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navi ,
@navi@lemmy.tespia.org avatar

Can they go after restaurants adding mandatory 20% fees? I don’t mind paying more to pay for ethical pay for employees but adding a mandatory 20% free us just lying about menu prices. It should illegal. Just bake the price into the menu prices.

artichokecustard ,

where do you live that tipping is mandatory? or are you talking about something else?

navi ,
@navi@lemmy.tespia.org avatar

It is essentially a tip, but it’s listed on the bottom of the menu as a mandatory service charge. The restaurant keeps the money (it’s not split like case tips) and just pay the employees a good wage without them relying on tips.

It’s good in theory but it’s dishonest pricing.

Buddahriffic ,

Yeah, I’d say the same about any “fees” that get tacked on above any advertised prices. The only time it shouldn’t be included in an advertised price is when it doesn’t scale with number of things purchased. So a % fee would always be included, but flat fees can be separated (like if they had a table charge or something that didn’t change based on how much food was ordered).

Online shop “convenience” fees are at the top of my mind for this. Especially because there’s even more convenience on the merchant’s side due to how websites scale vs brick and mortar shops. They might have to pay large salaries to developers and IT people (emphasis on “might”), but that’ll be much less than the leases and staffing costs to open physical stores to serve the same size of market.

shalafi ,

Agreed. The only fee I can swallow is mom-and-pop stores and governments charging a small fee for credit card processing.

In the government’s case, law only provides for them to charge $X and they must gather $X. They can’t make up for the provider fees. Legislation should roll that into consideration moving forward.

Buddahriffic ,

Or even better, create a public payment infrastructure that isn’t predatory to both merchants and consumers. Finance being a private industry instead of a public service is a part of the problem.

But I agree that that is an example of a good use of fees. “Oh, if you do this thing, it costs more money to service you, so rather than pricing it in for everyone regardless of whether they do it, just charge the difference when it is done.”

shalafi , (edited )

This is Capitalism 101 my friend. Don’t go to those places. They’ll kill themselves off or adjust. As an exercise to the student, explain why you have to give such cretinous establishments your money.

As to voluntary tips, funny thing, you only see consumers complaining, never the wait staff. Worked at a payroll firm that serviced several local restaurants and brother, some of those people make bank.

lolcatnip ,

They’d be complaining if people actually treated tips as voluntary. Everyone knows you’re breaking the social contract if you don’t tip.

MisterFrog ,
@MisterFrog@lemmy.world avatar

You know what’s way, way more effective than the invisible hand of the “free” market? Regulation. Hidden fees at restaurants are almost non-existent here in Australia, and if you ever encounter one, because it’s illegal, you can just not pay it, what are they gonna do? And so the business either quickly stops doing it, or they end up with a fine from the ACCC 🤗

Also, as a former cafe employee, let me tell ya, I was much happier being paid a guaranteed wage than relying on tips. Which for morality’s sake, is practically another hidden fee.

shalafi ,

So not giving such places money is a non-option?

MisterFrog ,
@MisterFrog@lemmy.world avatar

It’s called a hidden fee for a reason, it’s hidden from you. So, yeah, it’s a non-option for first time patrons.

Why are you defending these business? Inb4 you say, I’m not, but the free market will correct this! The “free” market clearly isn’t, because we’re talking about it right now lol, hidden fees are common place in many places in the US.

And regulation (in Australia, for this issue), clearly IS working, because this is practically unheard of here.

cyborganism ,

Finally.

I hope it ends with better results than that poor attempt that they did in Canada.

disguy_ovahea , (edited )

Price fixing is temporary, and doomed to fail in the long term. Nixon tried it with an Executive Order and it was a disaster. It caused supply chain constraints and prices shot well past inflation when the Order expired.

Congressional legislation setting grocery store presentation limits would increase brand variety, foster competitive pricing, and put an end to the corporate control over pricing.

shalafi ,

What are presentation limits?

disguy_ovahea , (edited )

Limiting the number of products and facings in a store by percent of available retail space.

Limiting the number of products alone doesn’t suffice, because larger companies will pay retailers to increase the number of facings of a product to keep out competition in that product space.

reddig33 ,

FTC head should be putting a halt on the Kroger+Albertsons merger if he’s really serious.

SeaJ ,

She

But you are correct. My state is suing to prevent that since that would make them a huge percentage of the market and create many areas with no competition.

TexasDrunk ,

But didn’t you hear? Less competition makes prices go down. The head of Kroger said so!!!

lolcatnip ,

You know things are getting bad when even capitalists are arguing against market economics.

TexasDrunk ,

“We believe the way to be America’s best grocer is to provide great value by consistently lowering prices and offering more choices. When we do this, more customers shop with us and buy more groceries, which allows us to reinvest in even lower prices, a better shopping experience, and higher wages,” said Rodney McMullen, chairman and CEO of Kroger.

It’s a load of tripe. All these big companies come in with lower prices, drive their local competition out of business, then raise them once they’ve got a local monopoly. Even if Kroger currently has the best of intentions (I don’t believe that), I wouldn’t trust the next person or the one after that.

We’re already fighting a losing battle with suppliers gouging and creating higher prices or shrinking portions for the same price. I’m scared to see what grocery bills would look like under a store monopoly in addition to that.

SeaJ ,

How they have gotten around it before is to promise they will keep prices down and then show how things will be much cheaper for them so they can do it. Unsurprisingly they all fail on their promises shortly after but they have already merged by that point and have little fear of being broken up.

socphoenix ,

My town has a Kroger (city market) and an Albertsons (Safeway). Only other option is Walmart… the proposed merger would be catastrophic to our ability to afford groceries especially since Kroger is already price gouging to the point I can save $10 per 3ish days worth of food going to Walmart.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar
  • Crime happens
  • People notice the crime happening
  • Journalists report on the crime
  • Documentarians spend thousands of hours collecting data to illustrate the size and scope of the crime
  • A national outcry erupts
  • Politicians finally consider this worth their attention
  • “We’re going to look into it.”
  • Economic collapse occurs because of all the crime
  • Giant bailouts for all the criminals
  • “Now is not the time to place blame. Also, blame migrants and poor people and idk, maybe Jimmy Carter or something.”
  • Economy recovers
  • New Crime happens
DancingBear ,

Fuck jimmy carter

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

That’s the spirit.

Asafum ,

I buy almost exactly the same stuff every week except when the odd condiment/coffee runs out. I went from $60-75/week to $90-100, and now more recently $110+ all within roughly 18 months…

So now I cut back everything… I eat baked/grilled chicken with beans and canned vegetables for lunch and have salads for dinner, only eating twice a day… All that just to get back to $70/week.

A_Random_Idiot ,

Just remember, eggs were 12 bucks a dozen until the fed threatened a RICO investigation.

Hopefully the same happens to the rest of our groceries.

shalafi ,

Never saw it get $12 crazy, but at one point farmers had to kill off 100 million chickens because of bird flu. That’s nearly 1 chicken for every man, woman and child in the US.

Imagine the disposal cost, let alone the costs for sterilizing monstrous chicken warehouses. Then factor in the costs of keeping operations going while they repopulated.

However, there was something I read and can’t remember, about the prices staying jacked beyond what was to be expected.

Bearrorrist ,

The egg-laying chickens were not as affected from everything I heard.

PalmTreeIsBestTree ,

Was it just meat birds?

shalafi ,

Can’t picture how that worked, but I know nothing about poultry farming. Person below posted a link saying the same, can’t see the data I hoped to.

lolcatnip ,

The US population is 340 million.

shalafi ,

nearly 1 chicken

Jesus save us from pendants.

Ravenson ,

It’s not pedantic to object to “nearly 1 chicken per man, woman, and child” in the US when it’s much closer to “1 chicken per 4 people” than it is to the former.

hark ,
@hark@lemmy.world avatar

at one point farmers had to kill off 100 million chickens because of bird flu. That’s nearly 1 chicken for every man, woman and child in the US.

Didn’t seem to impact egg production all that much: statista.com/…/us-total-egg-production-since-2001…

BlitzoTheOisSilent ,

My dad worked for a private company that was a government contractor for almost 30 years before they were bought out by some international corporation.

I asked my dad if they used to have years where they didn’t turn a profit. “Oh absolutely, but we made up for it the next year, or they had money set aside, or…”

None of that happens anymore. Those chickens, I guarantee, caught those diseases because of the practices put in place by the 4 or 5 companies that basically produce all of the poultry for this country. They made poor business decisions, they chose to pinch pennies and not put money aside for unexpected emergencies, they continued to pay out dividends and issue stock buy backs instead of creating an emergency fund like they tell us poors we need to do.

So no, I don’t care to imagine any of their costs, because if they were a legitimate business, they would have contingency plans in place beyond “jack the prices up as high as they’ll go and keep em there until it starts to hurt our wallets enough.” They would take the hit for fucking once instead of passing the cost along to those who can least bare it so they can maintain their lifestyle built on greed and stolen wages.

Mobiuthuselah ,

Best case scenario, what can we hope for?

Forgive my cynicism, but even if they get caught for egregiousness, I can’t imagine they won’t just get a “cost of doing business” slap on the wrist. I can only hope I’m wrong.

GoofSchmoofer ,
@GoofSchmoofer@lemmy.world avatar

I agree the fines that are issued for these companies is way to low. But on the bright side the FTC is actually doing their job and if it is making C-suite executives even the slightest bit nervous I’m for it. Yep I know that is a low bar but it’s something

madcaesar ,

It’s absolutely something and a direct result of Democrats being in power.

Could you ever image a republican even asking about price fixing?? They’d probably be passing tax cuts for the offending corporations instead of fighting for the consumer.

SirNameHere ,

As a consumer, probably not much and definitely not fast.

However, in the context of the Albertson and Kroger merger, it could cast shade on that case and impact the outcome.

www.grocerydive.com/news/…/723375/

So I guess, optimistically, we can hope it slows our capitalistic death march towards monopolistic consolidation of businesses.

kameecoding ,

does this need investigation? a spike in profit should be rather obvious, if not the spike than increased income and some new mysterious expenses.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Yes it does. Because they need ironclad proof if they’re going to take legal action.

ComradePorkRoll ,

I love that we need ironclad proof to decide whether or not it’s okay for people to be able to afford sustenance or not. If there’s no proof then, oh well! The poors will just have to make do.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

That’s how legal cases work. You have to prove your side. I’m not sure how else they should work.

ComradePorkRoll ,

I’m aware that’s how they work but when the system “works” and the result is starving families then maybe it’s time we rethink whether we should keep following this system, no?

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

So how should it work? What system could not be abused by, for example, a Trump administration?

lolcatnip ,

The problem is but just one system, but a set of interlocking bad systems. For instance, there would have been no Trump administration without the Electoral College and plurality voting. I didn’t think any system can be made to work right when we allow bad people to be put in charge.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

That doesn’t really answer my question of how it should work.

skyspydude1 ,

Would you prefer the FTC just forces them to cut prices, and then give both the corporations reason to sue them, as well as more right-wing talking points about “big government stealing money from Ma and Pa grocer”? The unfortunate reality is that if the FTC don’t do this investigation and come back with hard proof, no matter how blatantly obvious what the large grocers are doing actually is, they will play the victim and make it even harder to take any hard action against them.

The other reality is that, even if it’s not actually the case, if it turned out that it was just “inflation” and all those companies did have to raise prices to stay afloat (again, not saying this is the case at all, just simply playing devil’s advocate), the FTC would face an absolute shitstorm if they took action and it did actually do serious harm to grocers/the broader food supply chain. Again, not a “Oh no, profits were only up 20% YoY instead of 35% because of the FTC action” but a “We will literally be selling all our products at a severe loss and will be bankrupt in weeks”. They have to understand exactly how much they’re fucking people over to take action, because historically there have been plenty of times where a well-intentioned “Stop fucking people over” rule, has caused much greater consequences down the line.

It sucks and is disgusting that in such a wealthy nation that we have people going hungry at all, but at least they’re attempting to finally do something about this specific issue, and hopefully will at least discourage shit like this in the future.

Cornelius_Wangenheim ,

Yes, if there’s collusion or a lack of competition, there are legal solutions, namely breaking up the offending companies.

lolcatnip ,

But will those solutions be applied? That’s always in doubt.

Cornelius_Wangenheim , (edited )

Who knows, but Khan is the best chance we’ve had of something getting done in a very long time.

skuzz ,

We’re at an inflection point where Federal government arms actually have to show the citizens they sometimes work. Something may actually happen here. Many government agencies like them, the FCC, DOE, DOT, and FTC are actually being run by people that are trying to make a difference. Did a 4000 mile road trip across the US over the holidays and was impressed to see so many bridges actually being fixed, rebuilt, or replaced. First time I’ve ever seen that level of progress. (Or at least, level of undoing technical debt.)

Not to fill you with false optimism though. I’ve not seen our federal government do anything useful my entire life, only take away rights with things like the Patriot Act and making women not be people anymore, so I have a hard time myself believing they will actually do something for the People.

Opposite corollary: They antitrusted Google over search while Google is currently being run by morons and failing at everything, meanwhile ignoring that Apple is becoming an actual monopoly in the US and segregating the population based on the color of a text bubble; owning media production, distribution, and sales; and other bad behavior.

Ensign_Crab ,

namely breaking up the offending companies.

When was the last time this happened?

Inucune ,

Bell telephone

Ensign_Crab ,

So 42 years ago.

skuzz ,

Not only inflated prices, start measuring and draining canned vegetables. They’re all slacking off with the ratio of food to filling. One can of veggies that allegedly had 425g of vegetable in it ended up only having 200g of vegetable in it after the liquid was drained.

Kit ,

Fresh or frozen vegetables are better for you, and usually cost the same as canned.

skuzz ,

That’s not the issue at hand. The theft part is.

aaaaace ,

Why not just unmerge Kroger?

NIAAS, National Incorporation As A Service, fee is the difference between highest paid employee and lowest each year. What they receive, not what some outsourcer charges for a limpeza.

Alternative is full incorporation required in each state operated in.

InternetUser2012 ,

Me too.

DontRedditMyLemmy ,

Anecdotal, but I really feel like it’s the restaurants that are jacking up prices this year.

artichokecustard ,

fast food or dine in? it’s funny because the less “corporate” the restaurant, the more likely it is that they’re getting a lot of their ingredients in the same place that you get yours

VelvetStorm ,

Both are.

Ovata ,

Better than nothing I guess.

MediaBiasFactChecker Bot ,

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shalafi ,

I’m going to lay a bit of the prices on consumers. Anecdotal, I know, but I don’t have to pay outrageous prices.

We have several grocery stores within 10 miles. The new Publix, by far the most costly option, is packed out everyday. Those same customers could go 1-mile down the road to Winn Dixie for far lower prices. Or, go a few more miles and hit Walmart for even lower prices.

Hell, if you went that far, you already passed Aldi FFS, and they’re hilariously cheap. And on the same trip, you would have passed two old, raggedy grocery stores that are as low or lower than Aldi. Just tried another place a little farther along and my beer is 22% cheaper. Everything was cheaper. We packed a grocery cart full of goods, including 3 cases of beer and plenty of meats, for $130. I can put $130 in a Publix hand basket.

Yet the cheap stores are empty in comparison to Publix and Winn Dixie. Guess people are willing to pay double for a modern, brightly lit store instead of going in the “poor people” groceries? Not my problem, let 'em pay for their snobbery.

And before anyone assumes I have 7 choices by living in a big city, my town and the town next door total 36,000, and that covers a lot of square miles out in the countryside. It’s anything but urban around here.

The people truly getting fucked are the ones for whom a Dollar General is the only reasonably close store, along with the people who can’t afford a car and have to walk to one. While I’m a big fan of them serving (if unserved) rural communities, grocery shopping there is a hella bill.

Gestrid ,

I know a lot of people at my local Publix shop there primarily for the BOGOs. In my region, you don’t actually need to get two. The product just rings up as half price at the register. (Apparently, in some regions, you actually need to get two for the BOGO to work. That’s not the case in my region, though.)

shalafi ,

You usually get BOGO for half price in my experience. The trick is that you walk in for that BOGO and buy a bunch of extra shit.

Maybe I’m privileged in that I grew up with a Depression area mom. That woman had no idea dad made real money and shopped her ass off. Only one or two stores on grocery day, but I saw her cut a bill in half with coupons. 2-3 times a week she’s get a rebate check for a buck or three (in 80s money!). And nothing was bought at full price.

I joke, but having the time to whittle the bills like that truly is a privilege.

Gestrid ,

You usually get BOGO for half price in my experience.

Not necessarily. In my area, most stores actually require that you get two. Publix is the exception.

Only one or two stores on grocery day, but I saw her cut a bill in half with coupons.

I used to work in a grocery store (not Publix). I once saw someone use so many coupons that the store owed her money. I have never seen that happen since. It blew my mind at the time that that even happened. It still kinda does.

hark ,
@hark@lemmy.world avatar

I do my grocery shopping almost exclusively at Aldi and my grocery bills still increased a cumulative 50% at a minimum since before the pandemic.

zalgotext ,

Nah dude, you’re just incredibly lucky to live in a place near so many lower priced options. I live in a very urban area, and the only nearby grocery stores are Kroger, Meijer, and Fresh Market, and the prices are all basically the same. The nearest Aldi’s is like 25-30 minutes away.

Also, I guarantee you that prices have been increasing at a similar rate even at the cheap stores.

shalafi ,

Lucky?! I think I pointed out that I’m Hicksville, USA. And yes, Aldi is 25-minutes from me as well. Can’t be assed to drive that far to save $50? Not my problem.

zalgotext ,

There literally isn’t enough time in the day. I can’t spend an hour commuting, plus another hour driving to and from Aldi’s, if I want to actually cook any of the groceries I buy there. Putting blame on consumers is asinine when grocery stores have seen more profit than ever these last couple years.

lagomorphlecture ,

You’re right. The Albersons near my house is hella expensive. Let me just drive farther to pay the same outrageous prices at the other 17 Albertson’s.

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