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taanegl ,

aaaaaaand stripmines.

tb_ ,
@tb_@lemmy.world avatar

Very clean, much future.

EVs are cool and all, but considering their weight and cost… That’s why we need better public transport and bikes!

As well as better zoning laws to reduce travel time in certain parts of the world.

EVs are a bandaid.

taanegl ,

Like with most battery based technology, it could be ethically sourced, but then you’ll have to pay $300 more per smartphone and arguably $20,000 more for an EV.

The problem is that companies, corporation and multi-nationals freely exploit authoritarian countries, a market precedent set in the 1950s, when western capitalists decided to rely on communist China for fabrication and manufacturing, because wage slavery.

You don’t need to rely on wage slavery like in the Congo, but you can still defile the lands and cause environmental damage - like they do in Chile.

Going back on this is incredibly hard, because if the consumer suddenly pays more, chances are that the extra money won’t be used to improve operations or to treat employees ethically, but to give bigger payouts to investors and bigger bonuses for executives.

So, wat do?

mydude ,

Does this mean they don’t need to “bring democracy” to other countries anymore? That would be nice.

frezik ,

No, silly, it means we need a new excuse.

GiddyGap ,

Lithium will maybe be used for a while longer and in batteries, but it’s increasingly unlikely that it will be the battery tech of the future.

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

is there a good, viable alternative in the horizon?

utopianfiat ,

MgIon

anl.gov/…/qa-could-magnesium-be-a-battery-future-…

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

are there commercial applications? i have no reason not to be skeptical given how common it is to hype up new battery tech only for it to be nothing.

ech ,

Fwiw, the entire thing is a q&a with a scientist that is only speaking on the potential of magnesium-ion batteries. Even they state it’s too early to say one way or the other.

arymandias ,

Yes pantographs.

GiddyGap ,

Maybe solid state. They still contain lithium, but it could possibly be replaced with other components like magnesium. But it’s still a ways out:

cnn.com/…/solid-state-battery-tech-promises-to-ra…

frezik ,

A couple at various points in development. Sodium is going to be in production soon, but it’s mostly going to be cheaper <150-mile range EVs. Zinc-air should have higher capacity per kg than lithium, but it’ll be a while before we see it in cars. Flow batteries were thought to not have the capacity per kg to complete with lithium, but there’s been some advances that suggest it could be competitive.

With batteries, you shouldn’t focus too much on any one advancement. They advance by doing ten things and one of them works out.

sylver_dragon ,

As much as I like the idea of the US not being dependent on China for Lithium, given the environmental and worker regulations in the US (which are both a good thing) I suspect we’ll continue to see any attempts at mining or manufacturing undercut by cheap labor in developing economies with horrendous environmental impact. Unless and until imports get taxed based on those issues, US based mining isn’t going to be competitive.

AA5B ,

Salton Sea is already an ecological disaster - just green light that one with no environmental restrictions

assembly ,

Yeah the Salton Sea is already a dead zone from previous catastrophes so I can’t imagine there is any more damage that could be done. If we had to tear up any part of the country for mining, I don’t think there exists a better option than there. Last I read about ten years ago it’s still so toxic that you can’t really go there and don’t try and touch the water.

sylver_dragon ,

I worked with a group doing surveys of the Salton Sea a lot of years ago (I work in IT). One of the researchers dropped a ruggedized laptop in the water, it didn’t survive, despite being rated to survive a short dunk. That said, I believe the Salton Sea is considered a critical for migratory birds passing through the area. So, it’s further destruction may run into environmental issues.

Tangent5280 ,

I wonder what these birds actually need a dead sea for.

umbrella ,
@umbrella@lemmy.ml avatar

the ones setting this kind of extraction up are the likes of the US on the first place. its much cheaper to exploit a third world country than to do it domestically with all the worker protections and pay.

Varyk ,

Holy crap, this is huge.

I recently read an article claiming that China had secured their lithium future because they found a mine with scattered deposits that maybe add up to one million tons of lithium.

But the states just discovered at least 23 million tons in Arizona and California?

So goodbye extra national lithium dependence?

Anybody in the industry have any cents they care to throw in?

Nudding ,

We will destroy the environment trying to produce enough lithium to give every person in North America a car, when we should have been switching over to free public transport.

Varyk , (edited )

I agree we should have built better transportation infrastructure, but we will not destroy the environment by producing lithium batteries, especially with only two sites that collectively contain at least 200 times the current global use of lithium.

Nudding ,

Personally I think it’s too late anyway, so why destroy another habitat?

htrayl ,

Environmental nihilism only serves to make the world a worse place.

Nudding ,

Humanity objectively makes the planet a worse place. Since our first steps, we’ve driven 70% of all species to extinction. Every day we drive 150 more.

If any other organism was this destructive in any environment we would work to eradicate it.

Human exceptionalism is disgusting.

Varyk ,
  1. If it’s too late anyway…
  2. Have you been to Arizona?
  3. 300 years of developed sustainable technology go a long way
Nudding ,

Guess we’ll see!

Varyk ,

See you in 3

frezik ,

The Salton Sea is already an environmental disaster. This just makes the best use of it.

Art3sian ,
@Art3sian@lemmy.world avatar

Not necessarily. It depends how it’s mined. Lilac is partnered up with Lake Resources and have a proven, patented, and tested tech of ion-exchange instead of hard rock mining.

= no digging and recycled water use (no evaporation).

kaffiene ,

It’s not an either/or situation

SuiXi3D ,
@SuiXi3D@kbin.social avatar

Ah yes, because mining anything is notoriously clean.

Rapidcreek OP ,

Depends where it’s mined. In this case it’s in the ocean

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

The Salton Sea isn’t an ocean. It’s a salt lake accidentally created from farm runoff which has mostly dried up. The farm runoff is full of fertilizers and pesticides. It’s an ecological disaster zone.

Ghostalmedia ,
@Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world avatar

This is why I milk my lithium.

gregorum ,

like my almonds

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