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Mediocre_Bard ,

I’ve been to a ton of therapy. It didn’t do anything for me. Actual quotes I’ve heard include, “You’re too depressed for therapy,” and, “I really focus on one traumatic event at a time; you have too much going on.”

So what do I do with that? Nothing. I take my pills, try not to think about the clawing depression, and take care of my family. Therapy isn’t going to help because nothing is going to help.

Anywho, back to work Monday.

HeyThisIsntTheYMCA ,
@HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world avatar

isn’t men’s mental health an oxymoron?

Wanderer ,

The world we live in, at least in regards to this, is a woman’s world and it’s not fit for men. It’s forcing men to do what’s best for women, then if they have any issues things that worked on women are used on men. If men act like women at the end then great, if they still act like men then they are broken.

Now I probably lost a load of people already but bare with me.

Women/ girls have issues then men/boys have to do something about it. Boys constantly get told how to behave how awful their sex is how they need to do this and that and they are wrong, they are responsibly etc. But it doesn’t matter if they are perfectly good citizen and boy it’s still their fault for all the wrong in the world. Nothing ever goes back the other way. Some rich guy has a load of money, that means all guys are responsibly for having a load of money and all guys need to make less money. It’s stupid.

But more to the point how do you make guys happy? Guys do not want one on one sessions when they can talk about all their issues and cry then feel better. That’s a woman’s solution to a problem. Men are built different and need solutions.

The best thing I found is being part of a men only group where we physically hurt each other and used our aggression to have fun with each other. (Rugby). Especially when I was younger men need that testosterone release. Then we all went to the pub got fucked up, was dicks to each other. But we had each others backs. This is what women do not get. They see us fighting each other, calling each other cunts and what not. But if you did something bad the group will let someone call you a cunt and get put in your place, if you are doing something bad the group will step in. If you did nothing wrong then it keeps going on. But we still talk and look out for each other. Here is the point. Who do you think I would rather talk to? Some person in a open collar shirt and fancy office trying to look approachable? Or some guy in a shirt and tie covered in beer, in a dark room, with a black eye and arms the size of my head, that earlier in the day called me a fucking pussy and told me to man the fuck up and get in the game because I just got pushed off a tackle. I bet 9/10 women would get that wrong. Also I’m the person that would respond well to that sort of encouragement, I don’t need to feel sorry for myself that doesn’t help. I need motivation. Women don’t get that either.

Men need men only spaces where they can de-stress and shoot the shit. This is why pubs have been so popular with men. But we need a revival of social clubs. Just a place where you can go to hang out and not need to drink, somehow children need to be involved too by maybe not every day.

heavy ,

Yikes, if this is really your worldview, it seems pretty small and is dismissive of a lot of realities that both men and women live in. To be clear, I’ve tried to parse what you’re saying, and generally it seems you’re calling out symptoms of an issue where the conclusion is men are “built different”. It would be nice if life were so black and white.

Schroed4 ,

So worldview but I think I may be able to parse out his more generously.

Some people need a community with sports and bars and swearing and insults in order to open up. I’m a man and I don’t feel that way myself, but it’s good to remember not all people are the same.

august_senpai ,

Have a problem? Go into therapy. Now you have two problems!

TheWoozy ,

You are now poor too.

Franzia ,

These issues are so big, therapy isn’t gonna be viable. Men have specific and painful societal issues. In the longterm, we need to change the way we socialize boys. The way we talk about expectations of their role, the way we talk about patriarchy and masculinity. There’s a lot of toxic masculinity, and far too little positive masculinity. Boys need far better role models than they currently have (youtubers? music artists - rappers? politicians?). Men of all ages need more third places to make friends, and date without apps that are frankly designed to make insecure men feel less valuable than women.

Would men be open to therapy? Maybe, but not all of them need it. Most men can point exactly towards what in society is peeving them. The system needs to change, rather than the individual.

silentknyght ,

These are interesting comments but they also do not motivate change: there’s nothing you–the one person your are–can do because the problem is so much bigger than you are.

ilk ,

system needs to change, rather than the individual.

We can all agree; meanwhile nobody does anything… The individual can try to adapt using available resources as to not develop or try dealing with issues: spirituality and evidence-based therapy is a good start, and I believe that should be taught since childhood.

Alterecho ,

Wow, I’m seeing a lot of strong anti-therapy vibes here, so I’ll pitch in my two cents.

Therapy is a great tool, if you go into it with clear expectations and you can stomach the cost- both in time and money. Some insurance providers cover it, some don’t, but either way if you don’t have a therapist that you vibe with, you need to be willing to swap around until you find someone that fits you. Note, however, that there’s a big difference between a therapist that is right for you, and one that just doesn’t challenge you.

My experience with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy has been really positive; my first therapist that I really got along with professionally was a great teacher, I really learned how to unpack things that I was feeling in the moment. He helped teach me tools to alleviate the intensity of moments that seemed dire, and to then reflect on why they felt that way, afterwards.

There’s a lot of people who think that it’s supposed to magically fix you, and no, it’s not. It’s work. Genuinely some of the hardest work I’ve done has been applications of the stuff I’ve learned in therapy. But, while I recognize that with stuff like chronic depression, true cures are rare-to-impossible, I’ve got a much better handle on my negative thoughts and self-esteem than I had pre-therapy. It’s been a tremendous help.

I think more tools for people in general would be incredible - the work of normalizing therapy has come a long way, but still it has even further to go. I think the biggest barrier is always cost, and in a perfect world we’d treat both sickness of the mind and body free for everyone.

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

Men, in general, are perfectly mentally healthy. There are men who suffer from such things as schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder–these men require medical treatment for these disorders as much as I require glasses for my myopia. These are medical problems that require medical solutions.

I am not one of those men. I’m one of the many men who operates under a constant layer of depression, anxiety and anger. For men like me, “Therapy” is pretty much a scam. What’s the difference between going to see a “therapist” and going to a fortune teller to read some tarot cards? It costs a lot, insurance won’t pay for it, it takes up a lot of time, and nothing about your situation is ever improved. I’m depressed and anxious and angry because society by and large doesn’t work. The rich are ruining the world for the rest of us out of sheer greed. I’m a widely skilled man, I’m an auto mechanic, a carpenter, a pilot, a programmer…I’ve never had a job that paid all of my bills. And there is nothing.

Nothing.

NOTHING.

NOTHING!!!

that a master’s degree in a tweed jacket can write on a legal pad that will fix that.

“Resources tailored specifically for them” What “resources?” They ain’t got no “resources.” They’ve got a box of tissues and a stack of board games for the neglected/abused children they have to handle. They don’t have a July that isn’t the hottest on record, health insurance that pays for eye glasses, or stable food prices in there.

Talking about “emotional support animals” makes me think that this is a question of marketing. Therapy for Men^TM^ where the therapist wears flannel and a bushy beard with a waxed mustache, the whole place is wood paneled, there’s pictures of axes on the walls, all the furniture is brown leather. Focus groups have shown this is effective for marketing hygiene products, kitchen implements, clothes and alcohol to men, maybe it’ll work for mental health counseling.

loom_in_essence ,

Yup.

applejacks ,
@applejacks@lemmy.world avatar

100% correct

HelixDab2 ,

Therapy costs money. There aren’t really enough therapists in the market to get help to everyone that needs it, so the resources are “rationed” to people that have the most money. Even if the resources were tailored towards men (and I’m unclear how taht would be different from any other patient-centered therapy?), unless more men had the resources to pay for therapy, it’s not likely to make a difference.

Moreover, as someone else said, many of the things that are causing anxiety and depression in general–not just in men–are not things that can be solved with therapy. Therapy can’t make you feel better about climate collapse, for instance, or seeing your ability to afford housing spiraling out of control.

Dagwood222 ,

en.wikipedia.org/…/Iron_John:_A_Book_About_Men

www.gq.com/…/among-the-mens-group-sacred-sons

Ever heard of these?

lightnsfw , (edited )

The reason I don’t go to therapy is because of the expense and the horror stories I’ve heard from people I know trying to make appointments and find a good one. My job actually has a free counseling service we can use but everyone I know who tried it says it’s an absolute joke.

As for emotional support animals, I have a dog at home, having one in the office would just be a distraction.

Most of my problem and the dudes I talk to os that we don’t see a way forward to actually improve our lives. We’re stuck in a dead end financially while everything just gets more and more expensive.

loom_in_essence , (edited )

Therapy is never a cure. If you have a problem then therapy can help you confront it and deal with it, but if we have a massive society-wide mental health crisis it will not be solved by each man individually seeking therapy.

We need meaning in our lives, something worth dedicating ourselves to, and the means to pursue it. Mercenary capitalism won’t provide that.

In short, I don’t see an answer. I think it will get worse.

Addendum:

Most importantly, this new wave of mental health problems is not caused by a new wave of “not being vulnerable.” It’s a societal issue and must be confronted there, not shunted onto each individual man.

mojo ,

Therapy gives you the tools to help achieve that. You are completely underestimating it.

loom_in_essence ,

If it’s one big cause that applies to millions, then no, individual therapy cannot fix that massive problem.

mojo ,

Yeah that’s true. There’s just not enough therapists.

loom_in_essence ,

Even if there were enough therapists, and even if they could actually help, you’re still talking about fixing mental problems instead of preventing them.

mojo ,

It does prevent them if caught earlier. There are many that are simply incurable so idk your point.

loom_in_essence ,

If these mental problems arise from the living conditions of the masses, no amount of therapy can prevent them. Many that seem incurable might just be failing to escape psyche-wrecking situations.

mojo ,

Do you wanna cure cancer, solve global warming, and solve global hunger too while you’re at it? Yeah I’d love to live in a magical perfect world too.

loom_in_essence , (edited )

Okay, you have no compassion, just a therapy fetish.

And, um, yeah… let’s keep working on curing cancer, too.

mojo ,

what the fuck are you talking about

loom_in_essence ,

Seek therapy

mojo ,

Quality communication!

Jumi ,

Your plan is like plucking weeds in a garden without removing it’s roots.

mojo ,

More like plucking the weeds and spraying weed killer spray. The roots are still there, but hopefully therapy keeps it down and from growing.

Paulemeister ,

I don’t know what it’s like in the rest of the world, but I always hear how many people seek a therapist, but can’t find one. I don’t even know if there’s something wrong with me, but I’m interested in finding out. But I don’t think it’s bad enough to warrant to “steal” a spot for somebody who actually needs it, just for interest sake. (Could be the “man” in me talking though, saying “I’m fine”)

UnknownCircle ,
@UnknownCircle@kbin.social avatar

I'd be interested in petting doggos and hanging out if that's what you mean by tailored, but not any traditional therapy. Going affects my employment opportunities, which I care about far more than my mental health. If I wanted to not suffer everyday of my life I'd shift my priorities, expectations, push my boundaries or off myself. Since I haven't done those things yet, things must be fine enough.

I would have a very bad opinion of any version of myself that was happy or content while being aware of all the terrible things we human beings get up to.

The only way I could be convinced to genuinely engage with therapy is if I thought it'd achieve some material goal of mine like making more money. Proving some positive correlation in earnings or attainment of things that men normally want with therapy would probably help. I'd reluctantly go and commit completely if I thought it'd significantly improve the likelihood of achieving my current or future goals. No dogs necessary at that point, just data.

lazylion_ca ,

One reason I dont want to do therapy is simple paranoia. Anything you tell your therapist can be subpoenad by a court. That alone is enough to keep me from trusting a therapist with anything of substance.

That said, anything in my life that might motivate me to do something that would land me in court is probably something I should see a therapist about.

Truth is, I’m unlikely to do anything that would land me in court, so I should probably see a therapist about this paranoia.

rufus ,

Maybe you’re really a bit paranoid. I don’t think those doctors will give away your secrets easily. They’ll fight and have a lawyer on their own and try to make it impossible. Their job demands trust from their patients.

And the court isn’t supposed to ignore your rights either, unless it somehow fits the crime. So you should be completely fine if it’s some lesser crime dealing with drugs, stealing or something like that.

And isn’t this hearsay anyways?

This may change if somebody’s life is on the line. But then you’re probably really a criminal and deserve to be prosecuted.

Still, you could ask your therapist not to write anything down. There is nothing to be requested if it doesn’t exist in the first place.

(Maybe there are a few exceptions nowadays since this culture war in the US took off.)

kingludd ,

In my jurisdiction therapists are mandatory reporters, and suicide is a crime. So telling a therapist you attempted suicide could literally land you in prison.

rufus ,

May I ask which country?

kingludd ,

Direct messaged it to you.

GreenMario ,

Naw bro they’re gonna have to condense therapy into a pill or something because we don’t solve problems by talking about it, we fix em. Trouble is, we can’t hack brains. So yeah, a pill.

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