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eran_morad ,

I’d pay extra for no AI in any of my shit.

BlueLineBae ,
@BlueLineBae@midwest.social avatar

I would already like to buy a 4k TV that isn’t smart and have yet to find it. Please don’t add AI into the mix as well :(

Artyom , (edited )

All TVs are dumb TVs if they have no internet access

HATEFISH ,

Look into commercial displays

Diplomjodler3 ,

The simple trick to turn a “smart” TV into a regular one is too cut off its internet access.

the_post_of_tom_joad ,

I got a roku tv and i don’t even know what that means cuz my tele will never see the outside world

HATEFISH ,

Except it will still run like shit and may send telemetry via other means to your neighbors same brand TV

Diplomjodler3 ,

I’ve never heard of that. Do you have a source on that? And how would it run like shit if you’re using something like a Chromecast?

T4V0 ,
@T4V0@lemmy.pt avatar

I don’t know about the telemetry, but my smart tv runs like shit after being on for a few hours. Only a full power cycle makes it work properly again.

Natanael ,

www.amazon.com/Amazon-Sidewalk/b?ie=UTF8&node=213…

aws.amazon.com/iot-core/features/

doofy77 ,

Still uses the shitty ‘smart’ operating system to handle inputs and settings.

pedz ,

Mine still takes several seconds to boot android TV just so it can display the HDMI input, even if not connected to internet. It has to be always plugged on the power because if there is a power cut, it needs to boot android TV again.

My old dumb TV did that in a second without booting an entire OS. Next time I need a big screen, it will be a computer monitor.

Mango ,

I just bought a commercial display directly from the Bengal stadium. Still has Wi-Fi.

MrQuallzin ,

We got a Sceptre brand TV from Walmart a few years ago that does the trick. 4k, 50 inch, no smart features.

onlinepersona ,

I don’t have a TV, but doesn’t a smart TV require internet access? Why not just… not give it internet access? Or do they come with their own mobile data plans now meaning you can’t even turn off the internet access?

Anti Commercial-AI license

refurbishedrefurbisher ,

A lot of TVs are requiring an account login before being able to use it.

onlinepersona ,

OK, that’s really fucked. What the hell? Wait a moment… that means they could turn the use of the TV into a subscription at any time! That’s crazy…

Anti Commercial-AI license

HK65 ,

They continually try to get ob the Internet, it’s basically malware at this point. The on board SoC is also usually comically underpowered so the menus stutter.

onlinepersona ,

I never needed a TV, but now I for sure am not getting one.

Anti Commercial-AI license

HK65 ,

IDK why people are downvoting you, I am sure you’re not alone with that sentiment.

notnotmike ,
@notnotmike@programming.dev avatar

I was just thinking the other day how I’d love to “root” my TV like I used to root my phones. Maybe install some free OS instead

lone_faerie ,

You can if you have a pre-2022 LG TV. It’s more akin to jailbreaking since you can’t install a custom OS, but it does give you more control.

rootmy.tv

dandroid ,

I just disconnected my smart TV from the internet. Nice and dumb.

Appoxo ,
@Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Still slow UI.
If only signage displays would have the fidelity of a regular OLED consumer without the business-usage tax on top.

dandroid ,

What do you use the UI for? I just turn my TV on and off. No user interface needed. Only a power button on the remote.

Appoxo ,
@Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Even switching to other stuff right after the boot (because the power-on can’t be called a simple power-on anymore) the tv is slow.
I recently had the pleasure of interacting with a TV from ~2017 or 2018. God was it slow. Especially loading native apps (Samsung 50"-ish TV)

I like my chromecast. At least that was properly specced. Now if only HDMI and CEC would work like I’d like to :|

AVincentInSpace ,

Signage TVs are good for this. They’re designed to run 24/7 in store windows displaying advertisements or animated menus, so they’re a bit pricey, and don’t expect any fancy features like HDR, but they’ve got no smarts whatsoever. What they do have is a slot you can shove your own smart gadget into with a connector that breaks oug power, HDMI etc. which someone has made a Raspberry Pi Compute Module carrier board for, so if you’re into, say, Jellyfin, you can make it smart completely under your own control with e.g. libreELEC. Here’s a video from Jeff Geerling going into more detail: youtu.be/-epPf7D8oMk

Alternatively, if you want HDR and high refresh rates, you’re okay with a smallish TV, and you’re really willing to splash out, ASUS ROG makes 48" 4K 10-bit gaming monitors for around $1700 US. HDMI is HDMI, you can plug whatever you want into there.

Diplomjodler3 ,

I’m sure that’s coming up.

the_post_of_tom_joad ,

As a yearly fee for DRMd televisions that require Internet access to work at all maybe

CrystalRainwater ,

Right now it’s easier to find projectors without it and a smart os. Before long tho it’s gonna be harder to find those without a smart os and AI upscaling

NounsAndWords ,

I would pay for AI-enhanced hardware…but I haven’t yet seen anything that AI is enhancing, just an emerging product being tacked on to everything they can for an added premium.

lmaydev ,

I use it heavily at work nowadays. It would be nice to run it locally.

baggins ,

You don’t need AI enhanced hardware for that, just normal ass hardware and you run AI software on it.

lmaydev ,

But you can run more complex networks faster. Which is what I want.

baggins ,

Maybe I’m just not understanding what AI-enabled hardware is even supposed to mean

lmaydev ,

It’s hardware specifically designed for running AI tasks. Like neural networks.

An NPU, or Neural Processing Unit, is a dedicated processor or processing unit on a larger SoC designed specifically for accelerating neural network operations and AI tasks. Unlike general-purpose CPUs and GPUs, NPUs are optimized for a data-driven parallel computing, making them highly efficient at processing massive multimedia data like videos and images and processing data for neural networks

ILikeBoobies ,

github.com/huggingface/candle

You can look into this, however it’s not what this discussion is about

lmaydev ,

An NPU, or Neural Processing Unit, is a dedicated processor or processing unit on a larger SoC designed specifically for accelerating neural network operations and AI tasks.

Exactly what we are talking about.

ILikeBoobies ,

Stick to the discussion of paying a premium for hardware not the software

lmaydev ,

Not sure what you mean? The hardware runs the software tasks more efficiently.

ILikeBoobies ,

The discussion is whether people should/would pay extra for hardware designed around ai vs just getting better hardware

Nachorella ,

I’m curious what you use it for at work.

lmaydev ,

I’m a programmer so when learning a new framework or library I use it as an interactive docs that allows follow up questions.

I also use it to generate things like regex and SQL queries.

It’s also really good at refactoring code and other repetitive tasks like that

Nachorella ,

it does seem like a good translator for the less human readable stuff like regex and such. I’ve dabbled with it a bit but I’m a technical artist and haven’t found much use for it in the things I do.

the_crotch ,

Not the guy you were asking but it’s great for writing powershell scripts

DerisionConsulting ,

In the 2010s, it was cramming a phone app and wifi into things to try to justify the higher price, while also spying on users in new ways. The device may even a screen for basically no reason.
In the 2020s, those same useless features now with a bit of software with a flashy name that removes even more control from the user, and allows the manufacturer to spy on even further the user.

ryathal ,

Anything AI actually enhanced would be advertising the enhancement not the AI part.

Fermion ,

It’s like rgb all over again.

At least rgb didn’t make a giant stock market bubble…

hsr ,
@hsr@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

DLSS and XeSS (XMX) are AI and they’re noticably better than non-hardware accelerated alternatives.

PriorityMotif , (edited )
@PriorityMotif@lemmy.world avatar

Already had that Google thingy for years now. The USB/nvme device for image recognition. Can’t remember what it’s called now. Cost like $30.

Edit: Google coral TPU

lauha ,

My Samsung A71 has had devil AI since day one. You know that feature where you can mostly use fingerprint unlock but then once a day or so it ask for the actual passcode for added security. My A71 AI has 100% success rate of picking the most inconvenient time to ask for the passcode instead of letting me do my thing.

cygnus ,
@cygnus@lemmy.ca avatar

The biggest surprise here is that as many as 16% are willing to pay more…

ShinkanTrain ,

I mean, if framegen and supersampling solutions become so good on those chips that regular versions can’t compare I guess I would get the AI version.

the_post_of_tom_joad ,

Acktually it’s 7% that would pay, with the remainder ‘unsure’

FMT99 ,

Show the actual use case in a convincing way and people will line up around the block. Generating some funny pictures or making generic suggestions about your calendar won’t cut it.

overload ,

I completely agree. There are some killer AI apps, but why should AI run on my OS? Recall is a complete disaster of a product and I hope it doesn’t see the light of day, but I’ve no doubt that there’s a place for AI on the PC.

Whatever application there is in AI at the OS level, it needs to be a trustless system that the user has complete control of. I’d be all for an Open source AI running at that level, but Microsoft is not going to do that because they want to ensure that they control your OS data.

PriorityMotif ,
@PriorityMotif@lemmy.world avatar

Machine learning in the os is a great value add for medium to large companies as it will allow them to track real productivity of office workers and easily replace them. Say goodbye to middle management.

overload , (edited )

I think it could definitely automate some roles where you aren’t necessarily thinking and all decisions are made based on information internally available to the PC. For sure these exist but some decisions need human input, I’m not sure how they automate out those roles just because they see stuff happening on the PC every day.

If anything I think this feature is used to spy on users at work and see when keystrokes fall below a certain level each day, but I’m sure that’s already possible for companies to do (but they just don’t).

BlackLaZoR ,
@BlackLaZoR@kbin.run avatar

Unless you're doing music or graphics design there's no usecase. And if you do, you probably have high end GPU anyway

DarkThoughts ,

I could see use for local text gen, but that apparently eats quite a bit more than what desktop PCs could offer if you want to have some actually good results & speed. Generally though, I'd rather want separate extension cards for this. Making it part of other processors is just going to increase their price, even for those who have no use for it.

BlackLaZoR ,
@BlackLaZoR@kbin.run avatar

There are local models for text gen - not as good as chatGPT but at the same time they're uncensored - so it may or may not be useful

DarkThoughts ,

Yes, I know - that's my point. But you need the necessary hardware to run those models in a performative way. Waiting a minute to produce some vaguely relevant gibberish is not going to be of much use. You could also use generative text for other applications, such as video game NPCs, especially all those otherwise useless drones you see in a lot of open world titles could gain a lot of depth.

Poutinetown ,

Tbh this is probably for things like DLSS, captions, etc. Not necessarily for chatbots or generative art.

qaz ,

I would pay extra to be able to run open LLM’s locally on Linux. I wouldn’t pay for Microsoft’s Copilot stuff that’s shoehorned into every interface imaginable while also causing privacy and security issues. The context matters.

Blue_Morpho ,

That’s why NPU’s are actually a good thing. The ability to run LLM local instead of sending everything to Microsoft/Open AI for data mining will be great.

rtxn ,

The dedicated TPM chip is already being used for side-channel attacks. A new processor running arbitrary code would be a black hat’s wet dream.

MajorHavoc ,

It will be.

IoT devices are already getting owned at staggering rates. Adding a learning model that currently cannot be secured is absolutely going to happen, and going to cause a whole new large batch of breaches.

gravitas_deficiency ,

The “s” in IoT stands for “security”

barsquid ,

Do you have an article on that handy? I like reading about side channel and timing attacks.

rtxn ,

TPM-FAIL from 2019. It affects Intel fTPM and some dedicated TPM chips: link

The latest (at the moment) UEFI vulnerability, UEFIcanhazbufferoverflow is also related to, but not directly caused by, TPM on Intel systems: link

barsquid ,

That’s insane. How can they be doing security hardware and leave a timing attack in there?

Thank you for those links, really interesting stuff.

Blue_Morpho ,

It’s not a full CPU. It’s more limited than GPU.

rtxn ,

That’s why I wrote “processor” and not CPU.

Blue_Morpho , (edited )

A processor that isn’t Turing complete isn’t a security problem like the TPM you referenced. A TPM includes a CPU. If a processor is Turing complete it’s called a CPU.

Is it Turing complete? I don’t know. I haven’t seen block diagrams that show the computational units have their own cpu.

CPUs also have co processer to speed up floating point operations. That doesn’t necessarily make it a security problem.

smokescreen ,

Pay more for a shitty chargpt clone in your operating system that can get exploited to hack your device. I see no flaw in this at all.

n3m37h ,

Let me put it in lamens terms… FUCK AI… Thanks, have a great day

iAmTheTot ,

FYI the term is “layman’s”, as of you were using the language of a layman, or someone who is not specifically experienced in the topic.

krashmo ,

Sounds like something a lameman would say

Grabthar ,

Well, when life hands you lémons…

the_post_of_tom_joad ,

Only 7% say they would pay more, which to my mind is the percentage of respondents who have no idea what “AI” in its current bullshit context even is

taiyang ,

Or they know a guy named Al and got confused. ;)

jballs ,
@jballs@sh.itjust.works avatar

Maybe I’m in the minority here, but I’d gladly pay more for Weird Al enhanced hardware.

lost_faith ,

Hardware breaks into a parody of whatever you are doing

Me - laughing and vibing

NigelFrobisher ,

A man walks down the street He says why am I short of attention Got a short little span of attention And woe my nights are so long

flicker ,

I figure they’re those “early adopters” who buy the New Thing! as soon as it comes out, whether they need it or not, whether it’s garbage or not, because they want to be seen as on the cutting edge of technology.

Buelldozer ,
@Buelldozer@lemmy.today avatar

I’m fine with NPUs / TPUs (AI-enhancing hardware) being included with systems because it’s useful for more than just OS shenanigans and commercial generative AI. Do I want Microsoft CoPilot Recall running on that hardware? No.

However I’ve bought TPUs for things like Frigate servers and various ML projects. For gamers there’s some really cool use cases out there for using local LLMs to generate NPC responses in RPGs. For “Smart Home” enthusiasts things like Home Assistant will be rolling out support for local LLMs later this year to make voice commands more context aware.

So do I want that hardware in there so I can use it MYSELF for other things? Yes, yes I do. You probably will eventually too.

Codilingus ,

I wish someone would make software that utilizes things like a M.2 coral TPU, to enhance gameplay like with frame gen, or up scaling for games and videos. Some GPUs are starting to even put M.2 slots on the GPU, if the latency from Mobo M.2 to PCIe GPU would be too slow.

alessandro ,
@alessandro@lemmy.ca avatar

I don’t think the poll question was well made… “would you like part away from your money for…” vaguely shakes hand in air “…ai?”

People is already paying for “ai” even before chatGPT came out to popularize things: DLSS

crazyminner ,

I was recently looking for a new laptop and I actively avoided laptops with AI features.

lamabop ,

Look, me too, but, the average punter on the street just looks at AI new features and goes OK sure give it to me. Tell them about the dodgy shit that goes with AI and you’ll probably get a shrug at most

PenisWenisGenius , (edited )

I’m generally opposed to anything that involves buying new hardware. This isn’t the 1980s. Computers are powerful as fuck. Stop making software that barely runs on them. If they can’t make ai more efficient then fuck it. If they can’t make game graphics good without a minimum of a $1000 gpu that produces as much heat as a space heater, maybe we need to go back to 2000s era 3d. There is absolutely no point in making graphics more photorealistic than maybe Skyrim. The route they’re going is not sustainable.

reev ,

The point of software like DLSS is to run stuff better on computers with worse specs than what you’d normally need to run a game as that quality. There’s plenty of AI tech that can actually improve experiences and saying that Skyrim graphics are the absolute max we as humanity “need” or “should want” is a weird take ¯_(ツ)_/¯

warm ,

The quality of games has dropped a lot, they make them fast and as long as it can just about reach 60fps at 720p they release it. Hardware is insane these days, the games mostly look the same as they did 10 years ago (Skyrim never looked amazing for 2011. BF3, Crysis 2, Forza, Arkham City etc. came out then too), but the performance of them has dropped significantly.

I don't want DLSS and I refuse to buy a game that relies on upscaling to have any meaningful performance. Everything should be over 120fps at this point, way over. But people accept the shit and buy the games up anyway, so nothing is going to change.

The point is, we would rather have games looking like Skyrim with great performance vs '4K RTX real time raytracing ultra AI realistic graphics wow!' at 60fps.

nekusoul , (edited )
@nekusoul@lemmy.nekusoul.de avatar

The quality of games has dropped a lot, they make them fast

Isn’t the public opinion that games take way too long to make nowadays? They certainly don’t make them fast anymore.

As for the rest, I also can’t really agree. IMO, graphics have taken a huge jump in recent years, even outside of RT. Lighting, texture quality shaders, as well as object density and variety have been getting a noticeable bump. Other than the occasional dud and awful shader compilation stutter that has plagued many PC games over the last few years (but is getting more awareness now) I’d argue that game performance is pretty good for most games right now.

That’s why I see techniques like DLSS/FSR/XeSS/TSR not as crutch, but as just as one of the dozen other rendering shortcuts game engines have accumulated over the years. That said, it’s not often we see a new technique deliver such a big performance boost while having almost no visual impact.

Also, who decided that ‘we’ would rather have games looking like Skyrim? While I do like high FPS very much, I also do like shiny graphics with all the bells and whistles. A Game like ‘The Talos Principle 2’ for example does hammer the GPU quite a bit on its highest settings, but it certainly delivers in the graphics department. So much so that I’ve probably spent as much time admiring the highly detailed environments as I did actually solving the puzzles.

warm , (edited )

Isn't the public opinion that games take way too long to make nowadays? They certainly don't make them fast anymore.

I think the problem here is that they announce them way too early, so people are waiting like 2-3 years for it. It's better if they are developed behind the scenes and 'surprise' announced a few months prior to launch.

Graphics have advanced of course, but it's become diminishing returns and now a lot of games have resorted to spamming post-processing effects and implementing as much foliage and fog as possible to try and make the games look better. I always bring Destiny 2 up in this conversation, because the game looks great, runs great and the graphical fidelity is amazing - no blur but no rough edges. Versus like any UE game which have terrible TAA, if you disable it then everything is jagged and aliased.

DLSS etc are defo a crutch and they are designed as one (originally for real-time raytracing), hence the better versions requiring new hardware. Games shouldn't be relying on them and their trade-offs are not worth it if you have average modern hardware where the games should just run well natively.

It's not so much us wanting specifically Skyrim, maybe that one guy, but just an extreme example I guess to put the point across. It's obviously all subjective, making things shiny obviously attracts peoples eyes during marketing.

nekusoul ,
@nekusoul@lemmy.nekusoul.de avatar

I see. That I can mostly agree with. I really don’t like the temporal artifacts that come with TAA either, though it’s not a deal-breaker for me if the game hides it well.

A few tidbits I’d like to note though:

they announce them way too early, so people are waiting like 2-3 years for it.

Agree. It’s kind of insane how early some games are being announced in advance. That said, 2-3 years back then was the time it took for a game to get a sequel. Nowadays you often have to wait an entire console-cycle for a sequel to come out instead of getting a trilogy of games on during one.

Games shouldn’t be relying on them and their trade-offs are not worth it

Which trade-offs are you alluding to? Assuming a halfway decent implementation, DLSS 2+ in particular often yields a better image quality than even native resolution with no visible artifacts, so I turn it on even if my GPU can handle a game just fine, even if just to save a few watts.

warm ,

Which trade-offs are you alluding to? Assuming a halfway decent implementation, DLSS 2+ in particular often yields a better image quality than even native resolution with no visible artifacts, so I turn it on even if my GPU can handle a game just fine, even if just to save a few watts.

Trade-offs being the artifacts, while not that noticable to most, I did try it and anything in fast motion does suffer. Another being the hardware requirement. I don't mind it existing, I just don't think mid-high end setups should ever have to enable it for a good experience (well, what I personally consider a good experience :D).

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

We should have stopped with Mario 64. Everything else has been an abomination.

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