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BeautifulMind ,
@BeautifulMind@lemmy.world avatar

Well, I’ve traded burning fuel for burning internet and electricity at my home. My electricity at home is mostly solar (from my roof) and hydro from the grid (I live in Washington State).

Working from home spares me ~20 uncompensated transit hours a week, so the emissions difference (whether I use transit or drive) is substantial and so is the cost savings (in fuel and parking). FWIW, my employer will pay for my transit fares (but not fuel or parking) and that’s nice and all, but I’m squeamish about transit during flu/covid season because of all those coughing people going in to jobs that don’t encourage them to stay home while sick.

I’m able to work more hours when I do it from home because I’m not constrained by transit schedules/catching the last train out of town, and that way I still come out ahead in terms of having time with my kids, and I have time to take grocery shopping and meal planning and prep off of my wife’s plate.

It’s better this way, not just in terms of cost and environmental impact and quality of life, but productivity-wise.

NigelFrobisher ,

There are so many CEOs putting their own private portfolio over the companies they supposedly run having a high staff attrition, and yet “they command such big salaries because they take on so much risk”.

Chocrates ,

I have heard this but do we have any evidence?

It makes sense, but gotta be able to prove it.

DrunkenPirate ,

People who live in caves all the time cut emissions by 95%.

DrunkenPirate ,

This is far better: People who live without social media all the time cut emissions by 66%.

dingus ,
@dingus@lemmy.ml avatar

People who eat more beans cut the cheese.

idiomaddict ,

Only at first

AlwaysNowNeverNotMe ,
@AlwaysNowNeverNotMe@kbin.social avatar

People who die cut emissions 100%

a4ng3l ,

Wouldn’t the decay of one’s be a source of emission?

Event_Horizon5 ,

Yeah but that only takes a couple months even in bad conditions.

GissaMittJobb , (edited )

That’s probably primarily a consequence of bad zoning and transportation policy in the U.S - higher density zoning and public transportation/cycling infrastructure would address this more than enough.

Slapping a WFH-band aid on top of this mess doesn’t really address the root cause. That’s not to say you shouldn’t be able to WFH - work whichever way suits you best - but I don’t find this particular argument compelling as for a reason to advocate for WFH.

0110010001100010 OP ,
@0110010001100010@lemmy.world avatar

100% agree, we (the US) truly need better city layouts and public transportation. However, it’s nice to see more arguments that are “pro WFH” that aren’t just talking about the employees themselves or productivity. Not that it’s likely to change the path of management but it’s still welcome.

AllonzeeLV ,

If the American owner class has taught Americans paying any attention the last century anything about how they operate, it’s “Fuck the commons/planet/species/future, burn it all if it makes me a dollar slightly faster!”

Profit in this case being all the corporate park land they own. Propagating human misery at every step for nothing more than to run up their capital ego score, that doesn’t even effect their living conditions at all.

Good thing they don’t consider their victims, people without significant net worth, human.

AnonTwo ,

Does it even make them any money if someone is inside the building? It seems more like justifying a purchase that didn't pan out.

idiomaddict ,

Corporate real estate is over represented in investments, so the loss is through the stock market, not the company directly

Edit: I actually don’t know if that’s true, but it’s the theory

Kichae ,

While a lot of people work for big companies that may have commercial real estate holdings or are invested in REITs or something, most companies pulling workers back are not. And, indeed, they're run by people that are choosing to pay for the privilege of lording their station over the hired help -- though not to the employees, and many of them not purposefully.

They're just taking productivity hits while swearing up and down that we're all lazy thieves who don't do a thing all day while not in the panopticon.

AllonzeeLV ,

It’s about holding value for them. Small/medium businesses paying rent in perpetuity to the corporate owners of business complexes. Yes, they’d rather others suffer and the planet burn if it means their capital investment is reaping dividends.

That’s why we’re on the brink, it’s not like man made climate change hasn’t been known for half a century. Our owners only care about their capital scores. They destroyed our republic and captured our government that was supposed to regulate/check them for us to increase their capital scores. They’re destroying the climate and hobbling the species for generations to increase their capital scores.

Why does everyone act surprised when our owner class acts like sociopaths? Thats why they’re in our owner class to begin with. Welcome to America, where practiced sociopathy gets you a corner office, and practiced prosocial vocations and empathy gets you a cardboard box on the sidewalk.

cnbc.com/…/the-wealthiest-10percent-of-americans-…

baronvonj ,
@baronvonj@lemmy.world avatar

Your employer isn’t earning money by having you in the office. But they are losing money on the lease or mortgage for the property if you’re not in the office.

eltimablo ,

No, but it makes the cities where those buildings reside a boatload of tax revenue. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that a lot of the "return to office" propaganda was coming from local governments freaking out about the abrupt downturn in tax income from commuters.

Montagge ,
@Montagge@kbin.social avatar

In the two weeks since my work mandated three days in the office I've spent $150 on gas. Awesome.
Granted part of that reason is the car broke down and I had to drive the truck.

fne8w2ah ,

Non-existent public transport much?

yoz , (edited )

right but the issue is not environment pollution , its the real estate. They all are empty so fuck the environment and bring yo 9-5 ass to office.

jcit878 ,

i also think theres an inherent bias that ‘leaders’ tend to be more extroverted and see more value in people ‘being together’, and to an extent, at least in my observed experience, are unwilling to acknowledge the fact its not the same for everyone

Stovetop ,

It is downright malicious in many cases, though. A lot of times, business owners will be renting the property their office is based out of, and that property ends up being owned by a family member or friend (or they themselves) who then get to bill the company for quite a sum without that being considered payroll. If they lose the office, they lose money, and that’s all they care about.

Rentlar ,

‘Leaders’ also tend to own an outsize amount of real estate as well.

solstice ,

I’m deeply introverted but prefer in-office. I’m in a leadership position and gently encourage staff to work in office too when possible. It’s not for socializing and awful pizza parties, and you don’t have to tell me about your weekend hobbies if you don’t want to.

For me it’s mainly because my work requires technical skills, problem solving, and creativity, which means it’s very helpful for me to know my staff really well in order to properly review their work. If I see something that looks odd it’s really helpful to know ‘Mary did this and that’s her strength so I’m probably wrong’ or ‘Steve did this and he sucks in this area so it probably is wrong’ etc. WFH removes all that and everyone is just a disembodied talking head, or worse, emails and texts only, so I have no idea who I’m talking to.

I truly get the allure and I still wfh when appropriate but again I encourage in office as much as possible.

mayo ,

Ugh I really want to out the company I work at. Of all companies we should be going and advocating for remote.

But we aren’t. ‘Because being with each is SO valuable’.

SupraMario ,

$100 says you’re company is either stuck in a lease with their building or owns it outright…so glad I work for a WFH company that started that way 20 years ago and never went to having offices.

mayo ,

Lol no I wish!

I swear to god we just had all our leases expire and chose to renew ALL OF THEMMMM.

In fact, for the main office we’ve just signed a new multi-year lease in a new building. It’s smaller tho. Renovations currently in progress.

But no raises. Times are too tough.

SupraMario ,

Wow that’s some idiotic level of thinking from management. What a bunch of narcissistic jackasses

mayo ,

(Also no to ownership. All the offices are leased.)

Spaniard ,
@Spaniard@lemmy.world avatar

Mi company offer 50% WFH because there is not enough space in the office for everyone

electrogamerman ,

$100 says you’re company is either stuck in a lease with their building or owns it outright

But why exactly would that mean “no WFH”?

Stuck in a lease? Its not like if people WFH or W in the office the lease would decrease. On the contrary. less people means less bills to pay. (Same for owning the building), in this case just rent it for something else.

SupraMario ,

I’m not saying it makes sense, it’s just old school idiots running these companies who think ass in chair is more productive. They’re just sociopath control freaks.

MystikIncarnate ,

The only thing about the 54% number, for me, is that it’s not higher.

This shouldn’t be news to anyone.

underisk ,
@underisk@lemmy.ml avatar

I’m not sure the people making the decisions about work from home have any concern for its effect on carbon emissions.

WindowsEnjoyer ,

I am like infinitive times more productive when working from home. I am voluntarely coming to office usually 1 day per week and oh boy I don’t work in office. Vaping, walking around, chatting, meetings, vaping, snacks, walk outside.

I think I will become pro-office at some point lol. 😅

CharlesDarwin ,
@CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world avatar

Yep, and if you have management that still values presenteeism over actual work (because it massages their ego), the 20%-40% reduction in productivity while AT work will go unnoticed, most likely.

ParsnipWitch ,

Interesting. When the impact of individuals on the environment is discussed, a huge number of users here can’t stress enough how the effort of the people doesn’t matter and is irrelevant.

Stop eating meat and dairy, not buying plastic wrapped stuff, using public transport,… That’s all of no use and no one should even dare to mention it since this is all just propaganda by big corporations.

Unless it’s about home office. Suddenly there is great agreement that we have to do home office to save the climate! It almost seems like for a lot of people it’s not so much about protecting the climate, but about not taking up responsibility when it’s uncomfortable.

random65837 ,

Stop eating meat and dairy,

SURE!!! Because aside from the fact of all the carbon-neutral farms out there at this point, which aside from them going that way for tax credits is irrelevant, that actually puts back into the soil and regenerates our literally dead soil. Pretty different story from all the mono-cropping destruction that’s happening otherwise.

But those evil cow farts right??? When cows aren’t fed trash corn and grain and actually graze on grass like they’re supposed to, the gas isn’t a problem, not that it is anyways. But then you’d lose the talking point for plant based eating, wouldn’t ya? Most emmisions are from transportation, which is happening either way. Nice try.

MoonManKipper ,

If your job really can be done as well 100% from home (as many people insist) then you’ve got a problem - because that means it can be done as well 100% from home by some onefrom India or similar and they’ll be cheaper. Be careful what you wish for.

I’m of the view that actually this isn’t true for a lot of jobs, particular anything that involves interacting in a team, just people wish it was.

Oneobi ,

It’s not the job tho, it’s the competence and calibre of the individual.

I spend far too much time unpicking poor workmanship from outsourced colleagues.

You pay peanuts, you get what?

MoonManKipper ,

Exactly - it’s the calibre and competence - and implicit in your comment is the idea the person from India isn’t as good. This isn’t my experience- I know plenty of amazing engineers from India. And it’s not outsourcing if they’re employed by the company- it’s just the job currently done by you.

Oneobi ,

You, my friend, need to introduce me to these people.

The bright sparks don’t hang around.

Trainguyrom ,

My experience with outsourced folks from extremely low wage countries is that the quality of the work is extremely low.

I read once that in many of those countries that many companies outsource to there’s 3 tiers of tech workers, and every tech worker is trying to get to the third tier as quickly as possible: those good enough to work in tech locally, those good enough to work in tech locally for an overseas firm, and those good enough to work in tech for an overseas firm and gain a visa to get the heck out of the country.

The poor quality work from low wage outsourced labor makes it very easy to let sentiments in the same vein as racism sink in, so one always has to be careful not to let those sentiments transition into racism. But just because some anti-outsourcing sentiment comes from racism and some comes from poor quality work doesn’t mean that complaints of poor quality work from outsourced workers directly comes from racism

Zeth0s ,

My job can be done 100% remotely. While in office I am “remote”, because team is displaced among different cities.

If an Indian can do better than me, it’s fair, they can take it. I am not racist. If my company outsource my job in India to save money, I am happy I won’t be working there anymore. A company that value a quick, short term saving over its employees is a bad company. They’d have anyway to re insource my position in 5 years anyway, we know how this things work

MoonManKipper ,

It’s not outsourcing if they’re employed by your company, just remote working - they’ll be the employee and the company can care for them as much. They’ll just be more productive because of lower cost of living where they happen to live. If your job can be done fine 100% why would they ever change it back? Remote working isn’t the same as insource/outsource

Zeth0s ,

If they can do that, with better results than what I can offer, I am fine with that. Good luck to all people involved. I’ll survive.

To be fair they could already do it. As said we are all “remote” among offices. They have never done it. And I am not afraid for my position.

Ertebolle ,

Yeah, but they deprive their bosses of the opportunity to walk into the building and have everybody who meets them say "Good Morning Mr. Analwart Sir" before shutting their office door and playing Minesweeper for 3 hours

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