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AgentGrimstone ,

They don’t have pronouns in my mom’s native language so when she talks to me in English, she always mixes up he and she and it can get really confusing.

jacktherippah ,

Boy English is pretty tame. My native language has gendered pronouns for what feels like every type of relative you can have. I don’t see my extended family very often so truthfully I don’t even know half of those pronouns. Sometimes a relative pops up out of nowhere and I get all confused about pronouns again. Seriously, like last year at a family gathering my aunt (maybe? idk, she’s my grandmother’s niece) brought someone and was like “heyyyy yall are related come say hiii” and she was like brand new information to everyone there lol.

Roundcat ,
@Roundcat@lemmy.ca avatar

Meanwhile in Japanese, you get to gender YOURSELF!

Getallen ,

Gender is a myth invented by toilet companies to sell more toilets.

Thetimefarm ,

It’s a little known fact that men were created in 1925 by a marketing company tasked with selling urinals.

SuddenDownpour ,

Are there any myths created by the bidet industry?

Lucidlethargy ,

It’s a manufactured problem by snowflake, conservative douchebags.

We just use the word “they” if we aren’t sure. The types upset by this are dumbasses.

TheDoctorDonna , (edited )

I tried telling this to a someone and they claimed it made sense. Then I ended up using a sentence with they/them replacing genders, inserting the subject’s name where it made sense for clarity. " That is the most confusing text I have ever received."

🤦‍♀️

I’ve determined this is how she looks like an accepting and inclusive person while actually prefering ignorance.

790 ,

The argument seems to be that, in a language with ungendered pronouns, all genders are included, so you don’t need neopronouns for the purpose of inclusion. Nevertheless, you could still replace an ungendered pronoun with a neopronoun to be more accurate, or for other purposes.

nudnyekscentryk ,
@nudnyekscentryk@szmer.info avatar

Me whose native language conjugates verbs and adjectives according to subject’s gender:

wasz język nie wymaga sprecyzowania płci podmiotu w każdym zdaniu?

nudnyekscentryk , (edited )
@nudnyekscentryk@szmer.info avatar

Also Chinese kind of has gendered pronouns: 你 and 妳, both mean ‘you’ and are pronounced the same but the latter is used in writing to address females specifically. Though this is Taiwanese Mandarin-specific.

edit: 他她 as well obviously

Dempf ,

Yeah Chinese isn’t a perfect example with the existence of 你妳 and 他她, etc. Though to be fair I’ve noticed native Chinese speakers get pretty confused by English pronouns and tend to mix them up since it’s mostly optional in Cheese.

SnipingNinja ,

Optional in cheese sounds like a lactose intolerant thing (my autocorrect tried putting in optimal and lacrosse, which was funny to me)

Dempf ,

How about Optimal Cheese Macross

randint ,
@randint@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz avatar

I was so confused when I saw your comment abou lactose intolerance and was wondering what it has to do with “optional in Chinese.” It took longer that I’d like to admit to realize that the original comment and yours said “cheese.”

Kyoyeou , (edited )

I’ve stopped learning Chinese when I left the country. I’ve only had HSK 2, but man do I miss no conjugation, you ate an apple pie for breakfast this morning? Well “This morning breakfast I eat an apple pie”.

You already told it was this mornings breakfast with context.

This is something you really see when discovering another language that is not yours. I’m on Modern Speaking Arabic right now and I see it a lot

WtfEvenIsExistence OP ,

Technically it’s:

今天早上的早餐我吃了一个苹果派

Today morning breakfast I eat(了）an apple pie

You have to put the “了” to be correct

了 is kinda like past tense

BCsven ,

Then you have Welsh where a lot of things are double affirmed in sentences removing ambiguity. even for the word yes you conjugate your reply as it depending on the quesrion they asked you.

Wyt. (Yes, you are. when asked as Am I?)

Ydw. (Yes, I am.)

Ydy. (Yes, he is.)

Ydy. (Yes, she is.)

Ydych. (Yes, you are. when asked as are We?)

Ydyn. (Yes, we are.)

Ydyn. (Yes, they are.)

tryptaminev ,

How do you pronounce Ydw, Ydy and Ydych?

tehevilone ,

Seems to be like “Eh-dew”, “Eh-dee”, “Eh-dich”, so eh- or uh- for the Y at the start. Welsh IPA guide on wiktionary says Y at the start is like the a at the start of “about”, when it’s not either a single-syllable or in the last syllable of a word, in which case it’s an “eee” sound, like the end of “happy”.

BCsven ,

Oh boy, Welsh is fun. Y is sort of an UH sound, W is a OO sound and CH is A hard back of throat noise you make for the real scottish LOCH

st0v ,

doesn’t Chinese have pronouns though?

她 she 他 he 它 it

or am I missing something ?

HandwovenConsensus ,

They’re written differently, but pronounced the same.

RunningSpaces ,

Cries in HSK 0

Octopus1348 ,

My turn: Nektek vannak nemek szerinti névmásaitok?

zemon ,

Wait. What does genders have to do with a language??? Várj csak. Mi köze a nemeknek a nyelvhez???

DominicO ,

in my language we have one pronoun for all genders(siya). it just morphs depending on context(siya/sila/niya/nila).

leap123 ,
@leap123@lemmy.world avatar

Kalian punya kata ganti?

TimewornTraveler ,

yeah debates over Neo-pronouns are always a really tedious Anglo-centric thing. it’s not something that the majority of trans people worldwide are even able to care about

Chunk ,

If you don’t use someone’s preferred neopronouns you are LITERALLY committing genocide against trans people. That’s right, not using the preferred neopronouns is as grave a sin against humanity as any famine, plague, or murderous policy.

Balthazar ,
@Balthazar@sopuli.xyz avatar

Just for clarity, are you serious (or is this a joke)?

corsicanguppy ,

The person used “literally” so even if it were serious then it can still be completely ignored as per the “litchally” policy.

Same for anyone who says “action the ask to reduce the spend”, although those poseurs are hunted anytime they leave the car lot.

TimewornTraveler ,

They are neither being sincere nor joking. They’re creating a strawman through hyperbole to suggest that anyone who cares about pronouns is deranged. In reality, usually when someone gets upset about pronouns it is not because their neos weren’t used, it was from being deliberately misgendered as an attack on them despite knowing the preferred he/she/they pronouns.

TimewornTraveler ,

Oh fuck off, attitudes like this one are the reason we can’t actually grow in this discussion.

escapesamsara ,

Yeah I feel some groups would have been better served getting on the gender abolition train rather than gender overspecialization; but it’s nicer to feel like you can pinpoint exactly where you belong than let go of the sillier social constructs in a world so invested in making them artificially important.

TimewornTraveler ,

well artificial or not they are still important. it could be argued that our connection with reality itself is a social construct, at least insofar as we think in language and comprehend the world through language.

pronouns aren’t just jewels bedazzling our language. They’re a fundamental grammatical part of it. the language through which we understand the world only holds up with some basic underlying structures. so how we choose what words to use to stand in for something really shapes how we understand that thing.

It’s even more complicated by the fact that English pronouns have historically tended to be a closed class of words. the language has never readily coined or adopted new pronouns in the way we adopt new nouns and verbs (i.e., “google it”). that’s not to say it’s impossible for pronouns to become open-class and for neo-pronouns to work, but it’s fighting a battle against not just modern biases but also centuries (millenia?) of fundamental structure.

cicapocok ,

My native language is genderless so I really dislike all the gendered grammar and words in different languages. English is very easy but in other cases when you start to have a male and a female version of each word which sometimes can be irregular and give you the clue that ohh yeah this should be male but noooo it’s female and in many cases there is just simply no logic behind them it is just the way they are.

HerrLewakaas ,

German even has a neutral gender because two aren’t enough of a headache lol

sergih ,

Plus 4 cases which makes it so that there are 16 (Masc, Fem, Neutr, Plural X 4 cases) different ways of typing an article depending on the gender of the word and what the word is doing whereas in English this is all replaced by “The”. And don’t forget about declining the adjective and the noun in some cases.

Rant over.

Kiosade ,

So just get the whole country to use one “the”, simple 😎

interolivary , (edited )
@interolivary@beehaw.org avatar

And then like half of the articles are “der” and you just have to use context to figure out which one it is

Edit: I was randomly reminded of this graffiti I saw in Berlin:

https://beehaw.org/pictrs/image/0740eed3-5c0c-4a27-b882-365510659ffa.webp

Dicska ,

… Aaaand as it turns out, most European languages are gendered. At least more gendered than ours.

wewbull ,

In most European languages you have to worry about misgendering a table.

AccountMaker ,

English is barely gendered. In Slavic languages, as someone said, verbs are conjugated differently based on gender. In Serbian for instance, to say “I saw him”, you would say “Video sam ga” if you were a man, and “Videla sam ga” if you were a woman. In Arabic I think even more things vary based on gender, like “to you” has different forms based on whether “you” are a man or a woman. It might not be specifically that, but I distinctly recall Arabic using gender-based forms for something that Slavic languages don’t.

balderdash9 ,

Hell, German has three genders. “The” is translated der, die or das depending on the noun

PastaGorgonzola ,

Three genders, and 5 words for “the”: der, die, das, dem, den. Depending on the gender of the noun and its function in the sentence.

letsgocrazy ,

And uses some of those words for “the” to be different versions of different genders in different cases.

Der nominative male, der Dativ female.

But call also be “that” or “which” or “who” depending on context.

Not to mention declension of adjectives.

Different declination for all three genders plus plural, plus differences for negation, no article, definite article, indefinite article all in in nominative, accusative, dative, genitive, version

If Excel spreadsheets for different versions of “the” turn you on, then German is your language.

balderdash9 ,

Yeah, I meant 3 words for the nominative case but your answer is more exact

TheGayTramp ,
@TheGayTramp@lemmy.ca avatar

You forgot “des”

PastaGorgonzola ,

Serves me right for trying to show off :D

pythonoob ,

Yeah Arabic is pretty gendered

iByteABit ,

I recently started very casually learning Chinese, this absolutely blew my mind along with the fact that verbs don’t have a billion different forms depending on time and the object of the sentence like all the other languages I know.

mcc ,

So there is 他／她, but only in writing so you can be very disrespectful and your conversation partner is none the wiser.

hOrni ,

Pronouns? In Polish we have gendered verbs.

derpgon ,

Slavic languages rise up! Eat the rich pronouns! ^/s^

WhyIDie ,

we need to go further - give me gendered punctuation

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