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Migrants, real and imagined, grip US voters, 1,500 miles north of border

Few residents of this Wisconsin small city have seen a migrant but some are blaming Biden for an ‘invasion’ regardless and elsewhere in the state an influx of foreigners is not all it seems

Rhinelander is closer to the Arctic Circle than to Mexico, so it is no great surprise that few people in the small Wisconsin city have laid eyes on the foreign migrants Donald Trump claims are “invading” the country from across the US border 1,500 miles to the south.

But Jim Schuh, the manager of a local bakery, is nonetheless sure they are a major problem and he’s voting accordingly.

“We don’t see immigrants here but I have relatives all over the country and they see them,” he said. “That’s Biden. He’s responsible.”

Large numbers of voters in key swing states agree with Schuh, even in places where migrants are hard to find as they eye cities such as Chicago and New York struggling to cope with tens of thousands of refugees and other arrivals transported there by the governors of Texas and Florida.

Trump has been pushing fears over https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/feb/07/mexico-border-explained-chart-immigration hard in Wisconsin where the past two presidential elections have been decided by a margin of less than 1% of the vote. A Marquette law school poll last month found that two-thirds of Wisconsin voters agree that “the Biden administration’s border policies have created a crisis of uncontrolled illegal migration into the country”.

rapechildren ,

www.vidlii.com/watch?v=-HkErc-xfRK

Valmond ,

Someone should make an interactive worldmap where you could see who was the bad ones at specific times.

You know, the bad people like jews, black people, italians (France 1970 IIRC, just an example), foreigners, polish plumbers (not kidding), the lazy mexicans stealing jobs etc. etc. etc.

I’m not at all enough versed in this kind of history, but I’d love to see one. Maybe because I was the bread stealing person for some years :-) but being a bit serious, maybe some scared people might understand it’s just that, scare techniques, and that they have been used in centuries to abuse people (both the scared ones and the one attacked ofc).

Got_Bent ,

Wisconsin has a big Hmong population, all of whom came to the US legally. Holy hell the things I’ve heard people say about them. As if they’re not even human. This sentiment doesn’t surprise me at all.

bamfic ,

This is so fucking stupid. Unless you live in central Africa, all humans are migrants.

mightyfoolish ,

Make New York and Chicago more Mexican and Cuban and then have people who vote on key migrant issues in New York, Chicago, Florida, and Texas.

Who new the governors of Texas and Florida were just setting up the next generation of Hispanic-Americans for success?

This is up there with sending millions of pro-Palestinian Americans to Gaza. How could this backfire?

prole ,

Make New York and Chicago more Mexican and Cuban

Lol you’ve never been to New York City (or any large city), have you?

You do know that they’re chock full of people from Mexico and Cuba and literally everywhere else on the planet, right?

Maybe if you weren’t so terrified to enter a major city, you’d realize that you’re afraid of ghosts and boogeymen created by right wing propaganda to make sure you never actually go to any of these places to see for yourself what a beautiful tapestry of culture they create.

I honestly feel sorry for you.

mightyfoolish ,

I am making fun of the Republicans because their plan is to accidently expand the Spanish speaking parts of the US. Their plans are counterproductive to THEIR OWN goals.

eran_morad ,

How do these fucktards not understand that we need immigrants?

PopcornTin ,

How many? All, or should you be selective? People with contagious diseases? People with criminal histories? Etc, etc. The issue is controlled immigration with safeguards against those, or open borders with no control?

Scubus ,

Very few people are advocating open borders, and I haven’t seen any politicians doing so. Why are you trying to get clarification on an issue that doesn’t exist?

We need migrants

That is the sentence you had an issue with. Admit it.

whereisk ,

– We need clean air.

– How much?? All of it? Don’t you know oxygen is flammable and corrosive? Look what it does to steel.

– Welp

cryostars , (edited )

More succinct questions would be: How many illegal border crossings with the intent to stay in the US permanently is an issue? 100k/month? 50k? 10k? None?

politifact.com/…/fact-checking-current-scale-us-m…

PopcornTin ,

Asking any questions, discussing any part of an issue is bad. Do as you’re told, or else we’ll call you bad names.

cryostars ,

Yeah the echo chamber / groupthink here is kinda not great. Hopefully it gets better as the platform grows

Agrivar ,

Racists gonna racist, I suppose… but did you need to shout it from the rooftops?

Cryophilia ,

Oh man, is it time for our once-every-four-years scary caravan of literally billions of migrant rapists preparing to invade the border? The caravan which will mysteriously vanish in December?

Potatos_are_not_friends ,

Fox News and right wingers really helped push fake threats.

My friend is a Rogan fan and he’s so terrified of certain cities, believing they’re overrun with migrants, as if he currently doesnt live in the top 10 dangerous cities in America.

It’s fucking bananas.

disguy_ovahea , (edited )

Migrants are not “illegal immigrants.” They are documented asylum seekers, allowed temporary refuge. They have been bused to Democratic sanctuary cities for the last few years to prevent overcrowding border cities.

migrationpolicy.org/…/frequently-requested-statis…

Unauthorized immigrants are the “illegal immigrants” they’re so worried about. Almost all of the cities with the largest unauthorized immigrant populations are the same sanctuary cities.

pewresearch.org/…/us-metro-areas-unauthorized-imm…

Both of these groups are different from registered immigrants, entering the US with intent to become citizens, who must follow an incredibly challenging legal path for naturalization.

You red states are missing out on interesting culture, awesome food, and hard workers.

Amoxtli , (edited )

They are not asylum seekers. They are welfare and jobseekers. When COVID hit, their job markets declined. Anywhere from fishermen, to carpenters, to welfare seekers. I have seen a migrant near a street begging for help. He does not know any English or Spanish. Do you expect we learn his language so he can feel welcomed? He does not belong here. If you are coming from a country and doing business with cartels to get to the border, and your country is not under any war, what does that say of the quality of people coming to the border? Not very good. Mass migration that consists of less paid economic classes will form ghettos and limit their ability to assimilate into the culture of the host country. This is what you see in Europe. This is what you see in Canada.

disguy_ovahea , (edited )

Migrants and unauthorized immigrants are ineligible for most state funded social services like welfare. To be eligible, they need to register as immigrants with a plan for naturalization.

www.nilc.org/…/overview-immeligfedprograms/

Unauthorized immigrants and migrants are also ineligible for legal employment in the US. The jobs they may get would be “off the books,” which is a crime committed by the employer, not the immigrant.

If you want to discuss language designating an immigrant “belonging,” I have some bad news for you. The US does not have a national language.

www.usa.gov/official-language-of-us

Out of curiosity, how many Native American languages did your ancestors learn when they arrived?

Amoxtli ,

So immigrants are just left out in the street and have no taxpayer hotels, food, and water, cell phones? That is misinformation there. It is all over the news about migrant hotels and migrant schools. And if they do qualify as a refugee, some of them will undoubtedly well get welfare. I never said the US has a national language, but a country is not a country if it is fractured by languages. Look at Europe, look at Ethiopia, look at Somalia, look at the violence between Francophone and Anglophone factions in African countries. How many intellectual resources will you find in Spanish available online? There are whole databases of intellectual and academic information available in English. If you are assuming I am a white supremacist, let me clear up things that show how much of a straw man you are: I am not white, I am dark, and I don’t look white. Another thing, why do you insinuate my race? What’s next, you are going to assume my gender too? I never said English is the official language of the US. Even the state of Texas has no official language. You think you know more than me? You are straw man…

disguy_ovahea , (edited )

Unauthorized immigrants are just left out in the street, yes. Registered migrants are provided with one year emergency shelter for asylum. During that time they are to decide if they are choosing the path of naturalization by becoming a registered immigrant, or moving to another nation. The emergency shelter expires after the year regardless of their choice.

I’m not going to address your claims about “intellectual resources” being exclusive to English other than calling them incorrect and racist.

I did not assume your race or language, I just assumed it wasn’t Native American. It was a statistical likelihood.

Lastly, an example of a “straw man argument” is if I said blue is the best color, and you said you like red better, so that means I must hate the color red. My responses have not misrepresented your assertions. They’ve simply disproven them.

Amoxtli ,

California becomes first state to offer health insurance to all undocumented immigrants - ABC News - abcnews.go.com/Health/…/story?id=105986377New immigrant families in Denver must exit shelters as the city scales back aid. Many have nowhere to go - denverite.com/…/denver-new-immigrants-families-ch…Democrats Visited the Roosevelt Hotel Sheltering Migrants. It Got Ugly. - The New York Times - nytimes.com/…/migrant-shelter-roosevelt-hotel-aoc…Disaster Relief for Immigrants | Texas Law Help - texaslawhelp.org/…/disaster-relief-for-immigrants

disguy_ovahea , (edited )

That’s great news about California! The state is 87% Democratic, so it’s not really a surprise.

The other articles are due to the overflow that occurred when Biden repealed Title 42, and Congress failed to pass border security for a year, or immigration reform that hasn’t been updated since 2013.

They need to do their jobs so the President isn’t forced to control the border with Executive Orders. They’re designed to be temporary measures for addressing a crisis, not the primary form of managing border security and immigration policy.

Amoxtli ,

California can do their own thing

Amoxtli ,

I said most intellectual capital is within the English language. There you go, creating another straw man.

disguy_ovahea ,

How many intellectual resources will you find in Spanish available online? There are whole databases of intellectual and academic information available in English.

You’re misrepresenting yourself.

Amoxtli , (edited )

Not at all. It is a fact that academia is dominated by Anglophone sphere.

Scientific publishing has a language problem | Nature Human Behaviour - www.nature.com/articles/s41562-023-01679-6

Science is international, but scientific publishing is dominated by English-language publications. This disproportionately benefits native or fluent English speakers. We want to take steps to address the imbalance this creates, and new technology may help.

It is obvious you are an overly religious person with communist leanings. Communism doesn’t work. It is merely an ideal, a dream of another world. Here are more facts regarding business languages:

The 10 best languages to learn for business -Preply Business - preply.com/en/blog/b2b-languages-for-business/

Going global: Top 10 languages for international business growth - www.acolad.com/en/…/most-demand-languages.html

Natanael ,

It is obvious you are an overly religious person with communist leanings

Communism is anti religion, but I wouldn’t expect you to know

Amoxtli ,

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_communism

prole ,

Why not just say your racist and be done with it… It’s so strange that people like you are so willing to put so much time into spewing and defending gross racist bullshit, and then act like you’re not a piece of shit racist.

At least be honest. Based on your fervency, you should be proud of it, no? Why are you embarrassed to admit you’re a racist?

Amoxtli ,

You have any evidence?

Natanael ,

You’re singlehandedly pulling the average down

Also FYI there’s more English speakers in China than in USA. Have fun with that one!

kiku123 ,

This is a great example of the Gish Gallop in action.

prole ,

Illegal immigrants alone pay over $12 billion in taxes every year despite receiving basically nothing from the state in return.

Agrivar ,

Racists don’t have to be white men, it’s just easier.

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

This is what you see in Canada.

When was the last time you were in Canada?

Amoxtli ,

It is called reading. How do you know the Armenian Genocide happened or not if you weren’t in Turkey, or Armenia? How about the Holocaust? Were you there? Are you implying you don’t think the Holocaust happened because you weren’t there? Smug comments like these crack me up.

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

That makes sense, if you ever went to Canada you’d realize your comment is nonsense.

bradorsomething ,

Reading Amoxtli’s profile, I’m going to guess they’re about 23, and haven’t travelled outside the US.

supersquirrel ,

Do you expect we learn his language so he can feel welcomed?

Yes, I do, because I believe the US is meant to be a dynamic shifting idea and that means we should commit to extending a curious hand of welcome to every new group of people that finds their way here.

Yes we should learn that new persons language, why not? It is good for your brain, studies have shown learning languages is extremely stimulating and healthy for your mind so I don’t see the issue here?

The incredible diversity of bomb ass food, art, ideas and general life that a diverse community of migrants brings to a city is invaluable to the citizens that live there who are local. Learning how to say a handful of words in another language is a tiny optional price to pay for all of those benefits.

Amoxtli ,

Life isn’t about learning languages. You only need one good language to be productive. The languages with the most intellectual capital are Western European languages like English, German. East Asian languages like Mandarin are growing intellectual capital. Let me provide more misinformation with links. Misinformation? You be the judge.

Adams cancels upcoming budget cuts amid migrant savings - POLITICO - politico.com/…/adams-budget-cuts-migrants-0014250…

National Youth Gang Survey Analysis: Demographics | National Gang Center - nationalgangcenter.ojp.gov/…/demographics

Quote from National Gang Center, which is a US federal government website:

Race/Ethnicity of Gang Members

Respondents provided information regarding the race/ethnicity of gang members in their jurisdictions.


<span style="color:#323232;">>Law enforcement agencies report a greater percentage of Hispanic/Latino and African-American/black gang members compared with other race/ethnicities.
</span><span style="color:#323232;">>The most recent figures provided by law enforcement are 46 percent Hispanic/Latino gang members, 35 percent African-American/black gang members, more than 11 percent white gang members, and 7 percent other race/ethnicity of gang members.
</span>

I am not going to say migrants commit the most crimes, but that is a very narrow-minded view of the impact of immigration. It says nothing of the subsequent generations that come later on. I have been to American school. Absolutely terrible, a lot of kids are in gangs. I turn on the news about 14 year olds shooting each other. I can tell you as a grown man who reads a lot that a gang member is from a totally different culture from an uppity middle class or rich person. They provide a safe environment for kids, some of them teach theirs kids to be polite, and treat everyone with respect. Parents make sure their child devotes time to reading. In contrast to other neighborhoods, I have never seen anything like this while I was growing up. There are such things as different people. Believing everybody to be the same is quasi-religious stuff. I don’t associate with that culture and actively avoid it. As a matured person, it is just insanity. I can tell you other things about the way they think. But the politically correct theory is that white dominance is responsible for crime and poverty of the minority, in spite of evidence that Asians are very tiny and are an outlier to such a claim.

eran_morad ,

You just straight up ignorant and antiintellectual. You’re the rot that is destroying America.

Amoxtli ,

You got evidence?

Agrivar ,

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    vulpix , (edited )

    Western European languages like English, German

    … and Spanish? Do you forget that Spain exists, is in Western Europe, and is where Spanish spread from, or? Spain alone produces around as many scientific publications as France, Italy, Japan, Australia, Canada, Russia, etc. depending on the year – impressive considering it’s both less populated and poorer than those countries – and including Latin American countries like Chile, Mexico, and Colombia makes Spanish surpass all languages other than Chinese and English in amount of scientific literature. I’m also not sure where you got the idea that the German language contributes more to human knowledge than Chinese, China produces far more scientific output than the US and around 4-5x as much as Germany.

    Something tells me you don’t speak any 2nd language, you’ve never left the country, nor are you involved in academia or qualified scientific research at all, and you’re trying to speak about things you don’t know about. You’re some sort of pseudo-intellectual who has no qualifications or talents, but thinks you’re on the same level as actual philosophers by copy-pasting links of news articles about problems you don’t actually know anything about to Reddit and Lemmy.

    I work in a computational natural science and much of the general humanities, philosophy, linguistics, and psycholinguistics literature I’ve read from the modern era is in Spanish, and plenty of Spanish papers are incredibly rich & high quality despite them. It’s impossible to ignore non-English languages’ significant contributions to scientific knowledge, and especially the Spanish-speaking world’s impact on modern science.

    Regardless of that, the amount of papers about iguana mating written in a language isn’t relevant at all to migrants. If anything, a population speaking different languages is a good thing for science, because that kind of separation encourages thinking about and discussing problems in a different way, and adopting different focuses or techniques. Throughout history, many divides in science coincided with language divides, with the most prominent scientific breakthroughs often coming from people in different “camps” which coincided with the language they spoke, e.g. the Arabic-speaking world would have their own views on a specific problem or field which eventually turned out to be the dominant view, and the Italian-speaking world, and the Greek-speaking world, and the Latin-speaking world, and the German-speaking world, and the Judeo-Spanish-speaking world, and the Akkadian-speaking world, Hebrew & Aramaic speaking world, and the Chinese-speaking world, and the French-speaking world… many languages encourages many forms of thinking, and encourages innovation.

    The dominant languages in the US/UK/Canada, China, Germany, and France have the most scientific literature available because those countries’ governments are able to spend an extremely large amount of money to subsidize and drive scientific research, and have large relatively well-off and well-educated populations to become scientists. With the US seeing an increasing number of Spanish-speakers in their population, it’s likely it’ll eventually see a large rise in Spanish-language scientific literature produced in the country at some point.

    Amoxtli ,

    You got any evidence or just spreading misinformation again?

    vulpix , (edited )

    … evidence that Spain is in Western Europe? Or that throughout history, diversity in scientific ideas and the progress brought by said diversity have come in large part from language divides? You know, like, the entirety of medical history and modern-day biodiversity sciences? Or evidence that China surpasses the US and Germany in scientific production? Or how Spanish-language publications are extremely prevalent in many subjects, like linguistics, philosophy, social sciences, and humanities like archeology where they tend to surpass othern non Chinese/English speaking countries, and where Spain tends to have more importance than every country other than China, the US, and occasionally the UK?

    It’s easy to tell from the actual data that there’s plenty of science in non-English languages, including Spanish, and many primarily Spanish-speaking countries have their own niches that they occupy (with Spain being one of the most influential forces in a lot of social sciences, humanities, and related subjects, and Argentina, Mexico, and Chile each especially pulling more than their weight in specific subjects).

    Where exactly are you confused?

    Amoxtli ,

    I know Spain is in Western Europe. When did I say it wasn’t in Western Europe? When did I say China doesn’t have any intellectual capital? I never said that. Straw man arguments and zero evidence.

    vulpix , (edited )

    You must be blind or something because I linked real data that goes directly against what you said about Spanish scientific output. In fact, you were raving about all the “philosophy” Spanish doesn’t have, despite Spain with its Spanish language literature often being one of the most important and highest-producing countries in terms of publications in philosophy and other humanities. Convenient for you to ignore it I guess.

    You also said this:

    The languages with the most intellectual capital are Western European languages like English, German. East Asian languages like Mandarin are growing intellectual capital.

    Very clearly you thought that Mandarin has less intellectual capital than English and German, and that Mandarin was just “growing” but not actually ahead. Which is just not true, definitely not for German.

    I can tell you have no idea about how rich scientific literature in other languages is, because you aren’t involved in scientific literature and you don’t speak other languages.

    Amoxtli ,

    Ideas require reason. The most philosophical cultures create ideas.

    Natanael ,

    Where did you get your number system from?

    Amoxtli ,

    Just out of curiosity, how many languages do you know? Are you a polyglot or are you preaching?

    Scubus ,

    what does this tell you about the quality of people coming to the border? Not very good.

    By this metric Republicans don’t belong here. Are we going to deport everyone with < 120 iq who isn’t wealthy, neurotypical, and highly motivated?

    prole ,

    I’m so fucking tired of seeing this “quality of people” bullshit too. As if they’re not all humans who deserve a decent life.

    Plus we all know that the “quality” these people refer to is directly related to the amount of melanin in the person’s skin.

    I’ve never seen this “quality of people” argument about Scandinavian immigrants. Weird.

    Amoxtli ,

    You have any evidence for “humanity”?

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