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[Serious] Why do so many people seem to hate veganism?

Seen a lot of posts on Lemmy with vegan-adjacent sentiments but the comments are typically very critical of vegan ideas, even when they don’t come from vegans themselves. Why is this topic in particular so polarising on the internet? Especially since unlike politics for example, it seems like people don’t really get upset by it IRL

Everythingispenguins ,

I don’t hate vegans. I even dated one for a while. She would eat veggies, I would eat meat. It worked because neither of us were dismissive of the others choice.

I do hate being preached to. I think most people do. Many of my encounters with vegans were ones where they were very hostile to me. For just not being vegan. I wasn’t going around telling them veganism was bad or that they were a terrible person for being vegan. I have been told that by vegans. That I am a bad person for eating meat.

I have to eat meat I have always had a high metabolism. At various times in my life my maintenance diet had to be at least 3,000 calories. Plus of course any additional food needed for non maintenance activities. Additionally I’m allergic to soy. This means that it would be nearly impossible for me to have gotten enough food without eating meat. I am pretty certain that if I had not eaten meat and animal fat. I would have died as a child, or at best had serious issues with nutrition. I was well fed as a child. I could eat as much as I wanted, still many of my memories of childhood were ones of hunger.

I even explained this to someone once and they responded by saying “well you didn’t die” and then heavily implied they wish I did. As if me not dying made my point invalid.

This is why I am skeptical of vegans and vegan ideology. It is often toxic, and actively tries to hurt and shame people. Even people like me who are effectively choiceless in regards to eating meat.

Often even non-militant vegans will allow this behavior. I know how frustrating it can be to be told you need to police your own community. Though that doesn’t mean it’s okay to allow bad behavior amongst your peers.

icesentry ,

I’m not a vegan, but saying you need to eat meat because you ate around 3000 calories is a bit ridiculous. The fact that you are allergic to soy is way more of an issue than the calories. It’s really not that hard to eat a shit ton of calories with vegan food.

Hugh_Jeggs ,

I’m not a vegan either but I too read that comment as “I’m a fat fucker” 😂

Everythingispenguins ,

I have been extremely underweight my whole life. As a teen I was 30 to 40 lbs underweight.

Hugh_Jeggs ,

I’d sympathise but I don’t speak medieval weights. That could be as much as a duck or a cow for all I know, old bean

icesentry ,

No it’s not, 3000 calories isn’t that much for anyone that’s active. And that’s not at all how I read the comment. Like I said eating 3000 calories can easily be done with a vegan diet so I really don’t know how you interpreted that from my comment or OP’s comment.

Sizzler ,

They don’t realise how much soya is used as a filler in meat products I bet.

Everythingispenguins ,

First off ground beef, a steak, a whole chicken is not going to have soy filler.

Second most soy found in the process foods is soy lecithin. I don’t know why but I am not allergic to that.

I am very aware of how much soy is used as a filler because I have to avoid it.

Sizzler ,

Well colour me surprised. I don’t know why you aren’t allergic to it either.

Everythingispenguins ,

I really appreciate how you completely distilled my life in one comment without any understanding of the context. You basically did the exact same thing. That I was saying I found hurtful in my comment. Thanks

icesentry ,

What? I did none of that? I didn’t distill your entire life based on a single comment. All I’m saying is that high calorie food is not limited to animal products and saying it’s the reason you eat meat is weird. The reason you eat meat is your soy allergy, not any kind of high calorie need. There might be other reasons too, I’m not denying that, you just didn’t give any other, but the first one you mentioned is the calorie amount and that’s just a bullshit reason.

Everythingispenguins ,

Yeah there are other reasons but you know I didn’t really wanted to share them before. And now with your reaction I definitely don’t want to share them. Also you do know your maintenance diet is just the calories you need for your basic metabolic needs. It doesn’t take into account any calories needed to gain weight (something I have been trying to do all my life) or any activity. I remember days where I could have multiple 1200 to 1500 calories meals and still have snacks in between because I would get hungry between meals.

You call bs on me without having context. Yeah I didn’t share context for reasons. Maybe you shouldn’t attack someone when they say they have been attacked in the exact same way and found it hurtful.

icesentry ,

I don’t need context to know that eating 3000 calories is doable on a vegan diet. Not everything is about you. I specifically said, multiple times, that the only part I’m arguing is that you said needing a lot of calories is a reason to eat animal products. On its own it just isn’t true at all. You could need 1500 calories or 5000, it would still be possible for a human being to live on a vegan diet. It’s completely irrelevant to why you can’t eat a vegan diet. Like I said already, I’m sure there a reasons why you can’t eat a vegan diet and that’s completely fine, but needing 3000 calories is not a reason to not eat a vegan diet for anyone, including you.

I don’t know why you want to talk about maintenance calories vs calories to gain weight. It still doesn’t matter what the number is or for what reason you picked the number, you can eat any amount of calories you need on a vegan diet. You yourself probably can’t because of your allergy and other factors, but not because of the caloric content of vegan food. I just don’t know why you think calories are even relevant when talking about whether or not you eat a vegan diet.

Nikls94 ,

The one nutrient I for sure know vegans lack should be Vitamin A, since it’s not found in plants and the body has this weird thing of "the more beta carotene it converts into Vitamin A, the less effective it gets“ making it impossible to get the minimum recommended amount of it - and vitamin A deficiency could lead to depression.

Rekorse ,

I think its possible you meant b12? Its not found naturally in anything besides meat from my understanding but it is synthetically added in some common vegan staples like alternate milks

Nikls94 ,

No, not b12. That you can get from energy drinks like Monster as well. Specifically Vitamin A since beta carotene is a precursor to vitamin A and the human body has not the capability to solely live off. I don’t remember the study, but it said that the conversion rate became lower after prolonged Viramin A absence.

Rekorse ,

vegfaqs.com/vegan-sources-of-vitamin-a/

I picked the first resource off duckduckgo, read through most of it and it lines up with what I had thought.

And then here is about b12:

vegansociety.com/…/what-every-vegan-should-know-a…

yessikg ,
@yessikg@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Did you forget about carrots?

Nikls94 ,

Beta carotene is not vitamin A

yessikg ,
@yessikg@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I don’t know where you are getting your info but vitamin A is in several vegetables, including carrots, and fruits www.healthline.com/…/foods-high-in-vitamin-a#vege…

jjjalljs ,

If you accept that there are moral/ethical problems with eating meat (contribution to climate change, health concerns, animals being killed and eaten, whatever), and choose to eat meat anyway, and encounter a vegan, what has to happen?

You can accept that they are making a better choice, but then you have to accept that you’re making a worse choice. Most people are cowards and protect the ego at any cost. Rather than shrugging and saying “yeah, i should eat less meat. Good for you taking the high road”, which requires accepting that you’re not being the best, you can instead grab onto any reasons why no it’s really them that sucks. That’s easier, more comfortable, and doesn’t require any painful introspection or changes.

It’s the same mechanism when people get mad at cyclists, pedestrians, people who go to the gym, people who don’t shop at Walmart, whatever. They’re doing something that makes you feel bad in comparison. Most people are terrible at that and will lash out instead of doing anything productive.

Alternatively, or maybe additionally, people are really tribal, and once they adopt the idea that vegans (or cyclists, or people driving small cars, or people wearing sandals, whatever) are in the outgroup, then they enjoy being hostile to them.

People are ego driven emotional morons. All of us. Me, too. It’s terrible.

Treczoks ,

You can accept that they are making a better choice,

That’s exactly where it starts. You simply assume that vegans are the better people. And then you preach. That’s exactly what people dislike in vegans and similar people.

Obonga ,

No. It is one better choice. Does not say shit about the millions of other choices we do.

Treczoks ,

Thank you for preaching and proving my and others point.

Obonga ,

If the fact bothers you, maybe you should refrain from discussions on this topic. Or tell me why it is not a “better choice”.

Croquette ,

If we remove the ethic argument from the conversation, veganism is definitely a better choice for the planet, factually.

People have a hard time detaching their ego from the issue at hand. Since veganism is better for the planet, they are “better” in that specific area of their life.

But it doesn’t mean that vegans are better people than non-vegans, because we don’t know what else they do.

Eat meat if you want. I do. But I don’t feel personally attacked because vegans are right about the carbon footprint of meat, and they preach for it.

IamtheMorgz ,

That choice is steeped in privilege though, and I think it’s worth acknowledging that. Food choices are just something we shouldn’t be judging other people on, regardless of what those choices are. “Fed is best” applies through all stages of life.

Croquette ,

You are right, but we use this privilege to eat more meat instead of more vegetables. So my point still stands.

And even then, meat is way pricier than vegetables, so the privilege argument is shaky.

But as I said, assume the fact that you eat meat and that it is more damageable for the environment and after that, if you are in a position where you can afford to eat less or no meat, do it if you feel like it.

IamtheMorgz ,

Some people do, but it’s not as easy as “just eat better” for everyone. If we were arguing about how people aren’t eating healthy I think very few people would be frame it as just a choice.

Cheap meat, fast food (few if any veggie options, and basically no vegan ones) - these are staples of the poor. There’s a limit to how much rice and beans anyone wants to eat, especially when just getting a couple pounds of ground beef is a luxury. I don’t think it’s right to shame people for taking the beef. Or judging them for taking it.

I think if vegans want to change the world they should be campaigning against poor practices in the industry, not attacking the guy who just worked 16 hours at a minimum wage job and is choosing to grab a mcdouble rather than going home to cook a beyond burger. Is one better for the environment and world? Sure. But it’s not that guy’s fault the system is rigged in favor of the mcdouble, and reminding him of the fact that he’s making the world worse isn’t furthering the goal of making the world better.

Croquette ,

I understand your point and I agree. But a lot of privileged people (i’m included in that) should definitely consume less meat or none at all.

This is a strange argument that the problem with vegans is that they don’t do enough for the poor?

I haven’t seen any vegans protesting in a 7/11. It’s usually high end butcher or restaurants.

So again, I agree with what you say, but it doesn’t make sense in the current frame of discussion.

jjjalljs ,

“Making a better choice” doesn’t “make you a better person”, necessarily.

And also like I said in my post, just accept that you’re not always going to be a perfect person. None of us are. You don’t have to get mad at anyone else for that.

cmhe ,

You can accept that they are making a better choice, but then you have to accept that you’re making a worse choice.

No, people don’t dislike vegans or vegetarians because of their choices, they dislike them because they lord their, what they think “better” choice over others. And create in- and out- groups via labeling.

Being vegan or vegetarian means that you have to spend more money in the store to buy food, because meat is heavily subsidized compared to vegetarian options. Also, because being vegan/vegetarian is not the default, many products are overpriced.

Another point is that a healthy and varied diet using only vegan or vegetarian food doesn’t come so natural, so you have to research this more, which means you have to spend time, which again is a commodity.

So it is not just about good or bad, it is also about privilege and class. So people should not go around making statements about other people making “worse” choices.

UckyBon ,

Rice and beans are staples in poor countries. Meat is for the rich.

cmhe , (edited )

Yes. Meat is expensive, and should be expensive.

However meat replacement products cost even more, but they should be cheaper, because they are cheaper to produce.

Diary free ice cream is more expensive. Cow milk is cheaper than oat milk.

This isn’t just about not eating meat or animal products, this is the whole “vegan lifestyle” food that is unreasonable more expensive.

Like buying more expensive vegan salt or sugar instead of normal one.

And if you don’t do that, you are not a “true vegan™”. And the vegan police will come and get you!

“Oh, the pepper you just ate was fertilized by pig manure, sorry you aren’t vegan anymore. You should have bought the more expensive vegan pepper.”

Kacarott ,

I’m not sure why you are making up imaginary arguments. Have you ever heard anyone ever accuse someone else of “not being vegan anymore” because they ate a non vegan product? I know quite a few vegans, I try to be vegan myself (but quite often cave, cheese is delicious), and all the vegans I know would be simply thrilled to know that someone was making an effort at all. Literally no one cares if you aren’t 100% vegan, basically no one is anyway. But if you decide once a week to eat a vegan meal instead of a steak, great!! That’s still helping the planet, better for the animals, etc.

But making up these ridiculous vegan cliches doesn’t help anyone, it just makes more people annoyed at each other.

UckyBon ,

You don’t need to buy luxury items to eat healthy vegetables. Such a weird defense.

IamtheMorgz ,

The fact that you just think people should live more poorly and with less nutrition if they can’t afford the fru fru stuff is really disturbing.

I’ve been rive and beans only poor before. It sucked a lot. And on the rare occasion I could get some meat or cheese in my diet I definitely wasn’t in a position to be worried about which choice was “worse”. I just wanted some freaking variety. I should be able to have that. Everyone should.

Donate to your local food bank!

UckyBon ,

I just stated a fact. Not what I think nor what others should do. I do however think you underestimate how healthy vegetables are. I never said people should only eat rice and beans.

Now go and enjoy your flesh, because otherwise there won’t be variety (that sounds really dumb btw).

gmtom ,

Being vegan or vegetarian means that you have to spend more money in the store to buy food

no it doesnt? Im 1,000% willing to bet youve never been vegan before. Plant based diets are way cheaper, just go to your local store and look at eh price for a kilo of carrots or potatoes vs a a kilo of chicken.

Another point is that a healthy and varied diet using only vegan or vegetarian food doesn’t come so natural, so you have to research this more, which means you have to spend time, which again is a commodity.

also complete bullshit.

grrgyle ,

TIL beans are expensive and privileged.

Pardon my flippant remark. I couldn’t help myself. I appreciate you weighing in on this thread.

I can appreciate how avoiding animal products can seem challenging if you have no direct examples to refer to, but it’s really not. There are literally entire ethnic groups that live cradle to grave without eating meat.

Like for me growing up poor, a defacto vegetarian diet was the norm for us, so it’s just how I eat 90% of the time. Likewise, if you grew up around people who know about nutrition, you get used to planning your meals without relying on meat/dairy/etc to fill in the gaps.

I do believe it’s more ethical to avoid meat entirely, even though I myself don’t. I just try my best to keep it lower impact.

jjjalljs ,

No, people don’t dislike vegans or vegetarians because of their choices, they dislike them because they lord their, what they think “better” choice over others.

I’m not sure we agree on what “lording over” is. Like if someone says “Sorry, I can’t eat that, I’m vegan” is that lording it over you? Pretty much every vegan I’ve encountered has been polite, and at about the level of someone with a food allergy. Sometimes they check the ingredients label.

Wooki ,

Your first sentence answers the actual question.

Well…aCtUAllY

rsuri ,

Do-gooder derogation

Skkorm ,

The concept of being vegan originated from a newsletter for vegetarian recipes in the UK, in the '60s, I believe. It was purely for recipes. Veganism was an offshoot of this newsletter that, from day one, was far more ideological. The people who ran this newsletter immediately succumb to much of the infighting common amongst the vegan community online today. It wasn’t about a diet, it was about who could be the better person by being the most vegan.

I hate to break it to you, but vegans have been preachy and annoying since the concept originated.

Quexotic ,

I knew a vegan that tried to convince me that when vegans shit, it doesn’t stink. Guess what their shit smelled like… I’ll wait.

NoIWontPickAName ,

At least you know they’re getting their fiber over there.

Quexotic ,

Bean night was especially brutal. Good Lord.

Leviathan ,

I’ve never once in the last decade seen a single vegan post other than recipes. What I do see is constant posts about how “vegans are always throwing it my face/holier than thou”, “I’m gonna eat extra meat because vegans make me feel bad”. I really don’t think vegans are the problem, I think these fools fall for every single piece of beef industry propaganda that comes across their screens.

Cris_Color ,
@Cris_Color@lemmy.world avatar

As much as I’d like that to be true, I’ve definitely still seen vegan spaces online that are intensely alienating and hostile 😅 when I was using reddit, often anything from r/vegan that hit r/all was pretty hostile to anyone who hadn’t already decided it was an important issue for them and made big lifestyle changes accordingly, adopting veganism.

To be totally honest I’ve also never seen any beef industry propaganda encouraging people to hate vegans or resent veganism. If you can think of any examples off the top of your head I’d be curious to see them (if nothing comes to mind thats fine, I don’t intend that as a gotcha)

I’m not vegan (grew up with an eating disorder, not in any position to cut stuff out of my diet or make eating more complicated/difficult, though I have a lot of respect for vegan ethics) but I am a big nerd about open source stuff and linux, and I’ve observed similar things in that space. I have a friend who’s averse to open source stuff because folks have evangelized to her aggressively and with the same sort of superiority complex many folks perceive vegans as having. I’m grateful she’s excited to listen to me talk about the stuff I’m excited about anyway these days, but I’m careful not to make her feel pressured to drop proprietary software she’s using for open alternatives because I want her to feel respected even though she’s not invested in this thing I care about a whole lot

I think when you work hard to adopt a big change for reasons you’re proud of, it’s easy to view yourself as superior for having learned the thing, or made the dietary change

SoNick ,

Back on reddit there were those who had alerts set every time the word came up across the site, then they'd brigade the fitness and health subreddits with their vegan crew to derail any conversations. It was really annoying. No clue if that's still a problem because lolreddit

IamtheMorgz ,

The very first vegan I ever knew talked at me for 10 minutes about how I should go vegan. It was the only 10 minutes I knew her. I was 15, still living with my parents, didn’t have a way to get around, and my family was fairly poor. Oh, and my mother didn’t cook so much as unboxed dinner, because the kitchen was always filthy. I definitely walked away from that interaction feeling like I’d been told I was a terrible human who deserves to suffer by a rude principal. So yes, they definitely exist.

I’ve never met a Vegetarian that wasn’t chill about it, though.

I’m sure there are plenty of chill vegans too, but some of them come off like an annoying televangelist, in my experience.

kibiz0r ,

Cuz it itches the part of our brain that looks for status-seeking behavior and labels people as inauthentic.

Being vegetarian places a degree of exclusivity onto your consumer habits, and in the Western capitalist lens, conspicuous consumption has a lot to do with how we communicate our status.

Being vegan stands in direct relationship to vegetarianism as being even more exclusive. This does two things:

  1. It raises the stakes, because now the identity is even more exclusive because it’s more restrictive.
  2. It creates a pattern, where it looks as if you’re saying “Oh yeah? Well, I’m even vegetarianer! Take that! Look how cool I am!”

Just that in and of itself puts vegans on the receiving end of a whole bunch of cognitive biases.

But wait, there’s more!

Because mass production never lets a social identity go to waste, major brands got on board with explicitly labeling things as vegan, which starts to make it seem like you’re trying to be cool but really just deepthroating the corporate cock to “buy your way to cool”.

And then came the trends of organic/non-GMO, local-first, artisanal, farm-to-table, etc. etc.

At the point where Wal-Mart has their own artisanal farm-to-table cheese brand, it starts to look (to our dumb pattern-matching brains) like vegans are just rubes falling for the most basic version of an obviously fake status-seeking game propped up by cynical brands preying on how desperate you are to look cool.

But wait, there’s even more!

Because, surprise – our brains never actually stop caring about status, even if we think we’re just trying to make rational, objective, moral choices. Picturing yourself as a rebel for being vegan, taking the sneers and the insults in stride because you know it’s the right choice for the planet… is appealing.

And that self-aggrandizing image is inseparable from actually doing the thing, because that’s just how our brains work. Even for the most pure-hearted among us, thinking we’re morally superior – especially in tangible ways that we get to physically play out on a daily basis – is intoxicating.

So the people who are chuckling about the inauthenticity are… kind of right. But this same dynamic exists for literally everything. So when you chuckle at the vegan, but then take a moment to consider which kind of bacon really speaks to who you are as a consumer, you’re playing the same game. It’s just one that far more people are invested into. So if anyone calls it silly, nobody takes that criticism seriously. Not like your organic local-first artisanal acai kale kombutcha.

–

Basically my recollection of this episode of You Are Not So Smart: soundcloud.com/…/selling-out-andrew-potter

…which I listened to, for the first time, as an attempt at bonding with my then-girlfriend/now-wife’s roommate. We had not gotten along up until then, because she was aggressively vegan and I ate a lot of fast food. But I found out she liked podcasts and I was really enjoying this one and there was a new episode I hadn’t heard yet! She really enjoyed it, until the guest talked about veganism as a form of status-seeking. That didn’t go well. I didn’t mind taking over her half of the lease though.

howrar ,

then-girlfriend/now-wife’s roommate

Had to do a double take on this.

atkion ,

This is a great write-up, thanks for your take.

Grandwolf319 ,

I think it’s guilt actually. Most people deep down kind of know that eating meat is wrong, but if the whole world does it, you can’t be blamed cause you have no choice.

And then there comes someone who is not participating. Their existence breaks the logic above and implies that it’s a personal responsibility.

ASeriesOfPoorChoices ,

no.

(there may not be any stupid questions in this group, but there are stupid answers.)

Cris_Color ,
@Cris_Color@lemmy.world avatar

I think you’re pretty out of touch with how most folks experience eating meat. I don’t say this as a personal attack, but I think the emotional experience you’re ascribing to folks who do eat meat is inaccurate

Grandwolf319 ,

I mean, I eat meat and I know it’s wrong but it’s hard since everything is meat centric.

My response is just my personal take on the situations based on seeing how people reacted to my veggie sibling.

Cris_Color ,
@Cris_Color@lemmy.world avatar

I think thats fair, but I don’t get the impression most folks who eat meat consider it wrong at all, never mind in such a black and white way. I have a lot of respect for vegan ethics and even I have mixed feelings on whether I consider it explicitly wrong or immoral

Mrs_deWinter ,

I find that hard to believe tbh. Maybe if someone doesn’t think about it at all. But the second you do it should be pretty obvious that killing an animal and not killing an animal are different scenarios, and very generally speaking one of those is better than the other.

The only alternative I could think of would have to be based on the assumption that an animal’s life absolutely doesn’t matter at all, and I never did (nor would want to) meet anyone who honestly believed that.

IamtheMorgz ,

There are lots of people who believe this for religious reasons. Not saying I agree, just saying they absolutely exist.

Mrs_deWinter ,

Guess you’re right. But except for this scenario where your religion tells you it’s better to kill an animal than not to kill an animal, I would still expect most if not all ethical considerations to eventually conclude that not killing something is preferable. Otherwise I fail to see how someone could not agree with this as lowest common denominator.

Spacehooks ,

I wonder if how I feel about eating meat is how GOP feel about trump. Don’t care about facts makes me feel good. Like is being leftist to gop is how vegans feel to traditionalist?

NIB , (edited )

Most people think themselves as good people. Most people love, or claim to love, animals.

The existence of veganism and its implication is that there is an unnecessary animal holocaust happening, because of societal norms and for the entertainment of people’s palates. So how do you reconcile these things? By claiming that veganism is something extreme, something unattractive, something that is impossible to do.

People who talk about how “militant vegans have turned them away from veganism” are mostly lying to themselves. If an asshole told you not to litter, would you litter because of that? If an asshole told you to be atheist would you go “well now, i will be even more religious”? But when people make arguments like this, leftists realize how ridiculous those arguments are. Except when it comes to veganism.

Obviously you catch more bees with honey than with vinegar but i want to believe that people in this site can see past that and think for themselves.

Legumes(beans/lentils), vegetables, fruits, potatoes, pasta and rice is what most of the world already eats. Nowadays there are vegan alternatives for stuff and most restaurants often have a vegan option. It isnt hard to be vegan but any lifestyle change can be hard, especially if real life is putting a lot of pressure on you.

Any change is hard, being vegan is easy. Millions of people are vegan and have been vegan for many years. I have been vegan for 12 years now. There has never been an easier time to be vegan than now. Being vegan is the easiest and with the biggest impact thing you can do.

True Courage Is About Knowing Not When To Take A Life But When To Spare One

PS Salt potato chips and oreos are vegan. You dont need to eat healthy. And if you are a straight dude, vegan dudes are more attractive to women, even to non vegan women. It’s literally free +charisma in real life.

ASeriesOfPoorChoices ,

lol. no.

my favourite bs was your entire postscript. jeesus you’re deluded.

NIB ,

My entire postscript was just an attempt to make veganism more appealing. That extra little push might enable more people to become vegan. Which is why you see a lot more emphasis to the health benefits of veganism or the positive environmental impact of veganism.

These are things that might enable people to become vegan(or reduce their animal product consumption), because they dont make people feel attacked when you discuss these aspects of veganism. Ultimately, the animal doesnt care if it doesnt get killed(or created), because a human stopped eating animal products for the gains or because the human became a “woke” animal rights advocate. The end result is the same.

And while becoming “woke” is a more sustainable long term position, it can also be harder to sell to current mainstream because of social norms. And a lot of people might become vegan for the gains and then transition to be an animal rights advocate, because it is easier.

ASeriesOfPoorChoices ,

there are good reasons to become vegan, sure.

but everything you write is full of self-deluding, ego -stuffing lies.

howrar ,

I subsist off Doritos and Mountain Dew. Let all the ladies know. I’ll be waiting in my mom’s basement.

anon01 ,

Vegans are like Arch Linux users:

They make sure you know they are vegans.

milicent_bystandr ,

Round here we all have some beef with Ubuntu.

fiend_unpleasant ,
@fiend_unpleasant@lemmy.world avatar

dont talk about about beef. if the vegans catch wind of it they wont shut up for a week

milicent_bystandr ,

I can’t hear them over the Ubuntu protestors.

RealFknNito ,
@RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

Because nobody likes self aggrandizement. The perception that so many people only do it to make themselves appear to be better people because of their morally superior choice is often a vile taste to anyone who hasn’t made that same choice.

We all know eating meat is bad and for the many reasons for it. What we don’t want to hear is that someone made the switch and that their bleeding heart simply couldnt take it anymore.

I eat beyond meat and I do my best to transition, yet, I’d never say that for the purpose of making myself seem like a better person. Vegans typically do.

Postmortal_Pop ,

My personal experience has actually been quite whew opposite of everyone here apparently. Of the 3 vegans I’ve spent time with, not one of them has ever brought it up to preach or to sound smug. It only ever comes up because I ask for a recipe they served and they say something along the lines of “now, this is a vegan recipe, but you should be able to substitute ‘x’ with ‘y’ if you wanna avoid that.” It’s never preachy, it’s always in the “don’t let this being vegan ruin it for you” kind of way.

My low stakes conspiracy is that vegan hate on the internet is like people that don’t like the word moist. They either watched friends and decided to adopt that as a personality trait, or they look up to someone that did just that. They hate veganism because they watched a comedian quip about it and agreed or they saw someone that watched a comedian and agreed. It’s all too consistent to not be feeding from the same bowl.

IamtheMorgz ,

I’ve not had this experience with vegans because I don’t really know many people who are vegan, but I always find it funny when a vegetarian says something like “you could add chicken or beef if you wanted” when the whole point of asking for the recipe is that you liked it enough to try to make it again… It’s kind of adorable and sweet.

Postmortal_Pop ,

Yeah I find it delightful, it’s inspired me to make vegan, gluten, free, and allergen free variations of all my recipes incase someone ever needs them.

gmtom ,

Yeah. I think 90% of these guys complaining about militant vegans have never actually come across one. But have heard sotries about them from other people or the news and just assimilated that as part of their own experience. Much in the same way racists here stories about how bad immigrrants are from newpapers and use that to form their opinions.

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

It’s not the diet or anything that bothers me; it’s the vegans themselves. They’re basically religious zealots but for food. If a meat eating atheist went around yelling at vegetarians and theists in unrelated discussions, I’d hate them too.

SupraMario ,

Militant vegans…and their very small world view.

Beaver ,
@Beaver@lemmy.ca avatar

Funny you should say that when veganism is about considering the suffering of other species and of climate breakdown.

dodgy_bagel ,

I have never, ever, heard someone in real life bring up veganism unless it was specifically in the context of what they eat.

The problem is, it comes up. Food is a very foundational element of social life. Sharing a meal is important, providing a meal as a host is important, and supplying food at events is customary.

Rejecting the offer to put something in their body is misunderstood as an insult.

hydrospanner ,

This is a good point, although maybe I’m just unlucky, but quite a few times over the years, I’ve encountered friends, and friends of friends, who were vegetarian or vegan and seemed to make a primary hobby out of shoe-horning that information into any and every conversation they could. And every time, it was very deliberately and openly presented in a way to praise themselves and demonize anyone not like them.

Not only is food very foundational, as you’ve said, but I also strongly feel that a reason this particular set of -isms is such a lightning rod is because (perhaps due in large part to that foundational aspect of food in society), it seems like vegetarianism and veganism very much becomes who someone is, as opposed to simply describing an aspect of their lifestyle.

Not only that, but it becomes a part of their Identity in a way that frequently impacts the people around them.

So someone is a Catholic. That’s cool. I’m not one and I might have my issues with the Catholic church, but unless they’re extremely devout, chances are, their Catholicism is more “how they worship” and less “who they are” in everyday interaction. It just isn’t likely to affect me, and as such I’m much less likely to really care. As such, I’m cool with Catholics. Add to that: most Catholic people aren’t painting their religious belief in superiority either overtly or implicitly these days. They’re just going to mass on Sunday and doing their thing.

On the other hand, someone is vegan. That’s also cool. I might have preferences and a lifestyle that conflicts with their views and vice versa but we can coexist, and our preferences on what to eat won’t ever lead to conflict between us, right? Well…if they’re a coworker…or a member of a friend group, now any and every time that group of people wants to eat, that foundational aspect of society, now the group must accommodate that -ism which they don’t share. And that’s probably fine for everyone in the group sometimes…and some of the group all the time…but generally speaking, looking at all of the group, all of the time, that’s statistically likely to eventually rankle at least a few people. Then, depending on the individual, there’s a very real chance that they eat with this group, some of which may already be annoyed by having their food options limited by the choices of this individual…and on top of it, that individual takes that opportunity to make a comment that invokes morality into the situation…and it should come as little surprise that this type of person gets a generalized negative reputation.

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