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HauntedBucket ,

I am specifically waiting for this to happen so I can be part of the flood to Firefox when they finally throw the switch.

cRazi_man , (edited )

Why wait?

Also, Brave browser exists for those who are particularly attached to chromium.

HauntedBucket ,

I’m not touching brave with a 10 ft pole but thanks for your advertisement

tdawg ,

Lemmy always seems to hate Brave but no one ever says why

majestictechie OP ,
  • shady issues in the past from company
  • heavily integrated with crypto (controversial for some)
  • CEO is a transphobe
  • it’s still Chrome under the hood
ivn ,
  • CEO is also homophobic and a covid skeptic
  • the browser used to modify crypto exchange URLs to add it’s affiliate code to it
  • it used to collect donations for content creators without their consent
ZeroHora ,
@ZeroHora@lemmy.ml avatar

Why people always forget the simple:

Switching Google to Brave is not an upgrade is a sidegrade.

morrowind ,
@morrowind@lemmy.ml avatar

Firefox is

  1. Dependant on Google’s ad revenue
  2. Joining the advertising market themselves
ZeroHora , (edited )
@ZeroHora@lemmy.ml avatar
  1. Dependant on Google’s money, the majority of Google comes from ads but not all of them. The deal is not directly with ads, is the default search engine on Firefox.
  2. This is recently, sucks a lot but we did not see yet how they’ll use that with the browser.

More importantly the biggest difference is Brave want to be like Google, is the goal of the company. Mozilla is funding the project in the shittiest way possible but is not the end goal.

yrmitz ,

So you are sure that Google and Mozilla doesn’t employ any homophobics? They obviously have some sort of mind reader?

ivn ,

You are right, I should have been more specific. He’s openly homophobic. I’m also pretty sure that’s not the case for Mozilla as he was Mozilla’s CEO and was pushed out over this specific thing.

I don’t know why you are shifting from CEO to employees.

tdawg ,

Ah ya I didn’t know about them being transphobic. That’s a shame

frankgrimeszz ,

My personal reason, I looked at their code and it was amateur town. Hacked together trash. There’s a proper way to modify Chromium and they didn’t follow any of it. In contrast, Vivaldi’s coders knew what they were doing. I don’t actively use or support Chrome, but if you’re going to do something, do it right.

ivn ,

I don’t know, I’ve seen answers to this so many times on Lemmy.

wreckedcarzz ,
@wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

I’ve seen this answered so many times it’d make your head spin, looney-toons style. If you don’t know then you haven’t been paying any attention.

cRazi_man ,

I’m just learning about what all the fuss around Brave is. But I’d be interested to hear how Google seems to be the ethical choice for a daily driver browser currently. It’s obviously fine to not want to use Brave, but how is it the inferior choice when compared to Chrome (or even considered a sidegrade)? Even with all the issues mentioned I’d still recommend it as the lesser of the 2 evils compared to Chrome.

ivn ,

No one is saying Chrome is the ethical choice, why are you reducing this to a 2 options choice?

cRazi_man ,

why are you reducing this to a 2 options choice?

I’m not.

No one is saying Chrome is the ethical choice

The commenter I’m replaying to implies they’re using Chrome primarily, and then reacted negatively to the mention of Brave. I’m asking how Chrome use is the acceptable choice and Brave is seemingly so bad in comparison.

ivn ,

I don’t think the commenter you are replying to is arguing that chrome is a better choice. He or she knows it’s bad but didn’t make the change out of lazyness (no offence). Change has a cost, especially if it implies changing habits. So people will just delay or avoid them.

KillingTimeItself ,

obviously, but when you have the option of just, not using chrome at all, why would you use anything chromium based to begin with, google is literally the problem here lmao

Sustolic ,

Brave is a great browser and the only chromium one I would ever use but mentioning it on Reddit OR Lemmy will cause you to get mass downvoted unfortunately

The browser lets you customize the dashboard so you can make the browser look as clean or minimal as you want with almost no distractions

Biggest issue I have with Firefox is that some websites can be broken but 99.9% of the time this is not Firefox’s fault and the only one to blame is lazy developer’s

Firefox out of the box doesn’t come with specific features that the websites that I use need which is why I haven’t made the switch yet, biggest one is that Firefox doesn’t work with Keychron’s in browser software that is used to customize their keyboards. Again this is not Firefox’s fault because Firefox didn’t adopt the feature because of security concerns which is completely valid and even commendable.

EldritchFeminity ,

I could see this as part of a metrics thing - if Google sees a big drop in users right after the rollout, it’s harder to brush it under the rug as having no correlation.

KillingTimeItself ,

brave is literally just chromium, it solves none of the fundamental problems other than being like, reasonably well built.

It’s chrome, but if it didnt’t try and kill you ever update. That’s the difference.

jherazob ,
@jherazob@beehaw.org avatar

www.spacebar.news/stop-using-brave-browser/

bluewing ,

Or perhaps try ungoogled chrome if you enjoy Chrome.

NegativeLookBehind ,
@NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world avatar

Lmao down voted to oblivion

atro_city ,

While introducing opt-out tracking where you data is sent to advertisers. Get LibreWolf instead.

VarosBounska ,

Oh I didn’t know this fork, thanks!

30p87 ,
@30p87@feddit.org avatar

Or just set the few relevant settings manually, if you need nightly/dev edition.

atro_city ,

Until the next dumb shit Mozilla does without telling its users.

30p87 ,
@30p87@feddit.org avatar

Except I’ve heard about every change from here. And as I read the nightly changelogs, it’s not that hidden actually.

atro_city ,

Yes, you're the exception, not the rule.

30p87 ,
@30p87@feddit.org avatar

The things I said apply to the people that need to use FF nightly/dev. And those people should know their stuff.

rockSlayer ,

If you need to use nightly, you’re already the exception to the rule. That means you need to read the changelogs.

atro_city ,

No you don't. Why do you need to read the changelogs?

rockSlayer , (edited )

When you use nightly, you’re using an unstable application that is likely to have many bugs that cause freezing or crashing. Reading the changelogs is a necessity when using unstable software. Using nightly builds of any application requires additional care on the part of the user.

atro_city ,

Just because it requires it doesn't mean most will follow it. Voting requires being informed, most people aren't. Driving cars requires paying attention, many people are on their phones while driving.

I could go on. You're describing an ideal.

30p87 ,
@30p87@feddit.org avatar

The manufacturer isn’t responsible for people being on their phones tho. What should they do? They can just warn you, and notice you about best practices.

atro_city ,

Which most people don't follow, which is exactly the point I'm making.

30p87 ,
@30p87@feddit.org avatar

Then it’s still their fault. Fuck the people not following. If I’m not following the rule of not jumping from my window that’s my fault.

atro_city ,

Yes, I read the manual of everything I use. I have read every law book back to front, know it by heart and will never ever unknowingly commit any crimes. The car I drive, I know how to repair, no mechanic needed, I write all my software because I've read every guide known to man, I am in fact the perfect human being with no flaws and am up to date on every rule there is.

30p87 ,
@30p87@feddit.org avatar

No. But I know the important parts, and I don’t blame the manufacturer for when I don’t.

Fashim ,

I’m about to reach a point where I just abandon technology. Become a full luddite and let it burn over its own hubris.

NiPfi ,

And in the meantime Mozilla keeps making worse decisions, too

gdog05 ,

Enshitification of all the things.

HotsauceHurricane ,

Someone who gives a damn needs to be in charge of mozilla but i dont see that happening.

thesporkeffect ,

As long as they are entirely supported by Google, they aren’t going to try too hard to outcompete them.

Ephera ,

In order to get away from that, they need to find alternative ways of making money, like showing ads, which loops us back around to the guy above saying they’re making bad decisions.

thesporkeffect ,

Your point is fair, but their real problem is they bloated up to absorb their insane budget and they are going to have to strip down to a reasonable size for a browser company before trying to establish a non-google revenue stream.

Ephera ,

How the hell would you know this? There’s a reason no grassroots project is able to compete with Chrome, Firefox or Safari, and it’s not for a lack of trying.

And if you’re going to tell me they should stop doing Pocket etc., then please refer to my comment above.

breakingcups ,

Wonder if the recent antitrust ruling about Google paying for being the default search engine will affect Mozilla’s funding.

ArbitraryValue ,

We need another meme like this about Firefox but with the first panel saying “Antitrust judgement against Google” and the second panel blank, without anyone coming to the rescue.

The large majority of Mozilla’s revenue comes from the money that Google pays to be the default search engine in Firefox.

Paradachshund ,

Has it actually been confirmed when it’s coming? I feel like this has been threatened for years now.

ivn ,

It started in june, for now it’s just showing a warning saying that the extension will soon no longer be supported. They’ll be disabled gradually until the beginning of 2025.

developer.chrome.com/…/mv2-deprecation-timeline

Paradachshund ,

Ah I see. Boiling the frog as it were.

ivn ,

Well, as much as I hate Google I don’t think that’s the intention of this particular point, rolling out big changes gradually is standard.

VarosBounska ,

I do not study in detail if this combination is necessary, but:

  • Firefox (of course)
  • Ghostery
  • Ublock Origin
  • Privacy Badger
  • Decentraleyes
  • Disconnect
ivn ,

All of them except uBlock Origin are in Arkenfox “Do not bother” extension list: github.com/arkenfox/user.js/wiki/4.1-Extensions#-…

Anafabula ,
@Anafabula@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Ghostery, Privacy Badger and Disconnect do nothing worthwhile that uBlock Origin doesn’t already do.

Zwiebel ,

privacyguides.org seems quite solid for recommendations

Truck_kun ,

For others, I set up uBlock at minimum.

For myself uBlock + uMatrix.

If on a computer need more security uBlock + uMatrix + NoScript.

uBlock and uMatrix can block scripts, but I find NoScript’s fine grain control to be user friendly. Makes it a pain to browse the web though, until you setup each of your normal sites.

ssm ,
@ssm@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

https://lemmy.sdf.org/pictrs/image/86cd0dac-085c-4610-bc51-7bcec45c7499.png

darkevilmac ,
@darkevilmac@lemmy.zip avatar

Source: I made it up

ssm , (edited )
@ssm@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

I guess Anonym, PPA, Cliqz, pocket, the default telemetry that is non-trivial to disable, and whatever this latest nonsense is are all just hallucinations.

Matriks404 ,

That doesn’t seem to be a source for OP’s message.

SuperIce ,

Mozilla is about to collapse due to the Google antitrust ruling though.

refalo ,

Um, what makes you think that?

Ghostalmedia ,
@Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world avatar

Mozilla makes about $590m a year.

$510m of that is from Google paying for the search engine default spot.

UNY0N ,

Well I for one hope they figure out an alternative income, like a premium subscription? Or perhaps look to get acquired by proton and get some integration going with those services? I’m no expert here, I just think that they have a lot of happy users, and there must be some way to figure this out financially.

anachronist ,

They need to reform as a non-profit with user membership, an elected board, and fundraising like Wikipedia.

hanke ,

This is the real answer

Ephera ,

I’m not aware of any non-profit with staffing the size of Mozilla. The problem is that you need to be able to make money and to set it aside for bad times, so you don’t have to fire employees the moment the donations falter.

The 501©(3) non-profit form of tax-exempt non-profit, which is what the Mozilla Foundation continues to be, is not allowed to do so. That’s why they opened up the for-profit Mozilla Corporation subsidiary that does most of the Firefox development.

On the plus side, the only shareholder of the Mozilla Corporation is the Mozilla Foundation, which therefore essentially cannot accept any of the profit the MoCo might make.

raspberriesareyummy ,

That’s a ridiulously low amount of money given the amount of users. I’d happily pay 10-20 bucks a year to keep mozilla alive. Not that I like it much, but more so than the big alternatives

Ghostalmedia ,
@Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, Apple seems to be able to fetch a little more than a billion per percent of the browser market (18% at 20B), but Mozilla is only able to score 0.5B for 2-3% of the market. Mozilla is getting a quarter of Apple’s rate.

That said, Apple has a lot more leverage than Google, and they can strong arm a better deal. I also wouldn’t be surprised if Safari users are just a more valuable marketing cohort. Firefox’s user base is going to have a lot more people who opt out of and or block targeted marketing.

SuperIce ,

The Google antitrust decision will result in Mozilla losing 90% of their revenue since Google won’t be allowed to pay them to use their search engine anymore.

Scrollone ,

The antitrust case is about Google and Apple, not Mozilla. It doesn’t mean the antitrust case will have any impact on Mozilla, because it’s not a major player, unlike Apple.

lolcatnip ,

I don’t think you realize where and why Mozilla gets its funding.

anachronist ,

Mozilla and its murder/suicide pact with Google falling apart may be the best thing that could possibly happen to Firefox.

Zagorath ,
@Zagorath@aussie.zone avatar

How convenient that this happens just a few days after Firefox implements the features that have been blocking me from switching for the last few years.

Still, I’m curious about other browsers. We know Chrome is killing V2, but what about other Chromium-based browsers? I saw below a comment espousing Brave, but I’d rather use Chrome than Brave because of the gross crypto bs. What about Vivaldi, Opera, and Chredge? Will they keep supporting Manifest V2?

Tar_alcaran ,

just a few days after Firefox implements the features that have been blocking me from switching for the last few years.

Which are those?

Zagorath ,
@Zagorath@aussie.zone avatar

Multi-window support on iPad is the main one. Less important, though it would have bugged me if they didn’t have it, is sustained Incognito tabs—which apparently they had until a couple of months ago, then removed without explanation, then added back in just 1 day ago, also without explanation. Found a thread on their forums with a whole bunch of people perplexed and asking what happened.

Mushroomm ,

Your first point at least is an iPad thing. Nothing is fully featured on the iPad. Not even safari. It’s thanks to that exact fact that chrome is at least mostly fully featured on the iPad. If safari had comparable function, you could bank on them blocking those features from the chrome app too. There’s a deal made somewhere. I wouldn’t be surprised if cash flow from Google is why safari is still the same piece of crap it always has been. “Hey your R&D + return for safari only nets you 1% YOY. We’ll give you 2% YOY if you just don’t even bother.”

They only know raising prices and knee-jerk reactions to competitive moves in their market space. Additional functionality for the user is only granted when it’s being used as a cudgle against their competition. Never for users benefit.

If you’re seeing new functionality on the iPad Firefox app, it’s likely because Firefox figured out a way to implement it without paying apple because they want the user to have that function. Totally different ethos.

ivn ,

Regulations, like the Digital Market Act, are also a big factor.

Zagorath ,
@Zagorath@aussie.zone avatar

If you’re seeing new functionality on the iPad Firefox app, it’s likely because Firefox figured out a way to implement it without paying apple because they want the user to have that function

Nothing at all remotely like that. They just don’t have enough developers to have implemented it sooner. It’s an API that Apple introduced in 2019, that Google implemented within months, Microsoft implemented within a couple of years, and Mozilla finally implemented this July.

ivn ,

There are actually no alternative browser on iOS. Before the European Digital Market Act all iOS browser have to use webkit, so while you could install Firefox, Chrome and others, they were actually using Safari’s rendering engine. I believe that’s where a lot of the limitations come from. Now with the DMA Firefox could use it’s own rendering engine but this hasn’t landed yet. I don’t know if any other browser has switched from webkit yet.

Zagorath ,
@Zagorath@aussie.zone avatar

There are actually no alternative browser on iOS

Sort of. As you say, it’s more accurate to say that they’re forced to use Safari’s rendering, but everything else is up to them, the same as how any other app would be developed. That’s how they get their own features like bookmark syncing etc.

Being able to have multiple windows of the same app is a feature Apple introduced in 2019, and obviously Safari supported it immediately. Google Chrome added support for multiple windows after a few months. I switched to Microsoft Edge once they added support for it about a year, maybe 18 months later, and have just been waiting for Firefox to finally support it so I can switch to that.

Incidentally, 2019 is also the year Firefox finally added support on their desktop browser for a CSS property (column-span) that a site I used to frequent required to work. Though by that time I no longer used that particular site.

AdrianTheFrog ,
@AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world avatar

I use firefox, I mostly like it, but it still doesn’t support chromium style tab groups (no, that one extension is not similar), and its webgpu implementation also doesn’t work on most websites more than a year after Google made their version available by default

BarbecueCowboy , (edited )

I’ve been using Vivalid, they have ‘Workspaces’ (as its Tab Group analog) which is different but in a way that was a pleasant surprise and kind of reminds me of older systems. Imagine working with one tab group at a time and the rest disappear when you’re not on that workspace.

erev ,
@erev@lemmy.world avatar

is that chromium?

BarbecueCowboy ,

It’s chromium based, but it’s pretty custom at this point. Chrome extensions are still compatible, but the interface/etc will throw you a bit if you’re looking for something that’s a direct swap.

morrowind ,
@morrowind@lemmy.ml avatar

Vivaldi has 3 types of tab groups, workspaces, sessions, and profiles.

Take your pick

archchan ,

Tab groups are in the works but we haven’t heard anything new about it since March.

AdrianTheFrog ,
@AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world avatar

Mozilla could definitely be putting their development time into the areas that the browser is actually behind in

dinozaur ,

Not sure if this is “that one extension”, but I use Simple Tab Groups for Workspaces-like functionality, similar to Edge and Vivaldi. I know, it isn’t tab groups, but I use it similarly.

Ephera ,

I’m guessing, they’re referring to multi-account container tabs. It’s what the Chrome feature took heavy inspiration from, but of course without the privacy protection aspect.

Railison ,

I’ve started using Tree Style Tabs in Firefox and really like it. Maybe vertical tabs aren’t so bad?

Ghostalmedia ,
@Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world avatar

I’m really hoping Google’s antitrust case doesn’t kill Mozilla. Over 85% of Mozilla’s cash flow is dependent on Google paying for that search box.

Scrollone ,

If Mozilla stopped paying his CEO millions of dollars… and if they actually financed development with people donations…

Ephera ,

We don’t know what they pay their new CEO.

Sarcasmo220 ,

I don’t think google wants to get hit with another antitrust lawsuit for web browsing, so I am sure they will figure out some other deal to funnel money to Firefox

Ghostalmedia ,
@Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world avatar

Good point. Could be like MS and Apple in the late 90’s. When Apple was on death’s door, Gates invested in Apple so MS would have faux competition for regulators.

timestatic ,

Honestly at least they’d be forced to revamp their business model and focus on their users. I’d willingly donate to them monthly if it went to firefox directly and they acted in our interest accordingly

RadioFreeArabia ,

I really hope there’s a significant rise in Firefox -and derivatives- usage share. It will be good for everyone, even those stuck on Chromium browsers.

Stern ,
@Stern@lemmy.world avatar

my issue with firefox atm is that both twitter extensions I use have been hobbled/removed by it for what looks to me to be spurious reasons.

github.com/kheina-com/Blue-Blocker/…/294

github.com/dimdenGD/OldTwitter/discussions/752

inb4 “lol @ using twitter in 2024” I just steal memes from it, and mastodon/bluesky simply aren’t up to speed yet.

Weighing options though I’ll go with Firefox and shitty twitter experience rather then Chrome and the ads everywhere experience. Not really a contest there. Just idle complaints.

SapphironZA ,

“And then Mozilla management comes in from the top rope with the chair”

Seriously, for profit companies should not own open source projects.

Chakravanti ,

You can’t stop that. But you can use Librewolf if video download helper stops ignoring Librewolf.

SapphironZA ,

I mostly use waterfox, which is very similar to librefox. I just like the more compacted UI and performance optimization they have done.

Chakravanti ,

That’s awesome. Does Video DownloaderHelper work there?

SapphironZA ,

I believe so. Have not checked recently. All my Firefox extentions work as expected

Ephera ,

That for-profit company is owned by a non-profit. They don’t have shareholders to which they could pay out the profits.

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