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NCSoft president: "The games industry's evolution towards acceptance and diversity is ongoing"

From the article:

“Play is an integral part of human evolution and learning,” she says, mentioning that this is a topic she covers in her book. “Gaming, being the most refined form of play in our time, has much to offer. Instead of focusing on what gaming is not, it’s more effective to showcase its true essence. The industry’s effort to create a more diverse range of games, beyond merely violent and intense ones, will help showcase the broad spectrum of gaming as an expression of creativity.”

_sideffect ,

I’m all for inclusion of everyone and others being treated fairly.

What I’m not for is how it’s being implemented in the industry currently.

It’s an inclusion for me, exclusion for thee, motto, and it’s ruining some games.

cheers_queers ,

please elaborate. because from what I’m seeing, people are outraged over just having more character creation options or more variety of characters. i can’t see how that’s exclusion.

_sideffect ,

Many companies have been hiring only Dei candidates and excluding white people completely.

Black girl gamers is one An ex employee said it themselves.

Many others follow the same.

DarkThoughts ,

The elusive Nazi on Lemmy. How funny.
I can't fathom how fragile your self identity as "white man" must be, if the inclusion of non white people and women in video games is somehow this upsetting to you. I bet you're one of those people who cry about wokeism on the Steam forums.

_sideffect ,

You’re sick in the head if you’re calling me a nazi.

Get help.

DarkThoughts ,

You're the one crying about & spreading white genocide propaganda, which is a Nazi conspiracy theory. That makes you a Nazi.

Carighan OP ,
@Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

How so? As in, who is being excluded and how so?

TheDemonBuer ,
@TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world avatar

I think greater access to game development tools has been a very good thing for the industry. These days, I’m generally much more interested in what’s coming from indie developers than any of the big companies, with a few exceptions. I think that’s the best way to increase the diversity of games and game developers. Greater access to game development resources will help to democratize the gaming industry.

BombOmOm ,
@BombOmOm@lemmy.world avatar

Yep, the vast majority of the games I buy at this point are coming from indies.

The main issue is large studios want to make a safe game that does everything and appeals to everyone. Meanwhile, indies are making games that are fun-first and targeted at specific audiences, rather than just the mean.

Games like Factorio could be made by a big studio, but it wasn’t, because it don’t have mass appeal. Meanwhile, if you are in it’s target audience, it is a 10/10 game. And it isn’t like the studio had to shovel $200m into a pit to make this 10/10 game.

Aielman15 ,
@Aielman15@lemmy.world avatar

I feel the problem is not the industry but the fanbase. As of the last few years, it’s become pretty common to see videogames become target of hatred for “going woke”: H:FW’s Aloy’s “peach fuzz”, TLOU2’s Abby being too masculine, women not living to the average beauty standard, LGBT characters “shoved down people’s throats”, character editors decoupling gender and sex or using gender-neutral language, narrative being cringe because it targets millennials (as if older games didn’t target young audiences, too)… The industry is going forward, but I don’t think the fanbase is ready yet.

Sometimes I think the fanbase is regressing, even. I’ve seen people lamenting increased “politics” in their videogame, yet saying that MGS or FFVII or Bioshock are their favourite games. Gamers don’t even pay attention to what they consume, they merely parrot whatever their favourite influencer says. “Woke” is a meaningless term that gets thrown around whenever they don’t like something.

huginn ,

Fan base isn’t regressing - there’s just an increasingly polarized contingent that won’t stop wailing about every snub.

Overall the gaming fan base is growing because of this embracing of diversity.

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah it’s just a loud group of dipshits that want games to be a safe space for their regressive views.

Renacles ,

They can’t go 3 words without saying “woke”.

Wokewokewokewokewoke…

bobotron ,

Ding ding ding

billiam0202 , (edited )

The Helldivers 2 Steam review page (edit: it’s comments on announcements) is covered with reviews from accounts that don’t even own the game begging Arrowhead to “not add WOKENESS!” to the game.

huginn ,

What review page are you talking about??

I went to check out the reviews and all I see is people complaining about Sony blocking out so many countries. I don’t see a single “woke” complaint.

Are you sure you’re not just hearing that people have complained and then assuming they actually did?

billiam0202 ,

Sorry, you’re correct- it’s not the reviews, but the comments on any announcement made by the devs that I was remembering.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/cf7b312e-db8e-4727-b440-7d9aa66d2b49.png

The lack of mouse icon next to their names means those Steam accounts don’t own the game.

huginn ,

I wonder how many of them are just bots tbh

Cause the game is pretty inherently political. The setting is a farcical fascist govt…

ZeroHora ,
@ZeroHora@lemmy.ml avatar

How they can review a game without own it on steam?

DarkThoughts ,

I'm guessing they buy, review, refund? Not sure if that also removes the review as I almost never refund or review games.

billiam0202 ,

I edited my comment, but I was wrong in that it’s not the review page that gets swarmed but the comments on announcements that Arrowhead makes. Anyone can comment on an announcement (which makes sense, if [for example] it’s about an upcoming feature that isn’t out yet.)

ZeroHora ,
@ZeroHora@lemmy.ml avatar

I see, steam community foruns.

It’s better to not go into these, full of fanboys, haters and stupid people farming fake points.

Snowflake ,

People just want to play a game. Not have to go from a normal non sexualized zombie game to a now weirdly sexualized zombie game. And then they were made to be the bad guy for not wanting to play the game. If I don’t want to watch a LGB kind of movie that’s no problem because I’m not LGBT but when it comes to games I’m homophobic for not wanting to participate.

The problem is the industry thinks the fans owes it to them to play their shitty based game. We don’t have to play if we don’t want to. And it doesn’t make us non inclusive for not.

Katana314 ,

This same person will claim that Dead Rising, a series that’s had hot twin sisters battle you with katanas, is not sexualized.

Snowflake ,

That has to be copium. If I don’t want to play the game then I don’t have to lmao be mad. Idc if hot twin sisters battle me with katanas if you do then… Don’t play?

Carighan OP ,
@Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

I think you missed the point of the person you replied to.

Snowflake ,

No I didn’t but keep thinking.

Carighan OP ,
@Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

No you did, keep thinking.

Snowflake ,

So explain how? Otherwise it’s just ad hominem. I mean if two twin Butler shirtless 6 pack men or woman attacked me in some game with katanas that’s sexualized? I’m sorry but how horny are you? I don’t think that’s sexualizing I think thats time for me to play the game and defeat them like???

DarkThoughts ,

but when it comes to games I'm homophobic for not wanting to participate.

No, you're a bigot for publicly crying about it on end instead of just not buying it. No one would give a shit about you for you not buying a game. It's when you go to the forums and start crying woke.

Snowflake ,

I have not cried woke. In fact nobody cries about the wokeness or whatever bullshit they dislike in games. It’s actually quite the opposite. Where posts like this cry about people for not wanting to participate. It’s fine for me to have and even state my opinion that I’m not gay so I don’t want to play a game advertised as being a gay kind of game lmao. Especially on a post like this. If you truly didn’t give a shit then… You wouldn’t give a shit. Why respond here?

DarkThoughts ,

In fact nobody cries about the wokeness or whatever bullshit they dislike in games. It's actually quite the opposite.

lol

If you truly didn't give a shit then... You wouldn't give a shit. Why respond here?

Oh no... Are you offended that I'm not tolerating your intolerance? I'm so not sorry.

Snowflake ,

I tolerate just fine. I just don’t partake. Cry about it.

DarkThoughts ,

Gotta love the "NO U!!1" replies from you. I guess I really hit the nail on the head here.

Snowflake ,

Sure did. You hit that nail!

unautrenom ,

I feel like that’s just a very loud minority among those who play games. As you’ve so stated, the majority of people who play these games either do not care for politics in video games, and another subset prefer it that way.

If even the greediest of companies in the video game industry keep doing that, that means they’ve analyzed the market and having politics in video games might have between no to a positive impact on sales.

ImpressiveEssay ,

‘Going woke,’ is referring to intent.

Are you meeting quotes or actually engaging with race on a substantiative level.

It’s undoubtable that a lot of race casting in recent times has been to appease audiences rather than and honest engagement with reality and irl race relations.

Intent… it matters.

wccrawford ,

Intent does matter.

But the vast majority of complaints about a game being “woke” are just the inclusion of a character this a minority in some way. The complaint isn’t about how they’re included, just that they are, usually as a main or highly visible character.

ImpressiveEssay ,

I disagree… of course in countries like America you would have some outspoken actual racist n shit…

But the vast majority of people just don’t like casting for castings sake…

Nobody bitches about sigourney weaver in alien… nobody bitches about Denzel playing leading roles cos he’s black, calling it 'woke. ’

Why don’t people call that woke?

Because its obvious. When a project is hiring just to fill a quota, often…it is extremely obvious.

The vast vast vast majority of people don’t care what race, gender,sexuality you are, just as long as those things werent being taken into account when trying to get a job.

Yaknow… basic equal human rights stuff.

ampersandrew ,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

So if that’s all it’s about, why is there so much complaining about the race or gender of fictional characters in a video game?

ImpressiveEssay ,

I would imagine a whole myriad of different reasons, some rational and logical and some bigoted and dunse.

And not to mention, I have seen many many many comments upset about race focused casting (over talent, ability, suitability to the role etc) and then people ask 'why are you complaining about race of gender of a fictional character."

So… they think they commentor is being racist because they actually engage with the subject.

DarkThoughts ,

Why don't people call that woke?

Because this whole woke bullshit is a recent gamergate thing of the past decade or so, especially after US politics became even nuttier and "conservatives" completely started to lose their plot.

And please. Just go into the Steam forums of a game that has for example a poc woman as main character, or uses body type A & B instead of "male" & "female". There's literally countless of examples of people completely losing their shit over games, movies and shows over the recent years. Hell, even in this very comment section here we see people who think they as a white man are apparently underrepresented nowadays.

LouNeko ,

I disagree. The rule is “sex sells”, always has, always will be, period.

The people that complain about “wokeness” in games are a small but loud minority. The majority doesn’t care, hells seeing the steam achievements for some games the majority doesn’t even care to finish a game past the tutorial yet alone care about story or characters.

The problem is the approach to game design has changed. In the earlier stages of gaming, you would take a fun concept (finding perfect fits for boxes) and make it into a game (Tetris), that was all there was, Super Mario was literally called “Jump & Run Man” at one point. It was the essence of fun presented in a replayable form. Now games have to have a story, morals, relatable characters or some sort of overlaying message. This together with good gameplay can create a very good game no doubt. But each aspect has to be good on its own.
Take away the story from Last of Us and it’s essentially a 3rd person arena shooter, but it’s a good one at that. This alone would be a good selling point, add on top the story and you have an objectively good game.
But take Saint Row 5 as an example, take away the story and it’s a less than mediocre 3rd Person sandbox game, the fact that the story isn’t compelling either makes it objectively bad.
Rember the Hot/Crazy scale from His I Met Your Mother? Well there is also a Hot/Boring scale for games. If your game is boring it has to compensate by having hotter characters, if it’s fun it can get away with uglier ones. I can name countless examples where this is true.

Studios often overlook this connection. I’m all for diversification of the actual development environment but not the games themselves. It should always be fun first.
Never in my life have I heard anybody say “Are you going to get new game …? I’ve heard you can play as a black woman in this one. So cool.”
Studios then get upset because their model “Here diversity. Where money?” isn’t paying off.
It’s like not wanting to buy a cheaply made plastic valve for a boiler over a solid metal one and the company asks “Why are you not buying it? We made it blue.”

The fanbase is never going to change, because at some point we all realize that we want value for our money and often times studios spend so much time and effort making a game diverse, they forget to make it fun.

Carighan OP ,
@Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

Never in my life have I heard anybody say “Are you going to get new game …? I’ve heard you can play as a black woman in this one. So cool.”

Hrm, anecdotally I have quite a lot of formerly non-gamer friends who were really hyped for say, Life is Strange: True Colors, specifically because they were excited about how Alex breaks some beauty norms and gets to flirt with Steph on top of that.

Of course, anecdotally.

But it’s important to keep in mind that we’re no longer an industry of 5 teams creating 20 games a year. There’s so many games that there is more than enough space for every game. From absolutely purist near-identityless gameplay-only designs (Which exist in droves) to huge mass-market hyper-produced open worlds all the way to purist story/feels only visual novels and experimental art pieces.

And each of these categories has more games each year than the entire market around the Gameboy time had. Gaming is insanely big now.

Nutteman ,
@Nutteman@lemmy.world avatar

You’re blaming games not being fun on devs “wasting time” to ensure diversity in their games? You realize the people who work on the story and characters aren’t the same as the ones coding the game mechanics right? The two have almost nothing to do with one another. Studios aren’t forgetting to make games fun due to diversity lmao. They are having to spend a lot more man hours than they did in the past because of the advancements in development tenchology.

ampersandrew ,
@ampersandrew@lemmy.world avatar

Never in my life have I heard anybody say “Are you going to get new game …? I’ve heard you can play as a black woman in this one. So cool.”

I have. It was more along the lines of, “Dragon Ball FighterZ has no waifus” or “there’s no one with any melanin in this game [until they found out about Nagoriyuki in Guilty Gear Strive]”. I would not be the least bit surprised if Street Fighter 6 is more popular with women than any previous entry after taking the bad male characters from previous entries and remixing them as women (Manon, Lily, A.K.I., Kimberly).

Katana314 ,

I definitely play a few horny games, and don’t recommend them to anyone. In the other hand, I have actually skipped certain games, and hated some others, because they were trying to tell an engaging story and got hung up on cringey sexualization of their female leads.

As you said, it’s all up to consumer preference. It isn’t just watch-dogging and shaming of sexualization, it’s also that there’s a lot of people that find lazy sexualization to be disengaging and hardly unique. Plenty of the time getting the characters to look unique and interesting is also a challenge; and diversity often helps with that.

KingThrillgore ,
@KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml avatar

No, the fanbase is regressing, but they’re also not getting products that suit their tastes. There’s a lot of stuff to play that’s different, and the people that removed go back to the dwindingly bad quality AAA Live Service slop. They’re not for us. When the AAA bubble bursts, they’ll fuck off to another form of media.

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