it’s been “dead” for almost 4 years.

    clearleaf ,

    The problem is 2 and modules for 2 still tend to worm their way in somehow. I always use python3 -m pip because I never trust that “pip” alone is going to be python3 pip and I think that’s what the people who have lots of trouble with pip aren’t doing.

    ArbiterXero ,

    Valid point.

    I force everything to 3 and don’t accept any 2.

    And in fairness, there were some moderate breaking changes 3.6-3.8

    fushuan ,

    It would be weird to have python2-pip installed if you don’t have python2 installed, pip should be python2-pip by default on most systems.

    I… Dunno, are you suggesting that sometimes pip2 is the default and that that somehow mixes 2 and 3 modules? Pip 2 should install into python 2’s directory and pip 3 to python 3’s. The only times I have had messy python environments is when I mix pipenv, conda and/or pip, and when people install into the main python with specific versioning, use a virtual env for God’s sake, that’s what npm does.

    spacecadet ,

    Ahh the blissful ignorance of not having to manage tech debt

    ArbiterXero ,

    No, I just don’t ignore it for 4 years.

    The bliss is in having management that actually DOES manage the debt instead of ignoring it until it shits the bed

    redcalcium ,

    Hmm, I personally haven’t seen that kind of issue myself though. I also tend to not use random packages from random authors though, so that might help.

    _stranger_ ,

    I don’t think it’s fair to blame pip for some ancient abandoned packages you tried to use.

    ExLisper OP ,

    The issues I had:

    • packages installing but not working due to missing dependencies
    • packages installing but not working due to broken dependencies (wrong lib version installed)
    • packages not building and failing with obscure errors
    • one package was abandoned and using Python 2.7

    If a ‘pip install X’ completes successfully but X doesn’t work it’s on pip. And when it fails it could tell you why. Cargo does.

    _stranger_ ,

    packages installing but not working due to missing dependencies This is the fault of the package author/maintainer

    packages installing but not working due to broken dependencies Sometimes the fault of the package author/maintainer. Sometimes this is the fault of a different package you’re also trying to use in tandem. Ultimately this is a problem with the shared library approach python takes and it can be ‘solved’ by vendoring within your own package.

    packages not building and failing with obscure errors Assuming the package is good, this is a problem with your build system. It’s like complaining a make file won’t run because your system doesn’t have gcc installed.

    one package was abandoned and using Python 2.7 Unfortunately there’s a ton of this kind of stuff. I suppose you can blame pypi for this, they should have some kind of warning for essentially abandoned projects.

    xmunk , (edited )

    I’d personally take PECL over npm and I loathe PECL.

    Composer, though, is excellent.

    tias ,

    That’s not a controversial opinion. I’d say it’s worse than pip. At least pip doesn’t put nag messages on the console or fill up your hard drive with half a gigabyte of small files. OP is confused.

    Hawk ,

    npm is so good there are at least 3 alternatives and every package instructs on using a different one.

    gkd ,
    @gkd@lemmy.ml avatar

    About the only good thing about npm is that I can use one of the superior alternatives. Using npm is almost always a headache as soon as you start working with a decent number of packages.

    rothaine , (edited )

    Sorry but nah. My last job we had a couple different python microservices. There was pipenv, venv, virtualenv, poetry, Pipfile.lock, requirements.txt (which is only the top level???), just pure madness

    Apparently all this shit is needed because python wants to install shit globally by default? Are you kidding?

    Well, we also had a couple node microservices. Here’s how it went: npm install. Done.

    Afraid you fucked something and want a clean environment? Here’s how you do it with node: delete node_modules/. Done.

    Want a clean python env? Uhhhhhhhh use docker I guess? Maybe try reinstalling Python using homebrew? (real actual answers from the python devs who set these up)

    Well what’s currently installed? ls node_modules, or use npm ls if you want to be fancy.

    In python land? Uhhhhhh

    Let’s update some dep–WHY AREN’T PYTHON PACKAGES USING SEMVER

    So yeah, npm may do some stuff wrong, but it seems like it does way more shit right. Granted I didn’t really put in the effort to figure out all this python shit, but the people who did still didn’t have good answers. And npm is just straightforward and “works”.

    “But JS projects pull in SOOOO many dependencies” Oh boohoo, you have a 1TB SSD anyway.

    rwhitisissle ,

    Apparently all this shit is needed because python wants to install shit globally by default?

    None of that was needed. It was just used because nobody at your company enforced a single standard for developing your product.

    Afraid you fucked something and want a clean environment? Here’s how you do it with node: delete node_modules/. Done.

    rm -rf venv/. Done.

    Want a clean python env? Uhhhhhhhh use docker I guess?

    python -m venv venv

    Well what’s currently installed? ls node_modules, or use npm ls if you want to be fancy. In python land? Uhhhhhh

    pip freeze. pip list if you want it formatted.

    Let’s update some dep–WHY AREN’T PYTHON PACKAGES USING SEMVER

    Janky, legacy python packages will have random versioning schemes. If a dependency you’re using doesn’t follow semver I would question why you’re using it and seek out an actively maintained alternative.

    CapeWearingAeroplane ,

    Im honestly surprised someone using Python professionally appears to not know anything about how pip/venv work.

    The points you think you are making here are just very clearly showing that you need to rtfm…

    rothaine ,

    More like rtfms. I really didn’t feel like learning 20 different tools for repos my team didn’t touch very often.

    CapeWearingAeroplane ,

    I really don’t see the hassle… just pick one (e.g. pip/venv) and learn it in like half a day. It took college student me literally a couple hours to figure out how I could distribute a package to my peers that included compiled C++ code using pypi. The hardest part was figuring out how to cross compile the C++ lib. If you think it’s that hard to understand I really don’t know what to tell you…

    rothaine ,

    Sure, for a new project. But when inheriting code I’m not in a position to pick.

    The point is that the state of python package managers is a hot fucking mess compared to npm. Claiming that “npm is just as bad” (or worse) honestly seems ridiculous to me.

    (And isn’t pip/venv the one the requirements.txt one? Completely flat, no way to discern the difference between direct dependencies and sub-dependencies? No hashes? Sucks when it’s time for updating? Yeah no thanks, I’d like a proper lock file. Which is probably why there are a dozen other tools.)

    Ascyron ,

    Bruh idk why the difference… Educate me?

    theFibonacciEffect ,

    Pip stores everything inside of some random txt file that doesn’t differentiate between packages and dependencies.

    SSUPII ,

    Honestly its a simple and straightforward solution. What’s wrong with it?

    theFibonacciEffect ,

    If newer versions are released and dependencies change you would still install the old dependencies

    JakobDev ,

    Pip stores nothing in a text file

    theFibonacciEffect ,

    If you want to export your local environment, isn’t usually a requirements.txt used?

    JakobDev ,

    Yes, but this file is created by you and not pip. It’s not like package.json from npm. You don’t even need to create this file.

    theFibonacciEffect ,

    Well if the file would be created by hand, that’s very cumbersome.

    But what is sometimes done to create it automatically is using

    pip freeze > requirements. txt

    inside your virtual environment.

    You said I don’t need to create this file? How else will I distribute my environment so that it can be easily used? There are a lot of other standard, like setup.py etc, so it’s only one possibility. But the fact that there are multiple competing standard shows that how pip handles this is kinds bad.

    JakobDev ,

    If you try to keep your depencies low, it’s not very cumbersome. I usually do that.

    A setup.py/pyproject.toml can replace requirements. txt, but it is for creating packages and does way more than just installing dependencies, so they are not really competing.

    For scripts which have just 1 or 2 packges as depencies it’s also usuall to just tell people to run pip install .

    Vash63 ,

    I work with python professionally and would never do that. I add my actual imports to the requirements and if I forget I do it later as the package fails CI/CD tests.

    ExLisper OP ,

    cargo just works, it’s great and everyone loves it.

    npm has a lot of issues but in general does the job. When docs say do ‘npm install X’ you do it and it works.

    pip is a mess. In my experience doing ‘pip install X’ will maybe install something but it will not work because some dependencies will be screwed up. Using it to distribute software is pointless.

    krimson ,
    @krimson@feddit.nl avatar

    I use pip extensively and have zero issues.

    npm pulls in a million dependencies for even the simplest functionality.

    qaz ,

    You’ve never had broken dependencies?

    krimson ,
    @krimson@feddit.nl avatar

    Nope. I know mixing pip with python packages installed through your systems package manager can be a problem but that’s why I containerize everything.

    qaz ,

    I separate everything in virtual environments myself, but in my opinion you shouldn’t need to that to simply avoid breaking your system.

    ExLisper OP ,

    It probably works for your own local project. After using it for couple of days to install some 3rd party tool my conclusion is that it has no idea about dependencies. It just downloads some dependencies in some random versions and than it never works. Completely useless.

    TunaCowboy ,

    This is clearly a layer 8 issue lmao.

    QuazarOmega ,

    Is that really the fault of the package manager or is it of the libraries you decide to use?

    ninpnin ,

    Fault of the libraries you decide to use, i.e. any and all node libraries

    QuazarOmega ,

    Well if that’s the case, can’t argue with that lol

    Theharpyeagle ,

    Really the fault of js since its standard library is so lacking (leftpad, anyone?), but js wasn’t built to do half the stuff it’s being asked to do, anyway.

    Oha ,

    npm is just plain up terrible. never worked for me first try without doing weird stuff

    operetingushisutemu , (edited )

    I don’t know what cargo is, but npm is the second worst package manager I’ve ever used after nuget.

    backhdlp ,
    @backhdlp@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    cargo is rust

    scorpionix ,
    @scorpionix@feddit.de avatar

    cargo is the package manager for the Rust language

    Lucky ,

    I’ve never had an issue with nuget, at least since dotnet core. My experience has it far ahead of npm and pip

    jubilationtcornpone ,

    I’ll second this. I would argue that .Net Core’s package/dependency management in general is way better than Python or JavaScript. Typically it just works and when it doesn’t it’s not too difficult to fix.

    dan ,
    @dan@upvote.au avatar

    It’s also much faster to install packages than npm or pip since it uses a local package cache and each package generally only has a few DLL files inside.

    Pxtl , (edited )
    @Pxtl@lemmy.ca avatar

    what’s wrong with nuget? I have to say I like the “I want latest” “no, all your dependencies are pinned you want to update latest you gotta decide to do it” workflow. I can think of some bad problems when you try to do fancy things with it but the basic case of “I just want to fetch my program’s dependencies” it’s fine.

    Lucky , (edited )

    I’m guessing they only used it 10 years ago when it was very rough around the edges and didn’t integrate well with the old .NET Framework because it conflicted with how web.config managed dependencies and poor integration with VS. It was quite bad back then… but so was .NET Framework in general. Then they rebuilt from the ground up with dotnet core and it’s been rock solid since

    Or they just hate Microsoft, which is a common motif to shit on anything Microsoft does regardless of the actual product.

    Pxtl ,
    @Pxtl@lemmy.ca avatar

    Imho the VS integration has always been good, it’s the web config that’s always been a trash fire, and that’s not new.

    Lucky ,

    The project I’m on right now originally had the nuget.exe saved in source because they had to manually run it through build scripts, it wasn’t built in to VS until VS2012

    aquasteel ,

    XKCD Python xkcd.com/1987/

    ExLisper OP ,

    Yep, exactly that. I remember some time ago the official python body (whatever it is) was recommending one tool for python version management and another one of virtual env management or something. Pretty much there were two competing tools and the official recommendation was to use one tool for X and the other tool for Y. It’s a complete mess.

    pastermil ,

    So you are saying that npm is better than pip?? I’m not saying pip is good, but npm?

    ExLisper OP ,

    I would say npm is shitty like a lot of tools are. pip takes it to the next level.

    pastermil ,

    Yeah? I don’t recall having to wait a long time when setting up my project using pip.

    soeren ,

    npm has a lockfile which makes it infinitely better.

    tias ,

    Pip has Pipfile.lock.

    48954246 ,

    That’s pipenv. Pip just has the capability to read and write from a requirements.txt, which is a step that must be taken manually

    tias ,

    Oh right, sorry.

    bjorney ,

    pip also has lock files

    pip freeze > requirements.txt

    SatyrSack ,

    Would that just create a list of the current packages/versions without actually locking anything?

    bjorney ,

    Would that just create a list of the current packages/versions

    Yes, and all downstream dependencies

    without actually locking anything?

    What do you mean? Nothing stops someone from manually installing an npm package that differs from package-lock.json - this behaves the same. If you pip install -r requirements.txt it installs the exact versions specified by the package maintainer, just like npm install the only difference is python requires you to specify the “lock file” instead of implicitly reading one from the CWD

    SatyrSack ,

    As I understand, when you update npm packages, if a package/version is specified in package-lock.json, it will not get updated past that version. But running those pip commands you mentioned is only going to affect what version gets installed initially. From what I can tell, nothing about those commands is stopping pip from eventually updating a package past what you had specified in the requirements.txt that you installed from.

    rgalex ,
    @rgalex@lemmy.world avatar

    The behaviour you mention is from npm install, which will put the same exact version from the package-lock.json, if present. If not it will act as an npm update.

    npm update will always update, and rewrite the package-lock.json file with the latest version available that complies with the restrictions defined on the package.json.

    I may be wrong but, I think the difference may be that python only has the behaviour that package-lock.json offer, but not the package.json, which allows the developer to put constraints on which is the max/min version allowed to install.

    fushuan ,

    If you want min-max behaviours you need to use wrappers like pipenv or jump into conda/mamba. Pip offers basic functionality because there are more advanced tools that the community uses for the more advanced use cases.

    bjorney ,

    But running those pip commands you mentioned is only going to affect what version gets installed initially.

    I don’t follow. If my package-lock.json specifies package X v1.1 nothing stops me from manually telling npm to install package X v1.2, it will just update my package.json and package-lock.json afterwards

    If a requirements.txt specifies X==1.1, pip will install v1.1, not 1.2 or a newer version. If I THEN install package Y that depends on X>1.1, the pip install output will say 1.1 is not compatible and that it is being upgraded to 1.2 to satisfy package Y’s requirements. If package Y works fine on v1.1 and does not require the upgrade, it will leave package X at the version you had previously installed.

    soeren ,

    That’s not a lockfile. This would be the equivalent of package.json

    bjorney ,

    How is it not a lock file?

    package.json doesn’t contain the exact version number of all downstream dependencies, this does

    NBJack ,

    More context: langton.cloud/python-pip-requirements-txt-lock-fi…

    gornius ,

    Lockfile contains exact state of the npm-managed code, making it reproducible exactly the same every time.

    For example without lockfile in your package.json you can have version 5.2.x. In your working directory, you use 5.2.1, however on repo, 5.2.2 has appeared, matching your criteria. Now let’s say a new bug appeared in 5.2.2.

    Now you have mismatched vendor code, that can make your code behave differently on your machine, and your coworker’s machine, making you hunt for bug that wasn’t even on your side.

    Lockfile prevents that by saving an actual state of vendor code.

    bjorney ,

    Yes, which is EXACTLY like a pip freeze’d requirements.txt, storing the exact version of every package and downstream dependency you have installed

    waz ,

    Getting into rust is still on my to-do list, otherwise I’ve no major problem with pip or npm. They both have their flaws, but both work well enough to do what I need them for. If I had to prefer one it would be pip simply to sustain my passionate hate for all things JavaScript.

    ILikeBoobies ,

    doc.rust-lang.org/stable/book/

    waz ,

    Thanks 😊

    gerryflap ,
    @gerryflap@feddit.nl avatar

    This is why I use poetry for python nowadays. Pip just feels like something ancient next to Cargo, Stack, Julia, npm, etc.

    someacnt ,

    Stack?

    gerryflap ,
    @gerryflap@feddit.nl avatar

    Used for Haskell development: docs.haskellstack.org/en/stable/

    QuazarOmega ,

    Fuck pip

    all my homies use pdm

    pixelscript ,

    Bottom should be Composer.

    LazaroFilm ,
    @LazaroFilm@lemmy.world avatar

    git pull

    LazaroFilm ,
    @LazaroFilm@lemmy.world avatar

    brew

    nomecks ,

    curl | sudo bash

    janAkali ,

    cat << EOF > main.c; gcc main.c -o main

    boratul ,

    this is more abt programming languages than packages managers

    someacnt ,

    Which allows me to bash python endlessly >.>

    luky ,

    i will get hated for this but: cargo > composer > pip > npm

    kameecoding ,

    maven not on the list because they aren’t even playing the same sport.

    felbane ,

    If this is from the perspective of a hobbyist or brand new Python dev, that’s a fair opinion to have, I suppose.

    That said, if you’re using Python in a professional capacity, you really need to learn how to use the toolchain properly.

    Python packaging and virtual environments are not difficult to understand, and I’d wager based on your comments elsewhere in this thread that your frustrations are born from not taking the time to understand why following the instructions from a fourteen-year-old blog post aren’t working.

    Cornelius ,

    They’re not difficult by any means.

    But they are tedious when compared to other solutions.

    Scribbd ,

    If we talk about solutions: python has plenty. Which might be overwhelming to the user.

    I use Direnv to manage my python projects. I just have to add layout pyenv 3.12.0 on top and it will create the virtual environment for me. And it will set my shell up to use that virtual environment as I enter that directory. And reset back to default when I leave the directory.

    But you could use pipenv, poetry, pdm, conda, mamba for your environment management. Pip and python do not care.

    ExLisper OP ,

    This article someone linked is not 14 years old and it perfectly describes the mess python and pip are: chriswarrick.com/…/how-to-improve-python-packagin…

    My favorite part is:

    Most importantly: which tool should a beginner use? The PyPA has a few guides and tutorials, one is using pip + venv, another is using pipenv (why would you still do that?), and another tutorial that lets you pick between Hatchling (hatch’s build backend), setuptools, Flit, and PDM, without explaining the differences between them

    But yes, following old blog post is the issue.

    GBU_28 ,

    Why not read the official python docs?

    NBJack ,

    Hahaha!..

    Oh shit, you’re serious.

    GBU_28 ,

    They pretty simply describe how to handle a venv, pip, reqs, etc.

    NBJack ,

    Friend, while I appreciate the time and effort on the docs, it has a rather tiny section on one of the truly worst aspects of pip (and the only one that really guts usability): package conflicts.

    Due to the nature of Python as an interpreted language, there is little that you can check in advance via automation around “can package A and package B coexist peacefully with the lowest common denominator of package X”? Will it work? Will it fail? Run your tool/code and hope for the best!

    Pip is a nightmare with larger, spawling package solutions (i.e. a lot of the ML work out there). But even with the freshest of venv creations, things still go remarkably wrong rather quick in my experience. My favorite is when someone, somewhere in the dependency tree forgets to lock their version, which ends up blossoming into a ticking time bomb before it abruptly stops working.

    Hopefully, your experiences have been far more pleasant than mine.

    jjjalljs ,

    If you’re using a manually managed venv, you need to remember to activate it, or to use the appropriate Python.

    That really doesn’t seem like a big ask.

    I’ve been using python professionally for like 10 years and package management hasn’t really been a big problem.

    If you’re doing professional work, you should probably be using docker or something anyway. Working on the host machine is just asking for “it works on my machine what do you mean it doesn’t work in production?” issues.

    ExLisper OP ,

    No, actually most devs don’t use docker like that. Not java devs, not JS devs, not rust devs. That is because maven, npm and cargo manage dependencies per project. You use it for python exactly because pip does it the wrong way and python has big compatibility issues.

    CapeWearingAeroplane ,

    I have to agree, I maintain and develop packages in fortrat/C/C++ that use Python as a user interface, and in my experience pip just works.

    You only need to throw together a ≈30 line setup.py and a 5 line bash script and then you never have to think about it again.

    TunaCowboy ,

    This is programmer humor, 95% of the people here still get defeated by semicolons, have never used a debugger, and struggle to exit vim.

    fushuan ,

    Sometimes I wish there was a community for more advanced users, where the concept of deciding on the best build tool chain per project is not a major hurdle. Venvs? Nbd. Pipenv? Nbd. Conda/mamba/micromamba? Nbd. Pure pip? Oh boy, I hope it a simple one, but I’ll manage. Maven? Fml, but sure. Npm? Sure. “Complex” git workflows, no problem.

    Idk, that’s just setting up the work environment, if your brains get squeezed by that I’m not sure if you will then be able to the actually code whatever its being asked of you. Some people…

    But yeah, this is a newbie space so I guess that we have to ignore some noise.

    jelloeater85 ,
    @jelloeater85@lemmy.world avatar

    Seriously, I usually use Poetry these days for most projects, shit just works, build well and lets me distribute my code from PiPy just fine. Everything in one pyproject.yaml.

    Pantoffel ,

    I like the pyproject.yaml, but checking dependencies with poetry takes 5 to 10 minutes for my projects.

    jelloeater85 ,
    @jelloeater85@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah, that’s rough. Is it any faster w PipEnv?

    Pantoffel ,

    It actually is almost as instant as you would expect

    jelloeater85 ,
    @jelloeater85@lemmy.world avatar

    Weird, Poetry gotta up their game then 😎

    barsoap , (edited )

    The only time I ever interacted with python packaging was when packaging for nixos. And I can tell you that the whole ecosystem is nuts. You have like ten package managers each with thirty different ways to do things, none of which specify dependencies in a way that can be resolved without manual input because y’all have such glorious ideas as implementing the same interface in different packages and giving each the same name and such. Oh and don’t get me started on setup.py making http requests.

    Cwilliams ,

    What’s so bad about pip? Imho, the venv thing is really nice

    ExLisper OP ,

    vevn is not pip. The confusing set of different tools is part of the problem.

    Cwilliams ,

    Well I guess you could say the tools that integrate with pip are really good, then

    danielquinn ,
    @danielquinn@lemmy.ca avatar

    cough npm,yarn,grunt,esbuild,webpack,parcel,rollup,lasso,rollup,etc.,etc.cough

    I’m not saying that Python’s packaging ecosystem isn’t complicated, but to paint JavaScript as anything other than nightmare fuel just isn’t right.

    wraithcoop ,

    I don’t think that’s a fair comparison, the only two libraries that are related to the actual packaging system in that list is yarn and NPM. The rest of them have to do with the complexities of actually having your code runnable in the maximum number of browsers without issue. If python was the browser scripting language, it’d likely have the same issue.

    Is there a python package that transpiles and polyfills python3 to work in python 2? 2.7? 2.5?

    Also, unrelated to your comment, a lot of people are dunking on npm for the black hole that is node modules (which is valid), but also saying it’s not pip’s fault a lot of packages don’t work. It’s not npm’s fault the package maintainers are including all these dependencies, and there are some 0-dependency packages out there.

    AVincentInSpace ,

    Is there a python 3 package that polyfills to Python 2?

    Plenty of 'em. You ever heard of the six library?

    wasabi ,

    Just use poetry then

    fushuan ,

    It’s not that confusing. There’s like 5 main different tools in total, what are you going to code if you can’t even set up the workspace? That’s much simpler than an installation that depends on cuda or spark, and those only require setting up environment variables after installation anyway.

    As a programmer you’ll encounter several redundant libraries and tools in your life where each has an edge in some use cases and you’ll learn to use most to be able to adapt to the different projects you encounter, python’s package manager tools are simply one of those.

    ExLisper OP ,

    Of course there are more redundant tools. It doesn’t make pip suck any less though.

    christophski ,

    I genuinely don’t get the hate for pip, been using it for 5 years and never had an issue

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