There have been multiple accounts created with the sole purpose of posting advertisement posts or replies containing unsolicited advertising.

Accounts which solely post advertisements, or persistently post them may be terminated.

GNOME June 2024: C'mon you can do better

New GNOME dialog on the right:

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/8d6ae1b8-566f-4773-80b1-de00c22b782f.jpeg

Apple’s dialog:

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/62f4bf9d-b325-4941-98c9-c749445dd823.png

They say GNOME isn’t a copy of macOS but with time it has been getting really close. I don’t think this is a bad thing however they should just admit it and then put some real effort into cloning macOS instead of the crap they’re making right now.

Here’s the thing: Apple’s design you’ll find that they carefully included an extra margin between the “Don’t Save” and “Cancel” buttons. This avoid accidental clicks on the wrong button so that people don’t lose their work when they just want to click “Cancel”.

So much for the GNOME, vision and their expert usability team :P

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

Both designs are good imo. Adding the extra space for the “cancel” button could cause a copyright claim so I think that’s a viable reason why it’s absent in GNOME. And I don’t see anything wrong in copying Apple design. They can do what they want and the new design is very nice in terms of ease of understanding and accessibility potentials. GNOME’s workflow is similar to Apple’s so why not copy some more things for better consistency?

TCB13 OP ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

Both designs are good imo. Adding the extra space for the “cancel” button could cause a copyright claim

What ahaha since when a modal is copyrighted? I don’t buy it, this is simply poor design by the GNOME team.

GNOME’s workflow is similar to Apple’s so why not copy some more things for better consistency?

Exactly my point, but they should learn how to properly copy things. Or at least think about them, Apple didn’t add the margin for no reason.

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

I get it that you hate this design and its obvious strong inspiration by Apple but accusing GNOME team in being lazy is too much. They created the most popular and one of the most stable DEs on Linux and their own workflow that’s similar to Apple’s but still is unique. Also when I saw that new design, I was amazed. To me it looks really great. It’s going to be a good update with accent color support (I won’t fight about it ok?) for sure. It’s just a matter of preference. Both designs are good enough technically imo.

TCB13 OP ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

I get it that you hate this design

I don’t hate it, it looks better than what was there before, no doubts there, but at the same time they could’ve just made it better.

All the literature on action buttons with dangerous effects tells you to add margins, accents and shades. Any design undergraduate should be aware of this, however the GNOME team totally missed it.

It’s going to be a good update with accent color support (I won’t fight about it ok?)

It’s funny that you mention that because…

In macOS, you can specify an accent color to customize the appearance of your app’s buttons, selection highlighting, and sidebar glyphs. The system applies your accent color when the current value in General > Accent color preferences is multicolor. support.apple.com/en-mt/guide/mac-help/…/mac

I’m totally okay with “being inspired” (cloning) macOS, it should be viewed as good thing because Apple does spend a lot in UX research however lets make thing properly.

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

I don’t hate it, it looks better than what was there before, no doubts there, but at the same time they could’ve just made it better.

How? Improving something like this is hard. Do you have any proposals?

All the literature on action buttons with dangerous effects tells you to add margins, accents and shades. Any design undergraduate should be aware of this, however the GNOME team totally missed it.

I’m afraid to tell you that in 2024 nobody cares about that. “Shape following feeling” in MD is the best example I can think of. Now aesthetics is preferred to make people buy (or use for free in this case) the product. People are not tech savvy. They want good looks and GNOME nailed it imo. It’s stunning. They even got me but I do care about aesthetics unfortunately. I’m a spoilt mass consumer. Eject me if you will.

accent color

Accent color taboo. Let’s not talk about accent color.

TCB13 OP ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

How? Improving something like this is hard. Do you have any proposals?

I’ve submitted a fair share of UX in-depth analysis with examples and links to literature on the GNOME team blog and they tend to ignore / comment dismissingly and then remove my comments after a few weeks.

Accent color taboo. Let’s not talk about accent color.

Ahahaha

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

Judging from your post and replies, you look very aggressive, rude and demanding so no wonder the devs deleted your comments.

TCB13 OP ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

In-depth analysis ≠ random ramblings on lemmy.

bitfucker ,

To be fair, he could also just be fed up after a long time being ignored for what he thinks is quite an important design decision.

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

May be but some of this user’s post history is a bit questionable.

Shareni ,

the most popular

Citation very much needed

one of the most stable DEs on Linux

Hardly, but I’m guessing you’re thinking of reliability instead. Not really surprising when it’s so stripped down that vanilla GNOME is pretty much unusable. When you extend it, in order to get a proper DE, that goes right out the window.

That fact makes it especially funny that vanilla GNOME is by far the fattest DE around. How it manages to use up more resources than KDE is beyond me.

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

Citation very much needed

Ubuntu, RHEL and Fedora use it as the default and they are very big distros. Idk if it’s enough but that’s what I know.

Hardly, but I’m guessing you’re thinking of reliability instead.

Idk. KDE was unstable for me and it always has bugs after major releases. They should test things better.

Not really surprising when it’s so stripped down that vanilla GNOME is pretty much unusable.

Personal opinion.

That fact makes it especially funny that vanilla GNOME is by far the fattest DE around.

Deepin.

How it manages to use up more resources than KDE is beyond me.

You have a point here. Qt is better in terms of efficiency afaik and performance is extremely important for an OS component. But hey at least it’s getting better over time.

Shareni ,

Ubuntu, RHEL and Fedora use it as the default and they are very big distros. Idk if it’s enough but that’s what I know.

I mean, that’s pretty irrelevant. If you were for example at least comparing the downloads of fedora Vs spins, that would be a beginning of something.

Idk. KDE was unstable for me and it always has bugs after major releases. They should test things better.

  1. In case it wasn’t obvious: stability is not reliability
  2. So does GNOME, especially when you have a lot of extensions
  3. KDE is pretty crap in both regards

Personal opinion.

Is that why every distro comes with vanilla GNOME? Oh wait…

But hey at least it’s getting better over time.

Meanwhile over the years KDE got lighter than GNOME while constantly piling on features.

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

This is turning into a meaningless argument now. I don’t want to continue.

MrAlagos ,

How it manages to use up more resources than KDE is beyond me.

It can happen when you have to develop all your technology on your own instead of relying on the work of a hundred-million dollar company that does the heavy lifting for you.

possiblylinux127 ,

We shouldn’t design desktops to avoid copyright claims. Desktops should just create original designs that make sense for the goals of the desktop. We don’t need to make changes based on Windows 11 or Mac OS. They aren’t separate entirely and irrelevant.

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

Do you mean that any copying is bad or any copying is ok as long as it helps achieve the goals?

possiblylinux127 ,

When you copy the outcome is almost always going to be worse than the original. Do your own thing and be the person or project you want to be. You don’t need to care outside of the project.

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

This. But 99% of the internet will hate your project for absolutely anything they don’t like in it and it will kill the project because distros won’t want to use it.

Dariusmiles2123 ,

I’ve only spent a few hours on my wife’s MacBook Pro which was still running Catalina (now Fedora) back in the days, and I didn’t think Gnome and MacOs were so similar.

To be honest I felt a bit lost on MacOs Catalina and felt like everything was difficult compared to Gnome.

But I guess Gnome is taking a lot of inspiration from the MacOs aesthetic, and it’s okay with me because it looks great.

I don’t have a lot of experience with other DE on Linux, but they lack the clean aesthetic of Gnome.

TCB13 OP ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

To be honest I felt a bit lost on MacOs Catalina and felt like everything was difficult compared to Gnome.

Just because you aren’t used to the macOS workflow it doesn’t mean it is bad - that’s the same argument you GNOME fan boys do with Windows users ;)

But I guess Gnome is taking a lot of inspiration from the MacOs aesthetic, and it’s okay with me because it looks great.

Yes, it’s okay, and that was never an issue in this discussion. The issue is that they didn’t took enough inspiration on basic UX patterns.

Dariusmiles2123 ,

Well what I meant is that if Gnome was taking so much inspiration from MacOs, being a Gnome user, I wouldn’t have felt lost on MacOS.

I also don’t mind Gnome taking what’s great from every other OS, as it’d clearly be stupid not to if an idea is great.

I also think that people should be more open minded about what others are enjoying. I prefer Linux, but I can also understand that some people just want to have the most compatible OS with everything, aka Windows. Or the best ecosystem, aka Apple.

It is not my choice, and I’m trying to convince people to switch to something else, but just badmouthing their choice when it has objectively some advantages isn’t gonna help.

wolf ,

Wait - Gnome user here (heavily modified and with multiple extensions) …

macOS window management and trying to using it via keyboard is a totally miserable experience (forced to use it at work :-/ ) … at the same time, Apple thinks their users are smart enough to use tags, while Gnome developers think the user are too dump to use tags. I still happily prefer Gnome over macOS on my desktop for literally everything, macOS has no proper software management, all apps try to up-sell me on their shitty i-cloud offerings, setup cannot be properly automated, the ‘auto features’ totally suck and do everything I do not want them to do and macOS feels too slow for the hardware it runs on…

Gnome sucks, but it sucks less for me than all other alternatives on the desktop at the moment…

My biggest reason to stick with Gnome are Wayland, Evolution/Online Accounts and that I can automatically configure Gnome to something usable with dconf/gsettings. I am not holding my breath that KDE ever gets their KMail story under control, stability as in zero crashes and being fully configurable via Ansible. The very moment this happens, I’ll happily jump ship. (Of course also waiting for Wayland support for Xfce :-P)

TCB13 OP ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

Apple thinks their users are smart enough to use tags, while Gnome developers think the user are too dump to use tags

Isn’t this ironic? The DE with a user base that is way more tech savvy people thinks users can’t use tags.

macOS has no proper software management, all apps try to up-sell me on their shitty i-cloud offerings,

What are you talking about?? At least on macOS app icons are consistent not the crap they are on GNOME.

macOS (…) setup cannot be properly automated

This couldn’t be further from the truth. Apple makes automated setup even easier than it is on MS ecosystems, companies can literally buy a computer on the Apple Store and have it shipped to an employee with the companie’s profile pre-installed by Apple without even needing to touch or open the box. The employee get’s the computer, opens the box and just has to login with this corporate account.

You’ve Apple’s own MDM, Jamf, JumpCloud and so many others. Even Ansible can be used to configure, setup and automated macOS deployments.

macOS feels too slow for the hardware it runs on…

Well at least it doesn’t like a 5 second pointless fade animation after every single click like GNOME does, nor does it bundle web technologies for theming that make the DE be as slow as it can get when it comes to rendering a new window.

wolf ,

I wish the thing about tags was ironic

Concerning the rest of your points: Icons are one of the few things I never had an issue with in Gnome. ;-)

Concerning automated setups, the only system I care fore is Linux and am forced to use macOS. For my use cases, I don’t care about the tooling/possibilities for companies to install crap on my machine (my company does that). Using Ansible to automate my setup for macOS is theoretically possible, but such a crappy experience compared to Linux, that I don’t bother. Not to mention no unified installation/update system on macOS and the shitty default apps like Finder, Window management etc. The solution which sucks the least for me is using macOS as dump VPN driver for my virtual Linux box, so I can get shit done.

… no need to argue about bad Gnome defaults, it is trivial to disable all animations and the shell is fast enough even on my netbook. :-)

TCB13 OP ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

it is trivial to disable all animations

Yeah you can go into settings and toggle of a switch, however they don’t disable everything. ~

Whenever you go into Settings > Accessibility > Enable Animations and disable it one would expect that ALL animations would be disabled while in fact they aren’t. It should behave like Xfce that is, click on something and get the instant result, no delay, no very small animation / fade like GNOME still does.

Bottom line: that option in GNOME is misleading and doesn’t do what it advertises.

NOOBMASTER ,

Wtf… I like the layout of the old dialogue better. It is easier to read.

TCB13 OP ,
@TCB13@lemmy.world avatar

The older one is actually properly executed, the first button is the “Cancel” one and that makes sense because people read from left to right and tend to click mindlessly / without reading on the first button. Not sure if they actually changed the position on right to left languages but they should have…

Krafting ,
@Krafting@lemmy.world avatar

I actually like it, margin is maybe a bit much. For the apple extra margin, gnome app can add any buttons they want on those dialog, it is up to app devs to add an extra margin between some button!

dayna ,

Looks nice to me. Basing design decisions on contrarianism is silly. If you don’t like it that’s alright. Disliking it because it looks like something else that also looks good is silly.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • [email protected]
  • random
  • lifeLocal
  • goranko
  • All magazines