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SUSE Requests openSUSE to Rebrand

cross-posted from: lemm.ee/post/37281970

Believe it or not, an unexpected conflict has arisen in the openSUSE community with its long-time supporter and namesake, the SUSE company.

At the heart of this tension lies a quiet request that has stirred not-so-quiet ripples across the open source landscape: SUSE has formally asked openSUSE to discontinue using its brand name.

Richard Brown, a key figure within the openSUSE project, shared insights into the discussions that have unfolded behind closed doors.

Despite SUSE’s request’s calm and respectful tone, the implications of not meeting it could be far-reaching, threatening the symbiotic relationship that has benefited both entities over the years.

moontorchy ,

Oh wow. SUSE family of distribution is relatively small footprint. Whole story sounds like “splitting the hair”. The only reasonable explanation is that SUSE hired some self-glorified marketer from big corp. omg…

fr0g ,

No, there are good reasons for it. A lot of people get confused between SUSE and openSUSE offerings. Often SUSE customers show up in openSUSE places, because they believe that it's a place they can get official support. And I'm sure a lot of potential customers might get confused in the same way too.
On the flip side there are also a lot of openSUSE (adjacent) users who think SUSE is (secretly or not) making openSUSE development decisions or think they can dand SUSE to do that and that.

So there are some good reasons to consider a rebranding, but also some speaking against it, like the less of recognition it might entail.

agressivelyPassive ,

And you really think, people who are willing and able to buy enterprise support for their Linux distro get confused by the naming? Sure, there’s that one confused dude, but you also have people asking Facebook where they left their keys.

OpenSuse is essentially free marketing for SUSE, nobody would know them otherwise. Why would you give that away?

Suse is not a huge company, it has neither a large enterprise backer nor any killer features, and its market share is relatively small compared to Red Hat or Canonical. Throwing away free marketing while alienating a relatively passionate community is a kind of brainrot only MBA can come up with.

fr0g ,

And you really think, people who are willing and able to buy enterprise support for their Linux distro get confused by the naming?

No, I don't think that. I know that because I'm active in the community.

OpenSuse is essentially free marketing for SUSE, nobody would know them otherwise.

That is absolute nonsense. SUSE mostly serves large enterprise customers. That's an entirely different demographic from people who care about Desktop Linux or setting up a home server.

Edit:

its market share is relatively small compared to Red Hat or Canonical.

I'm pretty sure SUSE is bigger than Canonical.

Editedit: According to wikipedia SUSE's revenue is about twice as high as Canonical's

agressivelyPassive ,

That is absolute nonsense. SUSE mostly serves large enterprise customers.

And where do you think the people deciding what to buy get their information? Mind share is important.

I’m pretty sure SUSE is bigger than Canonical.

That’s actually surprising to me, but I’d argue that Suse offers more products, it seems like Rancher, Longhorn, etc. have no canonical equivalent.

Laser ,

And where do you think the people deciding what to buy get their information?

Advertisements at large airports

LeFantome ,

OMG. This is so hilariously true.

fr0g ,

And where do you think the people deciding what to buy get their information? Mind share is important.

Modt certainly not in Linux distro community spaces, because those are completely irrelevant for them and their needs.

skullgiver ,
@skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

deleted_by_author

    •
    anothermember ,

    as did CentOS before it

    Fedora is older than CentOS?

    LeFantome ,

    Almost everybody that chooses SUSE ( SLE ) does so because of SAP.

    panicnow ,

    I’m surprised and happy that SUSE is still doing well. I have fond memories of using SUSE in the enterprise especially around their “perfect guest” campaign for using it in virtualized environments. I thought they had very well-baked integration with large Windows networks—things just worked out of the box that didn’t with RHEL. I’m sure a lot has changed in the last decade but I appreciated their cooperative stance in the enterprise.

    ulu_mulu ,

    OpenSuse is essentially free marketing for SUSE, nobody would know them otherwise

    I’ve been working for big enterprises for many years, SUSE is used in enterprise environment to run SAP systems because it’s recommended by SAP, OpenSuse has nothing to do with that.

    monobot ,

    And relying on marketing by someone you don’t control is not good decision even if losing some mind share.

    monobot ,

    I am in the linux world 20+ years. Used SUSE for short amout of time back than and never really cared much about it, just glad it still exist.

    This is the first time I am hearing openSUSE is not part od SUSE.

    Having different name should be good for all. I think openSUSE people should have done it long time ago. But sounds like name is not the only problem.

    Strit , (edited )
    @Strit@lemmy.linuxuserspace.show avatar

    If they were to rename/rebrand, what would be the new name, do you think?

    I’ve heard mention of GeekLinux/GeekOS.

    Kusimulkku ,

    Dear Lord I hope they don’t go with that one.

    sugartits ,

    CringeOS!

    Dirk ,
    @Dirk@lemmy.ml avatar

    It would be non-professional as frick.

    drunkosaurus ,

    Is openSusie different enough to be considered?

    kurcatovium ,

    That is terrible idea, it’s even worse than my fun proposal of openSAUCE…

    Hexarei ,
    @Hexarei@programming.dev avatar

    I can imagine that getting confused with Guix (pronounced geeks)

    connaisseur ,

    Since I had to deal with some representatives of SUSE corp, I can say that the whole experience was just plain horrible. Don‘t like that company at all and thus am not surprised that the name change topic is even discussed at all.

    narc0tic_bird ,

    Doesn’t SUSE actively benefit from openSUSE development? I thought Tumbleweed and SLES had a similar relationship as Fedora and RHEL.

    mogoh ,

    Notice that “Fedora” does not have “Redhat” its name. Maybe the request is reasonable. I don’t know how many people think that thy don’t need SLES, because there is openSUSE.

    narc0tic_bird ,

    My comment was more about how SUSE benefits from openSUSE development (and vice-versa) and that Tumbleweed has a similar relationship to SLES as Fedora has to RHEL, as they are both upstream of their respective enterprise distributions.

    Besides, people don’t need SLES. Enterprises do because of the support they get. And I’d assume employees responsible for that kind of thing at such enterprises would know the difference.

    And the Red Hat logo is literally a fedora hat.

    If it’s just a name change done well, I couldn’t care less (although openSUSE is a very recognizable name and brand recognition would have to be reestablished). I just hope that this isn’t the beginning of something worse.

    pmk ,

    Fedora/Redhat is a good example. It could be argued that the Linux distro scene was different 23 years ago, making it harder to be seen today.

    The thing I’m pondering is what the openSUSE community actually is. Does it exist as a group, or is it separate projects, each doing their own thing… for who? What is the overlap between people in the various distros, overlap in technology used in packaging and QA etc? Is it meaningful to talk about openSUSE as a distinct community separate from SUSE?

    MyNameIsRichard ,
    @MyNameIsRichard@lemmy.ml avatar

    SUSE provide a lot of the infrastructure for openSUSE and base their enterprise Linux from factory.

    thehatfox ,
    @thehatfox@lemmy.world avatar

    Seems a pointless endeavour. The open and enterprise sides are so deeply linked, it makes sense that they share a brand.

    Separating them only weakens the broader SUSE ecosystem.

    llionesista ,
    @llionesista@fosstodon.org avatar

    @thehatfox @banazir
    Suse and Oracle already have an enterprise-level community project, OpenELA. This image explains very well in my opinion why SUSE is asking the openSUSE community to remove the SUSE name.

    pastermil ,

    I’m curious as to where they’re actually going with this. They got news, they got repo, but still nothing to run even after almost a year?

    frankgrimeszz ,

    LibreSUSE 😎

    GolfNovemberUniform ,
    @GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

    I’d love them to replace SUSE with SUS. Distrowatch click rate +500%

    Blaster_M ,

    I would that too

    Rozauhtuno ,
    @Rozauhtuno@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    amongSUSE

    pastermil ,

    SamongUSE

    fireshell ,
    @fireshell@lemmy.ml avatar

    openSUSE is already a brand, now the main thing is not to get lost.

    pmk ,

    When I hear openSUSE, I think of german engineering and resources from SUSE, with a history of innovating great infrastructure.
    With a new name, distanced from the SUSE part, I’ll probably feel more like if this is yet another random derivative created by a small group who might soon lose interest.

    Marmaduke ,

    Rename it to openSUS

    Evil_Shrubbery , (edited )

    Dont do things that aren’t necessary.
    The name is adequate, it performs it’s function, its there.

    Feels like consumerism, always “innovating” for the sake if being new and flashy.

    Oh, wait, SUSE said that? Weird.
    I guess if it’s a (kind of) must, tho that makes me weary of what’s SUSEs plan that they would benefit from this. It can’t be just stupid manager stuff, right? :D

    That said, I submit open-me-SUSSY for consideration.
    I believe most will assume correctly what the general idea for the logo would be, so no need to sketch it.

    JackbyDev ,

    openMeSussy

    Evil_Shrubbery ,

    sudo openMeSussy -F -Y

    sebsch ,

    ESUS OS?

    holgersson ,

    Just go the last step and call it Jesus OS

    agressivelyPassive ,

    Reboots after three days and then disappears in the cloud.

    floofloof ,

    JesOS

    walthervonstolzing ,
    @walthervonstolzing@lemmy.ml avatar

    BezOS … that’s Amazon Linux though.

    Grangle1 ,

    Temple OS returns!

    Grangle1 ,

    Temple OS returns!

    Zink ,

    GSUS

    dmalteseknight ,
    @dmalteseknight@programming.dev avatar

    Kind of reads like ASUS

    unknowing8343 ,

    ChameleonOS seems to be already taken… Maybe ReptileOS?

    WeAreAllOne ,

    David Icke will disagree!

    halm ,
    @halm@leminal.space avatar

    Just rename it jeSUSE, because nobody fucks with the jeSUSE.

    radivojevic ,

    Fuck jususe, and fuck Jesus. Also fuck OpenJeSUSE.

    datavoid ,

    I also enjoy a good edge

    halm ,
    @halm@leminal.space avatar

    There’s enough fucks to go around, for sure.

    mrvictory1 ,

    We already have JeOS

    rotopenguin ,
    @rotopenguin@infosec.pub avatar

    Eight years of long term support, dude.

    CyberSyndicalist ,
    @CyberSyndicalist@hexbear.net avatar

    call it SUES. SUSE won’t be able to complain since they are so hung up on it being pronounced SU-SAY.

    finley ,

    This is absurd

    woelkchen ,
    @woelkchen@lemmy.world avatar

    This is absurd

    Years ago, when there were talks about establishing an independent foundation, sane people already warned that relying on a trademark not owned by them is risky. That was batted away as a non-issue. Now here we are.

    KingThrillgore ,
    @KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml avatar

    AbsurdOS – the free enterprise operating system

    LeFantome ,

    OpenSUSE is not an enterprise operating system. This is probably why they want the rebrand.

    PotatoesFall ,

    The openSUSE website obly lists three variants, Leap, Tumbleweed and MicroOS. I don’t see the many confusing variabts that are mentioned in the article

    bsergay , (edited )
    PotatoesFall ,

    Thanks!

    Well I think that the atomic distros, especially desktops, have a big future, I hope openSUSE gets to keep working on those.

    I might try Kalpa actually. Seems like the openSUSE version of Fedora Kinoite?

    bsergay ,

    Thanks!

    It has been my pleasure.

    Well I think that the atomic distros, especially desktops, have a big future

    So do I. Though, I think they’ll have a big future across the board.

    I hope openSUSE gets to keep working on those.

    Yup, me too. I trust that at least openSUSE Aeon will thrive (through Richard Brown). And hopefully that will eventually result into a healthy ecosystem in which more ‘immutable’/atomic spins (with other desktop environments) will follow.

    I might try Kalpa actually. Seems like the openSUSE version of Fedora Kinoite?

    Technically, it’s indeed openSUSE’s take on an ‘immutable’/atomic distro with KDE Plasma. However, there’s a big difference in how much development it enjoins.

    • For Fedora Atomic, all the spins are equal~ish in regards to their development. Like, it’s not possible to point to a difference that goes beyond polish.
    • On the other hand, openSUSE Aeon is in RC3 while openSUSE Kalpa hasn’t left Alpha. This is not surprising when considering that multiple people work on openSUSE Aeon and only a single developer works on openSUSE Kalpa.

    There’s also a difference in how ‘immutability’/atomicity works on Fedora Atomic vs openSUSE MicroOS. Without even going over the implications thereof. But that’s out of scope for what’s intended for this comment.

    PotatoesFall ,

    awesome you seem knowledgable :P Can I bother you to share any resources on the differences between the atomicity between fedora and open suse? Search engines suck these days

    bsergay ,

    Can I bother you to share any resources on the differences between the atomicity between fedora and open suse?

    It’s genuinely hard to point towards an exhaustive source on the matter. Perhaps related to the fact that there are continuous advancements and developments going on that make it hard for something to not feel outdated very quickly. But, basically, Fedora Atomic heavily relies on OSTree/libostree for accomplishing its ‘immutability’/atomicity. While, on the other hand, openSUSE MicroOS utilizes Btrfs snapshots (primarily) instead. Some implications are:

    • Fedora Atomic is able to track changes. openSUSE MicroOS currently does not. Though, this feature is planned.
    • Fedora Atomic is (pretty) reproducible; even if after dozens of transactions one returns back to an earlier state without tracing back. This is possible through the use of layers instead of directly changing the base system. This is something Btrfs snapshots can’t do currently. Therefore, there’s nothing that indicates that openSUSE MicroOS is able to do the same. Though it can be reproducible in its own way.
    • Git-like features of OSTree/libostree allows branching (and other git-like features) when managing deployments. Concept of branching is alien for Btrfs Snapshots.
    • Fedora Atomic basically offers built-in factory reset. For openSUSE MictroOS, this is planned.
    • Like git, Fedora Atomic can rebase. In practice, this allows it to change drastically through a single reboot without actually reinstalling. This is used to rebase to a new major version (from Fedora 39 to Fedora 40), but even more impressive is to change from Silverblue (GNOME) to Kinoite (KDE Plasma) to Sway to Budgie etc. And all of this, without (most of) the cruft associated with these changes. Heck, you could even rebase to uBlue images or any others you fancy. This concept of rebasing is not found on openSUSE MicroOS.
    • In theory, Btrfs snapshots should be more flexible in regards to applying changes we may find on traditional distros. But, unfortunately, because Fedora Atomic is further along its development, we don’t actually notice this. (The upcoming update related to bootable containers for Fedora Atomic doesn’t make it any easier for openSUSE MicrOS to be more flexible anyways.)
    • The upcoming update related to bootable containers also allows Fedora Atomic to be (relatively) declarative and hence; less state. This concept is also currently absent on openSUSE MicroOS.

    Ongoing developments may alter the above list significantly. It’s even entirely possible that all features mentioned above will be found on both distros in the upcoming years. However, vision and scope are perhaps decisive when it comes to making any predictions regarding the future. We haven’t gone over those yet… Going over those is out of scope for what this comment intends :P .

    Search engines suck these days

    Can’t agree more.

    PotatoesFall ,

    thanks so much that was a fantastic explanation!

    bsergay ,

    It has been my pleasure!

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