Linux will never be anywhere close to plug and play for anything in the way Windows is, whether we’re talking games, applications, AD, etc… At least not for a very, very long time. Windows has about 40 years of development and is tried and true by the masses worldwide. You don’t have to be a master level 1337 h4xor to do anything in Windows, while you can’t do about 70% of what you can do on Windows with Linux without being an advanced power user.
Linux is great for some stuff, but unless there’s massive upgrades to where you can just hit “install” and something installs and works without fucking around in terminal, it will never see widespread adoption. Hell, half of my users can’t even figure out how to use a goddamn Mac, and that’s much more user friendly than any Linux kernel. You guys are delusional if you think otherwise.
Also, I’ve yet to see a single Linux kernel that is aesthetically pleasing on anywhere near the level of OSX or Windows 11… Or Windows 10… Or hell, 7, 8, and Vista lmao. Looks like a potato OS that was mocked up for some shitty low budget SyFy channel movie. Every single kernel I’ve ever seen. Even the ones that supposedly are “so nice looking bro I swear it looks better than 11 bro please why isn’t anyone switching to Linux don’t you guys want to learn a programming language to play games seriously bro it’s so easy it just works bro broooo.”
Dude I fucking hate those Linux ubernerds, and think that “looks shitty” is almost a Hallmark of your classic Linux application, but… you have no idea what you’re talking about. (…Also I don’t think you know what a “kernel” is.)
“40 year head start” is one hell of a fallacy. As if MS and Apple from 1983 are meaningfully related (in this sense) to what they are and do now.
The fundamental difference, anyway, is cross-platform compatibility. What percent of Linux users even use desktop office suites and shit like that? The desktop world has been moving to the browser for 15+ years and both Chrome and Firefox are practically identical on every OS.
Linux has a long way to go, but the stuff you were listing is madness.
I’ve yet to see a single Linux kernel that is aesthetically pleasing on anywhere near the level of OSX or Windows 11… Or Windows 10… Or hell, 7, 8, and Vista lmao.
The fact that you’re using the terms “kernel” and “aesthetically pleasing” in the same sentence (and equating that to GNU/Linux “Proper”) leads me to believe that you don’t understand what a kernel is. Or really know what you’re talking about, for that matter…
Agreed completely. After a fresh Windows 10 installation, and installing most recent drivers, I was able to download and play my Itch.io games after about an hour, hour and a half maybe. In Linux I have to make sure I get a properly performing or game optimized version of Arch, install Nvidia drivers, hope Optimus or whatever the internal/dedicated video card switcher is called now, install Lutris, hope the Lutris install script functions, install Steam, install Proton Glorious Eggroll version, enable Linux Proton beta and move GE to it, install Borderlands 2 and research why I’m getting 13-15 frames per second, do that for about a week, and then reinstall Windows. The above also is true for getting Pipewire and Wayland working for sound with my audio input device and lament that I didn’t get hardware that was tested beforehand to work with in-kernel drivers. Then find someone’s Github to install an interface because Pipewire broke itself or isn’t picking up my mic or broke itself with Discord.
Well I tried Ubuntu and Debian in the past, but according to testing that Photonic did, Arch was doing a lot better as far as gaming performance. It was a fun system to use, just could not get music or gaming working smoothly.
None of those are gaming related distros. There's Nobara, PopOS, Garuda, and many others that come with a bunch of gaming ready pre installed packages. Debian is like super stable, but it is that because it uses super old packages, which isn't ideal for gaming and Ubuntu is Debian based with similar issues, on top of its own issues. Arch is literally just the basic OS, that's what it is supposed to be. Installing Arch and then complaining that you have to manually install all those packages is just stupid because that's (more or less) the whole point of this distro. To have a very base line operating system without bloat. Not that it is that much of a task to install them, but yeah, it's obviously not something for some Windows bro who needs help installing a browser. If you cannot troubleshoot under Windows, then you'll not be able to troubleshoot under Linux, that much is for sure.
I don’t use a game optimised version of arch, I also use NVIDIA hardware, and I have no problems. I run a single monitor and have no need for Wayland at this point in time. X11 just works.
However, I game on desktops. My laptop is for work and that runs an Intel iGPU. It also runs Linux, without problems.
Just use nobara. Arch isn’t really for casual users who haven’t used Linux. Download steam and enable steam play for all titles in your settings. Proton ge isn’t necessarily always needed, but if you want it just download protonup-qt to easily install it. Use lutris for non-steam games, and optionally heroic games launcher instead of lutris for epic games. You make Linux sound complicated by separating every little step, as if multiple of those aren’t windows things too…
After a fresh nobara installation, and installing most recent drivers, I was able to download and play my steam games in an hour, hour and a half maybe. On windows I have to run a debloat script to optimize performance, make sure drivers are up to date, download the steam installer, click through the installer, download my game, then look up why random windows background services are randomly taking up CPU space. On Linux I just open discover, download steam, enable steam play for all titles, then download and play my games without any preinstalled apps and unnecessarily resource hogging background services.
while you can’t do about 70% of what you can do on Windows with Linux without being an advanced power user.
You clearly have no idea of what you're talking about.
Also, I’ve yet to see a single Linux kernel that is aesthetically pleasing on anywhere near the level of OSX or Windows 11… Or Windows 10… Or hell, 7, 8, and Vista lmao.
You also clearly have no idea what the fuck a kernel is.
What?? Are you criticizing the kernel (which you can but with actual arguments) or the esthetics of the UI which has absolutely nothing to do with the kernel? You don’t seem to understand what is a kernel
Linux is great for some stuff, but unless there’s massive upgrades to where you can just hit “install” and something installs and works without fucking around in terminal
You don’t even know what a kernel is, and I doubt you’ve seen any modern desktop environments. There’s nothing wrong with linux, there’s not development that needs to be done to fix it, the vast majority of issues I experienced were just a few windows apps or games not having good linux support. This isn’t a fault of linux, it’s the fault of the developers behind those apps and games. Also when I want to install something on Linux, I simply open discover and search for it then install. Anything not easily found in discover is most likely for more tech savvy power users anyways
Dunno how helpful this is but when I’ve had this problem in the past it was an IP conflict. Are you setting static IPs or are you using DHCP reserves for everything?
I’d love to switch to Linux. I’ve used Linux off and on for almost two decades now. At one point I was triple booting Windows XP, Windows 7, and Fedora. The one thing holding me back is, strangely enough, game compatibility. I know Proton has made huge strides as I’ve seen it first hand on the Steam Deck, a lovely little machine. The problem is, I have a huge library, and while I’m okay with slightly less than ideal performance here and there on the Deck (40hz mode anyone?), I absolutely refuse to lose any performance due to running Linux. Benchmarks still show some titles losing 5-15% performance when running through Proton.
Don’t get me wrong. I love FOSS. I donate and try to spread the word as much as I can when I find a passion project, and find it particularly useful. Even though this may seem to go against what I previously said, I’m debating on switching to Linux when Windows 10 loses support. I do not want to enable fTPM on my motherboard or update my BIOS if I don’t have to. My PC is stable, no thank you. I feel like I’ll have to troubleshoot whether I choose Linux or Windows 11. Ugh.
You haven’t tried it recently. Every game I play works flawlessly and is just as good or you can’t tell vs windows. I’ve been back and forth for 20 years and now I’m 100% and have been since February. I love it, and I’m happy to have my OS be my OS and do what I want it to do.
Now, to be somewhat fair, I built my new PC with the plan to go Linux. I went team red and a single ultra wide monitor. I wasn’t sure about the single monitor at all at first but now, man I love it. I have it setup so when I hit the windows key I can pick a new desktop. The only thing I can’t do is watch video’s while I play games and it doesn’t bother me at all.
Seriously though, outside of work I kicked windows out of my house in 2020 and haven’t needed to go back. To be fair, my job doesn’t have any software requirements that would tether me to windows, but the gaming performance this year has been nearly flawless for the majority of my library, beyond anticheat some games actually run better on linux when you consider the reduced overhead in a lighter distro
God forbids you ever have to run a game with two or three frames per second less than on Windows. The horror! /s
Joking aside, DRM is the actual roadblock. And it’s not even Linux’s fault. Just stubbornness and lack of will from developers. Even then, it’s just a handful of AAA online games. For some, like me, it has zero effect in my enjoyment of games as I don’t play online competitive games. Every other piece in my library actually runs better on Linux no matter how old it is. As Wine/Proton holds a better backwards compatibility than windows 10. Games that no longer run on windows still run on a modern fully specced Linux. No hassle involved. And some modern games actually run as fast or better than on windows nowadays.
Very interesting perspective. It’s almost arguable that you may be better off keeping a legacy Windows 10 machine and adding a new Linux-based machine for new titles. At this point, most games pretty much just work from my experience…
Benchmarks also highlight a number of titles actually performing better under Linux than native Windows, especially where Vulkan is concerned. My gaming performance under Linux is fantastic, the advancements in the last five years alone have been astounding.
I like Linux a lot, but saying you can’t understand why someone would run Windows on a server just shows a lack of knowledge. Linux is great in a lot of server applications in the application realm. However, it doesn’t get close to the power of Active Directory and Group Policy for Windows device management. Besides that, a lot of people are more comfortable with a UI for managing DHCP, DNA, etc in a SMB environment. Even if they prefer a command line for those tools PowerShell allows those people to coexist with those that prefer a GUI. Under certain circumstances, (mainly ones where a business is forgoing AD for AAD), Linux can be the right choice. Pretending that there’s no place for Windows Server, though, is asinine.
Yeah, and Linux still doesn’t have a good answer to AD for managing suites of end user machines. Linux has a lot going for it - but windows isn’t strictly inferior or anything.
Honestly, the entire AD suite with auth and everything else built in is genuinely a good product. And if what you want is supported by Microsoft, their other services are decent as well.
Every time someone mentions that Linux has no alternative to AD, someone mentions an alternative.
But somehow it’s a different one that’s mentioned every time.
Notice how you’re ignoring the machine management and selectively choosing to focus on the user management. User management might be fine with Linux, but machine management can’t compete with GPOs, especially for managing Windows clients, which is what businesses are using for workstations whether we like it or not.
The main problem are companies forcing windows servers and technologies when they are not the good ones for the task.
If one needs to set up desktops for accounting, windows is fine. But I saw companies setting shared NFS drives used by Linux severs on windows machines! Not joking!
I know companies that even deploy kubernetes clusters on windows servers!
Just because finding cheap windows engineers is easy, everyone has had an experience on windows to put on a cv. Than some of that cheap labor go up the hierarchy as head of a random infrastructure team because all good sys engineers moved to manage linux servers after some time, he recruits people like-minded, and in few years you ends up with a team refusing to do the right thing because “we know windows and windows can do the same as Linux and Microsoft is good for governance and Linux bad”. Execs don’t understand the difference and force architecture to go along because they don’t believe it’s worthy to rebuild a team, we are anyway using windows for accounting and execs laptops, it can’t be that bad! Even accenture and mckinsey consultants us it! And they told us that wls2 is the holy grail
Corporate IT is the peak of suboptimal tools for the job because politics and money
This community is very much a “Windows bad” community. I personally find that annoying as I use Windows and Linux. Both have their pros and cons. Windows though is seen here as the shitest OS out there which far from the truth.
PowerShell is amazing and I install it on my Linux desktop.
We use both. Its not my department but i know the server guys are using windows for some servers and linux for others and the decision is normally made based on which is going to be best for the specific needs of the function of that server.
Pretending one is outright better than the other is childish. Just use whats best at the time.
Isn't the CPU support reason solely specific to a new feature Windows 11 was going to use, and you can just use Windows 10 while it's still in support? Plus Windows 10 knows this and won't even try to update your PC to windows 11?
It's not a really strong argument when most hardware drivers are made with Windows in mind first, and maybe someone is going to write up a Linux driver if they're interested. I mean Linux went for years having to do some hack&slash solution to broadcom drivers until they were finally added in. That affected at least 2 laptops in my lifetime.
I will stop to say that currently, I think Linux is in a good spot. But you can't just pretend the issue absolutely doesn't exist because your specific setup works.
I don’t think people are pretending Linux is perfect. More people than expected though, are simping for windows despite the fact that the money and energy spent on it truly ought to have led to a better product than what we got.
Oh no, I believe no one is under any delusions that Linux is a perfect OS that does everything well and has no issues (well, beyond a few nutcases). It’s just that on Linux you CAN solve issues, you CAN find causes, you CAN solve things, and in general once it works, it just keeps working indefinitely. Compare this to windows, which has new mysterious shit frequently, that breaks in unfixable ways to the point that even now the standard troubleshooting procedure is still the three Rs: Reboot, Reinstall, Reformat, and which frequently pulls the rug on you related to support of both hardware and software, all the while being full of telemetry and ads.
Agreed! I was talking to someone last night about revitalizing their laptop with Linux and they asked me how much RAM they needed. I checked my pop os machine ram usage with no apps running, just under 4 GB. Then checked windows 10 after closing like 10 autoloading programs. 9 GB. Windows is bloated af. It’s honestly a miracle it runs.
In the last five years, I’ve run Linux across a vast range of differing hardware, and I’ve encountered no more issues regarding driver support than I have under Windows.
I simply attach the hardware, and it works. At most I installed NVIDIA drivers via my package manager, which was simple and painless; or I downloaded the drivers as .Deb’s for my Brother printer and installed them quickly and easily using the supplied script.
I’m sure I’m not the only one with such experience.
That just means you didn't use the hardware that had the issues. Which is entirely possible given the nature of hardware issues. It happens all the time on Windows as well.
-l Make bash act as if it had been invoked as a login shell (see INVOCATION below).
--login Equivalent to -l.
This is an excerpt from the bash manpage. So likely no, this isn’t a bad thing and this is just GNOME sourcing your environment variables. You need to tell us how frequent these notification are and when they happen (also what GNOME version you’re using as well as which distribution you are using). We can’t help you if you don’t provide that.
Then likely you can ignore it, or configure GNOME notifications to not display it to you. You could also seek help in NixOS related forums or continue trying to replicate the issue.
For all the praise I give Debian, I still just run Kubuntu and call it a day.
It’s not that Debian’s particularly hard to install or set up (pretty quick and easy after you’ve done it enough times, though there is also the Live CD with Calamares for an easier install), and it’s honestly better than (*)Ubuntu in terms of official repos (at least Sid is), but I sometimes just find it simpler to install Kubuntu, unsnap it, remove apport, and get on with everything else.
Maybe I’ll go MX or something at some point and just enable systemd because I use it and out of the “anti-systemd” distros, it’s the most “hey, if you want to use systemd, no prob”.
Actually, for Debian, another good option is Spiral Linux. It’s basically just Debian, but with btrfs, snapshots, and zRAM all set up (from the same dude who does GeckoLinux, so very familiar with btrfs). Maybe once the new Bookworm-based ISO is up, I’ll switch over.
It can definitely feel overwhelming, so start simple. Install a basic well known distro; I'm partial to Fedora, but Ubuntu is also a great choice. You'll learn a ton just by using it day in and out for typical tasks. If you need help reach out to the community. If anyone comes off as rude I recommend just ignoring and blocking them. Using it will eventually come to feel second nature like MacOS or Windows. Enjoy!
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