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mayo ,
@mayo@lemmy.world avatar

I can’t imagine they’d be helpful to me, if anything it makes me feel lesser or condescended to. It’s not the right way to talk about suicide with people who are suicidal.

SirDerpy ,

All the lukewarm attempts to help, rooted in shallow understanding, reinforced my suicidal ideation. What’s the value of false love from a paid hotline worker one will never speak to again? It’s negative.

Be ready to love the shit out of someone yourself. Share their sorrow. Don’t try to fix it. Just try to understand. It’ll fucking suck. The other person knows it sucks for you. Tell them it sucks and that you’re choosing it.

friend_of_satan ,

If you have read the content on afsp.org/im-having-thoughts-of-suicide/ I’d be interested to hear your take. After my brother committed suicide I found their content for suicide loss survivors to be very helpful, but as a suicide loss survivor I can’t judge the content they have for folks who are considering suicide.

Hawk ,

I would like to think that these hotlines are helpful.

I have experience with somebody calling a sexual abuse hotline and being told to " Work less and go outside tomorrow".

This was a crisis situation and the advice was woefully inadequate and unhelpful.

Overall, I’m sure access to a hotline that is monitored with people who are experts at dealing with these situations is a good thing. I doubt they’re funded very well though.

user224 ,
@user224@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Based on what I’ve heard about the US’s 988, it may rather be negative.

Oh, you’re thinking of killing yourself, let us reinforce that by being absolutely rude, or better yet, time to get taken away by cops into a psych ward.

Let’s see what’s out there with some example (Reddit)
Summary: Person called 988, police showed up 90 minutes later, got taken for mandatory psychological evaluation, forced to stay 2 days in ER, ended up getting billed $6,470.

Kecessa ,

Well that last part is a US specific issue and people have the right to refuse treatment

prole ,

Not if you’re “deemed at threat to yourself or others”

lurch ,

Idk, but I bet they think it’s the least they can try. If it saves just one life, it has been worth.

GetOffMyLan ,

Yeah it’s like a 0 effort thing to try

BearOfaTime ,

Except it’s not zero effort, zero cost.

GetOffMyLan , (edited )

Pretty much is in reality. But not literally zero, no.

Zorque ,

It’s a job creator, so in effect it makes money.

/s

BearOfaTime , (edited )

But do we have evidence they’re effective?

It still takes effort/time/money to do this, and if it has no impact, then that effort/time/money could be used on things that are known to be effective.

I have no idea how much effect they have. It’s possible they have a negative effect.

Op’s question is do we have that information?

cm0002 , (edited )

How much effort/time/money do you think they put into that white text on black background that’s on screen for like 5 seconds?

It’s negligible, I would be shocked if it wasn’t the same recycled card over and over again that they have some unpaid intern throw in at some point in the final editing stages

It would probably cost more effort/time/money to do a study on its effectiveness than the pre roll does many times over lmao

Krono ,

It’s not about the production cost, its about the opportunity cost.

A quick google search tells me a national ad costs $200k-$1m for a 30s slot. That means 5 seconds of screen time costs $30k-$150k.

RightHandOfIkaros ,

Businesses do not care about people, I can pretty much guarantee those were added in order to waive liability. Example: person commits suicide because they see it in a show, family sues show company because that is linked to the person’s suicide, arguing the show encouraged the person to do it.

Would that hold up in court? I don’t know, probably not, but the company doesn’t want to deal with that. So they add a warning instead so they can just point to that and it gets thrown out immediately.

quixotic120 ,

There’s evidence that trigger warnings actually worsen anxiety and are counterproductive

The way to treat anxiety is to face the source of anxiety to try and change your relationship and reaction. The best way to do this is via controlled access that exposes one to the trigger gradually in a context that has no risk of harm (eg a media depiction, discussing the concept, building up to discussing the source of trauma that led to the phobic response if applicable)

Trigger warnings enable active avoidance. This sensitizes one to the aversive stimuli and makes the phobic response stronger. As a result when one encounters the stimulus (eg a friend, family, celebrity etc commits suicide, suffers an eating disorder, etc) your resilience to the trigger is now even lower and the response is more likely to be more significant than it was before.

That said education on access to resources like 988 or other warm lines can lower suicide rates, maybe. Research is more mixed here because it’s difficult to prove causation

november , (edited )

There’s evidence that trigger warnings actually worsen anxiety and are counterproductive

I’d be interested in seeing these studies.

The way to treat anxiety is to face the source of anxiety to try and change your relationship and reaction. The best way to do this is via controlled access that exposes one to the trigger gradually in a context that has no risk of harm (eg a media depiction, discussing the concept, building up to discussing the source of trauma that led to the phobic response if applicable)

Trigger warnings enable active avoidance. This sensitizes one to the aversive stimuli and makes the phobic response stronger. As a result when one encounters the stimulus (eg a friend, family, celebrity etc commits suicide, suffers an eating disorder, etc) your resilience to the trigger is now even lower and the response is more likely to be more significant than it was before.

These two paragraphs seem to contradict each other. Controlled access in a safe setting like a media depiction sounds great. That’s exactly what trigger warnings are for. How can you possibly do controlled exposure without knowing if the content is there or not?

Trigger warnings enable active avoidance.

Incorrect. Trigger warnings inform you that the content is present in the media you’re about to watch. What you do with that information is up to you.

quixotic120 ,

journals.sagepub.com/doi/…/2167702620921341 - the bigger takeaway from this one is that trigger warnings reinforce trauma as a central part of the traumatized individuals identity but they did find some incidence of drawback/harm

journals.sagepub.com/doi/…/21677026231186625 meta finding no benefit and actually can cause an anticipatory reaction making the person more engaged with the material

There are others, this is just what grabbed from 30 seconds on google scholar. Its been a bit since I’ve done more serious lit review and it’s not like I keep a directory of papers I’ve read

The issue is the culture surrounding trigger warnings. Let’s be real here, people looking for trigger warnings are generally (perhaps overwhelmingly) not looking for material to help with their exposure therapy. They are looking for a “warning” to help them screen material to avoid. The issue is that this creates an unrealistic expectation that is incompatible with the real world. You can avoid suicide, sexual assault, eating disorders, or whatever in your media (maybe) but real life won’t sanitize itself or warn you. You will encounter these topics, whether through the news, careless speech from friends, or even intrusive thoughts of your own. Research continues to show that avoidance of upsetting topics can worsen anxiety and ptsd symptoms

To your final point the idea of it helping to create a choice isn’t even as clear cut as you describe

journals.sagepub.com/doi/…/21677026221097618 content warnings actually increase the likelihood someone will view problematic content. This point is further reinforced by similar findings in the meta linked above

So you have a system that ultimately makes creators feel like they’re doing something noble, that is likely at best useless and potentially harmful. Said system increases the likelihood that a person will view the problematic content but also enables the reality that a person will simply avoid the things that provoke their anxiety which again is more strongly established as harmful

www.sciencedirect.com/…/S0005796712001064 - ptsd worsens with avoidance

www.sciencedirect.com/…/S0962184904000290 - anxiety disorders do the same

FireTower ,
@FireTower@lemmy.world avatar

I remember my college had a suicide awareness day where among other things they told people to tell their suicidal friends to call the hotline if they felt suicidal.

Now imagine you are that person and you reach out to a friend for help only to have them tell you to call someone else in a canned speech you were told to tell others.

OhmsLawn ,

Optics.

Sooner or later someone will commit suicide while watching your show, no matter what you do. If that episode happens to contain a suicide scene, and somebody rightly or wrongly connects the dots, you want the disclaimer to be there.

some_guy ,

That’s it, the next show that I really hate that has a suicide episode is the one where I’m killing myself watching it to get it canceled.

ada , (edited )
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I’ve lost too many people in my life to suicide, and it’s a really hard topic for me to watch on screen.

So even though I’ve got no use for a hotline, just knowing that the show will center suicide as a theme is important to me being able to decide if/when to watch it.

givesomefucks ,

Suicides can be really easy to prevent.

Like, the hotline itself is incredibly effective, and reminding people it exists would naturally help.

People aren’t getting the number from the intro, but it reminds them it exists.

Badeendje ,
@Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

It also helps normalize actually think about it or discussing the subject.

dsilverz , (edited )
@dsilverz@thelemmy.club avatar

My comment is meant to bring the perspective of someone who’s facing depression so to try to answer the main question (“a warning with suicide hotline really make positive difference?”) through that perspective. It’s not to seek mental help for myself.

For context, I’m a person facing depression, and my depression has broad and multifaceted reasons, from unemployment, going through familiar miscommunication (my parents can’t really understand my way of thinking), all the way to my awareness of climate change and transcendental concepts that lead myself to existential crisis. I’m unemployed to seek therapy (it’s a paid thing) and I don’t really have someone face-to-face capable of understand the multitude of concepts and ideas that I face in my mind (even myself can’t understand me sometimes).

That said, every depressive person has different ways to cope with depression. While some really need someone to talk to (and the talking really helps in those situations), it’s naive to think a conversation will suffice for every single case. I mean, no suicide hotline will make me employed, nor will magically solve the climate changes we’re facing.

So how I try to deal with my own depression? With two things: occult spirituality (worshiping The Dark Mother Goddess) and writing poetry and prose. I use creative writing as “catharsis” for my suffering, in order to “cope” with the state of things that I can’t really control (I can’t “employ myself” or “sell my services to myself”, I can’t “befriend myself”, I can’t stop temperatures from rising till scorching temps, nor the other already-ongoing consequences of climate change; I try to make some difference but I’m just a hermit weirdo nerdy nobody among 8 billion people, and I have no choice but to accept it).

I’m no professional writer (I’m just a software developer), but thanks to The Goddess, I can kinda access my unconscious (dark) mind and let it speak freely (it’s called stream-of-consciousness writing style). Sometimes I even write some funny surrealist prose/story, but sometimes it takes a darker turn, such as dark humor, or nihilistic, or memento mori. Doing this relieves the internal pressure inside my unconscious mind. After writing, I sometimes decide to publish it through fediverse , but when I do it, I constantly feel the need to “self-censor”: sometimes the stream-of-consciousness can lead to texts that people could interpret as some “glorification of suicide/self-harming” (especially when my texts take a nihilistic/memento mori turn), so I often censor myself and change the way I wrote the text. Well, it’s kinda frustrating not being able to fully express it, but I kinda understand how these texts could trigger other people also facing depression.

The fact is: when I write, it’s really relieving, way more than talking to people because, with poetry/prose writing, I can express symbolic things, I can have multiple layers of depth, I can use creative literary devices such as acrostics and rhymes, I can learn new English words while being a Brazilian, I can blend scientific concepts with esoteric and philosophic (my mind really thinks this way, blending STEM, philosophy and belief/esoteric/occult/religious concepts) without the need to fully explain them (because it’d take several hours and it’d be boring to anybody else other than me).

So, in summary (TL;DR): it depends on how multifaceted is the depressive situation. It won’t work for me. It surely can work for others that just need to talk to someone. Not exactly my case.

jordanlund ,
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t think it’s about making a positive difference, it’s about liability.

ilinamorato ,

I don’t doubt that someone might be thinking that, but I do doubt that any lawyer thinks it’s necessary. As far as I know nobody has ever brought suit against a TV show for a suicide case.

But I’m not an attorney.

A_Union_of_Kobolds ,

I’m pretty sure that 13 Reasons Why show had a whole thing involving just this

stoly ,

Lawsuits of “my child died because they copied your TV show” have been going on for decades.

RightHandOfIkaros ,

To my knowledge, there hasn’t been a major peer reviewed study to show whether these warnings make any difference.

Now, my own anecdotal non-peer reviewed personal opinion would be that they probably make no difference at all. Businesses likely began adding them only to waive potential liability and not to actually do anything helpful. They can be frustrating because they spoil upcoming events in media that may have been unexpected or unknown, but because of the warning are now definitely known and thus feels “ruined” when it happens. They can also reinforce ideation of suicide because a person may feel like the ones that added the warning did it as a token thing, treating the person like they are a badge of honor or some kind of selling point. Whether that is true or not doesn’t really matter, a person that is suicidal is almost never “in their right mind,” and if they feel that way, they feel that way. Nobody can tell them how to feel, not even themselves sometimes.

stoly ,

It’s really about not being sued by someone’s family for claiming that they got the idea from the show.

an_onanist ,

I predicted in about 10 years disclaimers at the beginning will include, ‘This show depicts murder. Neither the show’s creators producers or actors condone the taking of another human life.’

solrize ,

They need “This show depicts stupidity” but they will never have it.

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