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Should I permanently leave Israel?

I’m not sure if this is the right community for this question, but it says “no stupid question” so here goes. I’m an Israeli who now lives in the US, but I am considering permanently residing in the US or elsewhere (perhaps somewhere in Europe or Canada) because I’ve become kinda disillusioned with Israel for a variety of reasons (the war in Gaza being one of them, the erosion of democracy by Likud being another, and etc) but is that cowardly to leave? Should I go back and try to change society or should I just leave for good? Thanks for your time.

southsamurai ,
@southsamurai@sh.itjust.works avatar

Well, I don’t have an emotional response to the shit going on there, so take this with that in mind.

There’s a few sides to your decision.

First, can you actually do anything? You’ve said no in other comments, so I assume that stays the same. It means that you aren’t morally obligated to go back for that reason. If you did have either current influence, or could realistically gain influence, to enact change within a reasonable time frame (say, under a decade), you might have that moral obligation. Might. But you don’t, so it’s personal choice.

Second, without an obligation to return, would it benefit you to go back? Do you have deep family ties? Do you have an established career? Do you have property that would need liquidating? If any of that is true, then the equation shifts to going back at least temporarily, and hoping things change, or that you can get out again later.

Third, are you sure anywhere else will take you? Long term visas or resident status aren’t exactly a guarantee, and immigration isn’t either. You’d need a plan, and at least a vague idea of what nation you want to settle in.

When it comes right down to it, the situation over there isn’t something most people would want to return to. That situation isn’t likely to resolve in the next year or two. So staying out makes sense if you can manage it. Jumping off a sinking ship isn’t a bad thing, and doing so earlier makes it less likely you get sucked down with it. It seems you think Israel is going down. If that’s the case, and you can’t prevent it, the sooner you make the semi permanent move away, the better.

Now, it is generally true that if everyone that could resist bad actions leaves a place, change becomes impossible. But there’s also the reality that not everyone that could resist really can. We’re not all cut out to fight governments and society. Not even passively. Hell, the older I get, the less I’m even willing to do because at some point, it’s meaningless.

But I gotta warn you, there’s no place on earth without problems. Right now, any major country is fucking with something very nasty. The U.S. is having our own struggle with fascism and oligarchy, and that’s also at least partially the case for Europe too. Canada is facing it, though it seems their government isn’t actively pursuing crimes against humanity. It isn’t just the western world, don’t think I’m saying that; that’s just where you mentioned wanting to settle. You simply aren’t going to land anywhere you mentioned and be in a country free of horrible actions.

ashkenaziisraeli OP ,

Yeah all good points. I guess it just seems like the rest of the West is still doing better than Israel.

southsamurai ,
@southsamurai@sh.itjust.works avatar

I do agree with you there, for sure. I’m not confident that will last past my lifetime, but it is currently not going totally off the wall.

It’s a difficult choice, no matter how you end up deciding.

RedSuns ,

I couldn’t have said this better. This is the best insightful response so far IMO.

OP I sincerely wish you well in whatever choice and/or path in life you take.

Wahots ,
@Wahots@pawb.social avatar

This is well written. On the last point, not just the democracies are struggling either. All the autocratic nations are also having big (and even scarier) problems such as major population crashes in the next 30 years (no more young people), economic rot that would make 2008’s great recession look pretty fucking chill, or systemic problems that have no peaceful, easy solutions.

_______ ,

I’ve quit jobs due to ethical disagreements, I’m sure I’d leave my home country if things got too bad. It wouldn’t be the country i grew up in anyways.

You do you, people will both agree and disagree with you no matter what you chose.

JackLSauce ,

Nobody can answer this question for you but I think to the countless examples of people not “getting out while they can” who are now–or were until their death–forever trapped in a bad situation that people today forget wasn’t that bad even within living memory

Is it right for you? I don’t know

Is it cowardly to let a sense of national loyalty compel you to be exposed to the mechanisms of government wielded by untrustworthy actors? No, and anybody saying otherwise is lying to you at best; lying to themselves at worst

Inb4 any what aboutisms: nothing I’ve said here is specific to any country

DerisionConsulting ,

If your wish to change things is the only thing that makes you want to go back, be honest with yourself, do you actually have the ability to change anything?

ashkenaziisraeli OP ,

Probably not

snooggums ,
@snooggums@midwest.social avatar

Do you want to try to change anything if you did have the ability?

If not, and you don’t plan on living there. then it just comes down to whether citizenship has some kind of positive for you like being able to freely travel or something like that.

ashkenaziisraeli OP ,

Well I’m fairly politically active, so kinda

Jackthelad ,

Yeah, this isn’t something that any of us can decide for you. And any views will be clouded by how people think on the Israel-Hamas conflict.

ashkenaziisraeli OP ,

Ironically I’m firmly in the middle on the conflict compared to a lot of what I’ve seen from the online left, but compared to most israeli policymakers, I am far left. It’s weird.

Jackthelad ,

To be fair, the current Israeli government has far-right members in it, so a centrist would look far-left in comparison!

ashkenaziisraeli OP ,

Yeah I’m just center-left, but that’s “far left” or even “extreme” left in the Israeli politics now…

altima_neo , (edited )
@altima_neo@lemmy.zip avatar

There’s certainly nothing “cowardly” about leaving. Live where you feel comfortable being. Wherever you feel happy.

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