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RBWells , (edited )

We went back to the office, I don’t care because my commute is immaterial BUT now I leave my laptop there, I disassembled the workstation at home and packed it away, I will not work at home now. Teams is on my phone because I don’t put the work email on my phone and needed a way to tell my team if I will be unexpectedly delayed. I don’t open it ever though, and now we have a group text might take it off too.

ETA: I did also delete MS Teams, we have each other’s phone numbers now.

aphonefriend ,

If it’s outlook you can access it from “webmail.your companydomain.com/edu/org” from any browser. That way you don’t need teams on your phone either.

bitchkat ,

You can just login at office.com on your mobile browser.

toddestan ,

They have the ability to turn off the web access now. My company recently did just that - if I try to access office.com on a personal device, my log in is blocked. Works fine on a company controlled device.

I’m not sure how they tell the difference since it’s through the browser. But my guess would be something to do with the lack of all their security software they load onto company controlled computers that have hooks into everything.

MystikIncarnate ,

My previous workplace was like this. It didn’t get to this point, I left before it got to the point of being told you’re not allowed to wfh under any circumstances, but I was very confused why I needed to go to the office, to do my IT job, helping people with their computers remotely. I go to the office, to work remotely. Which doesn’t make any sense at all.

What is special about the office that allows me to work better/faster/more effectively/whatever? Nobody could give me an answer. I can easily run the tools at home and work fine from there, but I’m not allowed.

My specialty is in network operations, if they want my work to 100% go through their equipment and firewalls and stuff, I can make that happen. With little effort, I can setup a system on a VLAN, and VPN that VLAN to work, blocking it from all other traffic apart from the VPN. It would be the only system on that VLAN (apart from the firewall/VPN device), ensuring no possibility of cross contamination between my equipment and theirs. They even had an openVPN host already configured, which they would only need to generate a connection file for, in order for me to get it working. I can then proxy 100% of my traffic through an office system and it would be identical to being present in the office, apart from me being physically there.

At home I have a dedicated room for my computer activities, where I can close the door and lock it if required, so I can remain undisturbed.

I made sure they understood all of this but they still wanted me in the office at least 4 days a week. I’m still not sure why.

I left that job, and my new job doesn’t even have a physical office, so I’m permanently working from home.

BlueMagma ,

They probably wanted to get rid of you. So instead of firing you, they imposed stupid rules to makes you leave on your own.

MystikIncarnate ,

Oh probably. From everything I saw it was impossible for me to meet their demands.

Partway through my employment I moved to a new home, after a few months my SO got a job. She doesn’t have a license but needed to travel about 15 minutes to work (30m round trip). I was basically the only person who could, or would, help her get to work. I worked 9-5, her shift was 2:30 to 10:30.

For a while, my brother would drive her to work and I would drive her home, even that was stressful, because I’d wake up at 6:30 to shower and get ready to leave by 8AM so I can be at work for 9, then I had to stay up to bring her home, which she wasn’t out at 10:30 promptly every day, so I’d frequently get home after 11:30. Going to bed at, or after midnight, to wake up by 6:30 AM, five days a week isn’t fun, even at four days in the office per week, it was not great.

Thought-out this time I was asking for more wfh, since then I can at least sleep from midnight to 8 AM or so. They wouldn’t budge.

My brother ended up having a medical issue that caused him to be unable to drive her to work, so I told my employer I had to work from home, since I have to take care of getting her both to, and from work, and that, at most, the situation would last around 10-12 months (she was working on her driver’s license, and that’s the minimum waiting/learning time for new drivers, before they can drive without a chaperone); I also informed them that I could attend the office once per week, since she had one weekday off per week as part of her shift rotation. They “compromised” by basically telling me to follow their schedule or be laid off. Their schedule was: in office every day from 9-1. Travel home between 1 and 2pm, and do what’s needed to get my SO to work. Once I’m done that, I can work from home when I return from dropping her off (usually 2:30 or 3 PM to 5 PM or so… Whatever our quitting time was), with one day (her day off) fully in office, and one day fully from home. So 3 of 5 days was this insane in-office then drive home and finish at home thing, one day was fully remote, and one day was fully in office.

Needless to say, I burned out fast. Got a note from my doctor saying I was disabled (he didn’t specify why, but if push came to shove it would be something mental health related, he never needed to AFAIK), and I wasn’t able to work right now, and currently the recovery time needed was unknown. So I went on disability.

I also want to mention that through all the half day nonsense, they expected me to log 6.5 hours in their time tracking software, which is something I struggle with at the best of times. When I’m stressed, the first thing that suffers is my ability to correctly log and account for my time in any system. So I had 4 hours in the morning to work from the office on my “split days” (as I called them), plus, maybe 2.5 hours at most during my work from home time. Totalling 6.5 hours. I couldn’t so much as take a shit or I would fall behind on my time tracking. Normally over an 8 hour shift, the 1.5 hours of missing time in the day would be for breaks/lunch. It’s hard to take lunch when I’m barely able to make it home in an hour, and barely able to get to/from her work in 30 minutes. I usually work through lunch because I tend to have time where I have no idea what I was doing, so I can’t really account for it in the time tracker. With the 1.5 hour block of driving in the middle of my day, plus all the distractions and unaccounted time I know I’ll accrue from co-workers pulling me away from my work to ask asinine questions about things that don’t have a presence in the time tracking system (all ticket based, and they would ask me about prospective projects that wouldn’t have a ticket for months), I knew that what they were asking as an impossible task.

After I felt up to the task of returning to that insanity, instead of keeping my seat warm for me, they laid me off before I was set to return to work. I only felt up to it because it would have only been a matter of a few months before my SO was able to take her driver’s test to be able to drive solo, and after 6 months of being off I wasn’t suicidal from the stress anymore, but the bills were starting to pile up.

I was able to determine that they hired a new person in the same role I had, who was on probation at the time when I wanted to return.

I’ll let you conclude what you want from that. I’ll legally bound not to speak poorly of the company, or what happened after my layoff. Everything I’ve said here is simply the facts of the matter.

In any case, after some thought, I’m glad I don’t work with people who would force me into that kind of position for a paycheque. I have a new job now and I’m slowly paying off any accumulated bills from my time disabled and/or laid off. The new company, as I believe I’ve mentioned, is entirely wfh, and I’m certain if I ended up in a similar spot, they would be vastly more empathetic to my plight. I’m even earning a small amount more per year, not enough to write home about, but it’s still a bigger number than I was given at the last place. I’m happy where I am, and I’m largely not stressed, apart from the normal stresses of my job. I no longer need to pay for gas to get to the office, nor parking, since the previous job was located in a nearby city in the downtown area, with no free parking for employees, so I had to get paid public parking out of my own pocket. I estimate the change will save me around $6000/yr or more. On top of my small bump in pay, I should have a bit less than $10k/yr more money to myself. Right now all of that is sunk into repayments, but long term, its basically free money.

what_was_not_said ,

If you work in the US, NDAs tied to severance are generally illegal.

Even so, I gave my last employer the benefit of silence for the amount of time my severance would have covered in regular salary. That time is now past.

MystikIncarnate ,

Not in the USA, I’m not sure that we have a similar law. Any agreement that may or may not have resulted from the above story, which I cannot confirm nor deny, would have been examined by a legal professional whom is familiar with local laws and if such an error were to have been included in such a document, they would have surely pointed it out.

I’m not saying that’s what happened, but if it did, I certainly would have had any such agreement looked at by a professional who is familiar with the laws to the point of knowing if such a thing were not enforceable.

I wish I could say more specifically what happened, including my opinions, or name and shame the company involved but I am compelled to not disclose any such information. I also cannot elaborate on why or how I am limited on what I can disclose.

I feel like I’m walking a tightrope. The chances that someone is going to even care enough to trace my username to my identity, then do something about it, is pretty slim, even if I were to disclose everything, and name and shame as I would love to do… But I’m more honorable than most I suppose.

corsicanguppy ,

Or a “constructive dismissal”.

BearOfaTime ,

I’ve worked for numerous enterprises since the 90’s.

None of them have been this idiotic. All of them implemented secure channels. Remember SecurID cards for dial up connections?

MystikIncarnate ,

Sorry no. I was not a part of the workforce when working remotely involved dial up connections.

I was in highschool when DSL and cable internet became the norm. From then on out, it was all VPN.

krnl386 ,
@krnl386@lemmy.ca avatar

My guess is that some businesses get tax breaks from municipalities in exchange for filling office spaces with warm bodies. The idea is that people in office buildings support local businesses by buying lunch, and sometimes grabbing a pint after work.

I’m not trying to excuse this trend, in fact as an IT person myself I 100% agree with the sentiment, I’m just trying to share what I’ve been told.

friend_of_satan ,

It’s even simpler than that: they leased the office space and have to continue to pay that lease or else pay an early termination fee. This is basically the sunk cost fallacy. But you are right that sometimes additionally they get tax breaks for certain office space, for instance the San Francisco mid-market tax break (AKA the Twitter tax break)

tinkling4938 ,

This is the excuse my employer gave. So I’m to take a pay cut (gas, wear and tear on my vehicle, loss of time to commute) so I can spend more money to prop up other businesses for a tax break that is likely to go into some rich ass C-levels bonus or shareholders pocket for cut costs?

Fuuuck that. Its just another way of picking the labor class clean to the bone.

DrDickHandler ,

Yes. That’s exactly what is happening.

Hoomod ,

Corporations want their money

mPony ,

but it’s not their money until they coerce people into giving it to them

Glytch ,

Corporations want their our money

gmtom ,

Commercial realestste makes up a significant amount of rich people’s investment portfolios. And if people stopped needing office space the property would devalue and those rich people would lose easy money.

So they have all collectively agreed to force their workers back to the office I order to keep the real estate values up and keep their investments positive.

pelerinli ,

Also rich can afford to have a investment in busy city areas while regular folk can get a house in urban areas at best. And work from home is leading people to the urban areas where rents are less.

PunnyName , (edited )

Work from library.

ChillPenguin ,

As some in IT. If my company ever does this. I’m doing the same thing. Genius play.

EmperorHenry ,
@EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

BAM! God I need to start doing shit like this.

jeanofthedead ,

I can’t believe people have work apps on their personal devices. Delete that shit!

icedterminal ,

No matter what app it is, if employers require one to be used on a smartphone, they are legally obligated to provide you with a work phone. If they refuse, they are legally obligated to provide reimbursement for your personal mobile plan. This can be as simple as $5 or $10 added monthly to a paycheck, or as detailed as actual usage down to the kilobyte.

Even if it’s as simple as clocking in and out. If they won’t provide a phone or reimburse, they must have some other method to complete the task. Whether it be a computer or paper. Failing that, they are not upholding the law of providing you tools necessary to complete your job. Which means if they terminate you for any of the above under “not able to do your job”, it is retaliation for you requiring them to do their job. You could potentially win a suit against them.

dev_null ,

Reimbursement for a mobile plan? If I need to use a special authenticator app to login to my work computer, and the app is fully offline (and I only need to use it at the office where I have Wi-fi anyway, if I needed it, but I don’t), then what does a mobile plan have to do with anything? I could use it on a phone without a SIM card, or a tablet that can’t have one.

icedterminal ,

My examples are the common scenarios. Apps typically use data. Even if in your case data isn’t used, your employer is still required to provide you with the tools necessary to complete your job. It’s as simple as that.

dev_null , (edited )

You said “No matter what app it is” which is the point of my confusion. So you actually meant “apps that use data”, that’s fair enough, thank you for the clarification.

your employer is still required to provide you with the tools necessary to complete your job

Yeah, that’s what I thought, that the employer is required to provide a work phone if they require the usage of an app. But you are saying they can refuse as long as they reimburse data, which doesn’t even help if the app doesn’t use data. How is that “refusal of a legal obligation” working?

they are legally obligated to provide you with a work phone. If they refuse

This is the part that I’m not getting. So are they legally obligated or are they allowed to refuse like you say. It can’t be both ways.

Riven ,

Just look at it as wear and tear. Doesn’t matter how miniscule it may be it’s still eating up your storage and battery life in addition to battery charge. Sure you could charge at work too for battery charge but as miniscule as it is it’s still killing your battery life.

Also, don’t give corporations any leeway because they WILL take advantage of the employee given the chance. For every single rule and regulation that helps the employee someone had to spill blood to achieve it.

dev_null ,

That’s what I think, which is why I’m asking icedterminal where did they get the info that the employer can refuse to provide a phone, it doesn’t seem right to me.

Riven ,

Maybe in their country? Weird one.

icedterminal , (edited )

It doesn’t matter if it’s apps that use data or apps that don’t use data. If your employer requires you to install an app on your personal phone, you can refuse. It is your legal right. If you choose to exercise your legal rights, your employer must provide you with an alternative method that doesn’t involve your personal phone. Whatever they choose.

If you agree to installing a work related app on your personal phone, you must be compensated. If they refuse to compensate, you’re back to square one. They must provide you alternatives.

If your employer refuses to supply you with the tools to complete your job and/or refuse to compensate personal phone use for work related reasons, they are breaking the law. If they fire you for exercising your rights, it’s unlawful termination.

Here’s an example: My employer started requiring 2FA for the computer logins. They wanted me to install an app by Cisco. I said no. You can provide a locked down phone that can be used for the sole purpose of 2FA. They declined as that isn’t in their budget and “unnecessary”. They later came back with a little keychain that’s bound to my account. I press a button on the keychain and get the 2FA code. I can do my job and they did their job and gave me the tools to do so.

dev_null ,

Ok, so it’s not that they can refuse to provide a device, it’s that if you voluntarily agree to use your personal device, then they have to provide compensation (for the data, etc.). Your original comment said they can refuse to provide a device, hence my confusion.

icedterminal ,

No, they can still refuse to provide a device as my original comment states. Since my employer refused to do so, they came up with an alternative without any additional input from me. They completely side stepped the app requirement by using a little key chain once they reached out to Cisco. Your employer has options. They have to find out what works best to make sure you can do the job they have hired you to do.

dev_null ,

Ok, so they refused, but provided an alternative to the app. Makes sense!

Taohumor ,

Wow I didn’t even know this.ty

tourist ,
@tourist@lemmy.world avatar

My employer provides us with a “tech allowance” as a bonus every month

It’s not enough to buy a barely functional work laptop, but you can “buy a laptop” through them, and then forfeit the bonus until it’s “paid off”

I’m kinda awful with money, so I pretty much need every cent I can get. That bonus goes towards keeping my head above water in the debt trap I’m in.

So my “work computer” which requires their spyware antivirus to be installed is a virtual machine. It’s been two years and no complaints so far. Great antivirus.

dbx12 ,

That goes into the work profile of my android phone and that profile of switched off after clocking out. Simple as that, I don’t have to carry two phones and get my peace after hours. And my company respects my free time which also helps s lot.

mPony ,

my company respects my free time

Well that doesn’t sound like a recipe for anyone becoming a billionaire from your labour

popekingjoe ,
@popekingjoe@lemmy.world avatar

It is wild to me, even as I have one work app on my phone. It’s only there because it allows me to clock in and out, and my personal phone is significantly higher spec’d than the work provided phone.

Even so, I cannot be contacted via this app and cannot perform work with it outside of the geo-restricted area.

stoy ,

Right now I am on vacation, my work phone stays at home with an empty battery.

They still have my private number if it is an absolute disaster at work and they need my help, but untill sunday evening I won’t even charge my work phone, let alone check it for messages/calls.

Work apps stay on the work phone, the ONLY exception to that rule I will ever make is work MFA apps.

But I’d sooner get a new separate phone for that if I don’t get a company phone.

grrgyle ,

Re MFA, I’ve been using a hardware key and it’s so much better. I don’t need my phone for a single work related thing anymore, so I can just ignore it until breaks.

Nibodhika ,

I have slack in it, because I don’t like walking around with two phones, but I have it configured to stop notifying after hours. Also worth noting that I do have a phone from the company, it’s just that I find it cumbersome to walk around with two phones.

soycapitan451 , (edited )

This is me, too. I run a dual Sim on my phone for this reason. I’ve always been good at ignoring things after hours unless motivated by self interest.

Digestive_Biscuit ,
@Digestive_Biscuit@feddit.uk avatar

I know somebody who does this and accidentally racked up a £3,500 phone bill while on holiday. He was accidentally using the wrong SIM for data.

Appoxo ,
@Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Same here. O365 and ticketing app.
O365 is shut up during off-time and the ticketing system doesnt have notifications.
I would probably take a 2nd phone but the hassle of keeping track of and charging both is too inconvenient for me.

Digestive_Biscuit ,
@Digestive_Biscuit@feddit.uk avatar

I have two phones. A personal one and one provided by my company. I like being able to turn off my work phone when on holiday, etc and keep my personal life separate.

I do know a lot of people who sold their personal phones when given a work phone and use it for both. Saves some money I guess but no thanks.

I also know people who have two phones but install all the work apps on their personal phones to make it easier for them. No thanks!

vonbaronhans ,

I’m one of the “company-provided-phone-only” folks. Thankfully, I work for a pretty decent employer who has never abused that in the nearly 10 years I’ve worked there. But I realize that’s a pretty rare privilege.

Dempf ,

For me it is a convenience thing – I spend a lot of time working from home and sometimes it’s nice to just be able to grab my phone and join a meeting while I’m sitting on the couch or w/e without needing to go over to my home office room. My team almost never does anything outside of work hours, so it’s not like I’m getting pinged or anything. In the rare situation where I get some notifications from a chat channel outside of working hours (usually someone in a different time zone) then I can just turn off work apps in Android and it goes away.

BurnSquirrel ,

I don’t think it’s this “all rich jerks own commercial real estate” thing that everyone going on about. I get the feeling it’s more about the managerial/director types. The ones who are maybe well off but maybe not quite rich. My director owns a 150,000 tesla, but I don’t think he’s near well off enough to own an office building.

Anyway, at a certain level and upwards, all you do is meet and talk to people all day. They value face to face communication because that’s a more effective meeting, and builds more rapport with the members.

SkyezOpen ,

They value face to face communication because that’s a more effective meeting, and builds more rapport with the members.

More effective… At what? Are you the one who schedules meetings that could have been avoided with a 3 sentence email?

psivchaz ,

I think it’s more about manager capability. A person who manages IT, for example, but has little idea what that entails will want people in the office. They have no idea if a given ticket should take 3 hours or 3 days to resolve, so it’s easier to just have their people in the office where they can look at them and verify that they are, in fact, sitting at a computer.

The ideal work environment for me, and I think most people, is one where you’re judged based on what you do and how well you do it, while details like when you do it and where you are when you do it get left to your discretion. Managing someone like that requires skill and knowledge in what they’re doing though.

sukhmel ,

That’s okay with me, but is there at least one meeting that requires me? Only having managers in the office could allow one to have an office ten times smaller, and no other people are needed there anyway (or live in a thousand miles radius from the office, since all the managers live in the costly city in the costly state, and the most of others are not even in the States)

xilona ,

Well done mate! 👏👏👏

BilboBargains ,

We have to call their bluff from time to time and remind the management that without us, none of their shit works. When we down tools its not like they can pick them up and get the show back on the road.

Taohumor ,

Kinda sad this is what it comes down to that they can’t be reasoned with like humans. I’d be looking for a new place to work.

Asafum ,

“I can grab any piece of shit off the street and replace you in 20 seconds.” Is what most of them think when it comes to meat machine labor like myself. :(

Soggy ,

Individually? Maybe. That’s why worker solidarity is important. Let the bastard replace the whole team while you’re out front protesting shit pay and long hours.

Anticorp ,

That works for menial labor in a down job market or a city without much opportunity. It doesn’t work for most career oriented positions, or in a strong job market. It costs a company considerably more to replace someone than to compensate them better.

Riven ,

I’m with you brother. I actually enjoy my job and my bosses are decent, they never micromanage or get in my way. Ill still take ‘sick’ mental health days off every 2 months or so just so they’re reminded how much of a pain in the ass it is without me here. I also take all my vacation time but it’s usually in one go for extended vacations. Gotta make sure they’re reminded every couple months though.

repungnant_canary ,

I presume you’re from the US but at first I was surprised you can even not take all vacation days. Cause in my country it is actually illegal to not use all vacation days and the employer pays a fine for that. Which leads to a bunch of people having days or even weeks free in February/March as they’re using their vacation days (the law necessitates them to be used by Q1 or so of following year).

Riven ,

Yea from the US. I phrased it that way because I can actually bank vacation days and use them next year, up until a certain cap at least. Actually used it to take a long vacation in japan last year.

masquenox ,

Nicely done.

MrShankles ,

I work night shifts. My manager one time called me around 2pm to ask me something menial and waking me up (as I was still sleeping for my next shift at 7pm).

So naturally, I called him at 2AM when I was at work… because I had an “urgent” question about a work policy lol. He got the picture, and that shit never happened again

olutukko ,

in my country you’re not obligated to answer to anything work related after your work hours unless you’re manager or superior or it is exliciptly said in work contract that you be on call.

Squizzy ,

In my country you are on call and not paid for it, thats the workaround there.

olutukko ,

well that sucks

Squizzy ,

Yup, on call pay was rolled in pay which was then cut back to where it was previously. Fuck Irish unions.

lightnsfw ,

I get comp time when I’m on call.

birbalkumar ,

Working from home has become increasingly popular and offers incredible flexibility. If you’re looking to manage your finances effectively while working remotely, consider using apps like Possible Finance. These apps can help you stay on top of your budget and financial goals, making your work-from-home experience even more rewarding.

bfg9k ,

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/57487819-abaf-4d07-b376-12271bc8b849.jpeg

Desistance ,
@Desistance@lemmy.world avatar

Malicious Compliance! The only way to go.

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