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Potfarmer ,

I find the motion sensing and gps tracking to be the creepiest. Using motion sensing they can know when you put your phone down and pick it up, if it was screen down or face up, and knows when you are walking, running, driving, etc. Combined with GPS it can be used to pretty accurately judge when you wake up, where you go, and how you get there. Lots of apps also don’t “close” when you swipe it away, they continue running in the background, so if you have the setting “only collect data when using the app” it will still collect data until you close it in the background or force stop it.

tweeks ,

That’s true, although I believe you still have to give permission to an app to use this (at least on Android). Not to say that people won’t accept things way too fast.

Mikina ,

The biggest problem i have with my data being collected, analyzed and used is in the fact that it will almost certainly be used to teach a ML model about how to better manipulate with people like me - the people that are privacy conscious and are trying as much as possible to reduce their fingerprint.

That data is invaluable, and if there does exist a way how to target even people like that, which there probably does since we’re only humans after all, the ML model will eventually figure it out. And they have literally billions of people to experiment and learn on.

Now, we already know from a few leaked studies made by Facebook that they cab already pretty well manipulate people into mostly whatever they choose. Take a hypothetical situation where you get a crazy out-of-touch billionaire, who decides to buy a large social network company, and then decides “Hey, I really want this candidate to win. Tune up the algorithms!”.

And the ML models will get a clear goal, that has been already proven to just work pretty well at influencing user behavior. And any data you give them, it helps the model to fine tune into influencing people like you . Which would also be really hard to prove, because ML models are by definition black boxes that are really hard to reverse engineer, and proving that it was trained to do this is AFAIK almost impossible.

I don’t want no part in that. Thankfully, all the large social networks have CEOs that are reasonable and would never try something like that, right?

And one more thing - you may not think that data about your behavior are of interest to anyone right now. But look at China and their Social Credit. And imagine how would have I.e holocaust turned out, if the government had access to all the data, opinions and profiles of people that are being collected now.

Oh, you mentioned you sympathize with the Jews three years ago in a private message? Well, let’s hope the country you live in never ends up in a situation where that could be a huge problem for you or your family.

So, every time any site is offering a “personalized, curated list” for you (I.e the google search result, or YouTube recommended videos), assume you are potentionally being manipulated, and avoid the site altogether- because there’s no other way how to prevent it. The ML model knows that you know, and is already trying to figure out how to manipulate people that are taking care not to be. And if there is a way, it will figure it out with some success.

Bitrot ,

The potential future authoritarian government has been my primary concern when it comes to data collection and profiling by corporations like Google and Meta for years. The governments don’t even have to build their information gathering networks, although they still will, but so much of the surveillance has been done for them, goes back years (literally an entire lifetime for many people now), and is just a request away. I can’t judge how the climate will be in two years, let alone a decade or two from now, but that information isn’t going anywhere.

Aceticon ,

Depending on permissions, just about everything.

The more worrisome of these would be all your contacts, your location (even with Location permissions denied it can still be extrapolated up to a point if allowed to access to information on “WiFi networks nearby”) - which can be used to derive workplace, living place, hobbies and, when crossed with other people’s data, even who you regularly meet with - call history, files in your phone (such as personal photos and stuff you downloaded), sites visited and, even more seriously, actually record what’s being said around your phone and even image as well as track something as intimate as how your phone (and hence you, if its in a pocket) move and when.

All of this is beyond the whole tracking of app usage (what do you do, see and for how long in it) which at least makes some sense to track for quality improvement.

That said, what makes it a problem is not that the app can get that infomation from the phone’s systems but that it can, without your authorization, send it all to a central server - if it couldn’t do the latter all that data capture for processing inside your phone would be absolutelly fine.

ohwhatfollyisman ,

apart from all the stuff already mentioned, some apps arise from a really insidious industry: blackmail through personal loan apps.

these apps fetch your contact details and the scumbags behind them exploit this info at your cost.

here’s a bbc expose on this with more info: www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-66964510

and then there’s sms. especially when bank balance alerts are sent, that’s gold for marketers.

lemmie689 ,
@lemmie689@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

This app crossed the line

In a report released last month, privacy commissioners said people who downloaded the Tim Hortons app had their movements tracked and recorded every few minutes — even when the app was not open on their phones.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/tim-hortons-app-1.6536175

Nighed ,

Would they not have had to give access to location services for this to happen though? Google is very good at giving me a “only while using this app” option for this kind of stuff now.

darganon ,

They surely agreed to it, the mixup is that people in general don’t realize how much data and how often Tim Horton’s wants to collect it.

Tim Horton’s should probably just know which Tim Horton’s you’re closest to when you go to place an order, and that’s about it. There’s no reason they should even be allowed to ask to track you all day every day, even if you agree.

That’s sort of the gist of it.

otp ,

I installed the McDonalds app years ago and it asked for location permissions. I turned them off. But it didn’t want to let me place a pickup order or something unless I was within a certain range of the restaurant. So sure, I’ll turn it on. This was a version of Android before “Only this time” options existed.

Of course, I forgot to turn it back off. A few days later, I got a notification from the app that I was near a McDonalds – how about ordering some fries?

I uninstalled the app and never looked back. Actually, since then, I’ve been kind of avoiding McDonalds. They price their stuff knowing that people will get discounts through the app…but no way am I getting that again.

darganon ,

That’s pretty gross, but the fries are tasty!

Bitrot ,

A surprising number of restaurants ask for the “all the time” permission and hide it with “so we know when you’re almost here”.

otp ,

Don’t worry, they gave everyone a stale donut and an apology email as part of their class action lawsuit punishment.

ArtVandelay ,
@ArtVandelay@lemmy.world avatar

Data scientist here! In addition to the data points others have mentioned, there is actually a lot more data available than you would think in the form of metadata. We call the process feature engineering - essentially building a set of inputs that help determine an output, or prediction. How long you spend in the app, how long you stay on a screen before changing, how long you view a TikTok before swiping, which of the default settings you change, into what, all of this is used in machine learning models to help build a more accurate advertiser profile for you. Even if you don’t volunteer data about yourself, your behavior in a way informs on you, even if you don’t realize it. Through inference, a machine learning model could accurately deduce your age based on your behavior, for example.

dependencyinjection ,

Do you have an example on the last sentence. How inference could be used to deduce your age based on behaviour?

Or something to read up on the topic. Sounds intriguing.

tonyn ,

So, the goal typically is to gather as much information about a user in order to define a profile that advertisers will use to serve ads that are more relevant to the end user? Is there any other end goal, such as to build a better app or inform decisions that will ultimately lead to a better user experience?

Cheers ,

And if this sounds dystopian to you.

I anecdotally got into a CEO data conference, where leaders were discussing strategy and tactics. Biggest topic of the day was, why can’t I track how many times someone sees my physical store/billboard/sign and makes a decision. Geofencing + your cellphone GPS isn’t accurate enough for these guys, they want to know how long you stared at the store, what made you move in, what demographics you belong to, and how can they maximize your likelihood to purchase more stuff.

Why does this matter? People are more likely to buy more stuff in a store wandering around than on a market place where they just swap tabs to get the same thing from somewhere else.

If I can make my store front like temu to get you in and keep you there, then it’s likely you’ll be interested in buying more stuff you didn’t know you wanted.

ArtVandelay ,
@ArtVandelay@lemmy.world avatar

Yep, I’ve been at conferences for data science where I hear talking about tracking position in a store using things like Apple air tags for the same reason.

akwd169 ,

Art Vandelay

I thought you were an importer

Rediphile , (edited )

When most people talk about companies ‘stealing’ their data, it’s just companies doing what they explicitly stated in the terms and conditions and these people agreed to.

The whole Google incognito mode drama right now is a great example of this. It literally always said ‘incognito will not prevent employers, websites you visit, or your ISP from collecting data’ when opening a incognito tab. So yeah, obviously Google also knows what you are looking up and they never implied otherwise at all.

Edit: A lot of down votes, but no one ever clarified how and when exactly it was that Google was misleading. And if there actually is anyone who was legit surprised by this whole thing, can you please explain to me what you thought incognito mode did exactly?.. And if there isn’t anyone who was surprised, as seems the case so far…that’s sort of my point.

db2 ,

Suck that corporate teat harder.

Rediphile ,

-Sent from my iPhone

DebatableRaccoon ,

That serves your case less than you realise. Most people facing this invasion of privacy trust Apple even less.

Rediphile ,

I also trust Apple less…

otter ,

they explicitly stated in the terms and conditions and these people agreed to

Unwieldy TOS’ have already been found to not be enough because no reasonable person reads all of it. It also doesn’t answer OPs questions

The whole Google incognito mode drama right now is a great example of this. It literally always said ‘incognito will not prevent employers, websites you visit, or your ISP from collecting data’ when opening a incognito tab. So yeah, obviously Google also knows what you are looking up and they never implied otherwise at all.

That’s not what the lawsuit is about, and even if that was the point, which one of “employers, websites you visit, or your ISP” is Google/the browser?

Rediphile ,

And yet I somehow knew Google was collecting my personal info because it was obvious. That’s the entire point of the company lol.

When someone searches ‘big donkey dicks’ in the url bar … where exactly did they think the browser was pulling those results from? Could it be a website… called Google?

It did exactly what it was described as doing it, which is basically no cookies and no user history (for the user or other users of their computer to see). The TV commercials about buying presents for loved ones never implied anything more.

otter ,

And yet I somehow knew Google was collecting my personal info because it was obvious. That’s the entire point of the company lol.

‘People should have known this company would be misleading/lying’ isn’t a defence for what a company does

where exactly did they think the browser was pulling those results from? Could it be a website… called Google?

This is the important bit. Since Google handles both the browser and the search engine, that’s where there’s the potential for confusion (and what the court is deciding on). So basically: did the tracking only kick in when using a Google managed website, or was it happening on the browser level (for everyone regardless of what website they used).

Personally I agree that there are bigger issues to deal with

Burninator05 ,

Except Google isn’t my employer or my ISP and (increasingly) isn’t the website I visited.

Rediphile ,

Yeah I’m sure you type in the full url yourself each time, that’s what everyone does right?

TootSweet ,

Aside from what everyone else has said, also:

KpntAutismus ,

they mostly do it either because they can sell the data, or can display “more relevant” ads to you, so they can charge advertisers more.

FuglyDuck ,
@FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

Both, really. They do both.

gorysubparbagel ,

Along with what others said, things you are interested in, demographic data, etc. The content you choose to watch on tiktok or products you click on on temu reveals a lot of valuable information about what ads might be most effective on you so they can target ads to you.

originalucifer ,
@originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com avatar

simple, valid personal information can be valuable in aggregate. it is accumulated and sold to ad companies.

these apps are often given permission to look through your phone and report back other data.. more than 'simple'. browsing/shopping history at best, account creds at worst.. its mostly for the same reason; advertising.

db2 ,

Phone number, email, anything else you put in, plus device and connection data. Also, depending on the app, it could steal passwords, cookies, banking info, etc.

sxan ,
@sxan@midwest.social avatar

TikTok in particular grabs a list of other installed apps and your entire contacts list as well, IIRC.

Cinner Bot ,

Many social media/messenger apps take your contact list and if deny the request it will disable features.

RightHandOfIkaros ,

Apps are also interested in how long you stay on a particular page, whether you tap on any ads, and how often you visit particular parts of the application.

The theft is not generally that they’re collecting the data, the theft comes from them not paying you for it, and also usually not telling you they are collecting it. Taking something of value from someone without compensation and permission.

In terms of what they do with it, it isn’t really important since the theft has already happened. But usually the data is sold to advertising agencies, or other application developers, sometimes it is used for research, and it can often make its way to illegal blackmarkets as well depending on the source of the data.

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

they can also collect much more depending on which permissions it has. IIRC some sensors like movement are not behind permissions.

some collect your behaviour online to extrapolate your personality, habits and to predict you and manipulate you too, thats scarier imo.

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