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Nearly two-thirds of Democrats want Biden to withdraw, new AP-NORC poll finds

Nearly two-thirds of Democrats say President Joe Biden should withdraw from the presidential race and let his party nominate a different candidate, according to a new poll, sharply undercutting his post-debate claim that “average Democrats” are still with him even if some “big names” are turning on him.

The new survey by the AP-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research, conducted as Biden works to salvage his candidacy two weeks after his debate flop, also found that only about 3 in 10 Democrats are extremely or very confident that he has the mental capability to serve effectively as president, down slightly from 40% in an AP-NORC poll in February.

The findings underscore the challenges the 81-year-old president faces as he tries to silence calls from within his own party to leave the race and tries to convince Democrats that he’s the best candidate to defeat Donald Trump. The poll was conducted mostly before Saturday’s assassination attempt on Trump at a campaign rally in Pennsylvania. It’s unclear whether the shooting influenced people’s views of Biden, but the small number of poll interviews completed after the shooting provided no early indication that his prospects improved.

Atelopus-zeteki ,
@Atelopus-zeteki@kbin.run avatar

Gee, let's see, a fascist who has guaranteed us dictatorial retribution, or Biden who has done a decent job despite an uncooperative congress and judiciary. Decisions, decisions. SMH.

Prox ,

This poll is irrelevant. Great for generating sensational articles, sure, but this question doesn’t matter. There’s only one poll question that means anything at this point:

If the 2024 US presidential election were held today, would you cast your vote for Joe Biden or Donald Trump?

ralphio ,

The fact that Trump has seriously turned down the noise against Biden since the calls for him to step down should let you know who he wants to face in the polls.

mosiacmango , (edited )

They didnt “turn down the noise” to keep him in the race. They just let the media run with the bone that helped them and had their surrogates attack.

You had speaker johnson saying biden was senile because he needed teleprompters. Meanwhile, days later Mikes teleprompter breaks at the RNC and he just trails off into nothing, stands around awkwardly and walks off. Sounds like the 50s something Johnson is pretty senile, huh?

You got Trump dozing off while sitting at the RNC, but nah, its old sleepy Joe, isnt it? The dude that had “executive time” penciled in everyday till 11am while he was in the Whitehouse and spent 1/3rd of his days as president golfing talking about someone else napping on the job.

Come the fuck on with this. Conflict drives page views, so the media leaned into an easy one that the Trump campaign helped push whole hog.

Atelopus-zeteki ,
@Atelopus-zeteki@kbin.run avatar

Trump was dozing off in the middle of his fraud trial. smh. I've never been on trial, but dang, I think I would want to pay attention.

MiltownClowns ,

Bullshit. I haven’t spoken to a single person who wants Biden to withdraw. Everybody I’ve spoken to wishes he could, but everybody acknowledges that he’s our best last hope.

Blackbeard ,
@Blackbeard@lemmy.world avatar

Where do you live?

MiltownClowns ,

Milwaukee

Blackbeard ,
@Blackbeard@lemmy.world avatar

Well that’s interesting and encouraging (I think). I’m in NC and my experience is exactly the opposite, but your vote is more important than mine.

PugJesus ,

It makes bile rise in my mouth, but Harris might be our best hope at this point.

MiltownClowns ,

Ain’t no way I’m betting money on the black woman who put away people for weed against the 80 year old white guy who’s forgiving student loan debt right now. Yes, we have to choose between a shit sandwich and a douche. But in this situation, the douche is trying to bring about fascism and the shit sandwich is A little forgetful with names, but has been undeniably killing it with progressive policies.

PugJesus ,

Man, people don’t give a fuck about past successes and accomplishments. If they did, Trump would never have gained enough swing voters to squeeze out a win in 2016. We have to accept that campaigns are a matter of narratives, and Harris is well-placed as sitting VP to claim credit/association for Biden’s successes while distancing herself from the parts of the narrative that have become disadvantagous.

ralphio ,

And if people do care Harris has a much cleaner voting record as a senator than Biden ever did.

Wrench ,

Ok. If past accomplishments are no measure, then why choose Harris? She has no personality. She’s not charismatic. She’s a dead fish candidate, and has the extra hurdle of being Black and female, which sadly is still a hurdle to overcome.

And if not Harris, then who else has the name recognition at the national scale that could rally the party and undecideds with absolutely zero prior momentum in less than 4 months?

That’s why I don’t support changing course. Stay with Biden, he is our only chance this late in the race. Had he stepped aside from the beginning, we’d have a shot at any of several options had they had enough runway to lay the foundation needed for a fresher face to compete at the national level. But that didn’t happen, so he’s our best chance.

PugJesus ,

Ok. If past accomplishments are no measure, then why choose Harris?

She’ll retain control of financial assets of the Biden campaign.

She has widespread name recognition.

Nominating her would avoid a lengthy fight over the nomination that could stoke further divisions in the party this late in the election cycle.

She has no personality. She’s not charismatic. She’s a dead fish candidate, and has the extra hurdle of being Black and female, which sadly is still a hurdle to overcome.

The other alternative is Biden, and Biden has lost too much of his party to stay in. If Biden stays in, what do you think the GOP drum will be beating every day from now til election day? “Even his own party don’t believe in him!” And that will sway swing voters.

We have two bad choices, but Harris is the less bad of the two.

Wrench ,

I just don’t see it. Harris doesn’t even seem to be popular within the party, or by progressives.

It’s very possible that she has been playing dead fish on purpose to let Biden have the spotlight, as is the role of VP. Maybe she can take the gloves off and rise to the challenge. Maybe.

But I think it’s far more likely she serves as a bland, dry candidate that gets completely steamrolled by theatric behemoth that is the Right’s propaganda entertainment machine. Who, by the way, will have ample ammo on her for being a last second replacement, AND easily reclaim the misogynistic and racist votes that they may have lost who weren’t MAGA zealots.

Atelopus-zeteki ,
@Atelopus-zeteki@kbin.run avatar

The electoral college gave the win to , perhaps you've forgotten that he lost the popular vote.

And thank you for your many wonderful historical posts!

PugJesus ,

Oh, no, I remember - it’s just that without swing voters, he wouldn’t have won the votes in the swing states necessary to lose the popular vote but win the presidency.

And thank you! I do my best to try to lend a little historical minutiae to the Fediverse!

Atelopus-zeteki ,
@Atelopus-zeteki@kbin.run avatar

I didn't really think you had forgotten.

iAmTheTot ,

Conversely, I don’t have a single left leaning friend that wants to vote for Biden.

MiltownClowns ,

What do you mean conversely? I clearly stated that everybody I’ve spoken to would wish they had somebody better to vote for. Nobody wants to vote for Biden, but they will because it’s their best option. Wanting to vote for Biden and acknowledging that Biden is the best option currently available are not two mutually exclusive things.

eran_morad ,

Bro, it’s a poll. They asked however many people. Your anecdotes don’t invalidate the poll.

MiltownClowns ,

A poll is not inherently reliable because it’s a poll. Describe to me why it’s reliable and maybe I’ll give a shit. But right now it’s just my anecdote versus theirs.

sunzu ,

DNC komissars are still working this thing

Jfc

TheBigBrother ,

Fuck creepy Joe!!

BlackLaZoR ,

More like demented Joe...

TheBigBrother ,

Joe “Dementia” Biden LMAO, at this point he being candidate should be considered elderly abuse.

LEDZeppelin ,

And this is the difference between democrats and republicans. Even after getting his ass impeached twice, inciting insurrection, getting convicted for rape and felonies - voters and his party are firmly behind Trump.

Whereas Biden must step aside because he stuttered during debate. A lot of people - including those demanding peace in Ukraine and Middle East - are in for a solid pikachu face when they help elect literal Nazi because of these fucking purity tests

apfelwoiSchoppen ,
@apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.world avatar

One is democratic and dirty, the other is authoritarian. Which alignment practice do you want? I fucking don’t want the latter.

scarabine ,

Yeah. It’s a genuinely pathetic trait for Democratic voters. Republicans think it’s hilarious and weak, and they’re correct. It is. It makes Democratic voters incredibly easy to troll and manipulate with rumor mills such as this thread.

HubertManne ,

I get ya and im not looking for biden to drop but I likely would not like the democrats as much if they did not resign way easier (franken) and question their members less critically. That being said it can be quite annoying as well.

scarabine ,

Questioning and reevaluating is good, but context matters. No choice exists in a place apart from its surrounding context. That means that sometimes you have to recognize when the context is such that perfect becomes the enemy of good.

Not being able to do that is a huge flaw, and it’s a vulnerability that the wealthy are happily helping Republicans exploit right now.

AlwaysTheir ,

I don’t think this is about purity tests so much as popularity. People don’t want to vote for him. It doesn’t matter if he’s pure or not.

givesomefucks ,

purity tests

Please explain how both parties having zero standards for their politicians will result in a net positive for the country.

Like, you know we can just run candidates who meet voters standards rather every four years demanding we throw our standards away. Right?

We’d get more votes, less Republicans in office, and more progress when Dems are in office.

What’s the downside?

Less pro-corproate moderates who disagree with the party platform?

PugJesus ,

He needs to step down. He did much better work as president than many of his critics give him credit for, and his initial decision to run again, while in hindsight fucking ruinous, was operating off of conventional political wisdom. What he needs to do now is recognize that he’s lost the confidence of the party and the electorate, and step down, regardless of what he thinks about the sharpness of his faculties.

homesweethomeMrL ,

Yay polls.

I love polls. They’re so great. Always accurate.

PugJesus ,

They’re likely accurate. Anecdotal, but many of my very liberal friends have lost confidence in Biden’s ability to lead the Dems to victory, and many people I know who are ‘swing voters’ are convinced that Biden is senile. That’s not getting into the conservatives I know, who I would not regard as having relevant opinions. Furthermore, a number of sitting congressmembers of his own party have expressed that he should step down - which alone is a ruinous and public expression of a loss of confidence at the highest levels for Biden to win the campaign. It’s a millstone around his campaign’s neck, and even winning them back won’t remove it - the only thing that he can do to remove that weight from the Dem ticket is by stepping down himself.

Blackbeard ,
@Blackbeard@lemmy.world avatar

Since the debate I haven’t spoken to a single left-leaning person who wants Biden to stay in or thinks he can win. Not one.

PugJesus ,

I was both until Congresscritters started coming out against him after the debate. I’m willing to accept that seeing him have a bad day - even a really fucking bad one - is not necessarily an indictment of his fitness to run a vigorous campaign, but I knew it was over once sitting Congressmembers were asking him publicly to step down. That’s… that’s lethal. Regardless of whether or not he’s fit to run a campaign.

I think it’s not impossible for him to win (though I was in full panic mode when Trump had an assassination attempt and I thought it might be a Dem behind the gun), but IF he does win, it will be wholly in spite of him being the candidate, and it will be an uphill fucking battle the whole way. He no longer advantages the Dem ticket - he’s a handicap.

Blackbeard ,
@Blackbeard@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah I’ve also started trying to figure out, in the grand scheme of things, if there’s a scenario where replacing an incumbent would be more beneficial. Like, how bad would the polls have to get before the party stepped in and made an unfortunate but necessary decision? Losing all swing states? Losing Dem lean states? Losing solid blue states? Losing by double digits? Or maybe the candidate would have to get worse? What if he has a stroke in October? What if he dies in October? Is that how bad it would have to get?

The only silver lining I’m seeing right now is the 538 model calling for a Biden win (sorta), and it’s predicated on economic fundamentals which I just don’t think hold the line like they used to. I think the game has fundamentally changed, as has political typology, and that’s the reason he’s drowning in swing states.

Nurse_Robot ,

I genuinely think a change this close to the election would be a terrible mistake. We need Joe now because he refused to step down for too long and the DNC refused to nominate someone else anyway. We’re committed

iAmTheTot ,

This close? The democratic convention hasn’t even happened yet. There’s still months to the election proper. Both France and the UK just held elections wherein the entire cycle lasted less than the time we have until election day still. And they had higher voter turnout than the US typically has.

Time is not the problem here. We do not need Biden. There are better candidates.

memfree ,
@memfree@lemmy.ml avatar

In my dream world, Biden is currently refusing to step down because he wants the RNC to focus on him, but he will hand the torch to Kamala in the next week or so before it is too late to change any ballots (Ohio and such).

apfelwoiSchoppen ,
@apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.world avatar

Democracy in action inaction.

Omega_Man ,

Biden’s response:

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/077717e6-a91a-47f8-adfc-3f209f7b6f86.webp

li10 ,

How far away is the actual election?

Replacing him would be best, but you’ve got to start building a case for someone new in that time.

apfelwoiSchoppen ,
@apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.world avatar

Building the case in a world where political marketing machines create the narrative in half a day’s time and spread it through all the corporate channels.

Blackbeard ,
@Blackbeard@lemmy.world avatar

Not only that, they don’t even have to target 3/4 of the country. They just need to hammer Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania.

Hellinabucket ,

Honestly it won’t matter who has the (D) next to their name, the or comes already decided, we just won’t know till November what it is.

morphballganon ,

We vote in November

li10 ,

oof ur probably fucked mate

nondescripthandle ,

Can’t wait to hear why this poll doesn’t matter but the one that said everyone else does the same or worse does matter. Don’t let me down lemmy centrists.

Landmammals ,

No they don’t.

They wanted Joe to not run again in the first place, and for the DNC to nominate someone else.

Don’t get me wrong, biden’s administration has done amazing work. We are just so focused on the stupid horse race that we’re not actually picking a leader.

The main difference between Joe Biden and Donald Trump is then Biden isn’t a raging narcissist. He has surrounded himself with competent people who are quietly doing a great job of running the government.

givesomefucks ,

They wanted Joe to not run again in the first place, and for the DNC to nominate someone else

Nope.

We wanted fair and open primaries were progressive leaning states didn’t have their delegates stolen and every state gets a chance to vote before it’s over rather than 4-5 states handpicked by the DNC because they vote moderate.

That increases turnout in the general.

What happened was undemocratic and depresses turnout helping Republicans

The main difference between Joe Biden and Donald Trump is then Biden isn’t a raging narcissist

If Biden wasn’t a narcissist he’d put the safety of the country over his own ambition to stay in the White House after it took 36 years to get the big chair.

takeda ,

Biden implemented many progressive ideas, this is why “left” media (owned by billionaires) are actually attacking him.

Even Bernie is for not replacing him.

The whole campaign to replace him feels very astroturfed and is based on the first debate ignoring everything else.

givesomefucks ,

Biden implemented many progressive ideas

Many?

How about top 3 that Biden did?

Not just legislation that he signed, three things that we got because Biden has the big desk and not literally anyone else with a D by their name.

takeda ,

How about more politico.com/…/joe-biden-30-policy-things-you-mig…

givesomefucks ,

Nope, because most of that is legislation Biden has taken credit for.

How about top 3 that Biden did?

Not just legislation that he signed, three things that we got because Biden has the big desk and not literally anyone else with a D by their name.

If you can find 3 things on that list let me know

If not, you just proved my point, that everything on that list would have happened if it was another Dem in office.

takeda ,

Yeah, I didn’t point it out earlier, but you were already changing goalposts in the prior response.

President is not just signing bills, but also leading Democrats negotiated with Republicans to get bills passed. How do you think the bill to help Ukraine passed in April? Johnson just had a change of heart out of nowhere

This is why trump accomplished very little legislatively, he basically doesn’t know about making compromises.

givesomefucks ,

President is not just signing bills, but also leading Democrats negotiated with Republicans to get bills passed

Expect Biden said publicly and repeatedly that even changing a Dems mind would be impossible so trying would be a waste of effort…

Do you disagree with Biden on that?

If so, why do you still want him as president when he thinks your reason for why it should be him is not his job?

memfree ,
@memfree@lemmy.ml avatar

CTRL+F “executive order”

  • (farming) …executive order directing agencies across the government to promote competition and take on monopolies.
  • (pot) … executive order directing the Department of Health and Human Services to conduct a review of all available cannabis science
  • (AI) … executive order starts the clock for more than a dozen federal agencies to figure out what the gold standard for “safe, secure and trustworthy” AI handling should be for their own operations

And that’s just the little stuff you didn’t notice – not the big stuff like the SAVE Plan for student debt (also an executive order) or caregiver support.

I guess that is besides the point, which seems to be redefining everything Biden has done as ineligible. I’m guessing you’d say Regan gets no credit for ending the Berlin Wall since HE didn’t tear it down.

givesomefucks ,

So…

Your three examples of Biden accomplishing something…

Is three times he told federal agencies to “look into” things?

No examples of him actually doing anything?

That’s the best you can find?

Quick edit:

Can we skip ahead to where you say no president has power to do anything?

Then I point out how that undermines Biden’s entire campaign and means the only thing that’s important is picking a popular and charismatic candidate and Biden is both historically unpopular and while charismatic for an 81 year old that’s not a very high standard?

memfree ,
@memfree@lemmy.ml avatar

Sigh.

Those weren’t MY points. It was just proof you do not choose to read. You said:

Not just legislation that he signed, three things that we got because Biden has the big desk and not literally anyone else with a D by their name.

The reply was the politico piece, and you claimed nothing on it counted. I checked. You were wrong. I posted 3 you missed and added two more (with links) which you ALSO ignored.

I didn’t bother with obvious stuff like defending Ukraine, strengthening alliances that had faltered, or surging the economy (especially since I think most economic stuff is a lagging indicator if under any Presidential control at all). If you weren’t going to read the politico article, why waste my time? I only waste my time now so the trolling becomes obvious to all.

givesomefucks ,

Not just legislation that he signed, three things that we got because Biden has the big desk and not literally anyone else with a D by their name.

Right …

And you told me three times Biden told a federal agency to “look into” something.

Hell, one of those was even a campaign promise from last primary four years ago. Nothing was accomplished.

I didn’t bother with obvious stuff

That stuff any Dem would have done.

Bruh, you quoted the question, did you not read it? How are you trying to answer it already?

Not just legislation that he signed, three things that we got because Biden has the big desk and not literally anyone else with a D by their name.

TrippyFocus ,

Lmao this is what you came up with? Most of these aren’t “progressive” especially when 4-5 are pushing more military or escalating trade wars. Plus are you really trying to say this is a major win

Biden scraps Trump’s paint scheme for Air Force One

Plus producing more oil than ever is on there as well. Like that’s not a win that’s completely counter to helping climate change.

toast ,

We are just so focused on the stupid horse race that we’re not actually picking a leader.

This ‘stupid horse race’ is all that stands between us and four more years of Trump

iAmTheTot ,

Speak for yourself. I’d like Biden to step aside.

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