The Nazis, as all the populists, offered simple solutions to complex problems. The simple people who are struggling and/or in fear of change like that a lot.
If you think your dad was sent to fight against the Nazis for ideological opposition, i have bad news for you. Maybe he personally fought out of that motivation, but must countries at the time were either fascist themselves or on the edge to fascism.
If you look at the US there was the ongoing genocide against native Americans, the racial segregation, eugenics, despicable human experimentation carried out on minorities, concentration camps for Japanese during WW2… Even the pledge to the flag in the schools was something Hitler admired and copied. Until the German Nazis became unpopular in the US the pledge to the flag with done with the “Bellamy Salute” that is the same as the Nazi salute. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute
What is different though is that after WW2 it was understood which social problems, in particular fucking over the lower and middle class, create the breeding ground for fascism to be successful. Since the 1980s with Thatcher and Reagan and then the neoliberal wave over Europe, we had 40 years of deliberately empowering fascism. Now they reap what they sew.
I have to differ on your last point. I don’t think capitalism is necessarily at fault, nor must the working/middle classes be struggling for fascism to emerge. If anything, quite the opposite. It is the better off countries that end up turning fascist. All fascist countries are/were first world countries, in various states of advanced development.
I think it would be more accurate to say that fascism is an extreme form of imperialism, because they are ultimately very similar sentiments. A more powerful group taking advantage in various ways, of a less powerful group. Now you could say, “it’s all the same thing”, capitalism, imperialism, fascism, it’s all the same “hierarchy is the ultimate source of evil dynamic”, but it seems to me that this just reduces all these concepts to absurdity.
Fascism is also on the rise because of improved technology for thought control / propaganda / public relations / advertising. Social media lets the worst of humanity band together and pool their energy.
But wealth inequality, both worse effective quality of life for the poor and increased economic power by the wealthy is I believe a main driver. Technology is just the tool. The ultra wealthy and their lackeys today have more power than ever and are more isolated and inundated with ideology that is basically insane.
I wonder if there are studies that show correlations between quality of life and fascism in different nations.
Capitalisms’ unsustainable model of infinite growth requires something like imperialism to keep going, and even if you could point out alternative venues for capital acquisition, it’s still what people in power want, since it gives them more than just fuel for capitalism, but also more power. Countries and companies that do not rely on imperialism directly, most often rely in others that do. While it’s not entirely futile to discuss whenever that has to be the case in theorethical capitalist solution, it is the case in one we’re living under, and since it’s the ruling class of hyper-wealthy that make decisions about the worlds future and current state of affairs is result of those decisions, it is the system we have to deal with. Unless, you know, we bring out the guilottines and start over, but I don’t see much point in retrying capitalism to see if it won’t lead us down on the path to facism again.
I guess we have to disagree. Growth is an inherently good thing in my view, and I don’t based that on capitalistic ideology. Without growth, the metaphorical pie is finite. What does this mean? It means there is some distribution of this pie, however equal or unequal. Now on one side you will have people like you trying to make the distribution more equal. On the other side you will have war lords, dictators, and power hungry individuals trying to grab more of the pie for themselves. All of you will have to resort to violence to make that happen.
And the magic of economic growth is that you can enrich the world without having to physically fight other people to steal their shit.
The bottom line is, we would have even more imperialism if we did not have economic growth.
Growth isn’t a problem when it’s sustainable. However, there are natural limits to how far and how fast technological development and resource extraction will allow us to grow the economy.
Additionally, competition within capitalism forces the wealthy to seek out any and all means of growth. If they do not they actually risk all of their wealth becoming devalued. This drives innovation but it also is the driver of imperialism, exploitation, environmental degradation, all of which grow the economy.
When growth because less attainable due to various natural constrains, the wealthy start to cannibalize the systems that keep society stable. Again, they can’t help themselves. If they don’t their class position is threatened as some other capital owner beats them to the limited profits that come from privatization and austerity.
This usually results in mass unrest across all the various classes in society. That includes some of the middle classes who also rely on exploitation to maintain their standard of living. In response to threat of social unrest, the wealthy usually align themselves with right wing authoritarians that claim to be able to bring order to the chaos and renew growth through imperial expansion. This kind of politics is often supported by some of the downwardly mobile middle classes. That’s how we get fascism.
I don’t think capitalism is necessarily at fault, nor must the working/middle classes be struggling for fascism to emerge. If anything, quite the opposite. It is the better off countries that end up turning fascist. All fascist countries are/were first world countries, in various states of advanced development.
That’s not right, at least not for the fascist regimes in Europe that emerged prior to WW2. The countries where it happened (specifically Germany/Italy/Spain) had all seen civil unrest or even civil war in the recent past, they were hit hard by the global financial crisis in the twenties and had high unemployment and widespread poverty. This was the very thing the fascists used to ingratiate themselves to the public at large, by creating jobs through massive public building and rearmament projects.
By the way “first world countries” is post-WW2 terminology and didn’t originally have a connotation of superior economic status, but was referring strictly to ideological alignment. Whether a country belonged to the capitalist/communist/unaligned block in international politics during the cold war.
Nazis never went away. Underground Nazi groups, as well as fully fledged Nazi political parties were common throughout post-WWII Europe.
The people fighting the Nazis weren’t ideologically much better than them. The Americans were still racist as fuck. The British and the French were imperialist world dominators. All of these allies were involved in their own genocides. The Soviets believed in sacrificing huge swaths of their own people to accomplish “great leaps forward”.
Nazism and similiar ideologies are fundamentally based on in-group bias, and that is just something psychological. There will always be people who are more open to others and people who are less open to others.
If you look at recent wars, you will see that even the non-Nazi, “moderate”, “liberal”, “centrist” political parties can have blood on their hands and be complicit in atrocities very much reminiscent of the evil the Nazis committed.
I think the bottom line is, you have to unlearn a lot of the just-so narratives that you have been taught about the world.
I was thinking of Israel actually. I don’t think the comparison between the Nazis and the Soviets is apt. The ideological motivations are quite different. And it’s a typical Nazi talking point to point at the Soviets and try to argue that they were worse.
Authoritarianism and personality cult in both cases.
As for the rest, it differed drastically.
Nazi Germany was a reactionary ultra-nationalist ultra-militarist right-wing state that pursued a neverending war to make “living room” for Germans at the expense of everybody else and death to Jews and Gypsies.
Soviet Union was built on the premise of equality and egalitarian society that was only militant against the bourgeoisie. It was built around internationalism and peace of nations.
Yes, it should be noted that during the war Stalin has ordered to move some national groups that were “strategically likely” to join Nazis away from the frontline, which is, let’s say, not great by modern humanitarian standards. But exterminating them was never his goal, and they were very much alive and returned to their homeland afterwards. Quite a contrast with Nazis actually shooting or poisoning everyone remotely Jewish, leaving them to a painful death.
I guess people like to be lied to. They prefer to live in their own imagined worlds fueled by lies and propaganda instead of facing real problems, finding solutions, and sometimes just admit to being wrong. This is why rectionaries are getting so much approval in our fast changing world. sometimes people are not ready for speed of those changes, do not forget not forget it hasnt been long time since we left our caves. and billionaires propaganda is making it’s part too
It’s not just Nazis. The world is trending towards authoritarianism across the board, on the right and the left. Democratic and social institutions everywhere are failing. People don’t trust each other anymore.
The real problem: in the race to build massive civilizations we have destroyed all of our communities.
The answer is simple. We are expanding the definition of, and redefining, Nazis. I’m familiar with the general ideology of the group & how we might classify thoughts as adjacent, but I don’t see Republicans shoving Jews, homosexuals, special needs, and gypsies into concentration camps/gas chambers/ovens.
It’s hard to draw lines. But I’m just going to shoot from the hip here & say, it seems to me like there’s a group of people that wants not only all kinds of freedoms. But also recognition. Accolades. Worship. Dominance in the public space. Anyone that opposes this stupid agenda -yes, agenda- is a Nazi. So we equate Republicans & conservatives with murderous fuckheads that genocide entire groups of minorities. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 Yep, it’s the same picture, totally the same thing, your beliefs are correct & your so-called righteous indignation is justified. We call them all Nazis, historically the worst kind of people, which of course justifies any kind of hatred or violence in response.
Shoot Trump in the head. It’s more than okay, we celebrate assassination attempts, because he’s literally Cheeto Hitler. He’s the death of duhmoocracy. Please kill Donald Trump. If he’s elected, it’s the end of the United States of America, there will be no more elections. He will be a dictator, he’ll never leave, duhmoocracy will be gone forever. No more duhmoocracy. Whatever will happen to America…if we lose our precious duhmoocracy? 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔
I want every American to analyze the situation, logically. Consider what is best for the United States. Getting back to the main discussion: look back at the Nazis in Nazi Germany & everything they did. Are genocidal German Nazis actually making a comeback? Or are we just…labeling everybody we don’t like a Nazi & therefore (grossly, stupidly) expanding the definition of Nazi to conveniently demonize the other side?
You still don’t have an answer, just the smallest smartass responses. Looks like you’re known for them. Your life appears to be…very small. Maybe you should try working harder. 🙃
Ah yes the side that calls me a pedophile (and just by sheer luck wants to give all sex offenders who commit crimes against children mind you). Great answer, both sides are obviously the same.
…idk about your personal situation that is calling for labeling you a pedophile. I have a friend that technically qualifies for indecent exposure in public/sex offender, he needed to take a drunk piss at 1 AM, so in spirit I empathize. Common sense screams, more clarification is needed for sure.
More context is needed. You existing as a trans person doesn’t bother me at all, 0%. I have no interest in continuing debate if you are being persecuted for existing as a trans person.
Have you literally looked at republican rhetoric? They call queer peope (even more so trans women) groomers because their bigoted asses need to create a culture war. There literally is no context needed it is just the literal rhetoric they spout.
I am looking at it almost every day. Ngl you’ve picked a terrible time to have this conversation as everyone is going wild over Ava Kris Tyson and all the alleged inappropriate messages he sent to minors, etc. Lot of weird stuff there. 😅
There’s sexual abuse of children everywhere. Epstein Island, right? And idc if you’re gay, straight, trans, white, black, brown, etc. All abusers should be accountable.
I would argue there’s no need to create a culture war; we are in one. Right now & probably since 2012-ish. It’s wishful thinking on my part, but we really need to come together as a nation. Restore law, order, and decency. Find things we can agree on instead of tearing everybody down. If we can’t do that, I don’t think we’re going to make it.
I am not mad, you still fail to define how I am a Nazi (because you & everyone else knows your premise is bullshit), and you certainly don’t have the authority to tell me what to do. So go fuck yourself. Or don’t, nobody cares.
I am not mad, you still fail to define how I am a Nazi
No one owes you an explanation, and I’m not going to waste my time arguing semantics with a nazi. If you want more out of me, go upstairs and ask your parents what it’s like to live with disappointment.
Trump is called a fascist not because of his conservative/traditional rhetoric. In fact none of the alt-right are THAT conservative. I mean, Trump himself is a pretty liberal cosmopolitan playboy.
The accusation stems from his lack of respect for democracy, rule of law and his fascist behavior. Trumpism is a fascist cult in all aspects. The movement has no real coherent ideological basis. It’s literally a cult of personality surrounding Trump.
Here we go. 🙂 FTR, I classify Trump as… Old-school Democrat, Left+1. If you will. He supports the right for abortion, which is unthinkable for hardcore Republicans. Those crazy-ass single issue voters. AKA, morons.
First sentence of paragraph two I suspect is colored by your political leanings… The rest tbh holds some merit, but what’s the alternative? Braindead Biden to the moon?? Oh wait nevermind, now it’s totally Kamala, the person everybody despised & ridiculed until 5 minutes ago the blessed Savior of duhmoocracy, the best & brightest (lol) to be the leader of the free world.
I readily admit, Trump isn’t our best. But without 8 years of Obama, there wouldn’t be a Trump, and without a Trump there wouldn’t be a Biden, and here we are again & Biden is so fucking gone. Everybody knew it. Somebody wanted Trump dead, because he actually has a chance of winning, if he didn’t an attempt wouldn’t be made.
So now it’s Kamala (lol) vs Trump. My odds are on Trump unless some loser tried to murder him. Again. Kamala has no successes or record to stand on; she’s an embarrassment. And a socialist. But I repeat myself. 🙃
The American public is forced to choose between two radically different candidates. Neither is close to ideal.
I will close with saying I respect you for honest discourse, not an anonymous downvote or saying any of the following I’ve gotten recently: “Lol”, “You are the yikes”, or “I am so totally persecuted for identifying as a super special limited edition pansexual glow in the dark holographic yo-yo, and I refuse to elaborate any further on substantial details that back up my claims to victimhood. I’m just going to post some random-ass claim to make you feel bad & illegitimately claim a moral high ground”.
Trumpism has culty aspects. Agreed. But the alternative is Kamala Harris. Not choosing Trump means choosing Harris. Just another election cycle of choosing between two very different, not ideal extremes.
What’s a shame is that, for all of your words, you seem to know very little about WW2 and Nazi Germany. You’ve reduced it all to basically a straw man so you can win an argument no-one is making. Honestly, if I was a nazi, I’d be insulted by your reductivism. As someone against nazis, it’s insulting too.
In the end, it’s a lot of words to say you’re a) ignorant as hell and b) probably qualify as a nazi
capitalism. fascism is the logical conclusion of capitalism, so the entire world living in a capitalist society helps fascism rise. if you crush people’s spirits hard enough, you can give them easy solutions to their problems so they can get off your scent.
no no, the billionaires are awesome; it’s the immigrants honey. the education system would be awesome if not for drag queens baby. you would have healthcare but see it’s all the DEI hire sweetie.
it’s just lizard brain shit. “brown people bad” is just an easier and more convenient message to digest than trying to understand how the government and the economy actually works.
Not OP, but maybe the following: “The Mass Psychology of Fascism” by Wilhelm Reich provides an analysis of the psychological appeal of fascism, examining how economic conditions and capitalist societies create environments where fascist ideologies can thrive.
Sigh. One could also make the argument that capitalism is the only reason we have democracy at all. I am not allergic to socialist thinking, but putting all the blame on capitalism for everything is intellectually lazy.
I doubt the person you’re replying to would disagree that the advent of capitalism is in fact what brought liberal democracy into existence. The point though is that such progress is unsustainable under a capitalist system and that it will result in various crises, war, and fascism. Therefore we do need to find a way to move past capitalism if we want even the possibility of creating a better world.
You didn’t ask me but I’ll respond. I would call him an opportunist. If it benefits him to attract nazis, he will. He doesn’t seem to have any political leaning. He is a conman.
He shares traits with them. But no, he’s an 8 year old boy trapped in a 78 year old body trying to compensate for his tiny penis and no balls. He will use Nazis just like he uses everyone. As the other commenter said, he’s a con artist and grifter.
When he’s long dead, aside from a footnote in American history books stating he was the worst president since Buchanan, he will be forgotten. Of course this can’t come soon enough.
I hate to be negative, but people have shown a propensity to dislike anyone not like them for thousands of years. Plain and simple. I think this situation can improve, but I doubt seriously, it will ever go away completely.
I kind of wish I knew how to troll nazi’s or call them out irl or just make them change the narrative. I know I am one woman but if I went about it correctly and got more people smarter than me we can shut their stupid shit down.
Considering the Nazi’s were inspired by the US in many ways and the US continued promoting their racist opinions on immigrants, doing coups, and installing far right dictators around the world im more surprised the resurgence isnt bigger.
look at the genocide being funded and armed by the US in Palestine. Israel is invading and preparing for war with like 4? Countries already? Arguing they can rape people they detain and the US threatens the International Criminal Court after they deemed Netanyahu is a war criminal.
The US leads the world culture in a big way, the US is promoting an authoritarian who admires Hitler and the opposition to him continues sending bombs to a war criminal and threatens people who want to stop him.
Hitler called the genocide of native Americans ‘the first great cleansing’ and used it as a framework for ‘his second’. To think that Hitler looked up to the United States really starts to change you as an American. Especially in our current context.
He was also inspired by how racist the US was and how they had demonized and segregated Black peoples as second class citizens while still having a great public perception as a country on the world stage
Nazis also used Zyklon B in gas chambers inspired by the US using it in Mexicans crossing the border to have to work
So when do we get to where we stop considering them human?
I wanna go to a theme park where they have trapped Nazis that we practice throwing knives at, or practice killing multiple with one grenade toss or something.
Edit: Upon further thought, I would amend the wording. Considering them human works, but universally thought of as how do the kids say it now “the worst timeline” version of humans. One to be removed. Like a literal cancer. Other than having a clear example of what the worst looks like, they serve no purpose or benefit to anyone else, and can universally be denied rights and consideration.
We’re better than they are. We don’t dehumanize people. We can still execute them, but we acknowledge that humanity is capable of awful shit and always strive to be better.